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Reynard
11 Dec 18 10:10
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Date Joined: 30 Dec 02
| Topic/replies: 7,176 | Blogger: Reynard's blog
It's always been there , like 'crowd participation' , so should the authorities try to eradicate it ?
Whilst I despise racial abuse , which has no place in modern society , surely the general haranguing of opposition players cannot be outlawed . It's another aspect of home advantage . Radio phone ins are rightfully condemning the treatment dished out to Raheem Sterling by certain Chelsea fans , but some are calling for the banning of all verbal abuse of players . What are they going to push for next ? A 'play-list' of acceptable songs to be sung from the terraces by opposing supporters ? The introduction of all-seater stadia had a detrimental effect on the atmosphere in our football grounds but a total ban on 'football banter' would sound the death knell .
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Report themover December 11, 2018 11:25 AM GMT
If they did it to someone in the street would that be acceptable behaviour? Ban it I say.
Report REDUNDANT PUNTER December 11, 2018 11:36 AM GMT
I agree about racial abuse but the fact is players get abuse from opposing fans if football kits were designed to be all in ones with full head cover the opposing fans would still abuse the opposing players they just wouldn’t have racial overtones

When someone shouts abuse they often add the most striking visual feature to the abuse the. Followed by what they think they know about the person

So if a player was say more rotund the abuse would relate to this and fat would be the adjective if they had red hair then ginger would be the adjective a persons place of birth or nationality also would be an adjective

The colour of someone’s skin also an adjective these are used by someone whose verbally abusing you so it’s not really unexpected even if it’s unwarranted  of course it’s wrong but you can’t stop individuals from doing it if it’s in their nature



Abusivelanguage is never complimentary and is always littered with the most easy reconiseable feature
Report Reynard December 11, 2018 11:45 AM GMT
I remember my dear mother hurling abuse at Mick Mills from the Chicken Run after he ran his studs down Billy Bonds leg . I think people were more amused than offended . Football always brought the worse out of mother lol . No harm done Grin
Report sparrow December 11, 2018 1:03 PM GMT
No opposition player would escape abuse from the supporters in the Chicken Run. Grin
Report donny osmond December 11, 2018 1:15 PM GMT
if you cant find some way to abuse a player without refering to racism
or generalisations then perhaps you shouldnt be abusing the players.
Report Reynard December 11, 2018 1:15 PM GMT
Notorious enclosures , such as the Chicken Run , are often affectionately referred to in anecdotes by ex-footballers . They seemed to accept that it was one aspect of The Boleyn that made it a 'fortress' especially under floodlights , for some reason . The banter and the humour of the occupants , even the abuse is fondly remembered by many . Football grounds have been over-sanitised due to recent legislation (some necessary on grounds of H&S) but to remove it completely would kill what little atmosphere we have retained .

themover • December 11, 2018 11:25 AM GMT
If they did it to someone in the street would that be acceptable behaviour?
I agree totally but we aren't talking about a public thoroughfare , we're talking about football grounds . Half the challenges that occur within them would be deemed unacceptable in the street !
Working class spectators and industrial language have long been associated with the national game . Why try to change things ?
Report Reynard December 11, 2018 1:20 PM GMT
I agree with you , donny , just keep out the racist comments . Everything else is fair game Mischief
Report stickyvicky December 11, 2018 1:39 PM GMT
Chelsea fan claiming he called Sterling a 'Manc C' not a 'Black C' now....

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6481297/Chelsea-fan-accused-racially-abusing-Sterling-says-called-MANC-c-not-black-one.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490
Report duncan idaho December 11, 2018 1:44 PM GMT
yeah, right...dont tell me, he also reckons he's got mates who is black?
Report lovegod December 11, 2018 1:58 PM GMT
Maybe fans should adopt the players approach and cover their mouths when speaking, that way no chance of being lip read.
Report Reynard December 11, 2018 2:07 PM GMT
I'm guessing Alf Garnett would have got a life ban then ? Blush
Report themover December 11, 2018 2:30 PM GMT
The Mail quoted the supporter as saying: “I’m deeply ashamed by my own behaviour and I feel really bad. But I didn’t call him a ***** ****, I called him a Manc ****.

“I’ve been going to Chelsea for 50 years now and, because of where I sit, I’m picked up on the camera most weeks. If I had a history of saying this sort of thing I would’ve been caught by now.”

