Worse premiership in a long time

Weakest level was 2015 to 2017

This is surpassing that by a mile

No. Arsenal, Man United, City, Liverpool all had worse teams than they do today.

Chelsea and Tottenham had better teams.

Aston Villa had their worst team for about 50 years.....

2015-2017 the top premier league teams were cannon fodder for Barca/Bayern/Real

Current Arsenal wiped the floor with Bayern and Real.  Chelsea stuffed Barca last week.

The PL quality is better now, though the top teams not good this week.

2017/18 was the worst PL season
City won it with 100 points and man utd second with 81 points. Jose the CL and EPL winning manager saying it was his best managerial performance. Spurs were third and Liverpool fourth with VVD and Allison coming in January

This season is a very poor one though. The season of set pieces, the long throw and having big physical players, Ove watched matches live and the quality is poor. Forget about the CL as that will become a different competition after the league faze as last year

Arsenal will win it easily as Liverpool have imploded and made too many changes, City are nowhere near the team that won EPL's, Chelsea can beat any team on their day but are too inconsistent and are just as likely to put a 5 out of 10 performance as a 10 out of ten one

I think Big Sam and Tony Pulis were visionaries giving what I am watching

The year Leicester won it was worse. All the top sides were awful. Hence Leicester winning it. 81 points, won it by 10 points with 2 games to spare.

The reason teams are resorting to set-pieces is because a lot of teams are much better organised defensively and have a much better counter-attacking threat. All the way down to bottom half-teams.

If City get a midfielder in Jan who can retain possession and protect their defence more than what they have currently, eg like Elliot Anderson, Arsenal will not win easy or at all. If Rodri + Kovacic get back to near their best then even moreso. Pep will be going for a player like that in Jan. They could go on a long run of wins if they get that. They are very vulnerable when they lose possession ATM and don't keep possession or press like they used to.

Refs are allowing a lot more physicality, so it's harder
to play football as it was.

Citeh get less soft fouls awarded and ref tells them
to get up.

It's a great league at the moment, certainly attending games
and looks decent on TV too.

Last years was worse than this

there are 5 points between 4th and 14th ot much between most teams other than wolves and burnley who areout of their depth and gooners who are going well

Probably dreadful in terms of the title itself as no-one wants to make a challenge, but that makes it wide open after first.

But we do appear to have reached peak "everyone can get fit and be organised" football.


Everyone knows how to stop everyone playing any football, just nullifying them, making it hard to score and then trying to get them with a corner or long throw.


The only game I can remember enjoying this season is the Scotland one from a few weeks ago. Everything else, and I'm scrolling through my phone after ten minutes.

Anyone got any stats on time of ball in play per season.

Cos this season seems mental.

Every throw in sees some berk strolling over casually from twenty yards away. Every free kick has 3 people over it doing rock, paper, scissors to see what to do. Even goal kicks now we get a little zoom call on who should be taking it, only for them to pass it ten yards sideways.

You could cut half time down to five minutes and just have adverts every time the ball goes out of play.

It's a weird season, that's for sure. If I can find a stick to beat Arsenal with I would use it, without hesitation, but only stick available is that of all the rest. They've had virtually no competition at all and even City's 5-4 win to keep them within spitting distance does not bode well for the rest of the season. It is already Arsenal's title to lose, which doesn't look likely at all.

It would be great for the PL if another team put on the pressure so that if Arsenal do win, they have at least worked for it.

plenty of time forgooners to bottle it

The telling point will be if they get a little pressure in the PL and go deep in the CL.

Arsenal have so much cover and competition for places.  That is a great place to be.  Whoever plays wants to play well and keep the spot.  And they appear very fit and able to handle themselves.  Favs. for me.

injuries will play a key part. arsenal are right now, one of the best teams in europe, while man city are not anywhere close to being the team they were, and neither are liverpool. arsenal could be well clear by end of january, so far clear that they could bottle it and still win.

defo favs but it will get mentally very tough for them as they get nearer  they have not done it b4 so who knows its been a strange season already

In my opinion they have been knocking on the door for several seasons now and where they were once weak, and timid, they are now strong and capable. If they somehow manage to blow it, we would all be shocked, not forgetting it would be hilarious, but hard to see that happening at the juncture. Even the CL could be in reach (God forbid).

