Jurgen Klopp to Sky Sports:

he was probably saying that to courtinho and firmino whilst sat on the bench next to him for 80 mins,they new he was talking shoite as well

It would be a good idea for him to talk to someone with some understanding of football

true story this
we had a sunday morning manager who in a cup semi,we had a centre forward who,d scored about 50 goals that season had caused havoc all afternoon hit the woodwork 5 times ,made the keeper make worldie after worldie,with 20 left he took him off and the lad was screaming at him with rage the manager said I want you to sit next to me and watch the shoite you have to play with, ,
reminds of klopp

Davison: Have you had a chance to see it back?

Klopp: Yes. He makes a step in this direction but even then it is nothing. And then we have the penalty, and one team can celebrate, and we can't.

Davison: What have you said to the referee?

Klopp: That I don't understand that he's doing that. That's all I said. I didn't use one swearing word. I cannot, cannot believe that in a game like this, where only one team is trying over 95 minutes to do everything to win it, and the other team… was not even in our box, I'm not sure if they even had a shot on target, except from the penalty. And you open the door for them like this, it's in my understanding not OK.

Davison: For you, 100 per cent not a penalty, or does Dejan Lovren…

Klopp: No, no, no!

Davison: I'm not blaming him, but does he not need to make the challenge though?

Klopp: He doesn't make a challenge! Calvert-Lewin takes a step…

Davison: And his hand is on his back…

Klopp: The hand is like this [gestures to Davison] on his back, you saw it, if you think it's a penalty, then do it, say it, say it's a penalty in your opinion. Is it a penalty in your opinion?

Davison: OK. My opinion doesn't matter, I would say soft…

Klopp: Obviously my opinion doesn't matter as well.

Davison: Of course your opinion matters.

Klopp: Does it change anything?

Davison: No, we can't change anything in an interview, can we?

Klopp: Do you think it is a penalty or not?

Davison: I think it's soft, but I think it is a penalty.

Klopp: Ha ha ha! Well, then we can stop the interview, because I only want to talk to people who have a little bit of an understanding of football because I'm sorry, really, I can't believe…

Davison: I know you're angry, but there are people who played a lot of football matches in our studio, who also think it's a penalty.

Klopp: Oh [looks at camera]. Then sorry. I'm wrong. You're all right.

Davison: I didn't say that.

Klopp: Yes that's what you said.

Davison: I didn't say you were wrong.

Klopp: When all the other people are right, I must be wrong, right?

Davison: No. Just because… isn't it a game of opinions?

Klopp: Can we please stop this here. Do you have three, five minutes already? Obviously I am not in the mood to answer your question, and you don't have the questions do you?

Davison: I have one more, I don't think you're going to like it. Six changes today, you also took Salah off at 1-0 up. Do you think those changes had any impact on the result?

Klopp: That's my job, that's my job, I make decisions before I know they are right, and afterwards it is your job to say I'm not right. No problem with that. Yes I was sure this was the right decision, we brought Roberto Firmino on for Mo Salah, so, we could have scored before, we could have scored afterwards. We could have scored all the time. We lived more or less in their box. But obviously we didn't do it, I have to take that, I have no problem with that. I only think, if you invest that much in a game like this today in a game like this, they didn't have counter-attacks! It's quite difficult. If you have one situation, and now we drew, there are bigger catastrophes on this planet than getting a point after a game like this, but it feels not too good. Sorry about all the rest I said before.

REPEAT ON SKY FOOTY SHORTLY

Interviewer comes around as a bit of a b*llend, in my opinion. Klopp strikes me as a decent, likable guy. He probably gets frustrated at the fact he's one of only four managers in the EPL that actually try to play football the right way

I don't blame Klopp for being annoyed with this guy who thinks putting a hand on a players back is a foul.

A push is a foul , a shirt pull is a foul , touching the player's back is just incidental contact .

he should have signed a decent central defender in the summer, thats his problem.

Agreed MM.....bang on.

look at hendo in the background,look across to the reff he no,s its a pen

It was a ****g pen, Lovren is a tit.

Jc how can you play football the right way with oxlade shambles in your team

I understand Klopp's frustration, but he has made a fool of himself.

He said that it clearly wasn't a penalty, but if it had happened at the other end you can be certain that he would be saying that it was a nailed-on foul.

Didn't think it was a penalty tbh, but seems I'm in minority judging from media (sounds like he got roasted in press conference too). But this was total heads gone from Klopp.

managers usually use the phrase when not given pens ,that if it was outside the box it would be fou, if that was utside the box it would be a foul for a push 100%, klopp only unlucky in the fact the reff give in the box what he,d have given outside. did klopp want the everton player booked for simulation

Wish I had seen the interview...sounds like a belter...wonder if aec is really serious about Klopp being nasty...surely not, the guy has passion, big difference between that and being nasty. Add in a bit of frustration, and you have the pen.

