Zenit fans laying down the law

bet hulks tickled pink

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...burg-fan-group

Its just been on Sky News!

doesnt adriano play for them too?

sweetchildofmine 17 Dec 12 16:28 
bet hulks tickled pink




it seems they accept him, Alves and also Witsel (who has Carribean roots) because they are not African and therefore not seen as 'fully black'.
Andrew Mat is a Zenit fan from St Petersburg (i think), he could probably explain more.

hulks traditionally green

Didnt Justin Fashanu play for them??

Dec 17, 2012 -- 4:33PM, REDUNDANT PUNTER wrote:

hulks traditionally green

no he didnt play for them

Stupid fans....will they say the same when they are sick in hospital and looked after by BLACK ppl?

black people looking after them in hospital, which doctors or nurses

Having visited Russia on a number of occassions I am going to guess that the chances of them being treated by a black person in hospital in St Petersburg is about the same as them making Mandela a life president of the club.

Dec 17, 2012 -- 4:41PM, REDUNDANT PUNTER wrote:

black people looking after them in hospital, which doctors or nurses

Witch Doctors??

I am originally Spanish and was in hospital looked by black nurse in uk...I am greatful to them

Well, that is NOT a new info

it is to us

Zenit fans were always like this, Hulk and Witsel are considered so-so players

It's a ridiculous policy.

Andrew - if Zenit went out in January and bought say Drogba, Yaya Toure and then Doumbia from rivals CSKA, would their fans not accept any of them?

Biscuit, Zenit bosses will never do this, as they know their fans. It will lead to serious riots and it will cost Zenit a lot

BBC is alreafy on their way to Peterburg to film new movie about russian racists!!!!

and what are your views andrew

tehy are lucky hulk is green

SCOM, I am not a fan of Zenit and surely not a fan of this policy

Dec 17, 2012 -- 4:39PM, gotia wrote:

Stupid fans....will they say the same when they are sick in hospital and looked after by BLACK ppl?

black ppl in russian hospital :))))))))))))))

sorry somebody mentioned you were..ok i was just wondering if they were extremist views or more widespread amongst fans

There are a lot of racists here in SPb, several black students were killed some years ago by them, so yes, you can call the sutiation being quite extremistic.

Dec 17, 2012 -- 5:24PM, jin_kazz wrote:

BBC is alreafy on their way to Peterburg to film new movie about russian racists!!!!

Well I suppose they have to try and save some embarrassment after the Ukraine/Poland farce

Suarez on his way to Zenit in January.

we aint far ahead of them in engerland

i still remember the chants are everton are white, and team posters with black players
altered in just about every bar in newcastle

Typical of Russia.

Give them caviar and they would sell it for a couple of potatoes, they can't think outside their own limited presence in the world.

Srichaphan, shut the f1ck up, racists are always racists, and you don't do any favour to your intellect with such statements

It is typical of Russia, is it not?

Black people are shunned in most institutions in Russia, gay parades are banned, women are not allowed to criticise the government. What type of society runs like that? Quite pathetic.

Give them caviar and they would sell it for a couple of potatoes, they can't think outside their own limited presence in the world.

Is that why they have bought out half of Europe's most valuable property?

Im talking about the average Josef Public, not the oil tycoons.

Black people are shunned in most institutions in Russia, gay parades are banned, women are not allowed to criticise the government. What type of society runs like that? Quite pathetic.

Britain only 40 years ago

exactly, Britain was pathetic too in its attitudes.

I never understand why people think they have the right to stop other people from doing things which are not causing them any harm.

Russia wil change as well. A handful of football extremists are hardly a portrayal of society.

But they are though, quite representative of views throughout Russia.

It is quite remarkable when most of their leading politicians are probably closeted gay men, like in the UK.

Dec 18, 2012 -- 4:09PM, Srichaphan or Ancic? wrote:

It is quite remarkable when most of their leading politicians are probably closeted gay men, like in the UK.

You realise how ridiculous that sounds don't you?

This isn't exactly new news is it.

Years ago when Zenit had Arshavin, their manager Dick Advocaat moaned that he was restricted because the fans would not tolerate black players. Also remember a Zenit fan offering a banana to Roberto carlos

It's just a case of Russia being a few decades behind the West in terms of attitude to racism, they will grow out of it just like the UK etc have done/are trying to do. It is right to criticise it but a little hypocritical too in a way

I think FIFA need to take action on this and do it the right way.

Russia are set to hold the World Cup in 2018, take that away from them. If they don't want to facilitate for players that play for their own clubs, then why should they be allowed to host an international competition.

Ban them from the Euros, World Cup Qualifiers and any club competitions like the Champions League and Europa league and make their RPL a second rate league.

This would make the fans happy as they would keep the Russian league for Russian players and well; internationally Russians wouldn't have to interact with any other nation in footballing terms.

This is the way you go about kicking racism and homophobia out of football, kick the offenders out of football. People will soon learn.

I wonder if FIFA will fix the draw so that no African side gets drawn to play in St Petersburg.

Would be highly embarrassing for Blatter and his cronies to have 60k fans hurling abuse at whatever nation gets drawn there.

