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themover
02 Nov 16 01:49
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Date Joined: 25 Apr 03
| Topic/replies: 53,043 | Blogger: themover's blog


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Pause Switch to Standard View A thread for the Pep Guardiola doubters
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Report themover January 2, 2017 8:03 PM GMT
Who would you play? Caballero? Gunn?
Report ufcdan January 2, 2017 8:11 PM GMT
I'd look at getting a decent keeper in the transfer window, you and the scousers have to sort out the goalkeeper position. Imo Bravo no better and probably worse than Hart and that's not to insult Hart, I know he has his rickets but on his day a good keeper
Report themover January 2, 2017 8:53 PM GMT
You've criticised him for his insistence on playing Bravo. We have 3 keepers...Bravo, Caballero and Gunn available. You have to play one of them Tongue Out
Report OnePercenter January 2, 2017 9:23 PM GMT
You forgot Joe Hart.
Report themover January 2, 2017 9:28 PM GMT
Laugh
Report bigH January 2, 2017 10:36 PM GMT
Picking Jesus Navas is a big black mark against Pep
Report OnePercenter January 2, 2017 10:45 PM GMT
Told NBC he was nearing the end of his coaching career.

The Long Goodbye Laugh
Report OnePercenter January 2, 2017 10:55 PM GMT
Pep Guardiola's; made in Barcelona, broken in Manchester LaughLaugh
Report themover January 2, 2017 11:40 PM GMT
"I will be at Manchester for the next three seasons, maybe more, but I am arriving at the end of my coaching career, of this I am sure," he told NBC Sports, prior to City's 2-1 Premier League win over Burnley on Monday.

"I will not be on the bench until I am 60 or 65 years old. I feel that the process of my goodbye has already started."
Report Capt__F January 3, 2017 12:11 AM GMT
lost it
Report OnePercenter January 3, 2017 8:03 AM GMT
This explains the mindset behind yesterday's team selection.  #meltdown Laugh
Report OnePercenter January 8, 2017 9:14 AM GMT
I was wrong: Pep backs down and admits fault for City's woes... 'My ideas at times were not good, but I want England to change me'

It didn't take long for the Prem to knock the stuffing out of his ideas did it Laugh City will win sweet FA this year. Maybe next year Pep will target the League cup LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report scandanavian_haven January 8, 2017 9:37 AM GMT
Pep is in uncharted territory, never had this kind of competition before and it worries him.

There was no competition in Germany, they take any rivals best players and they were in a very good state before hand (treble winners), there was only 1 rival in Spain at the time, and when you have Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Henry and Eto'o at their peak, you are on to a sure thing.

Now in a league with real competition where it's more of a level playing field with they level of quality of players and managers in the top 4 or 5 being similar, managers like Conte, Mourinho and Klopp are the real deal, they've won titles and either CL's or at least the final.

For the first time, he is going to have to prove himself by winning a fair fight.
Report OnePercenter January 8, 2017 10:01 AM GMT
Fair fight? City have outspent every other club in England and Europe over the past 5 years.

City have taken very 1st choice players from Arsenal & Liverpool and been fined for breaching the FFP rules. City act exactly the same as Barca & Bayern. It is not a fair fight. They are the richest club in the world.

That City are not top of the league and still in the League cup is all down to Pep's pigheadedness and naivety and a few warm words to the press is not going to fix that.
Report scandanavian_haven January 8, 2017 10:57 AM GMT
yes but in terms of the level of quality in the top teams, it's about equal, at Munich in particular, it was very lopsided. For example City's defence you could actually argue look worse than Arsenal/United/Chelsea/Tottenham, their front 6 is slightly better than Arsenal's/United/Tottenham/Liverpool's, and Chelsea about the same. In other words with the current personnel, they are not streets ahead of anyone in the top 6.
Report OnePercenter January 8, 2017 11:51 AM GMT
While ever City are being bankrolled from the Middle east it can not be a fair fight. Liverpool & Spurs simply can not compete while ever City's owners are allowed to circumvent the FFP rules with their sweetheart deals on sponsorship.


