Lay "any other draw" Challenge

Start - £800

16. PEC Zwolle v FC Utrecht @ 280 - £820.26 to win £2.79 - WON - FT: 3-3

Total Won: £53.31 - Next bet: £822

Withdrawn: £31.31 - Total Stakes: £12,730.68

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Sporting Lisbon v Benfica @ 410 - £94.07 to win £0.22 (rest unmatched)

Start - £800

17. Sporting Lisbon v Benfica @ 410 - £94.07 to win £0.22 - WON - FT: 0-2

Total Won: £53.53 - Next bet: £822

Withdrawn: £31.53 - Total Stakes: £12,824.75

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: QPR v Leeds @ 390 - £602.95 to win £1.47 (rest unmatched)

Update: QPR v Leeds @ 390 - £816.90 to win £2.00

Start - £800

18. QPR v Leeds @ 390 - £816.90 to win £2.00 - WON - FT: 0-1

Total Won: £55.53 - Next bet: £823

Withdrawn: £32.53 - Total Stakes: £13,641.65

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Feyenoord v Heerenveen @ 400 - £821.94 to win £1.96

Adopt a similar strategy, betting to win small amounts.
People laugh, initially.Then I show my P&L and then they ask how.
They do not have either the mindset or discipline to win £2 per wager, so no point.
I do it with Laying horses.
Your system would realise c£800 per annum, and not too many on here achieve that, so good luck.

PS A large Bank is required, and that rules a lot of folk out also.

Hi RothmanMike ...

Yeah you are right, not many would adopt this strategy either. I find this way really does generate more winnings than it does loses, ok I need a good while before I start making profit but the win against loss ratio I feel is in my favour as its random picks I am doing which I feel makes it harder to lose. I can easily win small amounts for as long as it takes. Good luck to you also, let me know how you are getting on.

Start - £800

19. Feyenoord v Heerenveen @ 400 - £821.94 to win £1.96 - WON - FT: 3-1

Total Won: £57.49 - Next bet: £824

Withdrawn: £33.49 - Total Stakes: £14,463.59

©Schalke 04©

laying the AOD is destined for failure  

it's whether you have built up enough profit to take the hit and hope u don't get 2 in succession .


get to know the  best odds  that you can lay and if you don't get them take a swerve  ...it's not like the normal 0-0 , 1-0 everyday scores where the price is set in stone

it can be profitable though if you can  tolerate the  ups and downs in your stride and have a good cushioning

Next bet: Real Mallorca v Valencia @ 240 - £819.77 to win £3.26

Start - £800

20. Real Mallorca v Valencia @ 240 - £819.77 to win £3.26 - WON - FT: 4-1

Total Won: £60.75 - Next bet: £825

Withdrawn: £35.75 - Total Stakes: £15,283.36

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Liverpool v Man Utd @ 350 - £820.15 to win £2.23

Start - £800

21. Liverpool v Man Utd @ 350 - £820.15 to win £2.23 - WON - FT: 2-0

Total Won: £62.98 - Next bet: £826

Withdrawn: £36.98 - Total Stakes: £16,103.51

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Heracles v Vitesse Arnhem @ 270 - £798.79 to win £3.81 (£18 unmatched)

Start - £800

22. Heracles v Vitesse Arnhem @ 270 - £798.79 to win £3.81 - WON - FT: 0-2

Total Won: £66.79 - Next bet: £827

Withdrawn: £39.79 - Total Stakes: £16,902.30

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Al Arabi v Al-Duhail SC - £810.30 to win £3.52 while 1-2 @ 39 mins

Start - £800

23. Al Arabi v Al-Duhail SC - £810.30 to win £3.52 - WON - FT: 1-3

Total Won: £70.31 - Next bet: £828

Withdrawn: £42.31 - Total Stakes: £17,712.60

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Northampton v Derby @ 350 - £820.15 to win £2.23

Start - £800

24. Northampton v Derby @ 350 - £820.15 to win £2.23 - WON - FT: 0-0

Total Won: £72.54 - Next bet: £829

Withdrawn: £43.54 - Total Stakes: £18,532.75

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: B.Moenchengladbach v Mainz @ 250 - £826.68 to win £3.15

Start - £800

25. B.Moenchengladbach v Mainz @ 250 - £826.68 to win £3.15 - WON - FT: 3-1

Total Won: £75.69 - Next bet: £830

Withdrawn: £45.69 - Total Stakes: £19,359.43

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Bournemouth v Arsenal @ 330 - £825.79 to win £2.38