Watching the manchester derby, when a player is literally thrown to the ground and a pen is not given...and then a player stops, bounces off the the centre half, and its a pen....people see what they want to see....unreal...tobes is spot on....so what if Lovern has his hand up, means nothing.  If you really want to analyse, you say, yeh, Lovern, been sold one, didn't need to be touch tight...clumsy...and Kalvert lewis knows where he is and knows exactly what he is going to do.

IMO, the ref has to look at that in context before giving the pen, does he think the forward is trying to buy a pen...after all..he is running away from the box. My old man was a ref, and him and I argue about this, he says refs don't think that way, they give what they see. I argue that the game has moved on, and the ref has to look at the context and question the contact..the game has moved on, players are learning new ways, being more devious, doing anything to get a decision...look at herrara today, clearly left a leg and tried to buy a pen, for me, thats what Kalvert did too...he got it.

Lovren is a prize mug and that was well known last season but he didn't replace him. The decision could have gone either way and I wouldn't blame the ref. If it has been at the other end Klopp would have said it was a push and a pen. I don't know how much force Lovren used but it looked from one angle like enough to be a foul. Calvert-Lewin was going nowhere and Lovren was actually in a decent position to just hold him up and prevent him shooting. Ludicrous to do what he did.

Lovern, Mingolet and Moreno are all ticking time bombs in the Liverpool defence, all accidents waiting to happen and accidents that have happened numerous times already, yet Klopp is to stubborn to address this situation.

*too stubborn

allyp 10 Dec 17 23:28

Wish I had seen the interview..

you can see the clip of him ranting like a lunatic on youtube

told you last night ,look at Henderson who,s behind looks straight across to the reff because he see,s lovrens put his hands up, hendo no,s its going to be given

absolutely staggering that people have watched endless replays and still dont see that C-L simply jumps into Lovren..no fan of his but Lovren is doing no different to what 100% of all defenders in that position would be doing...of course you put youre hands up when someone collides with you...no idea what some people are watching these days

fwiw thought the interviewer handled the interview very well..fair play

Agree with that Duncan. DCL clearly steps across him and then slows up which causes the contact. Kind of trick that Suarez used to do all the time in fairness.

It does happen and Lovren should have been aware that he might do that and how it could look to a ref though.

you should phone lovren and klopp arrange a dinner date,if you advertise you might find a 4th person in the country who doesn't think its a pen

cause he steps across him its his job to get between lovren and the ball

Evertons penalty was more of a penalty than Firminos dive against swansea


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g83YVVUSg2o&t=6m20s

As I've said I think it's contentious and I can see why it's given but it's one that's been engineered by the attacker. Just the same as when they leave their back leg dangling or touch a ball round a keeper towards the corner flag then collapse down on to the flailing arms. Technically a pen but caused by the attacker engineering it rather than the defender clattering in.

Nasty German Cheerleader

If it was the other way around Allardyce would be seething and Klopp would be saying it was a clear penalty. It is football, get on with it.

The German playboy is hiding behind this to mask his pathetic team selection. If he had selected his full side Liverpool would have won comfortably.

Bring back Benitez.

surprised no l,pool fans have said salah,s was more of a push,foul on the everton defender for his goal, , or maybe I,m not,

PP,you left Saint Kenny and Stevie G out!

https://twitter.com/tancredipalmeri/
status/940162948202418176 gif of the ref's view. Looked like a push and I don't think DCL went down without feeling some force, the angle from behind the goal makes it look like he just jumped into him and fell over but it's the left hand and you can't see that from behind the goal

Palmeri is spot on

Tancredi Palmeri‏Verified account
@tancredipalmeri
5h5 hours ago
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In fairness to the ref, this is his point of view, and you can actually fall to believe it was a penalty.
So ref’s mistake is excusable.
What is not excusable is a pundit thinking it is a penalty even after watching both angles

can the reff be excused for not seeing salah push,then throw the everton defender to the floor before scoring

I don't see why people/pundits are reading into angles where you can't see Lovren's left hand, esp when that is NOT the angle the ref saw. The left hand movement is key

when i saw it live i shouted 'pen' at my tv straight away

ref gave what he saw....seems fair enough !

loads of pundits said deffo pelanty

i think it was not a pelanty as everton player caused it, but its the same as shielding
ball out for goal kick, and they never get penalised for that, so i would expect ref to give
pelanty anyway.

video replay and rooney is still waiting to take pelanty and folk have gone home to argue about it
and wrap christmas presents

who would be a ref ?

