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11 Sep 13
09:30
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01 Mar 03
It's a long list to choose from but that was the worst England performance I have ever witnessed.
The apologists will bang on about the result but what is the point of grinding out 'results' if we, the public, can't see any improvement or plan beyond 'keep it tight, be organised, don't lose'.
Hell's teeth I'm not even asking for something soul-stirring and uplifting! It's a Roy Hodgson team we're talking about here and one containing James Milner, Ricky Lambert and Kyle Walker. But to be able to go 'I see, we are trying to retain posession in midfield and spring Walcott or the overlapping fullbacks' or 'Gerrard to bring the ball out and try to find Lampard / Wilshire in space between their midfield and defence, and then create something in the final third', would be a start.
But can anyone honestly say they saw ANYTHING amounting to a plan, when we had possession? Beyond 'lump it up to Lambert' I mean?
Of course, the execution of passes, positional awareness, awareness of colleagues running off the ball (yes Theo Walcott, that's you, a thousand times you, you headless chicken!) you can take as read that an England player will never have technical ability in these areas. You have a spasm of excitement if they manage to execute a simple wall pass, even if this is in midfield.
We'll stink the place out if we qualify for Brazil, with our artless, ugly, grim 'English' (non) football.
The apologists will bang on about the result but what is the point of grinding out 'results' if we, the public, can't see any improvement or plan beyond 'keep it tight, be organised, don't lose'.
Hell's teeth I'm not even asking for something soul-stirring and uplifting! It's a Roy Hodgson team we're talking about here and one containing James Milner, Ricky Lambert and Kyle Walker. But to be able to go 'I see, we are trying to retain posession in midfield and spring Walcott or the overlapping fullbacks' or 'Gerrard to bring the ball out and try to find Lampard / Wilshire in space between their midfield and defence, and then create something in the final third', would be a start.
But can anyone honestly say they saw ANYTHING amounting to a plan, when we had possession? Beyond 'lump it up to Lambert' I mean?
Of course, the execution of passes, positional awareness, awareness of colleagues running off the ball (yes Theo Walcott, that's you, a thousand times you, you headless chicken!) you can take as read that an England player will never have technical ability in these areas. You have a spasm of excitement if they manage to execute a simple wall pass, even if this is in midfield.
We'll stink the place out if we qualify for Brazil, with our artless, ugly, grim 'English' (non) football.
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Well said Rog, the way the media reacted was as if we had just beaten Germany. Qualification should have been achieved long ago in this group, it's a minor miracle that England have their fate in their own hands.
Yes you can't win anything if you don't qualify, but equally well, you would like to see some signs of improvement / strategic direction, otherwise what's the point?
We know how this will all pan out.
Muscle and hump our way to qualifying, by the skin of our teeth, probably via a play off.
Eight months of hype and intelligence-insulting platitudes from players and management, followed by a life-or-death decider in game three of the Group stages, where we'll be under the cosh but will score off Danny Welbck's ar$e, before our hoofing and inability to execute basic techniques gets found out against the first opposition against which 'organisation...commitment and Gary Cahill flinging himself in front of goalbound shots' is not enough.
Then the return home, the 'we must learn from this' rinse, repeat adding a few whistles and bells and new multi-million pound contracted manager, and expect something different next time round.
We know how this will all pan out.
Muscle and hump our way to qualifying, by the skin of our teeth, probably via a play off.
Eight months of hype and intelligence-insulting platitudes from players and management, followed by a life-or-death decider in game three of the Group stages, where we'll be under the cosh but will score off Danny Welbck's ar$e, before our hoofing and inability to execute basic techniques gets found out against the first opposition against which 'organisation...commitment and Gary Cahill flinging himself in front of goalbound shots' is not enough.
Then the return home, the 'we must learn from this' rinse, repeat adding a few whistles and bells and new multi-million pound contracted manager, and expect something different next time round.
British football is now at an alarmingly poor standard.I was at the Welsh game last night and whilst Serbia are a decent little team,they were so vastly superior to Wales in technicality and fitness,it was an absolute embarrassment.And the Welsh team had 10 premier league players on the pitch.
As ive banged on many times on here over the years,it's all about the coaching the kids get from 7 years old to 16 years old........despite Barcelona showing that size doesn't matter if you are good enough,the vast majority of young British football teams and coaches base their whole team around the big boys.Just because you have a 13 year old who's bordering 6ft and he's not afraid to "get stuck in" he shouldn't be captain.Can he see a pass?.....can he play it out from the back?...can he bring a high ball down with instant control?.Until the answer is yes to those last 3 questions,Britain will continue to produce performances(and players) like the Welsh,England and NI performances last night.
