General Betting
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Sorry about this I'm sure its been done to death but I am approaching having to pay this for the first time. Is it correct in summary to think I'm basically going to be hit for 20% commission on any week I win? I dont really understand this implied commission thing, will that make it any lower than 20?
I've made quite a lot as things are but cant see I can take a 20% hit, do people manage to survive this? I guess go back to the other exchanges/bookies as much as you can is the only answer.
I've made quite a lot as things are but cant see I can take a 20% hit, do people manage to survive this? I guess go back to the other exchanges/bookies as much as you can is the only answer.
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Presuming this is your first username that is good going.
Robrefedelona 17 Dec 13:42
I guess go back to the other exchanges/bookies as much as you can is the only answer.
If you bet IR from home where can you go ? :(
I guess go back to the other exchanges/bookies as much as you can is the only answer.
If you bet IR from home where can you go ? :(
The implied commission thing will actually make you pay more than 20 % in the weeks you are paying. It will be anything from 20 - 26 % depending on your commission rate , strike rate and number of markets that week.
If you have used up your £1K allowance introduce system style betting to your portfolio and get your commission rate over the 20%. eg, put £500 on every premiership game to draw...some weeks you will win, some weeks you will lose but in reality you should be better off in the long run as you will avoid paying 20% on all your winnings.
20-26%!! How does that work. Sorry I really dont get this!
Sorry to be a pain but could someone give me an example please. So if I win 5k for a week and pay 2% commisiion, how does the implied commission thingy work and what would I expect to pay as a charge?
Thanks if you can help!
Sorry to be a pain but could someone give me an example please. So if I win 5k for a week and pay 2% commisiion, how does the implied commission thingy work and what would I expect to pay as a charge?
Thanks if you can help!
depends how you win the 5k! i.e. is it by winning 5k with no losers or winning 5k by having 100k winnings and 95k losers.
Ok so if I win by saying winning 5 lots of 5 = 25 and losing 4 lots of 5 =-20.
If that was an average week what would that mean. Are you saying higher volume higher charge or the other way round?
Ta again!
If that was an average week what would that mean. Are you saying higher volume higher charge or the other way round?
Ta again!
somthing like....
you'll pay 500 comm on the 25k winnings (assumning you're on 2%)
you'll have 600 implied comm (3%) on 20k loses
divide total (1100) by 2 giving 550 comm generated
20% of your 5k winnings is 1000 less the 550 comm generated gives a PC of 450.
you'll pay 500 comm on the 25k winnings (assumning you're on 2%)
you'll have 600 implied comm (3%) on 20k loses
divide total (1100) by 2 giving 550 comm generated
20% of your 5k winnings is 1000 less the 550 comm generated gives a PC of 450.
Oh ok, its starting to become a bit clearer, thanks. I'd read the blurb about it in the rules and regs but I'm a bit thick and the implied commission was beyond me. So its implied on the losses I make .
Well 450 in this example is less than 10% which doesnt sound so bad.
Still mystified why this exists. Why dont they just charge everyone at 5% and ditch the discount factor instead?
Anyway thanks for your help!
Well 450 in this example is less than 10% which doesnt sound so bad.
Still mystified why this exists. Why dont they just charge everyone at 5% and ditch the discount factor instead?
Anyway thanks for your help!
I'll try to explain.
I order to calculate your PC for the week and this is assuming one is liable for the charge and the allowance is gone.
1 : You will have to add together all you markets winnings before commission for the whole week .
2 : You then add together all your market losses for the week.
3 : Then you subtract the week's loss amount from the week's winning amount. That will give you your Gross Profit for the week.
4 : Then you add together all the commission you have paid for the week. If you have been on the same commission rate all week it will be that % of the sum you get from number 1.
5 : Then you calculate your implied commission. Your implied commission will be 3 % of the sum you get from number 2.
6 To calculate your commission generated which is what Betfair use for PC purpose , you now add together your commission paid ( the sum from 4 ) with your implied commission ( the sum from 5 ).
You then divide this number by 2 and voila .. you do now have your commission generated number.
7 : You now take your Gross Profit for the week ( the sum from 3 ) and divede this by 5. The number you get now is the minimum amount you will have to have as commission generated if you are to avoid paying PC for the week.
If your commission generated sum is lower than the sum you get when you divide your Gross Profit by 5 , you will have to pay the difference in tax to Betfair and this tax is called Premium Charge.
I order to calculate your PC for the week and this is assuming one is liable for the charge and the allowance is gone.
1 : You will have to add together all you markets winnings before commission for the whole week .
2 : You then add together all your market losses for the week.
3 : Then you subtract the week's loss amount from the week's winning amount. That will give you your Gross Profit for the week.
4 : Then you add together all the commission you have paid for the week. If you have been on the same commission rate all week it will be that % of the sum you get from number 1.
5 : Then you calculate your implied commission. Your implied commission will be 3 % of the sum you get from number 2.
6 To calculate your commission generated which is what Betfair use for PC purpose , you now add together your commission paid ( the sum from 4 ) with your implied commission ( the sum from 5 ).
You then divide this number by 2 and voila .. you do now have your commission generated number.