Dec 18, 2012 -- 5:10PM, Biscuit1979 wrote:

I wonder if FIFA will fix the draw so that no African side gets drawn to play in St Petersburg.Would be highly embarrassing for Blatter and his cronies to have 60k fans hurling abuse at whatever nation gets drawn there.

And how many other teams are going to be in the same boat, England, France, Brazil amongst many non-African nations will have black players; even if just one in team there's going to be abuse every time they touch the ball. FIFA were aware of this situation when the choice was made, unfortunately money talks.

they have 6 years to sort it out before then, and if it isn't sorted I'm sure the authorities will make it very clear in advance that if they embarrass the country on the international stage there will be very serious consequences and make an example out of them if they do.

Dec 18, 2012 -- 4:04PM, Srichaphan or Ancic? wrote:

Black people are shunned in most institutions in Russia, gay parades are banned, women are not allowed to criticise the government. What type of society runs like that? Quite pathetic.

Ah yes, the great Britain's on their high horse yet again. If any of you may remember (and I know some are very selective) during the UK riots in 2011 Sky News did a poll to say what action should be taken against the rioters (whom were mostly black btw) and 33% said "Live Ammo". Hmmmmmm...

And if yous are so equal why do I always hear in football crowds "you Spanish/Italian/French/African t***" and not to mention the witch hunt going on in the media against basically every foreign player in the league and the consistent "we need more English players in our team". What is the difference between that and "we need more white players in our team"?

I said it before, get your own house in order.....

You do talk some tripe.  If people had said use live ammo on the black protesters, then that would have been racist. 

What is the difference between that and "we need more white players in our team"?

Who said that?  Theses fans said they didn't want any black players in their team.

Yes but I get the feeling alot of the English media are getting their claws into this story in a huge way because they feel they deserved the 2018 WC and are still bitter about that. Instead of ever focusing on the good points about the country all they harp on about are the minority.

There are people with that attitude in all countries, England are no angels when it comes to anti-racism.

Clearly by all responses in Suso thread it is more than acceptable to gay bash in Britain today.

Not sure what high horse you Englanders are riding.

Dec 18, 2012 -- 4:46PM, lurka wrote:

It's just a case of Russia being a few decades behind the West in terms of attitude to racism, they will grow out of it just like the UK etc have done/are trying to do. It is right to criticise it but a little hypocritical too in a way

It isnt hypocritical of me. I have never been discriminatory in this way, so easy for me to criticise. They won't grow out of it while they don't allow freedom of expression via the media. It is the media and democracy that promotes tolerance.

They said they don't want any black players in their team, not that they want less of them.

Blatter is himself discriminatory in his attitudes anyway, so why would you expect anything else but money to talk as far as he and his cronies are concerned?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9284186.stm

He is probably a closeted gay man too, which is why he introduced the bookings for players taking off their tops, to prevent anyone noticing the bulge in his trousers prior to presenting trophies.

SoA i'm not saying you were being hypocritical, I am saying that in Western Europe we have tackled racism and stamped it out (partially only, not fully by any means) and now we are getting on our high horse criticising countries that are only a very small amount of time behind us, relatively speaking. That is hypocritical. If there was never racism in Western Europe or if it was completely stamped out long long ago we wouldn't be hypocritical, but that is not the case. That last post of yours makes you sound like a cretin too btw

Why does it? It is well known that men and women who try to deny their sexuality are actually antagonistic against those who refuse to do the same.

as a russian i can say that it`s a shame
we fought against hitler , these idiots forgettin that

Is it wrong that I suggest that a particular man who is involved in a high profile job in a sport that every country plays is hiding his sexuality? Why is it wrong? Is it offensive? Would he be offended by it, and if so, isn't that his prejudice at work not anyone else's in his reaction of offence to that? Does he deserve to have these questions asked seeing as in the article I posted it shows that he made fun of a particular question being asked of him in a press conference and then refused to elaborate because of the shame of having his actual views/possibly self-repression revealed?

If black men and women go to the World Cup in Russia and hold a protest about discrimination they will be arrested, just as if gay men and women protest, or even reveal that they are gay, would be in Qatar. Should these countries be allowed to host the tournaments, and if so, are the views of these Russian fans merely encouraging that type of discrimination? I don't think sport should be independent of these moral discrimiations. Politics yes, but basic human rights, which Russia at least is signed up to, should not be ignored in favour of money when these decisions are made.

South Africa would never have hosted the World Cup while apartheid was in force. Why should Russia, if these views are widespread, be any different?

speculating that he 'probably' brought in bookings for players taking off their tops to prevent anyone noticing his erection? Absolute nonsense, they still take their tops off anyway

'probably', ie more likely than not. Ridiculous comment

the conclusions you jump to are unbelievable. Why should Russia? maybe because they have been awarded it already. SA would not have been awarded the WC during apartheid, Russia has been. How do you know what people will be arrested for in Russia in 6 years time?

You didn't just suggest that blatter was hiding his sexuality, you suggested that he brought in bookings for taking off tops so that people wouldn't see his erection, even tho they still take off their tops despite the bookings. FFS mate WTF are you on about.

