Jude Bellingham dropped by England

is he overrated ? Games I have seen him and to be fair it's not every week I think he possibly could be

Chippy

Not sure why he would be in the team or why it would look like he's dropped.

He's just come back from shoulder surgery

Played just 10 minutes v Carrot Almighty in the CL

Played 1, 19 then 70 mins in La Liga from game week 4 onwards

No where near up to speed or near match fitness.

Saka missed a couple of games but didn't need surgery and has played far more minutes including from the start of the season.

Having said that, Bellingham has been giving me Big Time Charlie vibes for a long while, even in the final against Spain when the game was going against England, apparently he turned to the touchline and screamed at Southgate "fking do something", then there's his demeanour and body language, almost as if to say he's carrying the side.

Reality however is that he has real competition on his hands, Foden and Palmer can both play that number 10 role having two of them in there hasn't really worked. So not being included for whatever reason should sharpen his mind anyway, but then Foden hasn't been included, probably because he's really only had 1 or 2 good games since being back in the fray for City.

Tuchel's an elite manager, wont care about big names, he's also someone that understands the importance of leaders and good characters in the teams hence the inclusion on Henderson, Henderson is worth his place for that alone, to keep all the young players in check, you could see by that tense press conference when he as Ajax alone, dealing single handedly with all those journalist mugs, that he was a leader of me and why he captain of Liverpool.

Kind Regards.

Overated tbf…

Definitely a big time charlie, well done Tuchel, see it through

Rotation is the word

If Tommy wants them for big games he's playing ball.

Two things need to happen for Ingerlund to win the world cup.
1) Jude Bell£nd needs to be nowhere near the plane,
2) Kane has to accept the national team is not his benefit xi and that he wont play every minute of every match.

Worryingly it looks Tommy Teepee has worked this out....

Let’s hope he doesn’t make it bad

forget city,s home games
in their only treal game gooners away,fodden looked like a 10 yr old in the playground hoping the big kids would give him a kick
grealish has crossed a few balls for Everton and MSM/pundits would have us believe their ripping every game up as though their messi, compared to some of b,mouth,palace,s,land etc players, for their standing in game their doing next to nothing

Liverpool fans don’t like him because he didn’t want to go there.

Kane should have been put out to grass for England by now, yesterday's news and time to move on.

I've seen Grealish up close several times and apart from his Villa spell he has been hugely overrated.

Tuchell needs to sort this puzzle out.

Plenty of decent attacking players but he needs build a team

Lampard and Gerrard? The answer was Scholes!

Kane would still be the first name on the team sheet for me. The ultimate pro who can still find the goal better than any other player we could choose.

I cannot fault him either. He used to drop deep too much but now we have creative players. Feed the monkey!

The only thing  he lacks is pace, which, at international level is a big thing.

Teddy Sheringham

It was baffling him dropping so deep. And taking corners.

His ego is greater than his talent. A trouble maker for sure.

His ego is greater than his talent. A trouble maker for sure.

I don't think so. I think he is a winner and the real deal. He needs to understand what team means and this will do him good. Tuchell needs to find a system and play his best players in their correct positions

As said before the answer to the question Lampard or Gerrard was in reality Scholes!

Gerrard talking about how the players didn't get on due
to club rivalry

Yep, we all knew, but great to confess now.

Whadabout Gary neville speaking up too...

England will never will another World cup as the money coming from certain companies has ruined the game you cant just turn it on when you feel like it. Brazil league has put a stop Brazil winning it for 25 years .They d rather take the money.

Kane should be yesterday's man by now, he slows the build ups, but there's not a better finisher unfortunately
As stringy says, Teddy Sheringham was exactly the same, no pace but quality player
We are about 3 or 4 players short of competing in next year's World Cup with Spain for eg, imo

These are the teams that lost the final game at the last few major tournaments, 2014 is the 2nd group game v Uruguay, as we were already KO'd by the third game, so put out 2nd string. Bolded years were lost on pens.