7 : You now take your Gross Profit for the week ( the sum from 3 ) and divede this by 5. The number you get now is the minimum amount you will have to have as commission generated if you are to avoid paying PC for the week.
If your commission generated sum is lower than the sum you get when you divide your Gross Profit by 5 , you will have to pay the difference in tax to Betfair and this tax is called Premium Charge.
If you're lazy you can just use your betfair points to approximate it- you get 10 points for every pound of actual or implied comission so you can very easily work out how much you've "paid" by dividing your points for the week by 20. Now get your pre comission profit by adding up your betting history and work out the difference between 20% of that and your comission/implied comission (as calculated via points). It's not perfect but there's nothing you can do about paying it anyway so I find that good enough.
Thanks guys for taking the time to explain
I now also get the previous suggestion of having system bets such as backing premiership draws to bring your PC charge down over time.
This will make it a lot harder/impossible for me to keep going on here once it kicks in but I'll see what happens I guess
I now also get the previous suggestion of having system bets such as backing premiership draws to bring your PC charge down over time.
This will make it a lot harder/impossible for me to keep going on here once it kicks in but I'll see what happens I guess
I've made quite a lot as things are but cant see I can take a 20% hit, do people manage to survive this?
I haven't heard of anyone who is clever enough, lucky enough to be in a situation where he or she pays a Premium Charge, failing to survive. Perhaps you are just on a streak which will correct itsef and your antipated survival problem will disappear.
I haven't heard of anyone who is clever enough, lucky enough to be in a situation where he or she pays a Premium Charge, failing to survive. Perhaps you are just on a streak which will correct itsef and your antipated survival problem will disappear.
Open a new account rob and dont get hit with this stupid charge its robbery there's ways around it if you really want to keep your 20%
IMAGINE BEING A CUSTOMER OF TESCO FOR 8 YEARS.Then you are told becourse you have shopped here regular and been a very good customer we are charging you 20percent extra well done betunfair.
Imagine keeping 95% of your profits after all expenses. Does anyone know of any business where that happens ?
Still mystified why this exists. Why dont they just charge everyone at 5% and ditch the discount factor instead?
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because commission applies mostly to punters who operate in a competitive market, whereas PC mostly hits people over whom BF has an effective monopoly.
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because commission applies mostly to punters who operate in a competitive market, whereas PC mostly hits people over whom BF has an effective monopoly.
KENILWORTH. you are a loser.or complete** take your pick
ELA MANA MOU 25 Dec 00:41
KENILWORTH. you are a loser.or complete ****** take your pick
You should have put the whole of that intelligent comment in upper case. It would have added to the effect.
btw Ken is one of the few people here that demonstrates any thought to their betting. So I would not class him as a ******* . The opposite in fact.
Does the commision from the betfairgames adds to the total pls
zug72 25 Dec 03:09
Does the commision from the betfairgames adds to the total pls
A fascinating question. Start a fred on the arcade games forum and see what you can find out. ;)
Does the commision from the betfairgames adds to the total pls
A fascinating question. Start a fred on the arcade games forum and see what you can find out. ;)
kenilworth 24 Dec 17:34
Imagine keeping 95% of your profits after all expenses. Does anyone know of any business where that happens ?
KENLWORTH, is all depends on what you regard as 95% of your profits. :0
If you choose to exclude costs of ski TV
If you choose to exclude your newspapers and magazines costs.
If you choose to exclude your internet costs.
Your technology costs of buying a computer and Blackberry.
And the rent for your room in your house you operate in.
And the time you put in doing your research whether thats going to race meetings or sport events or just plain form searching on the Racing Posts.
And the fact you only pay Premiun Charges on a winning week not over the calendar year which could well turn out a losing one.
You probably would have a point.
BUT LIKE THE BOOKIES and many more on here would choose to take in all my costs before I start talking about 95% profits. :(
But each to their own....Happy Christmas.....Bless
Imagine keeping 95% of your profits after all expenses. Does anyone know of any business where that happens ?
KENLWORTH, is all depends on what you regard as 95% of your profits. :0
If you choose to exclude costs of ski TV
If you choose to exclude your newspapers and magazines costs.
If you choose to exclude your internet costs.
Your technology costs of buying a computer and Blackberry.
And the rent for your room in your house you operate in.
And the time you put in doing your research whether thats going to race meetings or sport events or just plain form searching on the Racing Posts.
And the fact you only pay Premiun Charges on a winning week not over the calendar year which could well turn out a losing one.
You probably would have a point.
BUT LIKE THE BOOKIES and many more on here would choose to take in all my costs before I start talking about 95% profits. :(
But each to their own....Happy Christmas.....Bless
I forgot to add one you see the stock market investors talk about.
The cost of risk to your Capital ie,losing all your money on a transaction. :0
(A danger and cost very few other business face.)
.......................................................................
ANYONE ELSE WANT TO HIGHLIGHT others costs to gambling that Kenlworth is choosen to ignore?
The cost of risk to your Capital ie,losing all your money on a transaction. :0
(A danger and cost very few other business face.)
.......................................................................
ANYONE ELSE WANT TO HIGHLIGHT others costs to gambling that Kenlworth is choosen to ignore?
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