What has ruined Football ?

Bosman

Greed mle4me, agents being the key behind that.

Clubs/owners, paying players more than they are worth.

1.Infinite lending and owners who play with monopoly money
2.Statisticians who dont let the teams taking risks.

Television money.

the love of money is the root of all evil

Betting

As with most things - women getting involved must have something to do with it (nap)

capitalism

It hasn't been the same since we replaced that old heavy leather ball and done away with cabbage patch pitches.

All the millions that have sky could easily change that.Wont be many full stadiums this year in EPL AS FOR SPL I DREAD TO think how many will be there at the winter games.Also Celtic have shut down the Green Brigade aka signing section so it will be even worse.

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as for that picture did he not warm up before the game

Arsene Wenger has ruined football, I blame him for most things

jimmy hill

Fans who constantly hark to "the good old days".

tv money

The good old days was a level playing field,much better than the crap we watch now,derby County,Aston villa,Nottingham forest,THE GOOD OLD DAYS.oh and liverpool.

Why were they a level playing field?

'Best league in the world' horseshít peddled constantly by sky imo

Remember when ITV bought the rights for £290m for 3 years and made it all back from advert revenue only? That improved the game but didn't ruin it.

You now have a G20 group of clubs, a cartel which ensures that they are at the top end of domestic and euro competition every year hoovering up all the gravy for themselves and starving their leagues, Euro comps and all fans of real competition, that's what he means by the good old days Mr. Angry. When a villa, derby forest could win the league (or Euro Cup)

the championship is a better league, taking the competitive nature of the entire league as a whole, not talking about the quality of football

Because they all won big tournaments which is now impossible to do,for clubs of their stature barring liverpool.

I accept that money has changed the game.  But ruined it?

We have the best stadia in the world, the best pitches, fantastic tv coverage, the world's best players - a real success story which is the best / among the best in the world.

Surely that's something to be proud of?

Greed, arrogance, diving, feigning injury, all seater stadiums, the Premier League, Rupert Murdoch, over commercialization.....

That's just a list of things you don't like.

bollOcks it is, the only reason you have all that is because you pay the highest price in the world to watch your national game on tv, and the highest prices in the world to go and support your team. If any other country allowed it so rampantly it would be the exact same. Oh wait Spain do it also, where the 2 best player in the world play and where there is also zero real competition for the prizes.

is because you pay the highest price in the world to watch your national game on tv, and the highest prices in the world to go and support your team

Yes.  The football fan public is forced to the cashpoint every month to extract £45 to pay to the TV company, and another £50 for a seat at the stadium.  Failure to pay results in castration.

basically you are allowing yourselves to get búmmed left, right and centre by tv cos and the clubs you support for what you are told is the 'best league in the world' by the sky propaganda machine. Absolute and utter horsehít.

I didn't say you were forced to pay anything, you are not but you still do (not talking about you personally, but the fan in general)

I do.  I'm more than willing to pay the TV subscription fee to watch all those world class players.  Sorry.

But I wouldn't pay to watch the Australian Soccer League.  What would be the point?

Best players for the few,I include my team in that few and I should be grateful,however the wealth should be shared to even it all out.Watching top football at the prices charged is not a level field for the smaller clubs,plus the fiddling of figures to justify clubs turnover its all crazy.It cannot be good for the game as a whole,ask any portsmouth fan.

but you don't have to pay for that, you can watch it free on here

Tv cos can make enough money from ad revenue and still pay huge money to the league to improve the game.

Sky's monopoly on live games was broken up a few years ago, that should have resulted in competiton and reduced prices for the fan. But now we have to pay 1.5 times as much for full coverage.

With digital tv we have 4 itv channels and 4 bbc channels and they could have 10 each if they needed them, so they could show just as much football as BT/Sky do.

So what would be a solution?

Fixed wages for players, which all clubs can afford.  Then it becomes a game of "which club can attract the best players".

Even with that, I still think most players would want to play for the biggest clubs in the world - eg: Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man Utd, Bayern Munich, Chelsea, Inter, Arsenal, etc.  Why would a player choose Swindon, or Liverpool?

The only way to make it truly "fair" is to have play drafts.  But then this becomes a "closed" league, so most teams would miss out anyway.

Sometimes life is not "fair".  As William Munny said "deserve's got nothing to do with it".

true FFp would be a start, you would still have the big clubs having more money, which was always the case and we still had villas, leedseseses, newcastles challenging for the league.
it would be more about how well and efficiently a club was run and managed, a well run club like dortmund can bridge the gap in germany because it is not so finacially doped a league.

A well run/managed club like villa, forest, derby could bridge the financial gap with efficiency and a great manager. that is impossible now, it is purely about $$$. Now it is about getting a sugar daddy to bridge the huge gap. it has nothing to do with true footballing, tactical & managerial skill anymore

if there was true ffp, there wouldn't be as big a wage gap between the top 4 and everyone else, more clubs could win trophies and players would be attracted by trophy prospects

the longer it continues with the same clubs hoovering up the prizes at national and international level (and all of the top players every year as a result), the bigger the gap gets every year and the less competitive the league gets

I think you view history with rose-tinted glasses.  Football has NEVER been fair, where any team can win.