1996: Seaman-Pearce-Adams-Southgate-Anderton-Gascoigne-Ince-McManaman-Platt-Shearer-Sheringham
1998: Seaman-Neville-Adams-Campbell-Beckham-Anderton-Ince-Le Saux-Scholes-Owen-Shearer
2000: Martyn-Neville-Campbell-Keown-P.Neville-Bechkam-Scholes-Ince-Wise-Shearer-Owen
2002: Seaman-Mills-Campbell-Ferdinand-Cole-Beckham-Scholes-Butt-Sinclair-Owen-Heskey
2004: James-Neville-Campbell-Terry-Cole-Beckham-Scholes-Lampard-Owen-Rooney
2006: Robinson-Neville-Terry-Ferdinand-Cole-Beckham-Lampard-Hargreaves-Gerrard-J.Cole-Rooney
2010: James-Johnson-Terry-Upson-Cole-Milner-Barry-Lampard-Gerrard-Rooney-Defoe
2012: Hart-Johnson-Terry-Lescott-Cole-Milner-Gerrard-Parker-Young-Rooney-Welbeck
2014: Hart-Johnson-Jagielka-Cahill-Baines-Sterling-Henderson-Gerrard-Rooney-Welbeck-Sturridge
2016: Hart-Walker-Smalling-Cahill-Rose-Sterling-Alli-Dier-Rooney-Kane-Sturridge
2018: Pickford-Walker-Maguire-Stones-Trippier-Alli-Henderson-Lingard-Young-Sterling-Kane
2020: Pickford-Walker-Maguire-Stones-Trippier-Phillips-Rice-Shaw-Sterling-Mount-Kane
2022: Picford-Walker-Maguire-Stones-Shaw-Saka-Henderson-Rice-Bellingham-Foden-Kane
2024: Pickford-Walker-Stones-Guehi-Shaw-Saka-Mainoo-Rice-Bellingham-Foden-Kane


I always felt like whenever we were knocked out of a major tournament, that we were not so much overrun, but did not have enough water carrier minded players in the front 6 and way too many individual stars putting the side out of balance which spawns the often trotted out analysis of past failed generations as not being cohesive enough comparison to whoever it is we lost too. Look at that 2004 team, ridiculous, no defensive midfielder whatsoever.

The other most notable thing is how slow we were to drop a second striker to gain more control of matches with an extra body in midfield. Apart from 2006, it wasn't until Southgate came in and played just one up top did England start to look like a much more balanced side and far more cohesive then ever before. People laughed at Southgate for saying England struggled without Phillips in the 2024 Euro's but given how he played for England, a defensive midfield duo with Rice, you could see what he meant, Mainoo wasn't the same player type.

2014 and 2016 under Roy more ridiculous line-ups, essentially 3 strikers being played even if he was asking Rooney to play deeper. Square pegs, round holes.

I was always a big fan of Owen Hargreaves, mugs derided his calls ups because they were clueless, but he was world class at what he did as a defensive mid, yet Sven had him in the bench in that Portugal game in 2004 because he was too scared at the time to drop Owen or Lampard to make way, 2 years later nothing changed, Hargreaves on the bench again for the first 2 group games, brings him in for the 3rd for Gerrard as we'd already qualified so he gave him a run out, then Michael Owen done his cruciate and Hargreaves started the knockouts, but only at first as a right back v Ecuador then finally started a proper game in his proper position v Portugal but by then it was too late to have built up understanding with the other players in the team, rhythm, match fitness, etc. Also daft how Sven made Beckham captain, as if he was ever a leader of men, you had players like John Terry, Campbell, Lampard and Gerrard in the team at the time ffs, can you imagine them all sitting down in the dressing listening to his squeaky nasally voice giving a big speech and being engaged and gripped by it, he was not a man of words, it was poor leadership by the manager. R.I.P though and all that.

Before we started getting to finals, the teams knocking us all, albeit a lot times on pens, had more players willing to do more donkey work then ours did in centre midfield, Kleberson/Silva 2002, Costinha/Maniche 2004, De Rossi/Marcshio 2012, Rabiot/Tchouameni in 2022m we were practically all out attack.

At last we have an elite level manager who knows what he's doing, who's proven, Southgate took us so far but he's never a won a trophy in his life of any meaning, Tuchel's won the Champions League. He also understands the value of the intangibles such as leadership and characters hence Jordan's Henderson's call up to the bemusement of nearly every fan, but he understands you need people like him to keep big time charlies like Bellingham in check, characters like Henderson are invaluable and worth his place on the plane to the US OF A for that alone.

