James McLean did not refuse to wear a poppy

I'd rather people in general took a more anti-war attitude, thereby saving conflicts (and more importantly, soldiers lives) for if/when somebody actually attacks our country, than just wear a poppy. A token mark of respect is anything but, imo.

Most people wear it because they think they are supposed to, especially those in the public eye.

I don't make an effort to wear them and I have friends in the armed forces. It's not a particular point I'm trying to make by not wearing them, I just think it would be a bit contrived if I did.

So, all in all, who cares?

Exactly who cares. Should the English people residing in the Republic be critisied for not wearing an Easter Lilly to commemorate the old IRA ? They did after all win us our liberty and freedom.

Fair play James McLean. Stick by your principles and dont bow to the British media agenda.

fully123 the poppy nazi mong

I wear a poppy, but I'm getting fairly sick of poppy fascism. Now you've even got "designer poppys," boils my piss seeing some rich **** using what should be a quiet, dignified symbol to flaunt their wealth with diamond studded poppys.

When did this all start? I don't remember about 5 years ago having everyone **** themselves with excitement when they spotted someone who had failed to adorn a poppy for ten minutes withing 2 weeks of the 11th.

The mandatory wearing of poppies by sportsmen and tv presenters alike is contrived and political.

If anyone in the public eye isn't wearing one they get lambasted as being unsympathetic to the sacrifice many have paid.

It's bollox. People show their respects in a 100 different ways or none at all. It should be their choice. The 2 World Wars were fought to protect freedom of choice..

Until we can have a proper debate about being the aggressor in conflicts (Afghanistan and Iraq), we are obliged to be non-thinking, invasion supporting arrogant Brits who continue to kill and be killed

Shortly after my Mother opened her shop in a small Irish town in the early 60s, some of the local Protestants came around selling Poppies. This presented my Mother with a quandary. My Granny's brothers had fought against the Black and Tans in West Cork during the War of Independence. My Mother went into our kitchen and asked my Granny, who was sitting by the fire, what she should do. She knew that buying the Poppies might upset my Granny but, on the other hand, not to do so would alienate a substantial section of her new customer base.

My Granny's instructions were definitive : "Buy them and burn them !", and so my Mam bought the Poppies, went back into the kitchen, gave them to my Granny and the fire did the rest.

I can understand James McClean's actions give his background. Perhaps, if he thought that his non-wearing of the Poppy would seriously impact on his future earnings he might have adopted a similarly pragmatic approach. I think Tony Blair would agree.

The Irish need to get into the 21st century.

Do the British still hold grudges against the Germans or Japanese?

Times move on.

I noticed Aguero and I think Tevez did have the poppy on their shirt.

some of the money collected goes to members of the RUC and the UDR, responsible for the murder of many catholics in northern ireland, it is a perfectly reasonable choice not to support terrorism

Why would a guy from an occupied part of Ireland wear a poppy in support of the occupying troops that he and his family and friends have despised all their lives?

Wonder if the Germans and Japanese are wearing poppies today?

shudacuda Date Joined: 31 Oct 06
The Irish need to get into the 21st century.

Do the British still hold grudges against the Germans or Japanese?

Times move on.


shudacuda, lots of Irish have moved on. As far as I know James McClean was the only Irish player in the Premiership yesterday who opted to wear a poppyless shirt.

shudacuda     11 Nov 12 16:11 
The Irish need to get into the 21st century.

Do the British still hold grudges against the Germans or Japanese?

Times move on.

What a stupid comment, the amount of bigotry aimed towards the Irish from the English is unreal. I suppose being called paddy for so long sticks in the neck a bit. A LOT of Irish made their living in England and should be respectful of that. I do believe the English have an air of superiority even though they are second tier in relation to the big superpowers these days. I respect the soldiers who are unfortunately sent to the likes of Afghanistan and Iraq for the gain of OIL!!!!! It is as simple as that, WAR is MONEY.

maybe it's time for the poppy to be replaced by a dog lead, as the americans lead our army into every war they start to steal other countries natural resources

Why do so many Irish come here if they are so badly treated then?

shudacuda     11 Nov 12 16:33 
Why do so many Irish come here if they are so badly treated then?

A lot of it is due to the fact that they DID go to England, not so much anymore. A lot of it would have been due to the fact that we were left with very little after the English invaded us and were eventually removed. People have to live. As Horusisis said this is all about natural resources. There is a darker side to war and that comment cannot even be put into context without understanding there are people in the US delighted with the invasion on Iraq added to the fact Tony Blair was Bush's lap dog and sent the British soldiers in also.

