" Have you won the Europea Cup" Villa to Arsanal fans

We have never been in the Europa cup

Arsanal haven't either

Brummies cant pronounce the letter n . When Chelsea sing it ,it is "Have you won the European Cup"

Neither have Chelski... not sure they ever played in the European Cup

but the Champions League... different matter.

so

Chelsea didn't win it either in the truest sense of the word. More 'stole it.'

After being taught a football lesson frequently they did a 'smash & grab.' Same as the mancs v Bayern. The best side never won it.

History will remember the sole Euro Cup win as being the 2nd flukiest behind the MAncs v Munich.

jealousy. and bitterness are dreadful emotions

valur, iceland
dynamo berlin, germany
dynamo kiev, Ukraine
anderlecht, belgium
b munich, germany

1982

Wouldn't stand a chance today, they beat pub standard sides back then mostly..

Steau Bucharest 1986

History will remember beating the worlds best team with 10 men and winning in Munich v Bayern probably up there with the best .

I thought Chelsea didn't do history.

mesmerised 24 Nov 12 18:21 
valur, iceland
dynamo berlin, germany
dynamo kiev, Ukraine
anderlecht, belgium
b munich, germany

1982

Wouldn't stand a chance today, they beat pub standard sides back then mostly..


Bit harsh. Top european club sides from back then in belguim and ukraine often had best of national
players playing for them. Not like today were all play abroad.

SY - the guy's a wind up merchant ignore him

Wind up merchant is latin for offensive, thick as two short planks, shytehawk

Steptoe

You are correct it was, and considering they won it it about 5 years before I was born I'm not an expert on how those teams played

Eboue is blocked for making personal attacks last week.

Charwell and Benitez have alot in common.

Indeed we do.

Knowledgable, witty and hung like baboons.

Both hung like baboons and still not enough weight to break through Fergie's net

You make a good point steptoe. Most leagues also had a quota on foreign players and were mainly home grown players making the standard across leagues more even.

Trips to countries in eastern europe were much more trickey than they are today.

The European cup was much easier to win pre Champions League.
forest won it twice playing fewer difficult games than Man City have played in this years group stage.

city played 6 times, forest would have played 9

Back in the day you firstly had to win your national title to enter the competition. The national leagues were much closer aligned. Most players stayed in their own country so leagues like holland, portugal, france, sweden, were much stronger. Eastern europe had good teams red star, Hagi's steau etc.

These days the champions league is dominated by a small group of teams from europes big 4 leagues.

How people can claim it's harder to win now when money talks is madness?

With 1 entrant per country and better players more evenly distributed made it much harder. These Eastern European countries were very tricky to negotiate away.

How people can claim it's harder to win now when money talks is madness?

With 1 entrant per country and better players more evenly distributed made it much harder. These Eastern European countries were very tricky to negotiate away.

not to mention the gruelling seasons in those days - 16 man squads, resting players was unheard of and an extra four league games back then.

It's.easier.to.win.with.all.this.seeding.and.not.actually.being.champions.of...

Peoples opinions on whether it was harder to win back then or not tend to coincide with which team they support. Odd that.

Problem is, people tend to look at the sides who were playing in Europe back then & relate them to their current day sides. It's a bit like a German claiming the competition was easier back then because Nottingham Forest won it twice. Whereas, those of us who were around at the time, knew that Forest, under Clough, were formidable opponents. When Liverpool won it for the first time in 1977 we beat German champions Borrussia Moenchengladbach. They had players like Vogts, Stielike, Bonhof, Heynckes etc. All were key players in the West Germany squad that won the 1972 European Championship, & the 1974 World Cup. They also had Danish forward, & European Footballer of The Year, Allan Simonsen in their team. Sides like Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, & Barcelona were still about back then. In 1981 we beat Bayern in the semi-final, & Madrid in the final. Funnily enough, no-one seems to mention that year when saying it was easier to win, because in their eyes, beating those 2 teams is perfectly acceptable because they're judging them on current standings.

No contest here ,you get the top four teams from Italy,S

No contest here you get the top four teams from England ,Spain ,Italy and Germany in it now ,so instead of playing Bruges at Wembley you have Barca and Real Madrid Utd and Chelsea ,A C Milan and Inter in there ,rather than Malmo the Swedish champions who would not even qualify these days . Scousers as always are happiest in the past

See, the problem there is the word "these days." In order for that to be a reasonable argument you'd have to negate the passage of time and the fact that football isn't exactly as it was in the 70s and 80s.

What you seem to forget Mr Hunter, is that if we still played under the old format you wouldn't have had the pleasure of seeing your dear old Chelsea become champions of Europe. Liverpool were the best around during our dominant period, regardless of the how the competition was set-up. I have the luxury of saying that because it's true. Chelsea are still some way off. But now you've got a decent manager in......Who knows.

1977
1st Round - Crusaders 2-0, 5-0 (7-0)
2nd Round - Tabzonspor 0-1, 3-0 (3-1)
Quarter-Final - St Etienne 0-1, 3-1 (3-2)
Semi-Final - FC Zurich 3-1, 3-0 (6-1)
Final - Borussia Moenchengladbach 3-1
WINNERS

1978
2nd Round - Dynamo Dresden 5-1, 1-2 (6-3)
Quarter-Final - Benfica 2-1, 4-1 (6-2)
Semi-Final - Borussia Moenchengladbach 1-2, 3-0 (4-2)
Final - Bruges 1-0
WINNERS


  Look how Liverpool won it , you cant compare it with the champions league .

It was a very soft competiton back in the day insofar as there were few potential winners in the tournament and the number of games needed to win it were extremely limited so it didn't impact too much on the domestic season.

The second time Forest won it they got to the last 8 by beating just Oster and Arges Pitesti. Compare that with todays never ending group stages.

