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trader12345
13 Dec 20 13:02
Joined:
Date Joined: 27 Nov 11
| Topic/replies: 32 | Blogger: trader12345's blog
My account turned to -367 E. I was trading AFC soccer game with disallowed goal with profit 180 E, now my account is cleared out -367 E. WTF is this?
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Report Angoose December 13, 2020 2:08 PM GMT
Surprised
Report trader12345 December 13, 2020 3:25 PM GMT
Can anybody advice me what to do? Communication with BF agents is terrible. They have no idea what I am talking about. In Ulsan Hyundai Horang-i v Kobe game I layed Kobe team after their second goal at 1.04 and 1.05. Then market went suspended and second goal was disallowed. Immediately I closed this selection at 1.35 and BF was showing me profit 180 E. After the game was closed I get this profit. Couple of hours later my account turned into -367 E and I wasnt able to make any bet. In betting history I can see many bets voided for this game resulting in huge loss because laying at 1.04/1.05 has let me operate with big sum that hedged the market. And because Kobe lost I lost all my balance + remaining 367 E. My point is that BF SUSPENDED MARKET INCORRECTY and it was showing me profit that after later voids resulted in huge loss. If I know whats gonna happen I wound not hedge for profit. I am totally upset and frustrated that this is not my fault.
Report Angoose December 13, 2020 3:32 PM GMT
They do respond if you make contact via Twitter, you may not get the answer you want, but you will get an answer.
I have successfully got them to change an initial decision, but it required a lot of persistence.

In my case, they voided bets that had been matched during the half time breaks.
They reluctantly settled in my favour on both occasions, both being winners in the overs market.
Report trader12345 December 13, 2020 3:35 PM GMT
conversation finished like this:

Yes the market was settled incorrectly and as it is the exchange it had to be amended. The punter is liable for the exchange bets. You used the money from the incorrectly settled market.
I am sorry and understand your side but I am just relaying the information as is

You at 16:08, Dec 13:
But it is not my fault market was settled incorrectly.
Read
Ryan at 16:11, Dec 13:

Yes but it is the punters responsibility to be aware of their bets. The market had to be resettled this is the reason for the account minus.
Report Angoose December 13, 2020 3:36 PM GMT
If you keep pushing, it will get escalated and you'll enter an e-mail exchange.
Report trader12345 December 13, 2020 3:45 PM GMT
Yes I ll thank you.
Report Giuseppe December 13, 2020 4:03 PM GMT
goal is scored. let's call this "time point 1"

this goal is disallowed. let's call this "time point 2"

any bets matched between "time point 1" and "time point 2" are (usually) voided quite quickly

you didn't need to "close the position" on those 1.04 lays

they were going to be voided (becasue you made them between "time point 1 and time point 2"

yes, betfair should have voided those bets quickly.

whether you have a legal case, i don't know.

this whole VR thing is a nightmare for betfair.
Report Giuseppe December 13, 2020 4:07 PM GMT
what i mean is, "it was not necessary" to close your selection (as you call it)

these types of bets (the 1.04 lays) are always voided, if the goal is disallowed
Report Giuseppe December 13, 2020 4:10 PM GMT
in this new VAR world, the goal doesn't count until the players kick off again from the centre circle
Report trader12345 December 13, 2020 4:13 PM GMT
the problem is BF voided them after the match . After suspend nothing was voided I was seeing profit so I took it. Laying bets was voided but not my big back one.
Report trader12345 December 13, 2020 4:17 PM GMT
2 agents consulting with managers gave me same reply, they can do nothing. If I want to continue use my account I have to deposit. NO WAY! I closed my account after 12 years.
Report Giuseppe December 13, 2020 4:19 PM GMT
the lay bet was made between "time point 1" and "time point 2"

these bets are ***always*** voided. if betfair don't void them immediately, they will void them later, including after the game if necessary.

the back bet was not made between "time point 1" and "time point 2"

this bet was never going to be voided. why would they void it?
Report trader12345 December 13, 2020 4:22 PM GMT
I understand but these lay bets has to be voided immediately. If I see the correct balance I can react appropriately.
Report trader12345 December 13, 2020 4:29 PM GMT
Is there any viable alternative to BF?
Report Giuseppe December 13, 2020 4:33 PM GMT
I've been away from betfair for a while and recently returned, so I had to get familiar with the VAR situation.

betfair clearly have a policy of voiding all these bets, i got caught out once too.

now i don't place any bets during this "interval" period between goal being scored and players kicking off.

i wonder why the don't leave the market suspended until players kick off from the centre circle?

presumably this has been discussed on here before. is there a reason?
Report Angoose December 13, 2020 4:38 PM GMT
They are not consistent with their treatment, likely simply as a result of operator indifference.
Report trader12345 December 13, 2020 4:39 PM GMT
Exactly, market suspended all the time until there are no doubts about correct score.
Report Angoose December 13, 2020 4:39 PM GMT
Contrast what happens here with, for example, B365, and it is a world of difference.
Report Giuseppe December 13, 2020 4:40 PM GMT
i imagine the policy is to void all these bets

if the operator forgets or makes an error, this is rectified, sometimes after the match
Report trader12345 December 13, 2020 4:43 PM GMT
Anyway I have enough of their arrogance, incompetence and the highest commission. Do you have experience with ****, Smarkets or Matchbook?
Report Angoose December 13, 2020 4:44 PM GMT

Dec 13, 2020 -- 10:40AM, Giuseppe wrote:


i imagine the policy is to void all these betsif the operator forgets or makes an error, this is rectified, sometimes after the match


You are correct, the rules are clear, but that doesn't excuse the shoddy execution.
Their standards have been on the slide for some time.

