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Tiger Tiger
13 Jul 21 19:01
Joined:
Date Joined: 14 Jul 09
| Topic/replies: 24,616 | Blogger: Tiger Tiger's blog
.................so why not try 'bigotry'


Scottish nationalism. It was meant to be different from all other nationalisms. Civic and joyous we were told, not bigoted, bitter or twisted. How’s that going today?

I write this on the Sunday afternoon before the biggest football match faced by any British national team since the 1966 World Cup final 55 years ago. You know the one I mean – when England beat West Germany 4-2.

I cannot tell what the result has been by the time you read this column but I can imagine many Scots will be either crying into their cornflakes, having drawn the curtains, turned off all forms of incoming communications – be it the wireless, television, smart speaker or smartphone – to avoid any mention of England winning the 2020 Euros – or, alternatively, be pouring themselves a glass of Prosecco and munching on a piece of cold pizza from the night before while contemplating how to wind-up any English people they know or, just as importantly to them, as many they don’t know and will never meet.

Yes, we are here again, the moment when the most dominant emotion of our Scottish psyche might be schadenfreude – the taking of pleasure from the misfortune of others. It is a thoroughly unattractive trait and we should be honest with ourselves and admit we too easily embrace it – especially in regard to England and anything English.

From the outside looking in, Scots taking the position of “Anyone But England” (ABE) is embarrassing, it displays a childish ignorance and petulance; a mean-spirited closed mind that is well balanced only because the bearer has a chip on both shoulders.

It is tempting to believe levels of

Scottish hatred towards England and the English is worse than ever due to Tartan Army chanting in Leicester Square, what has been appearing on social media and the abominable front page of a proindependence newspaper that presented the Italian team manager in Braveheart rig-out and pleaded with him to save us from an English victory.

Some Scots might have chosen to support Italy because it was their “second team” after Scotland – due to an association with the country through a relative, or friends, or ancestry – while others might admire their style of play.

Fair enough.

But if they have simply chosen Italy after having supported first Germany and then Denmark against England during the knockout stages that Scotland failed to reach, then that is surely the beginnings of bigotry.

Predictably, the volume of the prematch hype has been turned up to 11 ( just as it would be whichever home nation might have reached the final) while the Prime Minister has been photographed outside Downing Street standing on a giant English flag almost the size of the street. (I’ll let you into a secret, Boris would have done the same for the Scottish or Welsh teams if they were the finalists – it’s about votes.)

Some Scots like to blame the English commentators for a certain arrogance or bias but that surely is just a veil for denying one’s prejudices. Most commentators see it as their job to whip up the emotions and undoubtedly get carried away when it comes to a national football match after a season of work when they are not allowed to show any preference for domestic teams playing each other.

As a Hibs supporter I’m used to

commentators wanting to talk only about Celtic or Rangers (even if they are not playing), just as the English variety might want to talk about 1966, or Gordon Banks’ save from Pele in 1970 or Paul Gascoigne’s goal against Scotland in 1996.

It is all chaff of no consequence and has nothing to do with the hopes, dreams and fears of the players pulling on their national strip and having the privilege of playing for their country – no matter where in the world that is.

I’ve watched many a Scotland v England game, and followed England’s trials and tribulations in the tournaments they have qualified for, and what used to be friendly competitive banter has grown over the last few decades to define us as sour and mean-spirited. During the last World Cup I lived in France and when the French reached the final the locals were moved to tears that us British ex-pats cheered them on.

In current circumstances, with lockdowns meaning limited realworld social interactions, we are left with social media to observe and judge how people are behaving and unsurprisingly I’ve found accentuated attitudes. People putting Italian tricolours on their Twitter profiles (having replaced the German and then Danish flags) and openly making some blood and soil comments about England-supporting Scots being deported after independence.

Thankfully that has in turn disgusted some Scots (including some pro-independence voters) who have responded by “coming-out” as England supporters and defending their choice.

