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charliegi
02 Nov 09 22:10
Joined:
Date Joined: 20 Jun 06
| Topic/replies: 2,570 | Blogger: charliegi's blog
I'm owed 10k from these guys, nothing has been said by Vantis the administrators.
Just got the shock of my life when went to www.betbrokers.com.

Anybody know anything?
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Report MOUNT CLERIGO November 2, 2009 9:26 PM GMT
see what you mean.

how can they launch again when they owe so many people money?
Report charliegi November 2, 2009 9:30 PM GMT
I don't think they would be relaunching as it's very tactful in the wording "launch" rather than relaunch.
The adminstrators must have sold the client base and the domain which was probably worth something, so anybody owed money should be in for a cut.
Report starship November 2, 2009 9:41 PM GMT
the same guy who ran berbrokers also had a company called affinity internet
i brought in at £4.75
went to £80
back down to 43p
then went broke,
got delisted off the stock exchange
the guy name is
wayne lockroom [ something like that ]
Report charliegi November 2, 2009 9:42 PM GMT
He can't be behind this?
Report charliegi November 2, 2009 9:46 PM GMT
I don't understand law, but if Lads went bust tomorrow owing £100 million, somebody can't trad under Lads and not pay the people owed? please advise
Report starship November 2, 2009 9:46 PM GMT
i believe that he is
Report charliegi November 2, 2009 9:47 PM GMT
Wat again, wat about people owed money??
Report starship November 2, 2009 9:47 PM GMT
they dont get paid
Report charliegi November 2, 2009 9:48 PM GMT
But, how can he be OK and launch a new company under the same name a year later?
How does that work, please help me as I;m getting annoyed.
Report starship November 2, 2009 9:50 PM GMT
i dont know
Report charliegi November 2, 2009 9:50 PM GMT
It can't be right, it goes back to my lads thread.
Report starship November 2, 2009 9:52 PM GMT
u will probally get an answer if u posed the same question on
Tradefair & Financials forum
Report charliegi November 2, 2009 9:52 PM GMT
Do u know for sure that Lochmore? is behind this?
Report starship November 2, 2009 9:53 PM GMT
pretty sure he was in charge of both companies
Report charliegi November 2, 2009 9:54 PM GMT
If somebody now opens up a shop called woolworths and trades under that name it's worth something a lot, because the name is all they had.
So to by the name Betbrokers and the domain is worth something, so the administrators have funds to pay people, maybe not everythng, but they have something.
Report charliegi November 2, 2009 9:55 PM GMT
No, the new company???
Report charliegi November 2, 2009 10:09 PM GMT
e
Report Eldrick November 2, 2009 10:35 PM GMT
wayne lochnor said late last year (little more than 10 weeks after they collapsed) that he was keen to relaunch the business

anyone googling around this, do not click on anything to do with netbetblog, their website is loaded with trojans
Report Eldrick November 2, 2009 10:37 PM GMT
wayne lochner looks to be the spelling, but he may have little to do with this, who knows
Report Hayden November 3, 2009 12:38 AM GMT
http://www.123people.co.uk/s/wayne+lochner
Report To err is human November 3, 2009 10:28 AM GMT
I never used these guys but did they lay?
Report Moon Light November 3, 2009 3:29 PM GMT
Limited liability company = legalised robbery.
Report Wee Mac November 3, 2009 3:39 PM GMT
Just a few weeks after betbrokers went into administration, Wayne Lochner was reported in the Racing Post as intending to start up again.

If you lose your clients' money, you just wind things up, walk away from the mess, and start all over again without any difficulties.
Report Eldrick November 3, 2009 3:48 PM GMT
seems**ers to use the betbrokers name again though

their T&Cs said client funds were held in a segregated account - how come it was empty when everyone asked for their deposits back then?