I would like to see Rice and Anderson starting together next year, with Foden in the hole, at he's best nobody's better.

Just to go off on a slight tangent.

One thing that has always slightly irritating is these journalist mugs who try to pass the blame onto the fans, I remember that mug Mark Ogden citing "It's coming home" being trotted out endlessly by fans at every tournament as English arrogance, when it fact it is people like him in the media who are responsible for nonsense like that, how many over the top, sensationalist headlines like that have you seen over the years from the tabloid press trying to ramp up sales? How many headlines such as 'E.A.S.Y (England/Algeria/Slovenia/Yanks)' have you seen, that was England's group one year and that's the headline they had. Luka Modric talking about arrogance of the press that he and other Croat players were reading from England before the 2018 semi final, and it motivated them. They tried to derail England's world cup by dressing up as Fake Sheikhs to lure Sven to a meeting to offer him a job that didn't exist just before the first game to maximise revenue from the headlines that generated, sabotaged Hodgson's first presser in charge of England when you could see he was pleased as punch to be there, but because they didn't manager to get their man 'Arry into the job, they just bombarded Roy with questions such as "why did you play football in South Africa during Apartheid" FFS, when the press guy said Roy commanded respect around the world in every dressing room, the press guys...went around to all the international dressing rooms asking if they'd heard of Roy Hodgson, they then set up Sam Allardyce after a few drinks to say things he shouldn't and got him the sack after one game, these parasites don't want England to be successful, they want to further their own careers and bulge their own pockets.

All fans get excitable and it's coming home is just a catchy little song that even the Germans were singing on their bus on the way to the game at Wembley at Euro 96 according to Klinsmann, nothing arrogant about it. Thankfully Old Media such as the gutter tabloid press and it's like have become far less important and prevalent when it comes to the influence upon the thinking of the general public as their sales have dramatically declined over the years, thanks New Media i.e, mass media/social media/podcasts etc. They've deserted fleet street in recent years and up sticks to Wapping (East London) but they might as well have moved to Wyoming as their days of controlling narratives are over and the negativity they generated has gone with it.




Kind Regards.

Hargreaves was England's best player in 2006 WC. Maybe not saying much.

2004 team you've got 10 players..Gerrard I guess was the nominated holding MF as such though probably with some intended taking of turns when the moment allowed..certainly not well balanced but Stevie G could be an effective '6' in modern speak..

yeah it was Gerrard, Gerrard much like Rice today, would be waste as a 6 imo with his talent, Moyes had Rice playing 6 mostly at West Ham and was clearly stifling his talent, Hargreaves in 2004 was sitting on the bench, should have started with Lampard dropped as good as he was, didn't Portugal have Rui Costa on the bench for a DM at a time when he was at AC Milan that won the league that year. Cruyff once said "Choose the best player for every position, and you’ll end up not with a strong XI, but with 11 strong 1’s", I think that was the case a lot of times under Sven, don't know why I ranted about the media, nothing to with the thread. Kind Regards.

Yep, I always felt Lamps should have been on the bench when everyone available..I'm sure plenty of Chelsea fans would disagree..

that 04 team was a headache with Scholes shoe horned in on the left for the most part as well..

If the noughties teams had Carrick in instead of Lampard they'd have had a good chance.

yep, Carrick didn't play as much as he should have for England 34 caps spanning 14 years !...

didn't have the natural combativeness of a typical dmf but just played the position with a lot of smarts and use of the ball from deep was exceptional (often simple but very much had the more progressive passes in the locker as well)

Rice is probably our best player, and he is
good enough to play as a 6,or in a double pivot.

But might well be even better further forward

Problem becomes who plays behind him.

Or of course who plays in front of him.

Is Palmer not better than Foden,... Very close.

Saka on right, kane in middle, and I'd go grealish on left.

Anderson not ready, but getting there

The problem we have no is too many talented creatives..Belingham, Palmer, Foden, Eze, Roger’s.

Why move Rice into that congested area?

Maybe Rice and Anderson together would be the way to go.