The perception I take is that there is actually a fightback against ABE that’s more visible this time. Scots are, more than I have seen previously, professing support for England, because they are our neighbours, our friends or on this occasion, the underdogs. (I know England enjoyed home advantage but it has been 55 years, remember, and in that time Italy has won two World Cups, and the Euros once.)

If we unionists and nationalists alike want to be civic and joyous then cheer on our own team, be it local or national, and applaud good play by opponents – and sing our national anthem – but don’t boo the opposition’s.

Schadenfreude is ugly. It demeans us. It’s time to drop it and move on. Brian Monteith is editor of Thinkscotland.org and served in the Scottish and European Parliaments for the Conservative and Brexit Parties respectively.

Excellent article.
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Report Alias July 13, 2021 7:22 PM BST
1. England were favs for the final, not underdogs.
2. Monteith is a right wing Tory. 'nuff said.

PS The article is nonsense, a thinly veiled dig at SNP/Scotgov. Typical Tory.
Report dave1357 July 13, 2021 7:23 PM BST
we can't spell but we can smell bullsh-t
Report sofiakenny July 13, 2021 7:25 PM BST
tigger..Harry Kane says that the England team don't want fans like you.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 13, 2021 7:31 PM BST
It's good to have strong
Anglo Scottish rivalry.

Tis pity that Scotland have fallen
behind football wise.

The rugby teams are competitive
at the mo, I have no schadenfreude
for their football decline, and
sincerely hope they regain their
place at footballs top table

Then we can recommence rivallry
properly again.
Report Wallflower July 13, 2021 7:48 PM BST
What a load of toshAngry.  "During the last World Cup I lived in France and when the French reached the final the locals were moved to tears that us British ex-pats cheered them on".  ,,,,,    and if you believe that made-up nonsense...whatever

Simple f*ckin' question remains unanswered to my mind.  Why should Scots support England? Don't know of one single reason and never heard an even semi-convincing one either.
Report Wallflower July 13, 2021 7:50 PM BST
....  anyway - its too much fun - and I mean decades of it - cheering against EnglandHappy. Wouldn't give up on one life's great pleasures.
Report kincsem July 13, 2021 9:13 PM BST
Does anyone else think all this talk about Scots and Irish being mean-spirited in not supporting England is ridiculous?
I am Irish.  When Ireland are playing I do not expect English fans to support Ireland.
There is no connection between Ireland and England.  That was dissolved one hundred years ago.

Why would Scots support England?  They support their own team.
If fans of other countries laugh at England's football misfortunes it is because of:
incessant reminders of football events more than half a century ago
outlandish claims about the team and players being world class
claims of the unfairness of penalty shoot-outs and how unlucky England are

The countdown to the final on Sky TV lasted days, longer than all the NASA space program countdowns added together
Report ffaith July 13, 2021 9:38 PM BST
The scots used to produce ball players by the boat load.  They are now s hit.   Their excuse is that they have a small population(bigger than uruguay or croatia I think).  Maybe if they spent less time navel grazing at the sassanachs and got back to basics they would improve
Report HallGreenSpy July 13, 2021 10:18 PM BST
There is no connection between Ireland and England.

Have to disagree there. Plenty of Irish people have made England their home and vice versa. Pretty big connection imo.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 13, 2021 10:31 PM BST
Ireland matches tend to get
covered in uk, most folk seem
delighted when they are going well.

Theyve lost a fair few that
Jack charlton would have had
signed up when managing.

Maybe I see things differently
as Newcastle has always seemed
to have had a good Irish community
in the city.

I miss an Irish passport by one generation
on dad's side, and by 2 on mams!
Report thelatarps July 13, 2021 11:47 PM BST
Thats all very well.