I can see why the ref gave it and accept they have a difficult job. From where he was stood, and in the split second he has to make a decision, its completely understandable.

What I cant accept, is people watching the below clip and still saying it was a penalty.

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/940156358816686080

CCM you can't see the left hand contact in that clip so it's irrelevant imo

The left hand is irrelevant imo. DCL actually jumps into him! If their is a foul at all, its on Lovren, not by him.

* there ffs.

what I cant understand,is why someone who understands why the reff gives it, then puts up a clip,to try and show why those who understood why he give it,shouldnt understand why he give it, right do you all understand now,

You're missing the point, not for the first time 1tp.

he doesn't just bump off him and fall over as that clip seems to show, he feels force on his back from the left hand and goes down. You feel contact like that most strikers would go down. He doesn't just jump into him, he's using his body to make sure the defender doesn't get his body in front and get to the ball first. If he doesn't feel the contact from the left hand he stays up imo

if lovren doesnt push him he has already lost chance to score !!!

gambled all on winning pelanty, and won.

100% not a foul on Lovren, you are allowed to use your body to shield the ball. Happens all over the pitch all game long

The left hand is 100% relevant too. That's why the ref gave the pen FFS, a push with the left hand

But he doesnt push him! Thats the whole point. Lovren has his hand up, but if DCL doesnt move towards him, then he doesnt go over. He bounces off Lovren, rather than Lovren push him.

Anyway, remarkable that two people can see it so differently imo. I think it wasnt, you think it was, pointless trying to persuade each other differently.

Lurka - I think tancredi's clip shows that at the time DCL "takes off" then Lovren's hand isn't on him. The point the contact is made is when he lands, almost on Lovren's toes.


ie DCL clearly jumps into Lovren's path (with no help from the defender), as he is then directly in front of him Lovren's hand goes up and DCL falls over as if shoved.

An excuse is what it is....For a poor result, and not very good performance.
Moral being don't leave it up to chance or a dodgy reffing decision,do your own jobs and win the match by selecting strongest team available, worry about the mighty West Brom when we are actually facing them,not 4 days previous....
Fact so much debate on pen or not is just a kop out.....
If 2,3 up it's utterly irrelevant.

And there's no guarantee we'd have been 2 or 3 up with the strongest team.

We also don't know if that wasn't the strongest team, and if the lads who missed out were 100%. Didn't Phil miss training on friday?

And lastly, it's not an excuse. This is football. Sometimes (fairly often in fact) the best team doesn't win. That doesn't mean it's anyone's fault - though god knows if anyone is to blame we'll find them - sometimes you just don't get the rub of the green.

Surprisingly I disagree with most of your post...
we do know it was NOT our strongest team.
It was Lovrens fault, if he isn't caught out AGAIN by one simple ball he is not tracking back furiously and susceptible to exactly what occurred.
If he could position himself correctly he wins the first header,no dramas at all. He can't do that though proven many many many times.
We weren't good enough to win on the day, down to a number of factors, blaming it solely on the pen award is plain silly...

See the thing is, we know our strongest team if everyone's fit. I'd have Clyne and Lallana in our strongest team, but not right now obviously. All those getting their aprons in a twist about Phil and Bobby missing out have presumably seen them in training (or not in Phil's case) the last few days and know that they were at the top of their game. Presumably also when our form fell away last January none of them mentioned the players looking tired and that they should have been rested earlier.


I'd agree about Lovren though. Should have been able to win the header. I think he thought about it and hesitated which gave DCL half a yard on him.


As for good enough on the day, we were easily good enough. We had an absolute sitter on the half time whistle and several other chances such as Salah's header. On the flip side, Everton didn't threaten us once until the pen. We may not have done enough to get a cricket score, but we certainly did enough to win.

no training today probably, but I,d bet 1.01 that what ever was ailing poor old phil and bobby yesterday,wont be ailing them on wedensday, maybe a spot of xmas shopping today will have them cheery ripe

CCM

This is what I posted on the Everton thread earlier today........

As for the penalty - it was right in front of me and my angle was better than any TV camera - and I'd be livid if it had been against us. DCL's first movement was away from Lovren and when he stepped back in, Lovren put his hand up to stop DCL coming in to him, which was exactly what DCL was waiting for. Having said that, we've had enough wrong decisions against us there over the years that it felt like a dose of Karma.

Evening miss wales. Fair play mate, spot on. Exactly how I saw it.

Can't have been too enjoyable until the penalty I imagine?! Got the point though, and thought you were really well organised at the back.

