Man United v Man City

Will that moron Neville shut up about the goal?

Neville still moaning about it

Fernandez was a yard offside and he went for thee ball drawing the defender with him and distracting the goalkeeper

Have we seen the lines? Looked clearly offside.

Good.
Nothing is too good for Scumchester

Do var no the rules

how is that not interfering wiv play ?

I look forward to the explanation as to why Enzo wasn't affecting play when he flung himself at the ball and the keeper had to account for him.

Great bit of playacting from Enzo

United's bench is incredibly weak, who have they got to bring on, Zirkzee and Mason Mount?

Red card incident....

https://youtube.com/shorts/I8k4v6bQAAk?si=NEqZhd3MfZ8Ziyul

Who would want Enzo playing for their team.

Arsenal

I think even their fans would be embarrassed with the way he conducts himself!

Remember Michael Oliver is in charge, this guy always gives decisions to City, he is is the Ref who refused to send off Kovacic for a blatant red card 2 years ago, helping City win the league - around the same time he was flown to the UAE to ref a game where he was paid by the same people who own City. He also sent of Lewis-Skelly in the title run in season before last, and Howard Webb had to come out and apologise for an obvious error. He's sent an  Arsenal player off once every games, sent a City player off once in 60 games.

every 8 games *

I've never known a striker stay onside as well
as Haaland

5 added , thought the VAR was 5 on it's own

I expect they'll be a BIG hoo-ha about VAR giving Haaland's goal

Wow

Great save Donnaruma

Mbuemo has got to roll it into bottom right corner

Perfect.
Made my day

The goalie has to be ready for offside guy to head ball so cannot react to haaland shot.

He clearly attempts to head ball, probably doesn't stop defender being able to get it,
but that's debatable, and he has impacted goalie.

Should be offside, but maybe a bit of the old correcting first half error.

Maresca done a Jose half running down the touchline

Did VAR not have a copy of the rules

corrupt

Abbadabbado has done his dough,then

All the talk will be about the goal to avoid the corruption in the game like a team playing with extra player not having a shot on goal sickens me

All the so called pundits and experts will debate it for hours and the result will stand .

bent bent bent

all green by the way

No goals again in a sky game mmmmm

What did you back, ABBA!!!!!

I bet three horses and they all won.

Were they the only horses in the race ?

The United GK moved to save Enzo's header then had to scramble to get to Haaland's shot.

Indeed snc, that's what I thought and posted above.

I wonder if they are just not quick enough to resolve everything correctly in the time they have.

In rugby they talk to each other live and hear what's going on, and what is being considered

Here you probably have flag for guy in middle and Haaland, obviously if he got a touch then it's ruled out, he didn't, but did
they forget to check impact on keeper...

what ever the rights and wrongs of it, MARTINEZ didnt even no where HAALAND was and you can see by his body action , once fernando didnt make contact he was/thought, he was ushering/let that ball run across his body  and  out for a goal kick,so in reality although he was going for the ball ,he didnt effect what MARTINEZ was going to do

Carricks fault.

No sub after sending off,5 at back against Harland,Maguire not sent forward on 80 mins,swapped strikers instead of defenders for strikers,

He’s too weak. ,scared,just wants to keep job he can’t do,

Obviously goal a joke ,

But you have to score 2 to win,allow for 1 freaky goal.

Solution

Double pay contracts for teams who don’t defender cos managers scared,tuchel and carrick can just collect single pay.

That might work.

So being distracted by guy in offside position meant he didn't see haaland,...

Offside

The goals ,the goal,wrong var idiots ,but score 2. That’s the solution,
Instead of trying not to lose to get a new contract.

Agreed yhtl

I have to hear Howard Webb explain this.

Yhtl,but the inactive player nearly touched the ball and scored,so he’s not inactive.espically on edge of 6 yard box with an open goal.hes active on both counts,involved and distraction of defenders.

It's OK because in a few days there will be an official apology so that's alright then.

You can add in the shocking penalty decision against Arsenal and the sending off which is a little more debatable meaning that VAR has had one of it's worst weekends ever.