Given their pulling powers on TV their shirt sponsorship deal should be on a par with Southampton not Liverpool or Arsenal.
Report scandanavian_haven January 8, 2017 12:01 PM GMT
money wise we all know they're on a different stratosphere

but other clubs right now are competing right because the difference in player quality is similar.
Report OnePercenter January 15, 2017 3:42 PM GMT
When City went 2 down he sat sumpted in his seat. The lad just isn't used to managing in a tough league Laugh
Report Kriskin January 15, 2017 3:45 PM GMT
The opening poster of this thread now looks like the t it
Report jon b January 15, 2017 4:04 PM GMT
City fans will be calling for Manuel Pellegrini to come back , to late ,he,l be earning mega bucks in China
Report OnePercenter January 16, 2017 12:52 AM GMT
Watching Stones panic everytime he is under pressure Pep must now realise how good that curly haired bloke was back in Barcelona Laugh

While Puyol was a warrior Stones reminds me of Frank Spencer.
Report betting_masta January 16, 2017 1:42 AM GMT
I'm still trying to work out John Stones. I reckon he's one of those fancy looking midfielders who looks alright on the ball but has no real end product. He's got no muscle. He doesn't look like a centre back at all.
Report thelatarps January 16, 2017 8:48 AM GMT
Fernandinho a big miss for city
He is the only one capable of playing the holding mid position so vital in the guardiola set up.
City are on an exciting project with pep.
The likes of stones are learning what pique at barca, pepe and ramos at madrid, boateng at bayern learned years ago.
When you play center back for these clubs your a55 is hung out to dry.
Blowing in the wind.
You are on your own. You better know how to defend because you aint getting any help and you better know how to pass the ball out of defence, because that is what we do here.
You can bang on about John Terry, Rio and Vidic, Carra all you like but those guys played in a comfort zone with 2 sometimes 3 holding mids in front of them.
Never under any pressure.
Long ball it out of danger. Park the bus against barca in europe.
All well and good, for the here and now.
But city are building a dynasty for the ages here...
That kind of small minded thinking wont cut it.
Thing is city are going to stick with Pep.
Ordinarily if a big club goes on a run like city are on at the moment then the manager gets the tin tack.
Not this time.
The players will have to ship up or ship out.
If the current bunch are not up to it, then with city's millions you can bet it wont be long before they find ones that are..
Report jon b January 16, 2017 10:11 AM GMT
Where are they gonna come from ?, the very best will always fancy the big 2 in Spain over a wet dreary Manchester all day long , others will prob fancy the German machine too , there is only so many real world class players out there and all are spoken for . Then there is the other issue ,is Pep the real deal ? , still to be decided even proved imo , any fool could of managed Munich to win that league  and Barca were always in a 2 horse race . For me he still has a bit to prove as a Manager , though I don,t doubt he can do a job he has had it easy so far , City have all the money in the world to buy any player on the planet etc but it doesn,t always pan out that way , can he get them , will he have time to rebuild ,have the owners the patience , maybe the pressure of the Prem will get to him and he fcuks off to China , who knows whats around the corner in the crazy world of football  .