Start - £800

25. Bournemouth v Arsenal @ 330 - £825.79 to win £2.38 - WON - FT: 1-2

Total Won: £78.07 - Next bet: £831

Withdrawn: £47.07 - Total Stakes: £20,185.22

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Aston Villa v Leicester @ 360 - £825.70 to win £2.19

Start - £800

27. Aston Villa v Leicester @ 360 - £825.70 to win £2.19 - WON - FT: 2-1

Total Won: £78.26 - Next bet: £832

Withdrawn: £48.26 - Total Stakes: £21,010.92

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Man City v Man Utd @ 330 - £825.79 to win £2.38

Start - £800

28. Man City v Man Utd @ 330 - £825.79 to win £2.38 - WON - FT: 0-1

Total Won: £80.64 - Next bet: £833

Withdrawn: £49.64 - Total Stakes: £21,836.71

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Tottenham v Man City @ 340 - £827.16 to win £2.32

Hardly a challenge is it, as you rarely ever get a 4-4 draw or 5-5 draw

Feb 2, 2020 -- 5:57PM, cricketnut2 wrote:

Hardly a challenge is it, as you rarely ever get a 4-4 draw or 5-5 draw

Excellent, perfect market then to win money without much risk

Yes - until 1 day a 4-4 actually does happen

Im sure it will one day, maybe the next bet, or 1000 bets might go by .. so the challenge is to get into profit and make some money

Start - £800

29. Tottenham v Man City @ 340 - £827.16 to win £2.32 - WON - FT: 2-0

Total Won: £82.96 - Next bet: £834

Withdrawn: £50.96 - Total Stakes: £22,663.87

©Schalke 04©

Keep plugging away, and after 300 or so bets, people start believing, but they will not join in as they
do not have the required constitution.
Q. Do you have any problem getting bets of c£1000 on at the desired price or is it an average you quote.

Feb 3, 2020 -- 8:39PM, RothmanMike wrote:

Keep plugging away, and after 300 or so bets, people start believing, but they will not join in as they do not have the required constitution.Q. Do you have any problem getting bets of c£1000 on at the desired price or is it an average you quote.

Lots of problems getting bets on yeah, as only got £834 for staking at moment that rules out higher prices but to be honest most matches the prices available I wouldnt even take as they are that ridiculous .. Ill just keep plugging away as you say and eventually the profits will add up, hopefully get to 300 bets, would be interesting to see how much that would generate

Next bet: Liverpool v Shrewsbury @ 200 - £834 to win £3.99

If you had used the same bank, laying the 3-3, scary bananas though, score gets to 2-1 and it would get my blood pumping

Tried that, and much too stressful.
When you lose, its's always in the last few minutes which is even more stressful.
Average price 100.0 , so now give it a miss.

I gave the 3-3's a go and really didnt find it a reliable market at all to do it with

Start - £800

30. Liverpool v Shrewsbury @ 200 - £834 to win £3.99 - WON - FT: 1-0

Total Won: £88.95 - Next bet: £835

Withdrawn: £53.95 - Total Stakes: £23,497.87

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Real Madrid v Real Sociedad @ 340 - £833.94 to win £2.34

That was a close one, closest yet

Start - £800

31. Real Madrid v Real Sociedad @ 340 - £833.94 to win £2.34 - WON - FT: 3-4

Total Won: £91.29 - Next bet: £836

Withdrawn: £55.29 - Total Stakes: £24,331.81

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Dynamo Dreden v SV Darmstadt @ 70 - £828 to win £11.40

Start - £800

32. Dynamo Dresden v SV Darmstadt @ 70 - £828 to win £11.40 - WON - FT: 2-3

Total Won: £102.69 - Next bet: £837

Withdrawn: £65.69 - Total Stakes: £25,159.81

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Bristol City v Birmingham @ 280 - £837 to win £2.85

Start - £800

33. Bristol City v Birmingham @ 280 - £837 to win £2.85 - WON - FT: 1-3

Total Won: £105.54 - Next bet: £838

Withdrawn: £67.54 - Total Stakes: £25,996.81

©Schalke 04©

Having followed this thread, I was curious how often an "any other draw" bet would win so I tried some queries on SoccerStats against the top 5 English leagues and the top 2 Spanish, German, French and Italian leagues for draws of 4-4 or higher during the 2019-2020 season so far.