As ive banged on many times on here over the years,it's all about the coaching the kids get from 7 years old to 16 years old........despite Barcelona showing that size doesn't matter if you are good enough,the vast majority of young British football teams and coaches base their whole team around the big boys.Just because you have a 13 year old who's bordering 6ft and he's not afraid to "get stuck in" he shouldn't be captain.Can he see a pass?.....can he play it out from the back?...can he bring a high ball down with instant control?.Until the answer is yes to those last 3 questions,Britain will continue to produce performances(and players) like the Welsh,England and NI performances last night.
the game v italy was worse.
im all fro tactics but that was extreme to say the least......and completely embarrasing
im all fro tactics but that was extreme to say the least......and completely embarrasing
Whilst agreeing broadly with the consensus what else do you expect with the appointment of Hodgson? What you see is what you get,no risk defensive football.
Ok we've had some telling injuries but the headless chicken from Arsenil , the all purpose defensive Milner although 100% trier is certainly not an attacker and the useless Young shouldn't be anywhere near the team.
Ok we've had some telling injuries but the headless chicken from Arsenil , the all purpose defensive Milner although 100% trier is certainly not an attacker and the useless Young shouldn't be anywhere near the team.
the england U21 this summer were a huge embarrassment, with pearce questioning commitment in the post mortem, but in truth are next crop seem even further behind technically
Young has only been useless for England since Hodgson took charge
Yes GB there is an element of truth in that, however someone has to take responsibility.
I went to the Croatia decider at Wembley infamous for the man with the brolly, his selection of goalkeeper and centre half that day was crucial in the result.
Buck stops........
I went to the Croatia decider at Wembley infamous for the man with the brolly, his selection of goalkeeper and centre half that day was crucial in the result.
Buck stops........
Yes, you need quality players like Wes Hoolihan.
Trapatoni is available now, perhaps you would prefer that.
Trapatoni is available now, perhaps you would prefer that.
can someone tell me how colombia, portugal and netherlands are currently longer odds than england to win the world cup?
The funniest thing is that this took place after a week of bluster and wholesale agreement that England had to make drastic changes from top to bottom as far as international football goes. A lot of references to the Germans - how they decided enough is enough about a decade ago and stopped going after short term results in favour of building something for the long term - and how we should do the same. Not going to happen though is it ?
Every qualifier against some ever-dividing east european state is a "must not lose" game
Every qualifier against some ever-dividing east european state is a "must not lose" game
Sep 11, 2013 -- 12:18PM, snooki151 wrote:
can someone tell me how colombia, portugal and netherlands are currently longer odds than england to win the world cup?
Wait until they qualify (IF).......mugs on here will be wanting to back them at 10's.
Money from Brazil ! 
it doesn't compare 100% perfectly, but picture the world cup as the prem. do england make the top 10? if so, only just - would a top ten team be available to win the league? no. we are as far behind spain, germany etc as west brom are from the top 3 in the prem yet we are 25's to win the tournament! 
What baffles me is that 8-10 years ago, it was pretty unamious, that despite acknowledging the qualities of both Gerrard and Lampard, that didn't work together, we worked that out nearly a decade ago, but a decade on, they are still together. Dont get me wrong both in their own right fantastic players, but neither has a great first touch and neither has an ounce of pace, the incident where Walker got booked, Gerard wasn't even quick enough to foul the guy. Wilshire doesn't look fit to me, so you flood the midfield with 3 players, devoid of pace, you have to have outstanding technical ability to make up for it.
Our technical ability is woeful, the Premier League has no interest in what the national team do, so maybe its time for some rational thinking, install an Under 21's manager from the Championship or league 1 (Lee Johnson springs to mind) who can identify a group of 16-18 year old lads from smaller clubs and play a style of football that is at least in keeping with the term entertainment!! Maybe this way a 17/18 year old lad from Oldham/Peterborough/Watford whoever, when they get to that level are both willing to learn and proud to put on the England shirt (which cannot be said for many of the successful Prem boys if you beleive Stuart Pearce).