btw listing Stones with those defenders is quite funny , Stones hadn,t even learnt his trade at Everton , money splashed and he was off , crazy amount for a young man not even a half decent defender when leaving Everton  , way to young  and shouldn,t be mentioned along side some of those great players .
Report thelatarps January 16, 2017 12:24 PM GMT
I am sure if stones was planted into the back 4 at chelsea or man u 10 years ago, shielded by midfield players like makelele, essien, hargreaves, darren fletcher, he would look a world beater too.
Lets face it, those teams asked little of those midfielders or defenders. Just to defend.
Maybe get 1 or 2 goals a year while the likes of lampard and drogba, roonaldo did the business.
Like i said that approach only gets you so far.
City and Pep are rasisng the bar.
Maybe Guardiola will fluck off to china a beaten man.
But he is going to be given time to get it right.
THere is no talk of sheikh mansour firing the ejector seat button in the aston martin, so to speak.
I am going to stick my neck out.
I bet Pep gets city to the ucl final before he leaves city...
Report lfc1971 January 16, 2017 1:08 PM GMT
^ that's the sort of dishonest thinking that doesn't address issues. A team doesn't become a good team because it plays comfortably from the back, a good team plays from the back because of its dominance and it is comfortable to do so.
Report thelatarps January 16, 2017 1:39 PM GMT
i agree with those sentiments lfc
but only wengers arsenal from the epl has ever tried to take on barca at their own game
Before pep tried it this year with city.
Got done 4-0 for his troubles but won the reverse.
Thing is city have won the epl, the one they want is the big one, the ucl.
The thinking is to do so you have to play possession football.
if you want to be a big player in the ucl, every year, you have to be playing possession football.
Like bayern, real and barca.
THere is a reason why wenger has been in the ucl 20 years running, because he plays possession football.
Man U, chelsea and liv have all had success, however fleeting, playing pragmatic football.
Sure they may play passing football against the likes of dynamo no-hope in the group stages. But when it comes to the knock out stages its full on park the bus mode when they go to spain.
Just dont think you can build a lasting dynasty with that thinking.
Good luck to pep i say.
Report OnePercenter January 16, 2017 1:40 PM GMT
Pep dropped Hart & bought Bravo and Bravo's stats are appalling;

24 shots on his goal, 14 goals conceded.

Yesterday 4 shots on target 4 goals conceded.

Bravo is the ultimate False N0.1

Stones can not defend, He is the Prem's ultimate False No.5.

Bravo & Stones both need dropping but Pep has too much invested in his philosophy of how the game should be played to do it. He ain't no Fergie Laugh
Report thelatarps January 16, 2017 2:19 PM GMT
Maybe bravo and stones are not up to it.
Just imagine how good city will be tho, if and when they find players capable of doing what pep wants.
Its a risk that certain other managers were not bold enough to take.
Report lfc1971 January 16, 2017 2:29 PM GMT
It is wrong to think that a team needs to do what pep wants. for a start pep doesn't understand cause and effect.
it is wrong to say that a manager is in charge, the team must evolve from within the players.
Report thelatarps January 16, 2017 2:34 PM GMT
Again, normally I would agree.
But what if pep is the second coming?
His record might suggest he is.
Got to be worth throwing the dice with pep, no?
Report lfc1971 January 16, 2017 2:35 PM GMT
He's useless
Report lfc1971 January 16, 2017 2:39 PM GMT
all a manager has to do is not make players worse by their stupid decisions
Report lfc1971 January 16, 2017 2:41 PM GMT
now if he plays players out of position, or asks them to play in a system that doesn't suit them then that is not good
Report thelatarps January 16, 2017 2:56 PM GMT
Guilty as charged your honour.
Report OnePercenter January 16, 2017 3:10 PM GMT
The second coming Laugh

We had all this bollox at the start of the season with tossp0t pundits raving about him flooding the midfield with fullbacks, it was brilliant, they had never seen anything like it in the Prem. Rent-a-gobsh!tes all of them.
Report themover January 16, 2017 3:14 PM GMT
Still in Champions League - check
Still above Manchester United - check
Report OnePercenter January 16, 2017 3:24 PM GMT
Steady as she goes on to the rocks.

Pep is clearly incapable of dealing with this mess Laugh
Report OnePercenter January 16, 2017 3:26 PM GMT
Funny how with the new Messial at the helm City fans are happy to be in 5th place 2 points ahead of United with our nightmare season Laugh
Report themover January 16, 2017 3:41 PM GMT
You can't still be hurting from the two cans of whoop ar5e Pep dished out to your boys in 2008/9 and 2010/11 finals? Laugh
Report themover January 16, 2017 3:45 PM GMT

Jan 16, 2017 -- 9:10AM, OnePercenter wrote:


The second coming We had all this bollox at the start of the season with tossp0t pundits raving about him flooding the midfield with fullbacks, it was brilliant, they had never seen anything like it in the Prem. Rent-a-gobsh!tes all of them.