Get it gone FFS

Var should be abolished,the ref should be made to check first decision on monitor,don’t need 2 refs.

Was Haaland's winner a VAR error?
published at 19:01 BST
19:01 BST

Dale Johnson
Football issues correspondent

It started with confusion over Haaland, but the goal scorer was at no stage actually offside.

Haaland had been played onside by the outstretched foot of Patrick Dorgu, who was attempting to block the cross from Josko Gvardiol. The deflection off the boot of Dorgu was not relevan.

Fernandez, however, was definitely in an offside position, stood in the centre of the penalty area well ahead of Dorgu’s boot.

It is what happened as the ball went through to Haaland to score that meant the goal should have been ruled out on a VAR intervention.

There is one key part of the offside law which applies to Fernandez:

“Clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent”

It is possible for a player in an offside position to attempt to play a ball and not commit an offence, because both parts of that clause must be met – there must be impact on an opponent.

Fernandez threw himself through the air to try to head the ball, with Lisandro Martinez directly behind him in the flight of the ball.

The VAR should ask himself if Fernandez’s action would influence a decision Martinez might make over playing the ball.

So, if Fernandez had not jumped to head the ball, would Martinez have made a different decision over playing the ball?

If the ball was well in front of the former Chelsea player, or if it was not within playing distance for Martinez, then there is an argument to give the goal.

But the ball went just a yard in front of Martinez, and it is very difficult to find any argument to say Fernandez did not commit an offside offence.

If Fernandez had not tried to play the ball, and just allowed it to run through, then there would not be a question of offside.

As the goal was incorrectly ruled out for offside against Haaland, the VAR should have sent referee Michael Oliver to the monitor for the subjective offence by Fernandez.

It would have created the odd situation where there was a review for a disallowed goal for a goal to remain disallowed, but this is what should have happened.

It was a clear offside offence by Fernandez and will go down as a mistake by the VAR.

Now wehave the first phase didn't affect the second phase etc.
Utter cobblers

VAR misinterpreted the rules.

I don't know what we do about that.

Var gets demoted, and we go again.

They should know the rules so it's probably
an oversight error, but a poor error all the
same.

fans were happier before VAR, as were gamblers.

VAR's a mess.

But Foden went down like a sack of spuds when hardly touched by Fernandes and acted all outraged (hoping to get Fernandes booked) but going in studs up!?!
Thick or what? Fernandes goes down in laughable "agony" and that's that...
Whole thing backfired spectacularly for Foden.

But,not as much as it did for ManUre

how about it went like this
they new enzo was offside

they proved ALFIE was onside

they then checked to see if enzo touched ball which would   make ALFIE offside

concluded he didnt

but then they  FORGOT that they,d already decided ENZO wa offside ,so give goal

sounds mad,,but thats what ny fiver is on

VAR have admitted it was a mitake and  apologied to man utd

It was n t a mistake that man u did n t score

Following the incident in the 60th minute of Sunday's Premier League fixture between Manchester United and Manchester City at Old Trafford, we can provide clarification regarding Erling Haaland’s awarded goal.

“The on-field decision was offside against Erling Haaland – that was checked by VAR and he was found to be in an onside position.

“In the same attack, it was established that Enzo Fernandez did not play the ball and therefore that makes any offside offence subjective, however, on this occasion, the VAR did not recognise the likely impact of his position and should have recommended an on-field review.

“Contact has been made with Manchester United this evening to acknowledge what we deem is an error of judgement. A review of the incident will take place.”

When they apologise it makes it worse , we know we got it wrong but we are sorry .

You'd never know this is a multi-billion pound industry

Howard Webb must go.

VAR is bad but the problem is still the ridiculous offside rules. Should be scrapped altogether.

Refs having to apologise because they didnt notice a player gaining an advantage at being a distraction for someone who didnt gain an advantage on account of someones big toe twenty yards away

Arteta was incensed last night at the penalty award, what about if City win the league by a point, the league is completely compromised the this mess.

Iits the stupidly complicated offside rules that are wrong here. In my day ( here I go )  when the ball is played Enzo is clearly immediately offside , free kick, no goal , move on, simples.
How are refs or even var expected to check the multitude of possibilities and judgements  in the offside rule as it is now in just a few minutes?
Man City were still awesome though.