who is going to trust them after that?
Report Wee Mac November 3, 2009 4:00 PM GMT
Lochner told the RP funds were protected. The latest Vantis report and the article below suggest otherwise. And Vantis' fees will run into 6 figures, I believe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/2795693/Un...
Report topkat November 3, 2009 4:22 PM GMT
his name is wayne lochner. he is a pleasant guy to have a drink with, shrewd and very good in a meeting

i worked on the team that developed betbrokers - it never struck me as that brilliant an idea in the first place, so i am surprised someone is having another crack at it

most people would accept that running a business involves taking risks. for example suppliers risk that they might not get paid

but customers placing their capital with a betting company are not suppliers, rather they are putting the betting company in a position of trust

clients' funds should have been placed in a client segregated funds account, and promptly returned to clients as soon as the business went tits up

i got ripped off by a letting agent in a similar way 10+ years ago and will never forget the ** who did it. folks will be feeling the same about bb
Report Eldrick November 3, 2009 5:16 PM GMT
vantis hoping to wind the company up tomorrow? does this have any legal implications? does it mean that vantis draw a line under the company after spending 14 months achieving nothing and extracting as much as they can in costs from the carcass?

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/59209/pages/17511/page.pdf

In the High Court of Justice (Chancery Division)
Companies Court No 15503 of 2009
In the Matter of BETBROKER LIMITED
and in the Matter of the Insolvency Act 1986
A Petition to wind up the above-named Company of Vantis Business
Recovery Services, 43-45 Butts Green Road, Hornchurch, Essex RM11
2JX, presented on 19 June 2009 by Glyn Mummery and Jeremy Stuart
French (as Joint Administrators of Betbroker Limited), both of Vantis
Business Recovery Services, 43-45 Butts Green Road, Hornchurch,
Essex RM11 2JX, will be heard at the Royal Courts of Justice, Strand,
London WC2A 2LL, on 4 November 2009, at 1030 hours (or as soon
thereafter as the Petition can be heard).
Any person intending to appear on the hearing of the Petition (whether
to support or oppose it) must give notice of intention to do so to the
Petitioner or its Solicitors in accordance with Rule 4.16 by 1600 hours
on 3 November 2009.
The Petitioners Solicitor is Moon Beever, 24-25 Bloomsbury Square,
London WC1A 2PL, telephone 020 7637 0661, facsimile 020 7436
4663. (Ref JL/V00083-00003.) (943233)
Report Wee Mac November 3, 2009 5:36 PM GMT
Looks like it Eldrick. I don't recall any legal implications affecting other companies (e.g. Sporting Options) who likewise failed to ringfence funds. Seems the whole concept of 'ring-fencing' is just a load of hot air.

Interestingly, Ian Davies (the now-banned betfair forumite AKA Col Archaus Tory, who owns another betting exchange) has stated that no funds, whether held by trusteees or the operators themselves, are 100% safe, and that customers have to make a judgement call as to who they should trust.

So what's the point of these 'ring-fencing' declarations? No point it would seem, except to mislead customers into thinking their funds are protected.

They patently are not, yet no judicial proceedings ever seem to be brought against the miscreants.
Report charliegi November 6, 2009 2:04 PM GMT
T
Report Knight Rider November 6, 2009 2:13 PM GMT
As far as I understand, when funds are genuinely "ring-fenced" it just means that the company itself can't use those funds to pay costs etc - so if everyone asked to withdraw their full balance at the same time, in theory the money should all be there.

However "ring-fenced" does not legally protect the money once a business goes into administration. There will be a number of creditors who are owed money, and it seems customers are often at the bottom of the pile when it comes to trying to get a slice of whatever's left.
Report maggie2621. November 6, 2009 2:26 PM GMT
Dear old Gordy bears a lot of the blame for the current system.

He and his cohorts of experienced 'business people' have made England's bankruptcy rules the softest in Europe, hence why companies here offer a way for German companies to open an office in the UK for the specific purpose of going bankrupt under our rules, as opposed to the far more stringent German rules.

The rules on insolvency are far too lax and leave creditors in an impossible position. I see a lot of insolvency reports and you would not believe how many times creditors ( I don't include secured creditors such as the banks here of course) get nothing while the directors start up again the next week.

Often they are able to operate the 'new ' business in exactly the same premises, with the same stock and vehicles etc, but with no debts having bought the assets of the defunct company from the receiver for pennies in the pound.

the whole system is a farce and needs changing by Mr Osborne as soon as he gets his little feet under the table of No.11.
Report dr . atkins January 7, 2020 9:03 PM GMT
i see this name back
Report bettinghelp January 8, 2020 12:15 PM GMT
Verdict: No bet.
Report DFCIRONMAN January 8, 2020 2:43 PM GMT
You can , if you want some information regarding a Company visit the site :-

WEBCHECK

This is Companies House..........