From a total of around 3450 matches I found 3:

Spanish La Liga: 17 Aug: Villarreal v Granada 4-4
Italy Serie B: 18 Jan: Livorno v Virtus Entella 4-4
France Ligue 2: 31 Jan:    Niort v Paris FC 4-4

On that basis, laying at odds of less than 1000 would seem to be good value (although you'd probably need a bigger sample than that to be confident)

need a much bigger sample , one more 4-4 would change ratio dramatically , Madrid lost 3-4 the other night .....think is you can go ages without one , but 2 or 3 came come in all the same time

Next bet: Wycombe Wanderers v Bristol Rovers @ 130 - £835.96 to win £6.16

Feb 8, 2020 -- 3:03PM, hawkshaw wrote:

Having followed this thread, I was curious how often an "any other draw" bet would win so I tried some queries on SoccerStats against the top 5 English leagues and the top 2 Spanish, German, French and Italian leagues for draws of 4-4 or higher during the 2019-2020 season so far.From a total of around 3450 matches I found 3:Spanish La Liga: 17 Aug: Villarreal v Granada 4-4Italy Serie B: 18 Jan: Livorno v Virtus Entella 4-4France Ligue 2: 31 Jan:    Niort v Paris FC 4-4On that basis, laying at odds of less than 1000 would seem to be good value (although you'd probably need a bigger sample than that to be confident)

Good info, that's not many at all is it for over 3000 matches

Next bet: B.Leverkusen v B.Dortmund

£838 to win £5.33

£838 to win £5.33

4-3 now

close one again

That sure was a close one

Start - £800

34. Wycombe Wanderers v Bristol Rovers @ 130 - £835.96 to win £6.16 - WON - FT: 3-1
35. B.Leverkusen v B.Dortmund @ 151 - £838 to win £5.33 - WON - FT: 4-3

Total Won: £117.03 - Next bet: £840

Withdrawn: £77.03 - Total Stakes: £27,670.76

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Porto v Benfica @ 34 - £825 to win £23.75

Start - £800

36. Porto v Benfica @ 34 - £825 to win £23.75 - WON - FT: 3-2

Total Won: £140.78 - Next bet: £841

Withdrawn: £99.78 - Total Stakes: £28,495.76

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Real Betis v Barcelona @ 75-80 - £832.77 to win £9.81

Noticed the inaugural post of Mr Hawkshaw, and of course you don't bet in every match, so you would
have been unfortunate to have got involved in any of the 3 offending games.
For my own punting, I am laying the odd Over /Under 6.5 , so the recent Leverkusen game would have been
a problem, but I never got involved.
Keep on doing what you're doing Schalke.

Feb 9, 2020 -- 9:03PM, RothmanMike wrote:

Noticed the inaugural post of Mr Hawkshaw, and of course you don't bet in every match, so you would have been unfortunate to have got involved in any of the 3 offending games.For my own punting, I am laying the odd Over /Under 6.5 , so the recent Leverkusen game would have beena problem, but I never got involved.Keep on doing what you're doing Schalke.

I gave the U6.5 market a go and it caught me out every time, not with massive stakes mind you. I think I would be tempted to try the laying side of 6.5 market as it does seem to pop up quite a lot .. Im enjoying this market though, it does seem to be very very rare indeed for a 4-4, and as you say its not every match Im doing, only matches where money is in markets at reasonable odds

Start - £800

37. Real Betis v Barcelona @ 75-80 - £832.77 to win £9.81 - WON - FT: 2-3

Total Won: £150.59 - Next bet: £842

Withdrawn: £108.59 - Total Stakes: £29,328.53

©Schalke 04©

In the English Premier League, the last time "any other draw" came up was back in 2013 which was Fergie's last game in charge of Man Utd:

19/05/2013 West Brom v Man Utd 5-5

Going back as far as 2009-10, there were only 3 other occasions but they all happened before that:

05/02/2011 Newcastle v Arsenal 4-4 (I seem to remember that Newcastle came back from 0-4)
22/04/2012 Man United v Everton 4-4
28/04/2012 Swansea v Wolves 4-4

So 4 from a total of 4053 matches (but it did happen twice within a week!)

Wow !! Great stats hawkshaw

Next bet: Go Ahead Eagles v FC Utrecht @ 300 - £837.20 to win £2.66 while 1-3 @ 58 mins

Start - £800

38. Go Ahead Eagles v FC Utrecht @ 300 - £837.20 to win £2.66 - WON - FT: 1-4

Total Won: £153.25 - Next bet: £843

Withdrawn: £110.25 - Total Stakes: £30,165.73

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Antwerp v Genk @ 310 - £834.30 to win £2.57 while 0-1 @ 12 mins

Start - £800

39. Antwerp v Genk @ 310 - £834.30 to win £2.57 - WON - FT: 1-1

Total Won: £155.82 - Next bet: £844

Withdrawn: £111.82 - Total Stakes: £31,000.03

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Borrusia Dortmund v Eintracht Frankfurt @ 240 - £841.28 to win £3.34

Start - £800

40. Borrusia Dortmund v Eintracht Frankfurt @ 240 - £841.28 to win £3.34 - WON - FT: 4-0

Total Won: £159.16 - Next bet: £845

Withdrawn: £114.16 - Total Stakes: £31,841.31

©Schalke 04©

Next bet: Hull v Swansea @ 36 - £770 to win £20.90 while 3-3 @ 82 mins

Good timing

That'll be that then, poor bet when I think about it

feel for you.