The Mail further quoted the fan as saying he had lost his job and Chelsea season ticket and as adding: “I offer him an unreserved apology. Even if it wasn’t racist, it’s not right what I said.”
Report themover December 11, 2018 2:34 PM GMT
Cry
Report duncan idaho December 11, 2018 3:37 PM GMT
surprised at the Daily Mail sticking up for a racist   Mischief
Report ufcdan December 11, 2018 6:17 PM GMT
So we cant upset the overpaid prime Donnas now, fair enough when they score don't run past cupping their ear or shooshing fans etc etc or just standing there winding up the fans. Go to their own fans. Pity the old dog track is still not round the ground so the over sensitive types wouldn't be able to hear it.
Report GLASGOWCALLING December 11, 2018 6:23 PM GMT
i recall seeing a black lad in row behind, maybe ask him how he feels every saturday. ??
Report MrMeaner December 11, 2018 6:39 PM GMT
Morgan Freeman gave the best answer ever when asked in a TV interview what's the best way to tackle racism. "Simple" he said. "Don't talk about it".

I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of people are not racist. So by feeding the small minority of pondlife the oxygen of publicity, it's never going to die.
Report skygreenzone December 11, 2018 6:43 PM GMT
Gazza was a woman beater weren't he?
Report ufcdan December 11, 2018 7:10 PM GMT
Media blowing it all out of proportion and never said anything when it really was rife
Report crystalhunt December 11, 2018 11:30 PM GMT
Chelsea knuckle draggers have form. Imagine taking your kids to a match and sitting near them.
Report n88uk December 12, 2018 12:05 AM GMT

Dec 11, 2018 -- 12:39PM, MrMeaner wrote:


Morgan Freeman gave the best answer ever when asked in a TV interview what's the best way to tackle racism. "Simple" he said. "Don't talk about it".I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of people are not racist. So by feeding the small minority of pondlife the oxygen of publicity, it's never going to die.


This is a nonsense theory. Where this happens racism tends to be more rife.

I would also guess more people are racist than you'd think and that would let on. I mean nobody openly admits to being a racist outside lunatics but you only need to have been around certain environments, and football is one to hear racist language all the time.

Report n88uk December 12, 2018 12:06 AM GMT
An on OP no. This is where the slippery slope begins, it's when people start passing thing as banter or part of the game and so on which are actually just massively racist/sexist and so on.
Report sparrow December 12, 2018 7:16 AM GMT
Agree 100% with n88uk. "Banter" must be one of the most abused words in the English language.
Report thelatarps December 12, 2018 9:22 AM GMT
The bullsh1t over this story is piling so high you need wings to stay above it.
Sterling is a bit of a dick but no one deserves to be called a 'manc c@nt'.
But thats all it was.
I would suggest that if the standards applied to this chelsea fan are applied to the liv utd game this sunday then they may as well play it behind closed doors.
Report GoBallistic December 12, 2018 9:40 AM GMT
c@nt maybe, manc hardly
Report duffy December 12, 2018 12:55 PM GMT
Going to go silly now, bloke on The Debate now suggesting that you shouldn't call a player "lazy" who hasn't pulled his weight if he happens to be black because it has "connotations"CrazyCrazy

What happens when Sterling has a real bad game in future!!! 9/10 would be my guess.

The print media who he's called out will be scared to death now.
Report donny osmond December 12, 2018 2:11 PM GMT
if sterling was lazy you could call him lazy, he isnt lazy though, so why even suggest it
Report duffy December 12, 2018 2:22 PM GMT
The bloke was referring to Lukaku being described as lazy whilst Morata was described as being "laconic"Crazy
Report donny osmond December 12, 2018 2:26 PM GMT
sorry duffy, i didnt know that, has that post gone?


i thought jose got the blame for lukakus lack of workrate these days
Report duffy December 12, 2018 2:29 PM GMT
Darren Lewis said it on "the debate" on sky sports.
Report duffy December 12, 2018 2:32 PM GMT
Danny Murphy remarked how he was doing a game with Gullit one time and referrred to a black player as a beast, he was obviously praising the guy, but Gullit asked him if he would use that term if the player had been white....Murphy said that it made him think somewhat!!!!  Discussing whether a lot of us are guilty of unconscious racism.
Report donny osmond December 12, 2018 2:50 PM GMT
billy whitehurst was often referred to as being a beast or a monster

i dont see what the term has to do with race, fairly similar to lazy.

most folk dont worry about stuff because they are not racist, but if
something they say is offensive then they will offer explanation, and
if still required an apology.

the suggestion that some folk rush to find offence when non is intended
nor exists is also true of some folk.
Report sparrow December 12, 2018 3:02 PM GMT
uffy    12 Dec 18 14:32 
Danny Murphy remarked how he was doing a game with Gullit one time and referrred to a black player as a beast, he was obviously praising the guy, but Gullit asked him if he would use that term if the player had been white....Murphy said that it made him think somewhat!!!!  Discussing whether a lot of us are guilty of unconscious racism.




