What does ROI mean?

no timescale I think..........so the best way is to get one winner then retire with 100% ROI

has to be year surely

its such a gay term

unfortunately Betfair turns you into a geek

French for King.

Timescale wouldn't be crucial so long as there is a return on (the) investment at 12% - you won't get a quarter of that figure from any bank right now.

Profit after tax / Project Investment


Yes, i had my CIMA exams this week :(

Republuic of Ireland

12% a day would be tasty.
Of course that's what you need if you're going to pay and keep good servants these days.

ROI relates to the % of profit on turnover for the current winning streak. It crystalises at the end of the streak and is put in a box for posterity.

Return On Investment

not_drwho 29 Nov 13:54
Return On Investment







:|

Per day, per week, per month or per annum?

ROI is not time specific. Could apply to 1 bet or 10000 bets. However in relation to the statement you quoted it refers to 3 years worth of bets. Approx Turnover of £2,250,000, approx profit of £270,000. That equates to a 12% return on investment during this period.

And if it is traders making 12% would that be calculated after applying a notional charge to the P&L for a fair value salary or before?

It must be time specific. And Turnover of £2,250,000, approx profit of £270,000 is the margin on turnover not ROI.

turnover seems low, someone with a 5k bank could easily turn over 200,000 worth of bets trading one cricket match.

If I bet £5K on 10 cricket matches at even money and 6 of them win is my investment not 50K? my profit not 10K? and my ROI not 10/50 (20%)? If my terminology is wrong I apologise.

If I bet £5K on 10 cricket matches at even money and 6 of them win is my investment not 50K? my profit not 10K? and my ROI not 10/50 (20%)? If my terminology is wrong I apologise.




I would view it as £5k is your investment if that is your bank. £50k is the turnover, so the gross margin is 20% if the profit is £10k. The return on your investment over that period is 200%. That is the way I would view it.

When people talk about ROI in relation to gambling they usually mean Profit on Turnover, which is expressed as a percentage.

In my opinion it is a more interesting statistic for straight gamblers rather than people that back and lay. If I tell you one guy makes a 10% ROI and another guy makes 2%, that doesn't tell you anything about which one is more successful.

For me the real measure of success is how much money you make, and how much time, effort and money you use to make that profit.

In 2007 I made 18.14% Profit on Turnover.
From 1/1/2009 -13/09/2009 I made 2.47% Profit on Turnover.
Yet in the first 8.5 months of 2009 I made 26 times as much profit as all of 2007

This is due mainly to having more money to bet with and an increase in activity. If you churn your cash through more markets per day/week/month, your profits (if there are any) will increase, but your Profit on Turnover % won't. You are however using the same amount of money to make more money in the same time frame.

Thanks. I am glad that we are getting closer. The measure I would use for the most accurate measure of success is ROCE after taking into a account a notional charge to the P&L for time spent.

I dont find it a useful metric.

the only meaningful measure for myself is 4 week rolling average bank growth

Plus withdrawals is the measure I use.

sqzy is correct.
You've invested 10 points( irrespective of what your bank is )
Therefore 2points profit = 20% ROI

It ought to be called ROT. Coz it is not a return on investment at all. ;)

Alex the old wind up merchant is right of course.
Most people are talking about return on turnover, which is not time specific, whereas ROCE is, and also is the more important statistic in terms of evaluating whether it is worth allocating both time, effort and money into gambling on a professional basis.
Your time and labour input has a value and should always be factored into any return on any capital employed analyses.
After all if you can just put your gambling funds into an alternative passive investment returning the same amount of spending income each year, and go away on permanent vacation and live the life of riley ( with Alex as your personal manservant), then that alternative would represent a better ROCE, wouldn't it ?

you show me where i can invest my £100,000 for a £75,000 yearly return for no work and I'm in.

ROI (or RoI)


Republic of Ireland?

Me too.
Of course you have to factor in the degree of risk of losing most if not all of your capital.
After all you are gambling are you not ?
Or can you make such a return with little or no risk.
Amazing if you can.

risk assesment is 0.05% chance of bankrupcy. 0.1% chance of 0 profit in any given year and very low SD

I would love to know how you so exactly calculate such matters.
Is it some sort of analyses of any and all betting techniques, comparative to your own ?
Is it just an extrapolation of past performance ?
This is an area I know little about tbh.

In very simple terms;
You know your mean expectation from any bet (take a couple of years worth of bets), estimate the no. of bets you will have in any given year (again using your betting history) and run a simulator x times (20,000 works for me) with a given starting betting bank and given bet size. Then analyse to your hearts content. Two of the most important figures are the mean proft and Standard Deviation. You can work out how likely you are to go bankrupt how likely you are to not make a profit in any given year, the fluctuations in profit etc etc. Just by changing your starting bank and bet sizes you will see how that effects your mean profit and most importantly your SD.

sqzy,

Surely you should use these simulations to size your bets in such a way that the chance of bankruptcy approaches zero?

Lowering the swings in profits and losses is one of the most important things you can do to guarantee profitability. The less stable your returns are, the more your PL will be determined by luck.

Err, hence the reason for the syndicate. I think a 2000/1 chance of an individual losing their initial bankroll is pretty low risk personally but by increasing our syndicate it will lower this. Stange comment.

Sounds like a reasonable structure to me sqzy. Good luck to you.