Decide on one 10, another to challenge him and a third as the understudy

We have sufficient wide men Saka, Eze, Madueke, Rashford with the likes of Grealish in the mix.

We do not have another centre forward. Watkins was ok for me.

Yeah, it's a question of getting the best combination
rather than just picking best individuals.

And getting players who are happy to swap positions
and rotate and also be impact players from bench.

Gonna be so hot in USA it'll be a 16 man game.

Ivan Toney is a decent 3rd striker, if he wants to take 3.

all ye need to know is: England are always underpriced

Lampard actually scored in 3 out of the 4 games England played in Euro 2004 (as well as in the pen shootout).

Therefore i'm not sure replacing him with Carrick or any other DM would have given us a better outcome in that tournament.

The best game Gerrard ever played was the Istanbul ucl final, where he played on the left in the second half.
Seems a pretty obvious solution in hindsight.

Impossible to know Dixie,

England couldn't keep the ball well enough against either France or Portugal in that tournament (and indeed most tournaments), Sven also went very defensive in the later stages of those games trying to hold on for 1-0's both times..

they may have been better served with a different option in there -  if Gerrard (or Scholes) had played the CMF with more licence maybe they've have matched his goal output or added assists, a Carrick might have improved ball retention..
Lampard was a very decent player so it's certainly not intended as a slight on him but I think that there is a case for the balance of the side not being quite right.

Drop Lampard for Hargreaves, you prevent more goals going in.

The space Lampard occupied will be for Gerrard and Scholes to operate in.

There was just no balance in Sven's teams most of the time. He was a people pleaser and just tried to get the best individuals in rather than who was best for the side, how he made Beckham captain I've no idea, he was never a leader of men, likes of Terry were for more natural captains and orators.

Kind Regards.

What I like about Tuchell is is has let the ego’s know.

I do think Bellingham is absolute top drawer and we should be building a team around him. What I mean is we will need players like him to win something. I thought Rogers was fantastic on Thursday and could easily cover for Bellingham but.

I liked the axis of Anderson and Rice. Rice might be a better player, experienced and a great reader of the game but Anderson is more effective with getting the ball forward quickly.

I think Sven was too close to his players. Tuchell has put the team front and centre. How does Bellingham get back into that starting xl? He better start playing some good football for Madrid or he won’t be starting for England.

If Tuchel's Mutti is picking the team, will she revert to the 3-5-2 system that saw Germany win Euro 96, Dortmund win the 97 Champs League and Schalke win the 97 UEFA cup?

Dortmund won the CL in 97 because Paul Lambert bossed the midfield and marked Zidane out the game, according to Scottish legend.

Germany won Euro 96 because Gazza was too fat and carried too much timber to have been able to stretch that bit further as the ball trickled across the goal line - along with some England players bottling taking a pen before Southgate.

Incidentally, Jim White announced Gazza will be in the studio on Monday as he has a new book out, to which Jordan replied "what a colouring book", WAC.

Kind Regards.

Don't think Gascoigne should be making any plans exceeding 24 hours

I firmly believe Rice is England's best player.  The one we would miss the most.

The storyline for the United States, Canada and Mexico now revolves around the competition for places, which could yet be England’s biggest weapon.

further emphasised a developing meritocracy, too, with club status no longer enough to seize a shirt. There was no starter from Chelsea, Liverpool or Man United for the first time since 1992.

absence of Jude Bellingham, with Phil Foden, Cole Palmer, Jack Grealish, Reece James and the skipper Harry Kane, among others, also absent.

But if there was a moment to summarise England’s dominance, it was Rogers, dropping into a deeper area and displaying close control, strength and balance to fend off the overmatched Liam Cullen, who nibbled a few times before conceding a foul. Rogers’ increasing prominence now makes Bellingham and Palmer’s presence in the starting line-up a doubt for the foreseeable future, illustrating a rare luxury for Tuchel.

not sure what game people were watching if  they thought Morgan   was fantastic on Thurs night ,he was basically 3 out of 10 against a pub team compared to a 9 out of 10 in a tough away game in Serbia, had 3 shots 6 yds out, scored 1, miskicked 1 in to keepers arms and missed target with the other,other than that he had 30 yd sideways grappling contest with 3 players ,going nowhere 50 yds from goal  and eventually got a free kick as they all fell over, and that was it

I thought he showed some great touches, held the ball well under pressure and linked play well.