There will be more errors, but hopefully fewer.

Arsenal fans said they were robbed 2 seasons ago, but cannot accept they had a few go their way last season.

But that's not just arsenal fans....

When these errors get argued by partisan fans then they never quite get the attention
they deserve.

Why can't refs just referee fairly? If not get
foreign refs, as euro games I've been to seem to be refereed to a far higher standard.

Our refs wouldn't last 3 weeks away from protection of pro ref (pgmol)

It isn't about fairly you have to be confident they are doing their best that might be the problem they have gone equivalent brick layers to brain surgeons some are clearly full of their own self - importance when they shouldn't be. The rules are pathetic and the game suffers first time in a long time I couldn't be arsed to watch it bit like the presenter on Talk Sport at 6:50 had to switch her off on about advertising the game is gone or certainly is going backwards but then again so is the world at large.

As someone has already said, what if City win the title by a single point, or more likely, United are relegated by a point?

it was obvious where they went wrong lat night,they got themselves involved in proving, showing the goalscorer was onside ,when as said above their was no need to,as enzo was clearly onside attempting to play the ball,end of ,no need to check anything else, instead they went down the rabbit hole of is there a way we can allow this goal to stand,not why it shouldnt stand, NEVO was also wrong for 5 mins because he thought ALFIE was offside,
the rule i dont like is mbo shot in last min ,offside ,keeper saves they could have equalised off the corner,keeper could have been better off letting the shot in ,,yet if a corner is incorrectly given they can change the decision,or at least could in the world cup

To be fair, lucky call on the Man City bet, but landed anyway. Thats three games they have scraped a victory from somewhere...

The last player to touch the ball before Haaland scored was a Man U defender as the cross deflected off his foot - at one time that would render everyone to be deemed as onside!! New rules are obviously too complicated for a Referee to work out and too complicated it seems for half a dozen in the VAR room as well.

Man U fans should stop whinging, Fernandez should have been sent of along with Foden. Oh, and remember the Wolves game?

This is what the players wanted, referee's making mistakes. Why are they so unhappy about this one?


Footballers spend most of game trying to get the referee to make a mistake.

Appealing pretty much every throw in, foul, offside, Hoping the ref will make a mistake.



It's funny watching the indignation because they got what they wanted.

Fair goal. Martinez was no where near an on-side Haaland, made not a jot of difference to the keeper's position. The rule as written is stupid anyway, 'attempting to play the ball'?? re. Fernandez. Should be black and white as per the old days. If you're off-side and standing on the pitch then it's off-side. As they used to say, 'If you're not interfering with play, what are you doing on the pitch!'

The reason Martinez was nowhere near Haaland is because initially he was trying to mark the offside Fernandez interfering with play as he dived attempting to head the ball. Nothing fair about that goal.

He was always marking Fernandez, on-side or off.

They came out yesterday and said it wasn't a fair goal and explained why and apologised to United but you think it was a fair goal? Maybe read the up to date version of the rules.

IMHO
this has nothing to do with VAR knowing/not knowing the rules/laws
var new within 30 secs enzo was offside and impacting play
but for reasons best known to them and like NEVO on tv they got fixated on and put one down down the rabbit hole, ALFIES onside/offside position which was irrelevant to the final decision, they then like 100% of those watching were gobsmacked to see the tech showed ALFIE onside even though it was irrelevant ,and here is the important bit , they then jumped 2 footed down the rabbit hole, and  in the multiple times they looked to see if ENZO got a touch,they wernt looking to see if the TOUCH proved enzo was impacting play[ they,d already decided he was ]they were looking to see if an ENZO touch then made ALFIE offside in 2nd phase, having correctly identified enzo didnt touch and ALFIE was onside throughout,they give a goal completely forgetting/brain freeze that they,d already decided enzo was offside and impacting play

its possible if they show/release the audio,that the above will be shown,i dont believe they spent more than a nano second discussing if ENZO was either offside or impacting play and if audio shows they were,they should be sacked

If he didn't impact play he's in an offside position but not offside.