Lets be straight about this. Its the one upmanship from the unionists/rangers fans  and their right wing agenda who try to force the issue about Celtic and Northern Irish catholics  wearing the poppy.Its all about triumphalism and superiority and a battle of wills to show whos in control. Thats pretty bigoted and sad ,when it should be about respect for the dead and the great sacfrice they have made.

rather than embroidering a poppy into football shorts in an overly ostentatious display of commemoration, why don't the Premier League clubs invite representatives of the British Legion into Premier League dressing rooms and allow the players to make donations commensurate with the size of their wage packets and the strengtrh of their feelings of respect for those who fought for their country...or not, as the case may be.

People need to do a bit more research before making such dumb comments. The British Army did some terrible things in NI and especially so in Derry. If McClean chose not to wear it then its perfectly understandable. The British like it or not are responsible for some of the worst attrocities in history so why would a person put money towards helping army British veterans if they came from a region that they felt suffered at their hands ?

If you cant grasp those basics and understand his principles then feel free to make this into an over-hyped issue to suit your own ideals.

Nov 11, 2012 -- 4:56PM, wallis wrote:

People need to do a bit more research before making such dumb comments. The British Army did some terrible things in NI and especially so in Derry. If McClean chose not to wear it then its perfectly understandable. The British like it or not are responsible for some of the worst attrocities in history so why would a person put money towards helping army British veterans if they came from a region that they felt suffered at their hands ?If you cant grasp those basics and understand his principles then feel free to make this into an over-hyped issue to suit your own ideals.

Spot on!

Nov 11, 2012 -- 4:56PM, wallis wrote:

People need to do a bit more research before making such dumb comments. The British Army did some terrible things in NI and especially so in Derry. If McClean chose not to wear it then its perfectly understandable. The British like it or not are responsible for some of the worst attrocities in history so why would a person put money towards helping army British veterans if they came from a region that they felt suffered at their hands ?If you cant grasp those basics and understand his principles then feel free to make this into an over-hyped issue to suit your own ideals.

Very well said

if its priciple fair enough ,but he is principled enough to take the money live in the country,
if his principles mean so much maybe he should have stayed playing for sh!tkickers city.
im sure the families of people killed in the birmingham and guilford bombings dont have the chip this clown has.

As i said earlier i think he's perfectly entitled not to wear a poppy, but just to add some balance to recent posts I think I'm right in saying that Ireland was still part of the UK at the start of World War I.  30,000 Irish troops, both Protestant and Catholic, fell during that conflict alone.

The shame is that the poppy is seen by many as support for the British Army and war more generally.  Wearing the poppy should actually remind us of hundreds of thousands who were sent into war and either died or returned injured.

bigots will always find some excuse even if they have to invent one

flushgordon1     11 Nov 12 17:07 
if its priciple fair enough ,but he is principled enough to take the money live in the country,
if his principles mean so much maybe he should have stayed playing for sh!tkickers city.
im sure the families of people killed in the birmingham and guilford bombings dont have the chip this clown has.


He is also principled enough to pay huge amounts of tax unlike the majority of British people so he is helping your society!!!

wallis you are the ultimate horses arse.Put Gromit on next time as he will make more sense.

so what yer saying ramon is- principles are fine until the mullah becomes too good?

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flushgordon1     11 Nov 12 17:07
if its priciple fair enough ,but he is principled enough to take the money live in the country,
if his principles mean so much maybe he should have stayed playing for sh!tkickers city.
im sure the families of people killed in the birmingham and guilford bombings dont have the chip this clown has.


He is also principled enough to pay huge amounts of tax unlike the majority of British people so he is helping your society!!!

How do you know that? He might be participating in one of those tax avoidance schemes so loved by the rich and famous.

No flush, what i am saying is you said he is getting paid a wage and also paying his dues, what part of this do you not understand. Ridiculed for even working now. He does not agree with supporting the British army and until you have knowledge of why he feels like that your points really mean very little. Very unfortunate what happened in Birmingham and Guilford, nowhere near as bad as what happened in Ireland though, not even 1% of it. As a brit you will never understand.

wear the poppy and stop acting like a ****... If Roy Keane can wear one..

I doubt I see it the same way McLean does but I give him credit for not wearing it. Who the hell are the Premier League to tell people what to wear and what not to wear? We're all vehemently anti-racist so let's wear 'kick it out' T-shirts, we all want to commemorate War veterans, so let's embroider a poppy into our football shirts or not.

I presume he observed the minute's silence so where's the problem - would not have even been a visible issue a few years ago before some 'right on' dullard had the not so bright idea to foster 'groupthink' by embrodering the poppies into the football shirts.

how can he wear a kick out racism t shirt if he has issues with the english?

flushgordon1     11 Nov 12 17:42 
how can he wear a kick out racism t shirt if he has issues with the english?