*this juncture.

you only have to look at the benches to see arsenals squad is far superior

they hardly let anyone go in the summer and strengthened with quality

every other team will get injuries as well

going back to the topic the games between the supposed top teams Liverpool and Arsenal, Arsenal and City, Chelsea and Arsenal were absolutely turgid affairs

I was at the Liverpool v Arsenal game and from the kick off rice set the tone of the game by punting the ball into touch just like Jonny Wilkinson for field position

We've reached the stage where NFL fans can't be bothered watching an EPL game because there are too many stoppages

Definitely no excuses if we (AFC) don't win the EPL this year.
Even with injuries currently, the squad is at last deep enough to cope.
The wage bill must be huge.

Arsenal have a lot of cover but they lost Mosquera last night and had to bring on Timber at CH. Another injury at the back and they won't have adequate cover. Saliba should be back soon, hopefully for Villa away on Sat. I can see them dropping points in that one.

This guy Emery is amazing.  Villa were very poor early on then suddenly they’re top four.  He always looks like he’s bristling about something.     I think he injects that sort of fear factor that players seem to respond to when mixed with the right coaching intelligence and drive.

PoP is correct, the EPL in general has not been a great spectacle this season despite all the hype. So many stoppages and the ball in play stats bear this out.
The following was collated after just 7 rounds of games but i'm pretty sure things will not have improved since :

Approximately 55 minutes
In the 2025-26 Premier League season, the average ball-in-play time per game is approximately 55 minutes after 70 matches, which is almost two minutes fewer than last season. This season has seen a total of 45 minutes and 35 seconds of delays/pauses during play, which is longer than the previous season. The ball has been in play for about 54.7% of games on average this season, the lowest in the past 10 full seasons.
FBref.com

disgraceful stats

Season
    Average Ball-in-Play Time
2017/18    56 minutes
2018/19    55 minutes, 31 seconds
2019/20    55 minutes, 49 seconds
2020/21    56 minutes, 22 seconds
2021/22    55 minutes, 8 seconds
2022/23    54 minutes, 49 seconds
2023/24    58 minutes, 11 seconds
2024/25 56 minutes, 59 seconds

Yep, shocking stuff, it's reached the point now whereas when the ball went out of play not so long ago you didn't "feel" the wait for a restart but now when the ball goes out of play you actually palpably feel the delay as you wait for the game to restart.

Cheers gents. Does anyone know the total game time averages then per season. This season has dropped on last, but - also - it feels like we also get a lot more injury time now than previous seasons, so ratio wise it's even worse.

Season     Average Stoppage Time (minutes and seconds)
2018/19    6min 40sec
2019/20    7min 32sec
2020/21    6min 34sec
2021/22    7min 29sec
2022/23    8min 27sec
2023/24    11min 39sec


I don't have last year's figures, my guess is it's slightly
lower than 23/24.... But no money on that.

When you watch an old BBC programme on TV and it's full
of adverts it often spoils the flow, seems pretty similar
with football.

But teams are choosing to disrupt flow when teams get on
top, or need a breather.

They are planning to penalise goalies going down to
time waste by removing a team mate for 30 seconds from
restart... Dunno if they'll get that passed but
apparently it's getting serious consideration.

That 11 minute one was in the aftermath of the last world cup when there was a marked push to include extra added time, I think that has faded away now and with the added time being lost to the lackadaisical approach to getting the ball back into play these days means the problem is far worse with even more time lost, it's a double whammy.

The 5 second count down for goalies holding onto
ball has been a huge success, and they are looking
at ways they might extend that too.

Correct Duffy.

You look at the two tables and it feels like they're using the wrong tool to fix the job.

To the question of how do we punish time wasting, they've just added more time on. But then this has just allowed time wasting to flourish, games to fragment, everything to be less entertaining but now for 105 minutes instead of 95.