So they needed to spot it and send ref to monitor to give decision.

It's quite a clumsy system, and they've got
one of the steps wrong.

well we,re going to hear the audio along with howard webb on sky tonight

Why just on Sky?

Don't all football fans deserve to know Pro Ref's explanation?

6pm

Cheers, will listen to that.

All it would need is for Webb to get on the phone and say 'wtf are you doing?' while they are reviewing it. We saw him on the phone when Saliba got sent off v Bournemouth a couple of years back, so it's not unprecedented. Not really interested in listening to him explain another howler.

It looks like a corrupt decision as it's hard to imagine that level of incompetence and how they all missed it. The optics couldn't be worse, it's the Sunday 4.30pm game, when nearly all the big games are played and the world is watching.

Maybe they rushed the decision as they heard Webb on phone and thought he wanted them to hurry up.

As you say it's hard to accept that they are
actually so rubbish at var they forgot to check such a basic step.

But...

I hope Webb has enough time to cover the Sunderland Arsenal penalty.

like saying it hard to accept a judge calling the wrong horse a winner from a photo,but how many times as it hapened, brain freeze like the spurs v l,pool goal,
if anyone in the var room wanted to be corrupt in favouring man city ,they,d have intervened in red card decision aking oliver to over turn it,which 99% of people would have agreed with,why would you choose a decision 99.9999999% of people disagreed with ?

in the  audio they never for one econd considered/mentioned that ENZO was offside STAGGERING ,FIXATED completely on the goalcorer

so the LINO getting praised for getting decision right on the field for 2 days  actually got it wrong flagging HALAAND offside

Keep up 1tp

Just watched the video with Ref comms.

Far too much comms from Stockly Park team.

And they were clearly affected by how long it was taking and the VAR was beginning to panic and rushing through, to that end it felt that the VAR did not want to spend any more time on a new piece of the play so ignored the question of enzo's involvement in affecting play.

Agreed.

I have no idea why offside isn't decided by AI leaving just the subjective decisions to VAR.

It is, isn't it?

Semi automated offside is sort of AI, and decided
Haaland was onside.

Knowing if he touched ball, on way to Haaland, would be visual but had he
got closer then a chip in the ball would be handy for AI.

Some systems use a chip.

The problem was not actually considering the subjective offside at all.

Either because they forgot because they were chuffed with
sorting previous two decisions, or they forgot because
of time pressure, or both

We've all got stuff wrong, and or forgotten stuff, but
that's why the Mrs asks me if Ive the door.

They were lacking that little prompt from mrs

I'm sure AI could do that!!!

Locked the door...

Lol forgot to type locked,..

One thing that comes across when we hear these exchanges is the underlying apparent panic involved, the need to reach as quick a decision as possible clearly puts the accuracy of the whole process at risk.

Yep, referee seems to be in hurry to shout his view to linos
and var.

Which is stark contrast to rugby, where refs, miked up
for TV, seem to be in calm control all the time.

I wonder if it helps that in Rugby the clock is stopped whereas in football it is not, time is supposed to be added on but it's not an exact science and there must be a psychological aspect where the VAR feel that they are wasting time.

It's possible, and they have been trying to be quicker this season anyway.

At rugby the crowd are entertained by seeing and hearing what is being looked at.

Football fans, in stadium, are totally in dark, with some trying to find out from TV commentary or radio, via their phones.

If its a complicated decision they still need to get it right, imagine they had 2 offsides to check and 2 in offside positions needing a subjective check,.. It'll take a bit longer but get it right as best is possible. Because the evidence will get out
and processes that lead to mistakes is worst
they can do.

Of course there will still be arguments about decisions, like handball, soft fouls etc, but they are not mistakes.

The whole feel around the Rugby process is one of a relaxed state of affairs, crucially in football the crowd appear to be a far more threatening aspect of the process with the officials really feeling that pressure.

When we hear the exchanges the chaos is palpable.

That's the bald truth duffy

I think the air of control adds to the acceptance of decisions, and the air of utter panic fuels concerns, hence they want it hushed.