I hope Roman Abramovitch dont take same view at Chelsea
we will lose half our team

Suggest to me another plausible reason for that rule being introduced.

SoA

Could the reason be that Blatter being an older man comes from a generation, and this might surprise the arrogant present one such as yourself,but a better generation than ours, that thought it was important to behave with modesty and dignity

And could i suggest as  in your attempt at amateur psychology regarding repressed homosexuality, perhaps those who are most vociferous in condemning others of racism could be surpressing their own racism likewise?....just asking

Maybe they saw Djemba-Djemba play and thought they were all the same.

Dec 19, 2012 -- 10:34AM, ebulGery wrote:

I hope Roman Abramovitch dont take same view at Chelseawe will lose half our team

he's not russian, he's jew

but i like the way you think

Amateur psychology, no. Qualified psychology yes.

Don't assume that because someone uses a gambling forum that they are not qualified in what they are talking about.

i like when people from english league (in which racist scandals are happening every month) are blaming every other country for HUGE racism. even if the reason for this is some fans speeches

and one guy already wants to cancel WC in russia

ffs :))))

if he were a gay man surely he'd be all for them taking off their tops, I can't believe I am even discussing this. It could be any number of more plausible reasons, integrity of the sport, being a conservative who is reluctant to see the game change and wants to keep it the same

And dont assume that qualifications mean that someone is free from their own prejudices,or the human condition

This does show the strides the UK have made in this area.  Was it as recently as 1988 that we had the "Everton are white" chants when John Barnes joined Liverpool?

"South Africa would never have hosted the World Cup while apartheid was in force. Why should Russia, if these views are widespread, be any different? "

It's a fair question.

"in which racist scandals are happening every month"

You think Russia and the UK are comparable in terms of attitudes to racism?  Seriously?

It might also under similar reasoning Java be fair to suggest that the world cup should only ever be held in democratic maybe exclusively European countries

The UK is 20-30 years ahead of Russia here, that is all. So England shouldn't have hosted the 1966 WC then? It is a bit rich that a country deals with a racism problem (partially) and then gets on its high horse criticising other countries which haven't (yet). Racism could be stamped out a lot between now and 2018 in Russia, who knows? Highlighting the Zenith fans stance will only help see it stamped out.

Dec 19, 2012 -- 11:59AM, Java wrote:

"South Africa would never have hosted the World Cup while apartheid was in force. Why should Russia, if these views are widespread, be any different? "It's a fair question.

fair question but a bit late after they have already been awarded the competition

Ask the question beforehand, not afterwards

As if they didnt know about these things before they decided. Are you that gullible? Money talks.

Russia when all is said and done is a great nation with a glorious history and deserves to hold the world cup.They have been one of the greatest nations in world history

agree
they are entitled to their point of view

I assume they would still not be allowed to heckle black players because of colour

SoA are you saying I am gullible? You asked why Russia should host the WC if SA was never awarded it? It is a moot point, they have already been awarded the WC. Of course they knew about it, it was no secret, yes money talks, we can see that from Qatar. But questioning Russia after the fact is pointless. There were similar issues in Ukr/Poland this yr and it didn't stop them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20781804

Russia does not operate apartheid
Coloured players are allowed to play there and I assume have all the rights of white citizens
I assume no racial heckling will be allowed

changing what people feel deep down is more difficult it takes time

At least Zenit came out and condemned the statement, need I remind you of what Chelseas response was in the Terry scandal?

People in glass houses comes to mind

It is not so long ago that a recently defunct British club banned players of a particular religion. This was enshrined in the club's constitution, not simply enforced by the fans (their influence in keeping that religion out lasted for many years after it was removed from the constitution). While the club now admit players of that religion and the fans sing their praises, the said fans still hate them as a group.
The Russian thing is worse in that you know that the state and the institutions have no interest in changing things and see no shame in it. To the Russian contributor who was ashamed and said 'we fought Hitler' - was that not perhaps because Germany invaded your territory? You felt no great desire to help the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto and indeed pogroms are a regular part of your history. A downtrodden people must exhibit their hate in some way. Dictators have always known and used this.

Srichaphan or Ancic? is completely insane. WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT?
PHILtheBIGOT being his usual retarded self, shaking with envy at the standing of his pathetic nation on the world stage

puts the premier league so called issues into perspective

If a football club from say South Africa announced that their club was founded by black people and historically was represented by Black people and would like to continue with that policy ,I would think good luck to them,but it would be racist .

Barcelona were a racist club for a long time.

The same applies to Athletico Bilbao, but there is a subtle difference. Barcelona and Bilbao said that this was their history and they didn't want anyone else, as would be the case of your hypothetical South African club. The other examples are of teams saying that they specifically did not want one other particular group and so had a targeted hatred rather than a protective pride. If Glasgow Rangers had said that they only wanted Scottish Presbyterian players they could have had some respect, but the didn't. They said that they didn't want Catholics. Zenit are not saying that they only want Russians.
I am not in favour of the closed groups in anything other than a Sunday league, but they do have more justification than the other kind.

how does anyone tell if a player is gay
are they the ones who wear the pink boots
or do they have little flowere stitched on their shorts or something