Our technical ability is woeful, the Premier League has no interest in what the national team do, so maybe its time for some rational thinking, install an Under 21's manager from the Championship or league 1 (Lee Johnson springs to mind) who can identify a group of 16-18 year old lads from smaller clubs and play a style of football that is at least in keeping with the term entertainment!! Maybe this way a 17/18 year old lad from Oldham/Peterborough/Watford whoever, when they get to that level are both willing to learn and proud to put on the England shirt (which cannot be said for many of the successful Prem boys if you beleive Stuart Pearce).
What infuriates me more than anything is this " If we went for it we would have come away losing 1-0" comment, or variations of it, feck me, you had Lee Dixon even spouting that it could have been 2 or 3 at half time if we tried to come out and win!!! Who fooking says so!!! yes we're cr&p, but so are they for heavens sake, the whole negativity with England is NEGATIVE NEGATIVE NEGATIVE!!
The problem is that Lampard and Gerrard are both outstanding players. Outstanding Premier League players. Both have had storied careers in English League football. Both, however, are unutterably useless at International football, and with the exception of Lampard between 2003-6 and Gerrard in one game in 2001, always have been.
For the same reason, you might as well pick me and my dad as play Milner and Lambert in proper International football matches.
You can really get the lowdown on our lack of ability when you hear Hodgson lamenting the unavailability of Rooney - the absolute worst player at South Africa 2010, Wellbeck, who is all but useless, and Sturridge.
Bottom line, when your first team contains Milner, and your plan B is to bring on Ashley Young, and idea so idiotic not even David Moyes would consider it, then you should just stop playing football altogether.
For the same reason, you might as well pick me and my dad as play Milner and Lambert in proper International football matches.
You can really get the lowdown on our lack of ability when you hear Hodgson lamenting the unavailability of Rooney - the absolute worst player at South Africa 2010, Wellbeck, who is all but useless, and Sturridge.
Bottom line, when your first team contains Milner, and your plan B is to bring on Ashley Young, and idea so idiotic not even David Moyes would consider it, then you should just stop playing football altogether.
What England could do with doing is throw some youngsters in now and take any hit that may come but in the process it will give them a good grounding with a longer term view looking at the next euros, actually that is what the England cricket team is doing with these one dayers....and are getting blasted for doing so.
You absolutely do not want to 'throw in some youngsters' !
Into what? Like Duffy says, a negative, tactically bereft, no direction melting pot where athleticism is prized over over technical skill?
Let this present lot continue, with the 'jobs for the boys' (totally echo what jed and baker boy say about Lampard and Gerrard, but party on Roy if that's the kind of tripe you want to serve up). Maybe, when Hodgson's reign ends in inglorious failure - which it will, how could it not - then maybe we take up Greg ****'s challenge and REALLY embrace change from the grass roots up.
....else stick in the same old same old and just keep adding 4 more years to the 'hurt' in the Three Lions song.
Into what? Like Duffy says, a negative, tactically bereft, no direction melting pot where athleticism is prized over over technical skill?
Let this present lot continue, with the 'jobs for the boys' (totally echo what jed and baker boy say about Lampard and Gerrard, but party on Roy if that's the kind of tripe you want to serve up). Maybe, when Hodgson's reign ends in inglorious failure - which it will, how could it not - then maybe we take up Greg ****'s challenge and REALLY embrace change from the grass roots up.
....else stick in the same old same old and just keep adding 4 more years to the 'hurt' in the Three Lions song.
That made me laugh!
Betfair has censored ****.
Betfair has censored ****.
its not right to say gerrard has been useless at international level, when at club level he has come up against far harder and more superior team than he has eith england against the likes of andorra, moldova etc, when hes faced the likes of brazil and france and italy, he is compleltly let down by the managers inability to spot that playing him alongside lampard doesnt work, lampard holds him back, hes always needed a xabi alonso type player alongside him, not frank 'goal poacher' lampard hoovering around the penalty box feeding off scraps
...a point that has been blatantly obvious for 10-plus years, and that successive England managers, extortionately well paid to make make tough decisions (like dropping one of them for good), have repeatedly ducked.
Aside from us having dreadfully average young players and top grade players who are past their prime, the main problem is Hodgson and Lewington. Can you get a pair of more dour, negative dinosaurs?
We have zero chance of improvment with these people in charge.
We have zero chance of improvment with these people in charge.
I imagine Hodgson will guide us to a 0-0 second round match against Croatia in the world cup, where we will lose on penalties.