From Palmieri's clip it looks to me (and the ref i assume) that DCL is moving away from Lovren towards the ball, then moves back towards Lovren to shield the ball and use his body, then at the same time 1) Lovren's left hand or forearm pushes him while DCL's feet are off the ground and 2) he falls towards the ball once his feet land. It looks as if he's been excessively rough/clumsy and pushed him over. That's all the ref had to go on and I don't think you can complain about the decision. I thought 'what an idiot' when I saw it live. He doesn't fall forward before the 'push', he is 'pushed' in mid-air and falls when his feet land, ie after.

If there was no left hand/arm shove, and I think there was, then it is a very impressive dive because he's managed to time it perfectly with the movement of Lovren's left hand, without being able to see the left hand moving towards him. Much better than a dive where you see the challenge in front of you and fall over it. I'd give it 9.9 in such case. But I don't think it was a complete dive, I think he felt the contact from the left hand on his back and fell over, as most managers would encourage a striker to do.

I disagree that Lovren's hand movement was natural too. A lot of savvy centre halves would allow him to bounce off his chest with arms out wide to show the ref he wasn't fouling. You don't put your hands on him in the box when there's no need and when he's going nowhere. I don't think Lovren's hand movement was natural or smart at all.

I don't think Lovren was smart but he raised his hands in self-defence.

DCL was too clever for him (and the referee).

Miss wales has it spot-on IMO, I think it is a reactionary thing from Lovern, (putting his hands up).

regards pundits, agree, beyond belief that they can say its a pen after several replays  - I mentioned in my post previous about referees -  its harder than ever for these guys, and I believe it is a different job now - I would assume that these professional refs will be reviewing stuff like this constantly - they have to have a review and a  dialogue and understand what is going on in the game, players are constantly trying to "engineer" (as POP says) decisions and making decisions about this needs to have context - it can't be just about what you see anymore - you have to look at context - handballs are a classic situation where a ref has to take into account proximity, body position (how can you give a handball pen when the hands are tucked into the body and someone shoots directly at the player?).

In some ways the case for video replays can be set back with these incidents - because we still see massive disparity in views despite endless replays and angles.

I think pundits tend to go with the flow i garauntee if that had not been given every pundit would have agreed with the decision but said the defender took a risk raising his hands

When if u look at the action in the box from a corner or free kick there's actually things that border on assault taking place and nothing's given

That decision you get I would say one in a hundred times

Similar thing happened in espanyol/girona last night but it was not given

Self-defence lol. Are you serious? He wasn't being assaulted. DCL was shielding the ball and using his body, not being dangerous. You don't put your hand on a striker's back in the box like that, if you do you are asking for a pen to be given. Let him bounce off your chest, it's not going to hurt & you're a big, strong centre half. If he doesn't put the hand on his back no pen is given.

The fact is it looked like he ran straight into him and pushed him from where the ref was standing and would be given nearer to 50% of the time than 1%

Exactly RP, I mentioned the decision (not given) in the Manchester derby, when basically a player was thrown to the ground. Some pundits can actually disagree with each other, but most are afraid to put their head above the parapet....Shearer just comes across as someone who is not particularly intelligent and has that trait of never being able to change his mind, allowing it to cloud his judgement on everything related that follows. To some extent, some folks are perhaps doing that with Lovern here...

We all have our views but there's only one that counts and it's gone now

Because flopp smiles a lot and his jokey jokey with the press it hides how deranged the German cheerleader really is

Jog on Anxious....

Wouldn't swap him for your destructive argumentative bore, that's for bloody sure....
More deflection tactics swallowed by press and you mugs again.
Played off the ****g park.

We just have to move on. When smaller teams with less quality face better opposition then the best they can do is defend for their lives, hoof it upfield and hope for a lucky break. It may not be pretty but it's understandable if managers such as Sam, Pulis and Mourinho choose to employ these tactics when needed.

it would be great to get mourinho, klopp, pep and a few others in the studio together to
be pundits for world cup

wont happen of course but getting their undiased opinions about a neutral game would
be worth watching , probably as much as the game .

unbiased

shearer, savage, wrighty and co can waffle on whilst i make a cup of tea in kitchen

I think Klopp is a pretty popular pundit on German tv for internationals. I'd imagine he'd be involved for them again.

the cricket comms work for multiple channels and mixed media, they even report what has been
said on overseas channels, it seems to work well enough.

football punditry is often the worst part of uk coverage with any ex player invited in

the debate on this thread has been far more enjoyable that bbcs rubber stamp

only one opinion counts

what does sue Johnson think about it,

allyp
12 Dec 17 11:07





In some ways the case for video replays can be set back with these incidents - because we still see massive disparity in views despite endless replays and angles.


- I think this is an excellent point.