Dennis Skinner is white.
Report duffy December 12, 2018 3:06 PM GMT
Sterling's negativity stems back to when he left Liverpool and then the gun tattoo. In some peoples mind's, the tattoo could be construed as a foolish choice when weighed against the current culture. Sterling explains himself and the public is expected to accept it.
Report 1st time poster December 12, 2018 3:08 PM GMT
that's the point, why should murphy question himself , if anything its guliit that's the racist if he connects the word beast with been black, that's the point piers morgan was making with the loony carlise
Report 1st time poster December 12, 2018 3:12 PM GMT
sterlings problems stem from taking 100 games to even look like a footballer ,missing open goals,shinning shots, etc,etc, been caught doing shishi pipes, fathering umpteen kids ,tattoo,,doing the kissing the badge routine at l,pool, showboating in the derby etc,etc
Report donny osmond December 12, 2018 3:20 PM GMT
sterling got abuse at liverpool, but had suarez to kop most of the flak.
Report skygreenzone December 12, 2018 4:55 PM GMT
I just think it's really sad that men in their 50's feel the need to shout at any footballer like that.I could understand kids as they are still maturing and don't know any better.But grown men.sad.
Report superjudge December 12, 2018 4:58 PM GMT
what a massive bag of bollocks this is.darren lewis  has got a problem with calling paul progba lazy. would he have a problem if i said he was bang overrated? lacks football intelligence? and got a attitude problem? dear o dear what is this country coming to.and by the way iam not racist i just have an opinion.
Report superjudge December 12, 2018 5:24 PM GMT
lnjera not being funny not really bothered whats the situation is in africa.will put it another way mesut ozil of arsenal is lazy player and when a player earning bundles a week playing football cant be bothered to run supporters paying top dollar are entitled to moan and say how they fill.
Report temple December 12, 2018 5:26 PM GMT
Has Big Ron been consulted?
Report duffy December 12, 2018 5:29 PM GMT
Big Ron's situation is the biggest irony in all this, because he was one of the first who championed black players, made a stupid bad mistake but isn't a racist.
Report Injera December 12, 2018 5:29 PM GMT
Agree sj. I'm just trying to think why 'lazy' is used for blacks more than whites.

Many players look as they don't care and have languid running styles. Pogba the classic example. Does he care? Almost certainly. Does it look like it? Not really.
Report duffy December 12, 2018 5:32 PM GMT
I've not been aware that the term is used for black people more than white.
Report duffy December 12, 2018 5:36 PM GMT
Ask anyone what player has the biggest engine in the EPL and you'd probably have most people say Kante with a few Fernandinho's sprinkled in.
Report superjudge December 12, 2018 5:40 PM GMT
lnjera why lazy is used more for blacks than whites.that is a complete bag of bollocks.ozil is the laziest player in the prem for me and a complete waste of time that is my opinion.kante won of the best and hardest working players.it not about colour it about saying it as it is.
Report superjudge December 12, 2018 5:40 PM GMT
you beat me to it duffy.you are spot on.
Report 11kv December 12, 2018 7:25 PM GMT
Has Jonny Barnes had his say yet.....
Report sageform December 12, 2018 7:56 PM GMT
It is easy to see the problem if you go to a match. Around 20 years ago (when Blackburn won the league) my 14 year old as he was then was a big Blackburn fan despite living in Gloucestershire. I contacted Aston Villa to ask about a family ticket section and made the big mistake of telling the person on the phone that my son supported Blackburn. Her tone was really hostile and she told me that the away supporters were confined to one part of the ground behind a goal and that family seats were only for home fans. What sort of message is that. My other son was a Gloucester rugby supporter and we went to a few games, mixed freely with away supporters and could stand or sit in any part of the ground. There was never any problems. The more they segregate the more hostile the environment gets.
Report superjudge December 12, 2018 8:09 PM GMT
off cource barnes has had hes say. great player. v poor manager. hope the thruth is not to sensitive
Report ufcdan December 12, 2018 8:16 PM GMT
off cource barnes has had hes say. great player. v poor manager. hope the thruth is not to sensitive

Please change poor to participating Mischief
Report GRANTCKING December 12, 2018 8:20 PM GMT
id happily take any abuse from the crowd for 10k a week let alone 100k+
Report superjudge December 12, 2018 8:24 PM GMT
you have to fill sorry for the poor little lambsLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report skygreenzone December 12, 2018 8:40 PM GMT
wOULD YOU TAKE IT IN THE STREET WHEN THEY KNOW YOU COULD FIGHT BACK?
Report skygreenzone December 12, 2018 8:41 PM GMT
W
Report Whisperingdeath December 12, 2018 8:51 PM GMT
I think many football fans are generally ignorant and stupid. They feel they can get away with it when in a crowd. Many don't even know the rules but have an opinion about how the ref cost them the game. Compare these people with rugby and cricket fans and you'd think they are from a different planet. That is not to say all football fans are stupid or thugs. A colleague told me today he went to Stockholm with Chelsea back in the day. The riot Police were stood down because of the good behaviour of the fans. I guess they are not all mindless morons, I just like to think so!
Report temple December 12, 2018 8:56 PM GMT
Many don't even know the rules but have an opinion about how the ref cost them the game. Compare these people with rugby and cricket fans and you'd think they are from a different planet.