Champions League final 2009 - he played big Yaya Toure in defence - result Barca 2 United 0 Laugh

Report thelatarps January 16, 2017 3:54 PM GMT
Well one things for sure
Watching city is never dull.
Seems like the world and his wife got an opinion on guardiola
Report OnePercenter January 16, 2017 3:59 PM GMT
You can't still be hurting from the two cans of whoop ar5e Pep dished out to your boys in 2008/9 and 2010/11 finals?

Messi, Iniesta & Xavi handed out the defeats. As we have seen from his failure to get reigning champions Bayern back into the CL final separated from these 3 Pep's record is decidedly average.

The pic you started this thread with is now an embarrassment and you insistence that everything is still okay will become one soon enough. Remember Pep was brought in to win the CL but first he has to qualify.
Report themover January 16, 2017 4:01 PM GMT
There was me thinking we are in the Champions League?
Report themover January 16, 2017 4:03 PM GMT
Messi, Iniesta and Xavi, like it or not were in Pep Guardiola's Barcelona team. Your argument is a bit like saying Ferguson wouldn't have won the 2007/8 Champions League if it wasn't for Ronaldo...does that make Ferguson rubbish Confused
Report anxious January 16, 2017 4:10 PM GMT
Mover I think the game on Saturday against Tottenham is now a massive yes massive game for your mob , if you were to lose I think Pep might become very depressed , thing is have your team got enough fight in them
Report themover January 16, 2017 4:15 PM GMT
bigger pitch, should be ok
Report anxious January 16, 2017 4:19 PM GMT
Forgot about that Laugh
Report themover January 16, 2017 4:21 PM GMT
Think it will be the same team that played at Everton, maybe Kolarov in for Clichy. Only lost once at home (Chelsea), think City's price is a decent one tbh.
Report anxious January 16, 2017 4:24 PM GMT
Is Fernandinho still suspended ?
Report themover January 16, 2017 4:31 PM GMT
Yeah he's out. Kompany back in training but doubt he's ready yet.
Report OnePercenter January 17, 2017 8:41 AM GMT
It's being reported in some of the papers that Pep is planning a clear-out (Big fcukin' surprise)

While he retains faith in Stones and Bravo he wants 2 new full backs, 2 new central defenders, a new striker and another goalkeeper Laugh

City have outspent every other club in Europe in each of the last 5 seasons. Pep has directed proceedings in the last 2 transfer windows. Are all those players not good enough. Did the new Messiah buy some duffers?

Yet more evidence that Guardiola hasn't a clue.
Report OnePercenter January 17, 2017 9:09 AM GMT
How much have City splashed out on players?

12/13        £52.66m
13/14        £98.60m
14/15        £75.06m
15/16        £179.77m
16/17        £181.05m

They have known Pep was coming for a long time so he will have directed the transfer policy. So nearly £400m later what have City got to show for such massive investment?
Report themover January 17, 2017 11:22 AM GMT
Gabriel Jesus, that should cover it Grin
Report themover January 17, 2017 11:43 AM GMT
"They have known Pep was coming for a long time so he will have directed the transfer policy."

Which players are you considering to be Pep purchases?
Report themover January 17, 2017 11:44 AM GMT
Bravo, Stones, Gundogan, Nolito ?
Report themover January 17, 2017 11:44 AM GMT
Sane
Report themover January 17, 2017 11:58 AM GMT
v
Report OnePercenter January 17, 2017 1:57 PM GMT
Everyone in at least the last 3 transfer windows. So from Summer 2015.
Report themover January 17, 2017 2:23 PM GMT
That would be :

Unal (£2m) - 19 yr old currently on loan at FC Twente, 10 goals in 15 apps so far
Sterling (£44m)
Roberts (£11m) - on loan at Celtic, safe to say they're pleased with him
Delph (£8m) - injured a lot, can't really imagine Guardiola saying "go get Delph" Laugh
Otamendi (£32m)
De Bruyne (£55m)
Caceres (£100k) - on loan at Melbourne City Wink
Bravo (17m)
Stones (£47.5m)
Moreno (£4.7m) - on loan to Deportivo
Jesus (£27m)
Sane (£37m)
Zinchenko (£1.7m) - on loan at PSV
Nolito (£14m)
Mooy (free) - on loan to Huddersfield
Gundogan (£20m)
Report TheChaser January 17, 2017 2:30 PM GMT
Hands of Tierney and Dembele
Report themover January 17, 2017 2:49 PM GMT
has Dembele packed his bags yet? Laugh
Report inner city sumo January 17, 2017 3:20 PM GMT
I'd trust the hands of Tierney and Dembele over Bravo's.
Report mega88 January 17, 2017 3:31 PM GMT