Report trader12345 December 13, 2020 4:47 PM GMT
I asked for voiding for all bets in this market. They said no.
Report Angoose December 13, 2020 4:54 PM GMT
Hang off any more communication for a day or so, then return and see what they say.
Report hulk23 December 13, 2020 5:28 PM GMT
lucky if you get through to someone who knows what football is ..
Report pushkin99 December 13, 2020 5:31 PM GMT
trader12345, u need to get this to escalations to get any kind of sensible response. Those u message are the lowest of the low, completely unable to make a decision , offer assistance or help
Report blank December 13, 2020 7:58 PM GMT
The 1.04/05 backer would have complained after the match and got the bets void. Betfair should void instantly but sometimes they only void when someone complains, which is why markets are resettled hours or days later.
Report lurka December 13, 2020 8:10 PM GMT
Need to petition betfair to change their VAR policy and threaten a boycott of VAR games when we have enough numbers. Suspend the market until it kicks off again. It's a ridiculous policy presumably they think they will get more commissions by opening markets for longer. Need to show them they will lose commissions if they continue with it.
Report Lucky Sod December 13, 2020 8:13 PM GMT
Surely after a goal the SUSPEND should come up,and the re-opening of the markets shouldn't happen until the game re-kicks off ..at least it will stop most of the void bets!!!
Report cool_hand_luke December 13, 2020 8:44 PM GMT
don't know why your moaning, you took a position on the back of a goal being scored and it later transpired it was cancelled giving you what you thought as an instant free no risk profit to a large single bet on a team winning 1-0 that later drew (had they won you would not have tried hassling betfair to return the extra profit)....Its a **** thing to happen but that's exactly what it is. ....I don't think closing your account is the answer
Report Blockfire December 13, 2020 9:19 PM GMT

Dec 13, 2020 -- 2:44PM, cool_hand_luke wrote:


don't know why your moaning, you took a position on the back of a goal being scored and it later transpired it was cancelled giving you what you thought as an instant free no risk profit to a large single bet on a team winning 1-0 that later drew (had they won you would not have tried hassling betfair to return the extra profit)....Its a **** thing to happen but that's exactly what it is. ....I don't think closing your account is the answer


I agree with you, price should never have been 1.04/05 because the goal didn't count.

Report Angoose December 13, 2020 9:27 PM GMT
Betfair operate most markets as “managed”, but do operate some as unmanaged.
Fair enough, we know the score ahead of the game.

However, what they cannot do is operate some markets as “mismanaged”.
Because that is what they have done here.
Report Coachbuster December 13, 2020 10:13 PM GMT
they need to do something as it's a muddle , just looked at my  p and l  ,it's a mess with the games and dates all over the place
Report Coachbuster December 13, 2020 10:18 PM GMT
yeah basically trader ,if you buy a bet where there isn't a goal it won't, and can't be counted as a winner
Report Giuseppe December 13, 2020 10:42 PM GMT
who are the people putting up money in these "intervals" between goal being scored and kick off taking place?

they can't all be noobs?
Report roache December 13, 2020 11:04 PM GMT
I sympathise with the poster as i have had numerous issues with the disgraceful and unfair way Betfair insist on managing these VAR markets, i think everyone on here would agree with me that the fairest way to manage these VAR matches is to suspend upon what we all believe a goal being scored then the market only re opens when all the shenanigans and nonsense around VAR is finalised and the game re starts whereby everybody then knows whether a goal has been scored or chalked off but no despite my numerous protests at the absurdity of re opening markets prematurely and then having to void all the bets.
From my experience Betfair instantly void the markets whereby there is a VAR reversal around 90% of the time however there are certain foreign leagues whereby this rarely happens and the markets then get voided either 1. during the match but after a significant period of time. 2.After the match 3.days later
Yes it happened to me once when VAR 1st started i got Betfair to void the bets days after a match whereby they had not voided the bets through a material act in the game that had been changed by VAR.
Now it is impossible to trade and know your true position in a market just like the poster when points 1,2 or 3 are executed by Betfair. just the other week i had a liability in a market because Betfair had not managed the VAR reversal at the time and void the bets so i was gambling as to whether or not Betfair would void after the match or not,i decided to back my liability down but the problem then is Betfair did void the initial bets i had after the match and my subsequent back bets to reduce my liability ended up as a loser.
1 other point guys do not always assume that Betfair will always void bets from a VAR reversal because 1 match about 12 months ago i was trading on it and watching it and quite clearly the goal had been disallowed by VAR as i saw the ref give the VAR signal and overturn the goal however Betfair were having none of this and said VAR had not overturned the goal and because it only involved peanuts i did not pursue this.
Report Blockfire December 14, 2020 12:10 AM GMT
How about just getting rid of suspends and its a free for all if you get caught or not Laugh
Report pushkin99 December 14, 2020 10:16 AM GMT
A lovely meal for the circling Sharks and the hooverers with fast pics then Blockfire
Report roache December 14, 2020 11:54 AM GMT
Its a fair point Blockfire as currently Betfairs management of VAR matches is akin to a football match finishing where we all think we know the score/result then after the match VAR has a check in case they missed something then change the result of the match after it has finished.
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