Type the name of the Limited Company you want in search box.....click search, then click on the Company Number shown on top right of screen, then you get some BASIC info......THEN

Click on "Order information" ( on right hand side of screen )......and you will get some details on documents lodged with CH and of CHANGES re Directors etc etc

You can then obtain specific copies of such documents from CH ....BUT A CHARGE IS MADE THAT IS NOT TOO PUNITIVE !

NOTE : There is law relating to a DIRECTOR of a "dissolved" Company NOT BEING ALLOWED TO BECOME A DIRECTOR....ALSO ,

If it can be proved that the Company has traded ....WHEN IT SHOULD NOT HAVE TRADED ( Balance Sheet indicating this, plus any other appropriate indicators that Company should have ceased trading far earlier than it did etc ).......then the Liquidator can take appropriate action.

If a Director of a Company has told clients/customers who have accounts that the money is "ring fenced" , then IMO ( for what it is worth), this is possibly grossly misleading ( possibly fraudulent ) IF it is NOT "ring fenced" etc etc

Very complicated area of LAW IMO........Rarely do liquidators pursue Directors of dissolved companies.....probably as the cost of so doing effects how much fees they obtain after so doing!!!!

Really should be a  body specifically set up to investigate dissolved companies.....maybe already exists.....someone might know if there is or not.....otherwise possibly FRAUD SQUAD does this ....but not publicised if they do !

GL
Report DFCIRONMAN January 8, 2020 2:51 PM GMT
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/insolvency-service/about

Above body apparently has power to investigate etc etc
Report DFCIRONMAN January 8, 2020 2:54 PM GMT
See "complaints-" ....section for above body.
Report porter January 9, 2020 8:56 AM GMT
betbrokers1,,,see twitter,,,quite a few betting with them
Report DIE LINKE January 9, 2020 10:02 AM GMT
"Getting you on since 2017." dear me
Report porter January 13, 2020 8:57 AM GMT
betbrokers1 anyone using
Report starship January 13, 2020 12:29 PM GMT
my mate uses it.
had three bets. three losers.
if I hear anything..i will post
Report porter January 14, 2020 3:33 PM GMT
cheers starship,,,a few commenting on twitter
Report starship January 30, 2020 4:19 PM GMT
AVOID

owe a mate of mine a nice few quid
Report porter February 3, 2020 10:47 AM GMT
ab bet on twitter says owe people a lot,,,all ready
Report porter February 5, 2020 11:51 AM GMT
gone  off  with the lot,,,even conned darts sponser
Report DIE LINKE February 5, 2020 5:01 PM GMT
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me
Report DIE LINKE February 5, 2020 5:14 PM GMT
Have to say, if you are a scam artist racing twitter is the place to be. More marks on there than a tramp's y-fronts.
Report starship February 20, 2020 12:36 PM GMT
they have stopped trading.
does anyone know who was running this company
Report porter February 22, 2020 8:34 AM GMT
starship,,check messages or send private
Report VardonVoo. April 30, 2020 4:59 PM BST
@ DFCIRONMAN

You don't pay anything for annual company accounts, etc if you go to Companies House own website https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/

All made free of charge by David Cameron of all people - who'd 'a' thunk it?

The register doesn't cross-check anything though, so you get loads of dodgy directors with multiple listings of their own name or slight variations of it and each separate entry will have one or more defunct/dissolved companies often with a negative balance on their last filed accounts. It's kind of run like one of those "trust the motorist" car parks from the 70s.

A simple algorithm could spot all the duplicate entries in nano-seconds - I really don't know why they don't police it better.

Someone I know thought their letting agent was dodgy (really? Fancy that!) and I uncovered a chain of companies that owned each other about six levels deep before finding the true holding company, all using the same handful of addresses.
Report DFCIRONMAN May 1, 2020 9:24 PM BST
WEBCHECK - has the following stated :-

Use the tick boxes to select documents or reports from the lists below. Select the 'Add to Order' button to add to your shopping basket (up to £50 maximum order limit).

Prices of documents: £1.00 each.


I've never asked for copies before .......and only use it infrequently to to just see at a glance what documents have been lodged etc

Thanks for info re BETA site .....
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