Before the PL, look at this list of winners.
Leeds
Arsenal
Liverpool
Arsenal
Liverpool
Everton
Liverpool
Everton
Liverpool
Liverpool
Liverpool
Aston Villa
Liverpool
Liverpool
Forest
Liverpool
Liverpool
Derby
Leeds
Liverpool
Derby
Arsenal
Everton
Leeds
Man City
Man Utd

Please tell me how this is "fair".  Where do the small clubs get their chance?

The premier has never been competitive,if you are below top 5,united have had the monopoly for too long.

we are now in an age where the EPL could set up its own channel, get all of the subs and ad revenue for themselves (and presumably massively reduce prices for the fan). They could do that and reduce prices but the authorities, players, clubs and tv cos all have the same vested interest in charging the fan as much as possible, so i wouldn't hold my breath. They are all creaming it from the same gravy train.

Liverpool has a monopoly for 2 decades.  How was that "fair"?

Personally, I'd like to see a European Super League - the biggest teams in Europe playing in a full-season league.  "Super Clubs".

true Mr Angry, bigger clubs usually take the title, but look at the list of runners up for those years

    Manchester United
1990/1991     Arsenal     Liverpool
1989/1990     Liverpool     Aston Villa
1988/1989     Arsenal     Liverpool
1987/1988     Liverpool     Manchester United
1986/1987     Everton     Liverpool
1985/1986     Liverpool     Everton
1984/1985     Everton     Liverpool
1983/1984     Liverpool     Southampton
1982/1983     Liverpool     Watford
1981/1982     Liverpool     Ipswich Town
1980/1981     Aston Villa     Ipswich Town
1979/1980     Liverpool     Manchester United
1978/1979     Liverpool     Nottingham Forest
1977/1978     Nottingham Forest     Liverpool
1976/1977     Liverpool     Manchester City
1975/1976     Liverpool     Queens Park Rangers
1974/1975     Derby County     Liverpool
1973/1974     Leeds United     Liverpool
1972/1973     Liverpool     Arsenal
1971/1972     Derby County     Leeds United
1970/1971     Arsenal     Leeds United
1969/1970     Everton     Leeds United
1968/1969     Leeds United     Liverpool

Southampton, watford, ipswich QPR

Yep, pretty much proves my point.  Still the same old names.

Euro Super League would be more damaging than anything we have seen yet, all across Europe. I don't think away fans could manage it either

eh, not the same old teams at all really

And before you continue to talk about small clubs like Derby / Forest winning the title, remember that it was BRIAN CLOUGH who was the first manager to pay £1m for a player (Trevor Francis)!

The wage structures,was the leveller during those times,a lot of home grown talent not imported players,in order to monopolise. Liverpool were a great team at that time,I would like to. Compare the wages,in relation to todays.Cloughandtaylor to blame for it all.

they were still a relatively small club tho compared to their rivals, that money came from on the field success which is no problem to me. Completely different to a sugar daddy's money or commercial revenue, off the field reasons.

The English team's decline has a lot to do with clubs over-reliance on being able to spend hge tv money to buy players. Gone are the days when clubs won the euro cup with local talent

Gone are the days when clubs won the euro cup with local talent

Agreed.  Much better quality these days.

you could have as much or better quality with home grown players if you knew how to train them properly from day one like spain and germany do

you could have as much or better quality with home grown players if you knew how to train them properly from day one like spain and germany do

Yeah, possibly.  But then it's all relative.  "Much better quality" is ultimately compared to other "quality" from other countries.  The winners are deemed "best" and the rest losers.  So you can be doing all the "right" things and still lose.  I think this is where England is at now.  Huge sums have been poured into coaching in this country.  Fantastic training facilities, world class coaching. 

Perhaps it's just a case of numbers.  England population 60m.  World populate 6bn.  England population  1% of the best talent be English?

England u21 have just ruined any thoughts that Scottish football was improving.

World pop is 8bn. Spain and Ger pop is relatively similar to England but they are streets ahead. Spain tore up their training manuals after a dismal home performance in 82 WC. Players like Xavi and younger are the first players to grow up under the new system and you can see they have a conveyor belt on the way all thru their youth levels as a result of their training systems.

They have far more home grown players in their league too because clubs at the lower end don't get nearly as much tv money as lower level English clubs and can't rely on signing foreign talent. You even get huge payments for 3 years after relegation from EPL. There is no reason why England shouldn't be as good as Ger and Spain in terms of producing talent and at national level given there is more money in English football. So, no, it's not a case of numbers at all.

perhaps we will see it turn around as a result of all of these new facilities/coaching you talk about. But not for maybe 10+ years and certainly not while even the smallest top-level clubs are signing foreigners to play in their first XI

and for as long as relegation from the EPL can put the whole existence of the club at risk, it is unlikely to change

CHARLES HUGHES.......and sthat should end the thread

The players are too tall. Anyone over 6ft. can not play football.

That includes goalkeepers.

LFC beg to differ, Rudd Guillt, Frank Rijkaard, Marco Van Baston, were a 6 footers's dream team in the 80's

Van Baston i agree, fabulous player, but it remains true. Even for goalkeepers ideal height is about 5.7

Most of them can not play football!

