Football
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13 Apr 14
14:49
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09 Mar 08
Come on Liverpool chests puffed out get that trophy.
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Replies: 31
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bad taste
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How the feck is it bad taste you fool.
Shouting for a win here. Against my own team. The fans deserve it. |
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come on city win it for all the innocent police officers slaughtered at the alter of popularism by a weak government who blame the miners for being trampled down by police horses,trapped into altering their notebooks for fear of defence lawyers pulling apart any case if their statements don't match identically.
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your dad a policeman cuth? only reason you could stick up for the scum. or perhaps you are? TRASH
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I stick up for whats right and fair ,given the climate at the time what else could the coppers do,it was just a accident no more no less,if anyone should be blamed it is the f.a for holding the game at an unsafe ground ,on a personal level - every man u fan I know hates scousers more than city.
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sure it was... and the cops accidentally ran record checks on all those that had a couple of drinks in their system?
you're a good example of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" |
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and how about the match commander (i.e. the man who was in charge of every copper there) lying about drunken fans smashing open a gate. was that an accident? or did he connive and contrive knowing that it was an easy way out for him?
Where exactly is the accident in all of this? |
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the argument is - who is responsible for 96 fans dying - the answer is no one, it was a set of events leading to an accident,it aint the polices fault cos they tried to find evidence of who was to blame or to deflect any blame from themselves.unlike the Guilford 4 ,or the miners strike they didn't set out to deliberately kill 96 fans.
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i'll refer you to the taylor report (both interim and final) and ask you to read them, as you clearly haven't
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The 1990 official inquiry into the disaster, the Taylor Report, concluded that "the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control."
they didn't set out to deliberately kill 96 fans. no sh1t sherlock, but how exactly does this fit in to your accident hypothesis? mug |
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Heysel? Who was to blame there?
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not sure what you're getting at no idea but if you're intimating that it's OK for cops to lie because a minority of Liverpool fans caused deaths at Heysel then you need to go back to school.
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In this instance they are the victims. Victims of an orchestrated campaign to blame the fans for the police/authorities failings.
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They were also responsible for getting English clubs banned from Europe. In my opinion Liverpool should have been banned from Europe for ever. But hey guess what, they win the Champions League, but fail to qualify, so moan and scream until they are allowed in, and get the rules changed. Imagine in the future the mighty Liverpool finish fourth in the League, but a team outside the top four wins the Champions League, no doubt the rules will be changed again.
Always the victims, never at fault. "The most sporting crowd" maybe twenty years ago,today whistled all the time City had the ball, sporting my arse. |
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What does all that have to do with looking for justice for the 96 who lost their lives?
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Whatever the ins and out of that terrible day, I wonder if I am the only person who recalls being at the West Ham end for the West Ham v Ipswich FA Cup semi final of 1975 at Villa Park.
As a fifteen year old with my dad, we got there early on an all-ticket day and found a perfect viewing position halfway up the old open terrace (was it the Holt end?) With only a crash barrier in front of us before the drop to the walkway between the two halves of that terrace we had a tremendous view. But then a terrible crush developed and only my dad's strong arms prevented me being crushed against that barrier. A lot of people that day gave it up and squeezed under the barrier onto the walkway, in effective giving up their view of the match, because of the crush that only eased after halftime. Afterwards we learned from the police that the turn style operators that day had started to allow ticketless fans in for £1, thus causing a big crush that could have easily been Hillsborough but fourteen years earlier. So, I have long wondered if that was the same reason so many extra people got into that terrace for the Liverpool tragedy? On another note, yes Hillsborough was a tragedy but why are so we so mawkish about everything nowadays? Not a weekend seems to pass without a football match having a minute's silence, a minute's applause, a tribute, black armbands or something else to remember the passing of someone. It has all become a bit much now and tends to devalue when a tribute is more worthy - like today was because 96 innocent people dying was a sad and awful, regardless of why it happened. |
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There is an ongoing inquest. You already seem to know the result. I'm just trying to put the constant winging into context. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!
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25000+ liverpool fans at Heysel were clearly without sin
Theknight, there were no "additional" fans in pens 3/4. there were just more than there should have been given inept policing and poor stadium design. |
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Well the police have started charging some of their own over the altering of statements so it is safe to assume at least part of the judgement will favour those who died.
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As it happens, I was at Hilsborough at the 81 semi final. There was an awful crush that day. If you want to blame anyone it's the FA and Sheffield Wednesday you should be looking at.
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I'm sure the FA will come out of it whiter than white
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I disagree. The police made mistakes that day but it is the cover-up that is damning.
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Was it an all-ticket Charlton 2005?
Did any of the official reports say there were more fans than should have been in those pens? I have no idea what happened but why did more fans than there should have been end up in there? That day at Villa Park, the police admitted turning a blind eye to what the turn-style operators were doing because it relieved a dangerous crush building up outside. But then they stopped further admissions when they realised what was developing inside and took steps to disperse the crowd outside. The real point is that Villa Park that day saw one thing lead to another and the police make errors with decisions 'on the fly'. I suspect the latter happened at Hillsborough but nowadays we must attribute blame and be oh so very wise after the event. In reality, life is just not lie that and, tragically, things do sometimes go wrong and get out of hand. The media behaved badly after Hillsborough and have never left it alone since. Not because they want 'justice' (what that means in this context I don't really know) but because it is an easy story to whip up strong feelings about. |
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So how would did the cover up cause 96 people to die?
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It was the mistakes that caused the deaths but it was the cover-up that besmirched the names of the dead.
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The Knight, at Hilsborough there were areas or "pens" but no control over which pen people went into. The natural flow would lead to too many in the central pens, and in the days of fences no way to get out,
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OK gotcha...I see.
The difference at Villa Park was that it was just one huge terrace and the crush was across the whole expanse and people escaped onto the walkway. Yes, the fences were the ultimate problem but why were they there to start with..? Sadly, two reasons. 1/ A minority of football fans from ALL clubs over the 1960's 70's and 80's behaved so badly 2/ The establishment way of dealing with football hooligans was to put up fences (thus harming everyone) instead of taking out those caught with stinging prison sentences.... At least Hillsborough brought sense to football stadiums and why nowadays there is a call for 'safe standing' I don't know. |
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I was at Villa Park for the semi in 82 on the Holt end, and didn't see any problems.
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Almost certainly because nobody without tickets was allowed in illegally for a £1!!!!
That was the point of my first post.... |
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At Sheffield in 81 most of us went by train, we were forced onto buses and taken to the ground. There didn't seem much to be done but get in the ground, so I'm guessing there weren't so many late arrivals.
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'Safe standing' is a recipe for disaster.
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