But the simple fact is that the england mens national football team are utterly NAFF.
I mean.
WHo really wants to be associated with such a bunch of total losers?
The bald facts are that there are 5 super powers in european football.
France 2 World cups 2 Euros
Germany 4 Worl cups 3 Euros
Italy 4 World cups 2 Euros
Spain 1 World cup 3 Euros
and dear old Ingerlund just the solitary success with the help of a bent ref in the argy match and a bent linesman in the final.

Its absolutely flucking risible, you simply have to laugh at the scale of underachievement.
They surely must be the biggest LOSERS in the whole wide world of sports.
Think about the cricket world champions. The rugby world champions. THe dozens of major golf champions. The F1 world champions. Fluck me weve even won wimbledon and the tour de france.. What must the couple of hundred olympic gold medallists make of it?

Youve got the best bunch of players assembled since the halcyon days under Ramsey. You played all your games at home. Watching the Italy game after 15 mins I thought 'theyre going to win this 3 or 4 nil'. But  no you shrank back into your shell and capitulated.

And the flucking triumphalism. The 'footballs coming home' arrogance. The majority and it is a majority of England supporters who turn from decent citizens into Mr Hyde when their team plays. Trashing Leicester sq ffs. Bum rushing the stewards at Wembley. And guess what.. You are still going to bid for the 2030 World cup, after that sh!t show.
This Monteith geezer banging on about socttish schadenfreude. Really?
Schadenfreude? After the way the ENglish have carried on this past month. Jeez Louise.
You simply can not blame any Scot who has a laugh at it all.

It gives me no pleassure to write this.
England is a serious football nation. You got the likes of Liv, Chels, Utd winning the Euro cup on a regular basis. And believe me that beating the likes of Real, Barca and Bayern is a much  tougher task than beating a bunch of thrown together international teams.
With the success of the EPL there is an enormous amount of goodwill for england fc. Asians, Africans, Americans all of them follow england. Second only to Brazil in terms on international popularity.
Yet the english let themselves down time and again.
Its happened so often you just have to laugh.
Out or pity if nothing else.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 14, 2021 12:05 AM BST
Past month

That chip sounds a lifetime
in the making and getting heavier
Report lfc1971 July 14, 2021 7:23 AM BST
The Scots getting a few home truths here , good to see it not that it’ll do them any good
Report LoyalHoncho July 14, 2021 7:57 AM BST
The guy is a well-known rsshole.
Report JC1326 July 14, 2021 8:40 AM BST
So just your typical Scot then
Report Timber July 14, 2021 8:59 AM BST

Jul 13, 2021 -- 7:50PM, Wallflower wrote:


....

Report Timber July 14, 2021 8:59 AM BST
Wallflower

If that's one of life's great pleasures, you ought to pop over to Switzerland and call it a day
ABSOLUTELY pathetic bawbag
Report Timber July 14, 2021 9:00 AM BST
I'm sure most of the sweaty toothless wonders on here must be in prison
Report thelatarps July 14, 2021 9:14 AM BST
Thank you honcho. COming from you I will take that as a compliment.
Getting criticism off a mor0n, I just know I am right.
Report Pilsudski July 14, 2021 9:39 AM BST
That’s how it is,Mr Monteith. And quite rightly so.
Report lfc1971 July 14, 2021 9:45 AM BST
The Scots ears are too delicate to listen to any criticism ,mr Monteith  so they prefer to attack the messenger
But they should be told and quite rightly so it’s good for them
Report lfc1971 July 14, 2021 9:56 AM BST
The English enjoy the rivalry and banter it’s all part of it
But that’s not the point the op is making
Report Wallflower July 14, 2021 10:28 AM BST
Timber 14 Jul 21 07:59 
Wallflower

If that's one of life's great pleasures, you ought to pop over to Switzerland and call it a day
ABSOLUTELY pathetic bawbag

-------------------------------------------

Listen plank or whatever you're name is - its only one of the hundreds of life's great pleasures. There are many, and I'm very thankful that life is and has been good so I can enjoy them.