Jan 17, 2017 -- 8:30AM, TheChaser wrote:


Hands of Tierney and Dembele


Careful what you say in this fred

Report mega88 January 17, 2017 3:31 PM GMT
Mover is judge dredd
Report OnePercenter January 17, 2017 4:21 PM GMT
City need players like Delph to fill their home grown quota.
Report OnePercenter April 23, 2017 8:27 PM BST
Well, well, well; even after outspending every other club in Europe for the past 5 seasons it's potless season for the Messiah LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Dav_vin03 April 23, 2017 11:14 PM BST
moyes is better than pep
Report bigH April 24, 2017 4:34 AM BST
Navas (at right back!!!!WTF?????) and Clichy as starters tells you something is not right

Lay all day if those two are on the teamsheet
Report par April 24, 2017 9:15 AM BST
he may well have made his name on the back of Messi, Iniesta and Xavi.

I could have won everything with those three .
Report themover April 24, 2017 1:13 PM BST
congratulations, why didn't you?
Report OnePercenter April 24, 2017 3:46 PM BST
If the rumours of a £250m transfer budget are correct then the Sheik really is going all in with Pep. If that doesn't buy them the Champions league then what next?

That'll be the 6th year in a row where City have been the world's biggest spending club.
Report mega88 April 24, 2017 3:50 PM BST

Apr 24, 2017 -- 7:13AM, themover wrote:


congratulations, why didn't you?


You sound like u ready to explode Bro ??

Report mega88 April 24, 2017 3:56 PM BST
It's about getting the team in harmony and throwing money at big players is not the answer first good manager look at Chelsea no big signings yet conte got them whistling a sweet tune
Report OnePercenter May 28, 2017 3:34 PM BST
This thread has been quiet lately, How did the Messiah get on in the end?
Report DirkDiggler May 28, 2017 3:48 PM BST
Potless.
Report themover December 28, 2017 12:32 PM GMT

May 28, 2017 -- 9:34AM, OnePercenter wrote:


This thread has been quiet lately, How did the Messiah get on in the end?


Still early days but not too bad thanks Laugh

Report themover April 14, 2018 10:40 PM BST
Report themover April 14, 2018 10:59 PM BST
tobermory 01 Jan 17 18:48 Joined: 01 Mar 08 | Topic/replies: 43,750 | Blogger: tobermory's blog
City are a great example of how football is a lot more complex than just a table of 'net spend'

It took them 3 years from the takeover to go from mid table to title favs .That was the easy part ; replacing £7M players with £25M players.

At that point , in late 2011 , they looked a great side.

Since then they have spent fortunes and not let go a single player they wanted to keep . And they have never looked any better than they did in 2011.

Once you have a squad full of £25M players it is very , very hard to improve it , even with limitless funds and no FFP.

If one of your £25M players is not cutting it then what do you do  ? Replace him with another £25M player who is no guarantee to be any better .In theory you have limitless funds so can buy £40M , £60M players but there are hardly any players that most would consider genuinely worth that . And those that are worth that are mostly very happy at Barca or Real.

Grin
Report anxious April 14, 2018 11:56 PM BST
pray for more oil bitter bertie
Report tobermory April 15, 2018 12:47 AM BST
Sorry, what are you quoting me with smiley faces for ?

My point was that it is not so simple to be the best team by just spending the most.