How can you say Hodgson is the main problem? England have reached the semi-finals of the World Cup twice ever, one of which was in England. We've reached the semi finals of the Euros twice ever, and one of those was in England. By contrast, Germany have reached 11 World Cup semis and 8 Euros. We simply are not a top footballing nation, yet time after time each manager gets the blame!
Did you see the game last night? It was absolutely dreadful.
We know we don't have many top players, but at least try and be vaguely entertaining.
We know we don't have many top players, but at least try and be vaguely entertaining.
Roy Hodgson is a spineless old dinosaur, Liverpool supporters knew it, were mocked for criticising the "nice old man" but were spot on.
Hodgson is rubbish, I'm just saying if you think he is the MAIN problem then you are ignoring a lifetime of English mediocrity.
I don't expect them to win anything. I just want to be entertained. Under Hodgson they literally can't string 3 passes together.
Gus Hiddink should have been given the job, the fa invited him to an interview as one of their candadates - i mean ffs, his record is there for all to see, at internation level, 2 semis with holland and south korea - south korea! he turned doen the chance to be interviewed and so would, you either offer him the job or dont bother contacted him. He's football is attractive too.
watch the best countries in the world and you will see two things they do that england never does - they close you down so quickly and have much better ball retention, when england played italy last year pirlo had all the time and space in the world, in the final hardly had a touch v spain, and pirlo was the difference in the at game v england.
The managers ARE the main problem - if del bosque or lippi or ferguson or mourinho were in charge of the current team they would be turned into winners,
english managers are useless - how many english manager have ever reached a champions league knockout stage in the last 21 years - just 'arry.
1000+ UEFA A coaches in a country of 62 million people is shamful when its the national sport, there are 12000 in spain
watch the best countries in the world and you will see two things they do that england never does - they close you down so quickly and have much better ball retention, when england played italy last year pirlo had all the time and space in the world, in the final hardly had a touch v spain, and pirlo was the difference in the at game v england.
The managers ARE the main problem - if del bosque or lippi or ferguson or mourinho were in charge of the current team they would be turned into winners,
english managers are useless - how many english manager have ever reached a champions league knockout stage in the last 21 years - just 'arry.
1000+ UEFA A coaches in a country of 62 million people is shamful when its the national sport, there are 12000 in spain
the most telling picture of last night for anyone still awake was lewington and hodgson embracing each other as though the world cup had been landed embarrasing,
i was embarrased to listen to andy townsend banging on about getting the ball in behind for walcott, and if he can just start his runs 20 yds deeper hem,d be in [as if the oppsition woudnt react ] it was like listening to grans and grandads watching their 8 yr olds on hackney marshes, the sheer excitement of the commentators when 2 passes were completed was shameful,for christ sake bryan robson would do more in a match than these prima donnors do in a career, its football from the dark ages
i was embarrased to listen to andy townsend banging on about getting the ball in behind for walcott, and if he can just start his runs 20 yds deeper hem,d be in [as if the oppsition woudnt react ] it was like listening to grans and grandads watching their 8 yr olds on hackney marshes, the sheer excitement of the commentators when 2 passes were completed was shameful,for christ sake bryan robson would do more in a match than these prima donnors do in a career, its football from the dark ages
sorry but away in crucial World Cup game with weakened squad aint the time to worry about being 'entertaining'
"the most telling picture of last night for anyone still awake was lewington and hodgson embracing each other as though the world cup had been landed embarrasing,"
Yes it was - I cringed when they started congratulating one another.
Yes it was - I cringed when they started congratulating one another.
this is a signal of the pure old pals act at the fa which i posted about 6 months ago, without hodgson been manager lewington wouldnt be in the next 1000 people to be coach,how in the countrys top job you can give your mate a million quid a year post is beyond me
one of the reasons hodgson was removed from liverpool as manager was his negativity especially away from home. he,d set us up to not lose rather than ok we,re better than this lot just go out and do them. he seems to have the same footballing ethics for every club he manages, or country even. nice enough fella but a one trick pony
TRAP IS AVAILABLE.....HE CANT STRING 3 WORDS OF ENGLISH TOGETHER....SO SHOULD SUIT..
Most of our players can't string together 3 coherent words of English so maybe you're onto something..
As for the national side, whoever is manager will always play second fiddle to the premiership.
As for the national side, whoever is manager will always play second fiddle to the premiership.
dunno about always.
it will crash badly one day when the tv money starts to decline....which it will at some point
it will crash badly one day when the tv money starts to decline....which it will at some point
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