This also applies to many football players and managers
Report superjudge December 12, 2018 9:00 PM GMT
temple your bang on there pal. great shout.
Report 1st time poster December 12, 2018 9:16 PM GMT
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

and rugby fans do no the rules 47 possible offences at a line out
Report Reynard December 12, 2018 9:28 PM GMT
superjudge • December 12, 2018 4:58 PM GMT
what a massive bag of bollocks this is.darren lewis  has got a problem with calling paul progba lazy. would he have a problem if i said he was bang overrated? lacks football intelligence? and got a attitude problem? dear o dear what is this country coming to.and by the way iam not racist i just have an opinion.

Darren Lewis is a lazy agenda-driven journalist who uses every available opportunity to have a pop at us whiteys . Pompous and self-serving he took objection to Jason Cundy's correct description of Pogba as 'lazy' and turned it into a 2 hour diatribe . Total embarrassment to his profession who has a chip on both shoulders and gleefully plays the race card wherever possible .
Report ufcdan December 12, 2018 10:06 PM GMT
I think many football fans are generally ignorant and stupid. They feel they can get away with it when in a crowd. Many don't even know the rules but have an opinion about how the ref cost them the game. Compare these people with rugby and cricket fans and you'd think they are from a different planet. That is not to say all football fans are stupid or thugs. A colleague told me today he went to Stockholm with Chelsea back in the day. The riot Police were stood down because of the good behaviour of the fans. I guess they are not all mindless morons, I just like to think so!


About 24 years ago went to see Chelsea play out in Austria against Rapid Vienna. Have to say I've never met so many rude people anywhere. I asked out hotel manager why Austrians where so rude. He said that they weren't but they had been told that 3,000 Chelsea skinheads were coming and they would smash the town up. When we'd left Vienna intact we were voted the best behaved supporters they'd had. Mind you the Vienna lads didn't come out to entertain us LaughWink
Report donny osmond December 13, 2018 12:16 AM GMT
some refs in football dont know the rules

some linesmen dont know rules

not just the fans, and players and pundits

rugby refs are miked up, would really improve football if refs were miked up, and var was used
for goal line and offsides, and foul play
Report 1st time poster December 13, 2018 3:18 PM GMT
the Chelsea would have been  right re lewis, and lewis aint from Manchester, Wink
Report sageform December 13, 2018 6:31 PM GMT
Agree about the rules in Rugby. Not sure if there are more than a dozen people on the planet that understand those.
Report moisok December 13, 2018 9:01 PM GMT
well sage - at least I understand the offside rule in rugby football - SEW THEIR!!!
Report duffy December 13, 2018 11:00 PM GMT
sageform 13 Dec 18 18:31 
Agree about the rules in Rugby. Not sure if there are more than a dozen people on the planet that understand those.


You think Rugby is bad, you should try the NFL, the only people who understand those rules are all the wrong side of 80, and they have to dig them up every Sunday to ref the games!!
Report sparrow December 14, 2018 7:13 AM GMT
duffy    13 Dec 18 23:00 
sageform 13 Dec 18 18:31 
Agree about the rules in Rugby. Not sure if there are more than a dozen people on the planet that understand those.


You think Rugby is bad, you should try the NFL, the only people who understand those rules are all the wrong side of 80, and they have to dig them up every Sunday to ref the games!!




I always thought that NFL stuff was for young people as I don't know anyone over 40 who has the slightest interest in it.
Report duffy December 14, 2018 2:22 PM GMT
Love it myself and I'm north of 40CryGrin
Report sixtwosix December 14, 2018 2:38 PM GMT
Where else can you rant and rave in public for two hours without getting arrested or put in a straight jacket.

This tribal nonsense between teams is beyond ludicrous.
The only team you should be focused on are your opponents and rivals in the table.

When you hear fans of team A saying they hate team B  , it is because we have always hated them , but no actual reason for this insanity.

All the top teams are Russian oil , American finance , Arab oil or Asian finance .....they have longed ceased to be the clubs you recall.

And surely players language is as relevant as fans , get the ref miked up  ......the players will soon shut it when their lucrative sponsorship contracts drop them.
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