Feels like they need to go the other way. Maybe a timer on throw ins and free kicks. Proper enforcement of goal kick time wasting. Maybe even not add time on if the wasters suddenly lose their advantage and are chasing it at the end.

Totally agree.

Teams playing hi energy press take advantage of
rules to slow it down as it suits them, and, just
about all teams are doing it.

Thats why the goalie count down is a success they
want to expand upon.

PP, completely agree, the whole thing becomes more fragmented and elongated, it's like the players think it is "OK" to take longer because the time will just be added on, which it doesn't get correctly done, we need to get back to compacting the playing time and allowing it to flow.

Of course the game flows more as less fouls are penalised.

League .. Average Fouls Per Game


La Liga ~27.0
Serie A     ~26.6
Ligue 1 ~26.4
Bundesliga ~24.0
Premier League ~20.9

Imagine them extra 6 free kicks every game...

We've sacrificed quality for quantity. They've done more to ensure more minutes are added to compensate for those wasted, but nothing to shore up the constant breaks in play that destroy momentum and ruin it as a spectacle. That's what needs to change.

In terms of levels of quality - Arsenal seem quite clear to me, Man City are not close to any of their teams from the last 10 years and Liverpool seem to have unbalanced their side and thus caused confidence issues.

You could throw a blanket over the next 12 or 13 sides - Villa were near the bottom not too long ago but now sit 3rd. My team (Man Utd) have had numerous chances to win a game and go 3rd or 4th despite not really being very good.

The time wasting/ball in play/game management issue has been going on forever - as soon as plans are put into place teams will find a way around them. It's win at all costs for these managers in particular to keep their jobs and they don't care how dubious, unsportsmanlike or embarrassing their methods are if they get the job done.

Got to give Arteta credit; he's cottoned on to the way the game was going early doors. Focus on set pieces, get a team full of groks. Pep seems to have now gone that way too, but without keeping Rodri fit the midfield is too lightweight to be relied on properly. Meanwhile Liverpool went the opposite way and thought this was the time for a 5ft 7 number ten. Oh dear.

This long throw malarkey has been in and out of fashion for donkeys years , Chelsea beat Leeds in the Fa cup from a long throw in 1970, Dion Dublin was playing for Cambridge in lower leagues at it,  and Arise Sir Dave Bassett  didnt teams start putting players on the touchline to try and stop the long throws ?

it feels 10 x worse when watching at a ground ,you can literally go to toilet buy a coffee in the time it takes to take a set piece and its every set pieces, their that programmed to do it,even when a team are all over opposition,opposition on their knees blowing a casket, attacking/offensive team still take an age to get the ball back in to play,the most useless piece of equipment in football now are the cones spread around pitch with multi balls on to get ball in play quicker,everyone just ignores them and waits for ball been used to get thrown back

funniest thing I've seen this yr at boro,derby only completed just over a 100 passes wasting time  from when scoring after 2 mins at every set pieces,reff did nowt ,keeper wasting time, boro came back got in fron 15 mins from end  and at next throw in took their time ,reff came over and told boro to get a wiggle on, PRICELESS

we should take a leaf out of NFL and have special teams that come on for set pieces  all players about 6ft 8in with a dead ball specialist

and a long thrower of course

Rory Delap was surely the EPL King of the long throw. There's a compilation of Stoke goals emanating from them on you tube.

they should have a pre season mini prem nxt year with the scottish and irish and welsh teams in america with them, because i believe the scottish premierleague is better than ppl describe,

italys gone nower with there constant apparent talk of beating  england in the euros final. apparently Kaio Jorge is signing for a unknown italian side i reakon juventus but its a guess,

gb d.jota

england/ireland v spain/france

at least 7 n 4 from each nation

a double national side mini euros

instead of international friendlies no1 seems too like , could just have a mini double nations league.
a double national trophy,

everton fc last year 'didnt wanna win the league cup' this year they where going for a trophy 'out to wolves'


everton now havent won a trophy since before 2000 well before , 30 years or something , everton are in blue shirts there home shirt suits the mersey , praise where praise is due , go for gold moyes u didnt care now u ...