Agree, modern day footballers lacking something, even the 6ft players at Bayern Munich look very mechanical, goalie Neuer included.

Nothing has ruined football.

I agree with Mr.Angry....it's beeter than ever

pretending to be injured
pretending to be fouled

the game is rancid

Football is 10 times better now than it's ever been. Can't keep games on from before 2005 on for more than 30 seconds when they are on tv.

'anyone over 6ft cant play football'

Ruined which part of football?

Atmosphere? Families, aka us.
Removing players from the "real world" and putting them in some kind of financial bubble? Us.
Having owners from all over the world who have no real interest in the game? That'll be us.

It's our fault because at every turn we've acquiesced. To being put in cages, to Thatcher, to all-seaters, to Sky, to the modern day player, to every fecker going, we've let them take over what was once the working class game. So if football is ruined, it's our fault. We did it.

And then if once in a while a group of supporters try to stand up and say "Enough", do the supporters of other clubs get behind them and support/help them?
Do they fck. They ridicule and snipe. And then whinge that the game is being ruined.

if u had 30 mins a side with clock stopped when ball is not in play you would have a far more honest game. no more tactial play acting........making subs for no reason etc the game would flow. this is the one change i would like to see implemented. its a no brainer.

lurka is on the right track. watching the english premiership is no longer watching english football due to the high percentage of foreign players and as a result, in my opinion, is the cause of our failure to achieve success internationally. ok, we get to watch the worlds top footballing talent every week but we have paid the price and failed to do more for our own talent. so yes, english football in particular, has been ruined.

Football has not been ruined, certainly not in England anyway. Football in England is better than it has ever been. It will be better next season than last, and it was better last season than the season before.

You may, like the Luddites, rue the changes that have occurred, but ultimately, football is shaped by great men, just as it always was. Those great men's services may come at a price, but the fact is that that those who love football are more than willing to pay that price.

It's all very well railing against the modern world, but it is what it is. And English football, far from being the victim of venality, is in fact almost its greatest beneficiary. The right people - those who provide the entertainment, the players - are the ones who get the money, and because of that, the ones who pay the money - the spectators and the TV viewers - see the best players. It's a virtuous circle.

When I think back to the days when I first started watching English football, I thank SKY and all its works that it has brought about the changes which it has brought about. Even the worst team in the League has players who would have been playing abroad not so long ago, and the best teams are so good, and so full of talent, that it makes the football I saw in the 1970s look like a totally different and unevolved sport.

You might lament the days when Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa won the European Cup, but those days could still come again, if great men took charge of those clubs. Swansea City have shown that it is possible to break the ceiling if great men have the vision, so in their own way have Manchester United and Arsenal over the last couple of decades.

It is not all about money, it is about great leaders, and great players. And it always was.

i agree with most of your views jed. i too enjoy watching this imported talent, but it would be better if  we saw this great football played by "more" native players.

I'm 33 years old and can honestly say that I have been privileged in the last 15 years or so to witness the best players in the world choose English football to ply their trade.  As a Chelsea fan on the old benches it started with Hoddle bringing in Gullit and Gullit bringing in Vialli and Vialli bringing in Zola........  If anybody thinks these players make English football worse off, then I'm sorry but they are wrong!!  In terms of fairness of the league, there's only one thing that can really work in my opinion and that's a Europe (at least) wide salary cap by team - FFP is only there to make the big teams bigger.

football in general has not been ruined, it has ivolved to what it is today with better football than ever. however, other countries have not let this effect there home grown talent the way we have. we have not adapted our youth training and resources to keep up with other countries that do better then us internationally, which from my point of view is a shame.

more entertaining if you support a top 3 club imo, worse for everyone else, ie the vast majority

football has not been ruined.......its has evolved today into a test of mans strength, character, honesty, professionalism, decency and above all, what matters the most SPORTSMANSHIP............when a guy gets "touched" and rolls around in agony
, he is doing so for safety reasons and to avoid near death...........when he does a triple high flop swerve in the box, he is again doing so for safety reasons. o yes the game is in great shape

CHEATING, MORE CHEATING AND ANOTHER BIT OF CHEATING JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT...............THATS WHAT I SEE...........I DIDNT SEE IT LIKE THIS 25 YEARS AGO.

Gullet,vialli,zola,for one good player how many average to poor players came milked the system and left,ballotelli for one.

http://www.****tips.com/2013/08/16/premier-league-does-money-buy-success/

purpleplacetips.com.....

The ball bounces, it never used to.

Liverpool were in div2 when Bill Shankly picked them up, unless my memory has completely gone, turned them into European champs (though he retired the year before they won it).

Clough and Taylor did the same thing with Derby and Forest, Football was such that genius could overcome the top clubs.

Maybe Zola will achieve it at Watford, with those players that seem to change between the three clubs owned by the Potto family.
When football had rules and not loopholes, Robert Maxwell was told to sell Derby or Oxford as the league would not allow both.

Never mind though, the money men took the the game from the fan and handed it to the viewer, enjoy.