The European Cup and Champions League are not really comparable. Look at the year when Forest first won it. They drew Liverpool who had qualified as holders in the first round. The only 2 teams from the same country in the competition and they managed to pair them up. Can you imagine that happening these days!

and now look at Chelsea last season .


2012
1st Round Group
Bayer Leverkusen 2-0, 1-2
Valencia 1-1, 3-0
Genk 1-1, 5-0 (1st place)
2nd Round - Napoli 1-3, 4-1 (5-4)
Quarter-Final - Benfica 1-0, 2-1 (3-1)
Semi-Final - Barcelona 1-0, 2-2 (3-2)
Final - Bayern Munich 1-1 (won 4-3 on penalties)
WINNERS


  Liverpool in 78 was a bit of a joke really.

Today's clubs have bigger squads to cope with the extra games. The group stages are set out to ensure, that more often than not, the 2 best sides make it through. There was cannon-fodder when it was played under the old format, just in the same way there is cannon-fodder today. Only difference being, is that there is more of it now-days. Manchester United have competed in the CL for around about 20 seasons now & have only won it twice. They're one of the biggest, & richest, clubs in the world. Yet take a look back at some of the sides that have knocked them out of the CL during the past couple of decades. It's not always been a Spanish, German, or Italian giant. They ridicule Liverpool because we only beat a Swiss side in the 1977 semi-final. Strangely enough, after getting beat by Basle the other year they don't bring it up that often. probably also because they played an equivalent side in Schalke in the semi-final a couple of years back.

Let me just remind everyone that the UEFA CUP was much harder to win back before they brought in the CL format. The teams that finished 2nd, 3rd, & sometimes 4th, in their respective leagues, entered into the competition, unlike now where they go into the CL. Liverpool won that trophy twice in the 70's (1973 & 1976). So not only did show that we more than capable of beating the respective champions of each country, we also bettered their other top sides too.

The simple fact is, Liverpool would have still won what we won irrespective of how the competition is set-up. We were the best in Europe & proved it 4 times in 8 years. Pretty much in the same way that Barcelona have shown they're the best today by winning it 3 times in 6 years.

Marxist,look how many games a team has to play to win the Europa.Far far too many.Add in the FA Cup,mickey-mouse Cup,and I think that makes up the diff. between the old 42 game season,and the present 38 game season.And,of course,13 games if you go all the way in the Ch L.

I think it's harder to win now because nobody has managed to retain it in the 'Champions League' era. That's about the closest thing to evidence that we have in comparing the two eras of the competition.

RedRebel:
The simple fact is, Liverpool would have still won what we won irrespective of how the competition is set-up. We were the best in Europe & proved it 4 times in 8 years. Pretty much in the same way that Barcelona have shown they're the best today by winning it 3 times in 6 years.

I agree.

Let me turn this debate on it's head. I've already pointed out that Chelsea wouldn't have won the CL under the old format. So bearing in mind just how good Bob Paisley's Liverpool side were. How many times would we have won it had we been allowed to enter in the years we didn't win the league ?

Makes you think doesn't it ?

Well they won the UEFA Cup in 1976 red and were in the EC every year thereafter till Bob retired in 1983 so that argument is probably not valid.

Even in 1981 our worst league finish under him we won old big ears.

Never understand why people try and undermine Liverpool's achievements.

Sir Bob is still the most successful manager in the history of the competition as well.

Always thought they got the names the wrong way round...should have been Champions Cup and now the European League.

I think that is spot on, UEFA sold out with the "Champions League" - the top clubs wanted to have their cake and eat it - remaining in their national leagues and make a small fortune in what is basically a mini European League.

Clubs like Brugge in the 70s were much stronger than they are today.

There side would have included Belgium internationals - Belgium reached the euro final in 80 and were 3rd in 72.

In 76 Brugge got to the Uefa cup final beating Roma, Milan and Hamburg. In 78 they beat Atletico Madrid in the quarters and Juventus in the Semis. They were no mugs.

Well they won the UEFA Cup in 1976 red and were in the EC every year thereafter till Bob retired in 1983 so that argument is probably not valid.

You're right mate. It wasn't until after I posted that realised it.

You're also right about people playing down Liverpool's achievements. Bob Paisley won 3 European Cups, & the year after he retired in 1983, Joe Fagan won a 4th, along with the league & League Cup. Fagan said himself that he was embarrassed to take any credit because it was Bob's team, & all he to do was put the teamsheet on the wall each game.

It's true that Paisley inherited a good team from Shanks. However, he developed our style in such a way, we became an all conquering footballing side. Shankly always liked his wingers (Peter Thompson, Ian Callaghan, Steve Heighway). But BP phased Heighway out over a period of time, & we played without a conventional winger. We became a solid unit as a result, but had the fluidity to allow players to interchange with each other. He took the technical continentals on at their own game, & built a superior model. That's why we were so successful. It had f**k all to do with competition format. We were the best around. It's really as simple as that.

Clubs like Brugge in the 70s were much stronger than they are today.

They were a great side. We played them in the 76 UEFA cup final, & in the European Cup final 2 years later - There's a youtube clip of the first-leg match of the 1976 final played at Anfield. The Belgians played us off the park first-half & went in 2-0 up at half-time. Their first goal (I think) involved some great one-touch football in the build-up, & ended with a cracking finish. We fought our way back into the game 2nd half & won 3-2. But it just emphasises what I said in an earlier post about people looking at the teams we played & thinking they were sh1te.

Man Utd v Barcelona at Wembley must have been the most humiliating defeat ever for an English team in a final ,totally taken apart at The home of English football and spat out ,could and should have been 6-1 with an even amount of luck

Nottingham Forest can sing it as well

Arsenal can't