You should try and enjoy yourself more - cheer you heart out for / against Scotland, Wales, Ireland if it gives you pleasure, up to you. This perpetual state of an anger and annoyance you seem to be in is a waste of energy.

Anyway, back to work, these buttons don't press themselves you knowHappy
Report lfc1971 July 14, 2021 10:39 AM BST
No wonder the countries in a mess of that’s what we call work now , lol
Report kincsem July 14, 2021 10:49 AM BST
Expectations might be raised by the good Euro result.
"playing at home is worth a lead of two thirds of a goal per game" Why England Lose, Kuper and Szymanski (2009)
Report lfc1971 July 14, 2021 10:59 AM BST
The England team isn’t very good I’m afraid . The friendly games before the tournament were a shambles
In the tournament itself at least half the team shouldn’t have been there ...at least probably more than that
Report lfc1971 July 14, 2021 11:05 AM BST
Rice , Philipps , Mount , Saka, Sancho , Henderson, Pickford , Stones , Trippier ,Sterling
None of these should have been in the team for a start
Report lfc1971 July 14, 2021 11:07 AM BST
Average players, in some cases very average
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 14, 2021 11:28 AM BST
France won World Cup in 1998

Leaving out Ginola and cantona

But playing Stéphane Guivarc'h

Who'd have done that?

One game in world cup he started
and was subbed off for Thierry henry,
Another for dugarry, and twice
for trezeget

Lol
Report penzance July 14, 2021 11:28 AM BST
Rice,Phillips,Pickford and Stones played well all
tournament.Laugh
Report lfc1971 July 14, 2021 11:41 AM BST
They were average - and that’s being generous
Report lfc1971 July 14, 2021 11:43 AM BST
None of them are international standard , ok club players
Report lfc1971 July 14, 2021 11:44 AM BST
In the first div maybe not the premier
Report oor wullie July 14, 2021 12:50 PM BST
Was at Haydock park one day when Scotland were playing the faroe islands , the track announcer gave the half time score faroes 2 scotland 0 and the roar from the crowd was deafening so it obviously cuts both ways.
Report LoyalHoncho July 16, 2021 4:18 PM BST
Laugh
thelatarps    14 Jul 21 08:14
I was referring to the man Monteith but if the shoe fits feel free to wear it.
Black Sabbath and Paranoid your fav. LP?
And, exchange every "Scottish" for "English" in his phoney, deeply pained, I have to preserve my forthcoming Westminster pension narrative and we have the same story in reverse.
Downing Street British totally festooned in English flags to the exclusion of all else, not even a Union Jack?!   Laugh  Laugh  Laugh 
Not even a pretence at displaying any form of Union!!!!  lmao.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 16, 2021 4:22 PM BST
I'd guess nobody cared about the funny score
until it was announced at races.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 16, 2021 4:23 PM BST
The punters were not all dressed
as tutankamon, or rameses
Report oor wullie July 16, 2021 8:10 PM BST
What does that even mean? Wolves in champions league semi final and cheered on by West brom fans i think not.
Report oor wullie July 16, 2021 8:11 PM BST
Basically no big deal,sporting rivalry et al.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 16, 2021 8:15 PM BST
Sporting rivalry is great

We've already said that, eng v scot
great rivals.

Pretty sure it's on this thread too.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 16, 2021 8:16 PM BST
| reportblock user
----you-have-to-laugh---
----you-have-to-laugh---13 Jul 21 18:31Joined: 06 Jul 10 | Topic/replies: 21,624 | Blogger: ----you-have-to-laugh---'s blog
It's good to have strong
Anglo Scottish rivalry.

Tis pity that Scotland have fallen
behind football wise.

The rugby teams are competitive
at the mo, I have no schadenfreude
for their football decline, and
sincerely hope they regain their
place at footballs top table

Then we can recommence rivallry
properly again.
Report hello :-) July 16, 2021 10:00 PM BST
it was written by a tory Laugh

embrace the rivalry , its the lifesblood of sport
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