I should have kept my stats to myself.  Hope I didn't jinx it.

you werent really laying 4-4 from ko , it was 1-1 more with 8 min to go .....i know its easy with hindsight , unlucky Schalke

yep, a bit of a boedom bet, and 30/1 shot bust your laying 300/1 shots

ouch!

I see psg also ended 4-4, ul Schalke.

People will jump on it but its harder than it looks, laying 0-0s seems easy until one happens and takes half the bank or even the whole bank in one foul swoop

Its tough but doesn't look it

2 lots of 4-4s in less than 24 hours

who'd've  thought it ?

Neither really shock me coach as Hull/Swansea are both incapable of basic defending, some of those goals were pathetic defending for a professional football side

PSG don't bother with defending as they are that much better than the rest in that league they can just outscore them, but occasionally they do throw in a stinker defensivally

any 4-4 shocks me  lol


as for 0-0s ...i would only buy that score  ,esp in the EPL ,seems to be the most common score in that rancid league

it certainly feels like it  ...boring feckin league it is

He isnt actually laying 4-4 though is he , as gibmark correctly says he's laying 1-1 as the score is already 3-3 when the bets put on taking any value out of it. Bearing in mind how many late goals there on in football, to lay a 3-3 hoping it won't finish 4-4 to win £20 using a stake of £790 is betting suicide really but sometimes logic goes out of the window for all of us placing bets.

yep, you will lay more winners if you lay 30/1 shots than if you lay 300/1 shots

I'm sure Schalke04 is fine but yes there's no logic in betting such shorties to win pennies and laying massive amounts to win the same pennies

We've all seen games that are turgid affairs, 0-0 after 65 minutes and one goal sparks a massive goal fest and the game finishes 3-3 or 3-2, 5 or 6 goals in 25 minutes, and when you've seen it there's no longer a shock factor when you see it again, the first time it happens to you you are in a state of shock though esp if £250+ has been lost

You can't think straight for hours

I've had it all happen to me, horses clear coming to the last but falling, horses that have actually jumped the last but stumbled on the run in and unseated the rider, horses clear and somehow running off the main track, 3 goals in stoppage time to kill an unders, missed penalties in laying 0-0 draws etc etc the list goes on

But I still come back because lets be honest we all love it really

I think the beauty of laying 4-4 from the start is that you do get enough time to buy out at a loss (if you choose so )

I'm looking at all the Championship seasons going back , 520 games a season and an average of just over 1 per season ...even a handful of 5-5 draws in the mix   ....

premier league from 2000 to 2013  was producing a 4-4  every season on average   ...so on reflection and  taking note of our friends stats on here  from thois season ,and the 2 new arrivals  ....not forgetting this season the 5-5 draw in the league cup   ....

then i estimate an average of around 600-1 per occurence  .....  some games like  Dortmund v PSG  will start around 120 lol   ....other games ,esp Atletico Madrid  you canm't even lay for 1000 unless u join a long queue

it's a very curious/quirky bet ... and one i've taken a lot of interest in ...  there was a 4-4 one time that was 0-0 at 45 minutes    ...also another couple which were 1-0 .



it's hard to know if there is a catalyst  ..   it's a crazy score for sure .

in 1997 there were 3x of  4-4s in one Championship season

I was watching old Norwich v Southampton highlights the other day  which ended 5-4   ...and during the first half it looked like a 0-0 was on the cards  . there wasn't  much going on until the 37th minute

Feb 17, 2020 -- 11:28PM, Coachbuster wrote:

it's a very curious/quirky bet ... and one i've taken a lot of interest in ...  there was a 4-4 one time that was 0-0 at 45 minutes    ...also another couple which were 1-0 .it's hard to know if there is a catalyst  ..   it's a crazy score for sure .in 1997 there were 3x of  4-4s in one Championship season

We drew 4-4 in the PL. Think it was 4-3 at half-time, can't remember which way round though think we might have been ahead and against 10 men. The distribution of goals in high-scoring matches may not be as obvious as it seems. Definitely half-time has some impact on games which you can't mitigate for.

ahh yes Bradford City Darlo  ... that's on the listings 


forgot to mention 3x 4-4s  from 07/08 in the EPL

that 4-3  at half time must be a  one off darlo