Who would you pick in the 10 out of Bellingham, Palmer, Roger’s or Foden?

Personally I would choose Bellingham with Roger’s as his understudy. I would have Palmer on the bench as the possible game changer. If Foden  recovers his form he is in the squad if there is room. Eze does not make it as a 10 but is on my bench or starts at 11.

The only issue for me is now 11. Centre backs are sorted.Full backs will be sorted soon. I like Rice and Anderson in tandem. Watkins understudy’s Kane. I think Madueke is decent but I prefer Eze. The manager likes Rashford. I am not sure Gordon is ready.

I think we have a decent team. The chips will fall. All we can do is put our best team out. I trust Tuchell to do that.

I'd start Palmer all being fit and in form.

Bellingham just doesn't get involved enough for me, and loves
Hollywooding the last 10 minutes. Easy solution, start him on bench.

Tuchel has a great football brain, so I think he's working on them all
constantly.

Spain are a good team, and we don't seem able to match them, so
will need Tommy to out think them or pickford to have a blinder.

England fanboys like battered wives, the next one will definitely be different.

I think England are shaping up pretty well. Maybe not World beaters but should be able to put up a good show.

Heat, the draw, fate.

Who is the best side? How on earth did we get so close in the last 3 tournaments..... oh yeah...the most important thing....luck!

I agree, Mellingham has not been effective for England for some time. Good in tournaments though.

There is no me in team.........?

Tuchell must complete the jigsaw. Who knows how it looks now or next year?

team

Exactly!

The saying is 'I' - there is no I in team

No sheite Sherlock?

Well I never!

Gotta edjamacate some of you gooners

On Bellingham, he is our best, but his ego is way ahead of him. Should look at Jose and how his ego has sunk him

It is a problem / conundrum for sure. We need to get the best out of him. If not we have other players.

T = TOGETHER

  E = EVERYONE

  A = ACHIEVES

  M = MORE 

no charge for that one

T = OTTENHAM
E - ASY
A - WAY
M - ATCH

Just for the record I am fully aware there is no me in team

He’s just going through a tough spell

FWIW,
It's not about the  "best players" , I think.
( yes of course you want the best players on side)
But it's all about the "best team".
It worked for Alf Ramsey.

I believe what people have been saying about players taking their club rivalries into these games, how can they not?
Tuchal is challenging the EGOs to can it and be part of the team, like it or not, they need each other if they're going win anything.

Absolutely

I do think he is growing that team spirit and the thing is Bellingham does that have that ability to encourage and pull the team along with with him. People forget he is a young man and highly testosteroned. I think it is a good idea that Henderson is in the squad and maybe he can help the likes of Bellingham and others.

I can’t get the image out of my mind of when Bellingham scored during the world cup to keep them in it. After the game he was bigging it up along the touchline to the crowd. He passes the England bench and there is Saka basically sneering at him.

I don’t remember that but it cannot go on if correct. Better to cut the cancer out and I am a fan of his!

It wasn’t mentioned at all in the media but after the tournament there were rumours that he was not popular in the squad. Playing for Real Madrid doesn’t help, Ronaldo turned into a complete cnt only when he went there.

It was apparently because he wouldn't do his fair share of media duties, and who could blame him, never bothered Scholes or Ashley Cole. Don't know why they have to do media work anyway, their born to play football, no football fan would ever give a monkeys if their favourite footballer never said a word, as long as they played well every week but the media will tell you how important it is to 'communicate', translation, please give us some clickbait headlines. Kind Regards.

pictures paint a 1000 words at euros in one game you could see when Jude got subbed he was trying to give the big high 5 down the bench and at least 4 or 5 subs just blanked him,throwing his arms at sgate during the etc,it was obvious to a blind man Jude was an unsettling influence on that squad, maybe Kane and other senior players passed their thoughts on to TUCH if were asked when he 1stgot job,or maybe TUCH just saw what we all saw at the euro,s, and Jude been Injured ,out of form,just give TUCH the chance to see if he could manage without him which Southgate had obviously decided he couldn't/wouldn't