If you are laughing at my post then i guess you do think it just comes down to 'oil rig' money after all.
Report themover April 15, 2018 9:14 AM BST
Not laughing, I'm agreeing. You'll still get the likes on anx suggesting it's all about money though Mischief
Report mesmerised April 15, 2018 9:23 AM BST
Pep Mythiola

0 Champions Leagues in 7 years.

You can buy the league, you can't but EuropeCool
Report PorcupineorPineapple April 15, 2018 9:24 AM BST
It's a cup competition. One bad performance and you're out. Never a good barometer really.
Report REDUNDANT PUNTER April 15, 2018 9:26 AM BST
It may not be all about money but it certainly helps it obviously increases the quality of player you can buy

Yes it needs a good structure top coach and stuff but it wouldn't be impossible for a mid table team to reach the top given unlimited funds

If someone decided on a project imo
Report REDUNDANT PUNTER April 15, 2018 9:29 AM BST
Plus if you don't win it you could appeal to the goals panel and point out that any own goals should actually be awarded to you as you players got the last touch
Report mesmerised April 15, 2018 9:37 AM BST
You judge the best managers by Europe not by what they do domestically. Pep hasn't been able to cut it for some time in the CL.
Zidane is a better manager than Guardiola, he is more dynamic, Guardiola insists on playing 1 way, Zidane had the nous to shut up shop away to City in the semis two years ago and slightly less so at home knowing the attacking threat they posed, Guardiola would never do that, that's partly why ZZ has won 2 in a row, something the Myth never has, not with Messi/Xavi/Iniesta at their peak, not with the treble winning European Champions Bayern who he took backwards and never made a final, and thus far, not with Moneybags.

Makes me laugh he can spunk 250mil on a back 5 alone and be praised as the best thing since sliced bread.
Report PorcupineorPineapple April 15, 2018 9:50 AM BST
Y'see that's where it's proven to be wrong. There's just no way Zidane is a better manager than Pep. Ask anyone with any insight of the game who the better manager is and only a fool would say Zizou.
Report mesmerised April 15, 2018 9:56 AM BST
Course he is, Pep's hero Cruyff had the same problem, had this infatuation of playing a certain way, not willing to compromise on his 'philosophy'.
Pep is limited in his thinking.
Report themover April 16, 2018 12:34 PM BST
you'll be telling us Wilshere is world class next Laugh
Report themover April 16, 2018 12:35 PM BST
mesmerised • April 15, 2018 9:37 AM BST
You judge the best managers by Europe not by what they do domestically.

Presumably on that basis Alex Ferguson wasn't much good?
Report anxious April 16, 2018 12:56 PM BST
Sir Alex Ferguson  European Cup winners Cup 1983 Abberdeen 2 Real Madrid 1
                   European Cup Winners Cup 1991 Manchester United 2 Barcelona 1

                   Champions League    1999 Manchester United 2 Bayern Munich 1
                   Champions League    2008 Manchester United 1 Chelsea 1  6-5 penalties
                World Club Championship 2008 Manchester United 1 Ld  Qiuto 0

                   Champions League    Runner up  2009 , 2011
Report mesmerised April 16, 2018 12:58 PM BST
Ferguson built United from the ground up, pep won two CL when he walked into a club already with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta, it's a bit different.

He is obviously a good manager, but let's not pretend  outspending everyone doesn't help.
Report REDUNDANT PUNTER April 16, 2018 1:10 PM BST
Some clubs have no European heritage
Report themover May 20, 2019 4:25 PM BST

May 28, 2017 -- 9:34AM, OnePercenter wrote:


This thread has been quiet lately, How did the Messiah get on in the end?


Still doing ok thanks Grin

Report Capt__F May 20, 2019 6:52 PM BST
laundering the cash
Report tobermory May 20, 2019 7:51 PM BST
PorcupineorPineapple comes out best on this thread; just need upgrade the fullbacks and it will all work like a dream
Report ffaith May 20, 2019 8:03 PM BST
The English dominant Europe and Man City dominant England ergo Man City should be ruling Europe but they are not.

At best he's been a 6.5/7/10 IMO.  He doesn't help himself by saying a domestic treble is harder than winning the UCL as well.
Report themover May 20, 2019 8:43 PM BST
surprised no one else has done it as it's easier
Report PorcupineorPineapple May 20, 2019 9:01 PM BST
Cheers tobes.

Need to pack in betting and start my own football consultancy.
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