He doesn't, he is trying to help the epidemic ye have created!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Irish people dont have to wear Poppys, we dont sell them in the South of Ireland.
Would you were an Argentina Poppy lets say?

thats probably where they make  them nowadays

to be fair with the economic crisis in the south of ireland they probably cant afford to make donations.
when you have to support the quinns and the banks and the travellers and the like

You seem like one intelligent chap flushgordon1

If he was so principled then he would not work in the UK and pay taxes which are going to pay the British Army.

Oh wait a minute,maybe his principles disappear the more money involved.

thank you.
its our duty to educate you colonials innit

Nov 11, 2012 -- 5:55PM, shudacuda wrote:

If he was so principled then he would not work in the UK and pay taxes which are going to pay the British Army.Oh wait a minute,maybe his principles disappear the more money involved.

He was born and raised in the UK. Derry, Northern Ireland, UK.

muppet

Wonder what sir Alex would make of this? Obvious what martin o'neill thinks.

blindprobe

My post stands.

Why does he pay uk taxes?

Move abroad or to Eire.


Muppet.

"Why does he pay uk taxes?"

eh??????????

uk citizen!

my post stands

bye now

Nov 11, 2012 -- 6:03PM, shudacuda wrote:

blindprobeMy post stands.Why does he pay uk taxes?Move abroad or to Eire.Muppet.

because he lives there you tit, your point is stupid

why shouldn't he go where he'll get the best money?

He's obviously not contractually obliged to wear the poppy shirt so get over it.

I'm sure I saw an Irish Hibs player today without one.

Does it really matter?

try and find out a name for that Hibs player Geesyerdosh. the quicker we get all these non poppy wearers rounded up and sent 2 the chambers the better.......lol, how the fook is this non story still dragging on 2day!

Would you were an Argentina Poppy lets say?

Hardly a point. For me, the poppy is for the poor cannon fodder of all nations who were lost in the unnecessary WW1, also for those who fought for freedom and against Nazi tyranny in WW2. IF the Nazis had won, young McLean would be wearing a swastika now (if he existed at all), and he'd have NO choice.

James McClean has no problem with working in Britain or British People. He just doesnt wish to support a British Army which has been responsible for years of hurt & misery in the City he grew up in.   

Why can some not grasp that?

they grasp it daylami, but this is an internet forum, and they want to provoke

to be fair if i was a sunderland supporter i would not be back if he was in the team , just on principle.

dont be silly danny osmond

any one got anything better to discuss on this ' sunday bloody sunday ' .

What are the chances the ones making the ill informed and bitter comments are NI and Scottish Newco fans...go figure out their twisted backward agenda

You're right donny-that's probably it.

Thing is people on here try & be outlandish to get a reaction. I'm sure McClean couldnt give a fcuk about how the Betfair Forum judge him. It wasnt to get a reaction that he chose not to have a poppy on his shirt.

It's a joke that on a day when City played Spurs, Chelsea played Liverpool that this is even a talking point.

newcastle played west ham, too

but i wish they hadnt

I abhor the Poppy Nazism that it has become, I choose to commenorate the dead of WW1 and WW2 with a few moments of silence, a glass of wine in the evening to their memory.
I do not wear a poppy because these people died for freedom of choice and democracy, no one should be forced to wear it.

No one is.

The Great Daylami • November 11, 2012 6:26 PM GMT
James McClean has no problem with working in Britain or British People. He just doesnt wish to support a British Army which has been responsible for years of hurt & misery in the City he grew up in.   

Why can some not grasp that?


well said, a few people should look up Bloody Sunday on here....ignoramious a lot of brits on here.

50,000 Irishmen were killed in the 1914-18 war.
Forgotten heroes, wear a poppy for them, if not for the others.

The lad ain't happy wearing a poppy but is happy to take home a handsome wage of the same very people who that poppy represents. Yeah nice one mate, some moral high ground you have taken there fella...real clever.

HEAR HEAR.

He hasn't taken the moral high ground, he's exercised his choice not to wear the symbol of what he perceives to be an army of occupation.

dont be ridiculous. would an english person who lost someone to the IRA were a symbol commemorating dead IRA members?

is that to me moyes?

Its time to let the thread die out of respect for young James. No suprise the main contributors are Flushgordon, Ukmallia,and Shudcuda 3 well known unionist trolls who hate anything Irish.Still they have had a tough week ...everytime  they turn on the tv,computer,or pick up a paper its plastered in pictures of Celtic and Neil Lennon ( yes he really must stay lads ) Oh the Pain

no hippie, was writing when you posted.

that's what I thought but wasn't sure because we used similar language.

spooky

didnt the IRA collaborate with the nazis during ww2 and de valira sent his condolenses when hitler died....sums up the irish republicans

The facts are if it were not for these people who gave their lives to stop the advances of the Germans in world war 1 and world war 2, be it troops from Britain or troops from Russia or the USA and many other nations who gave their all, we the people of the UK and the people of Ireland and most of the free world would most likely not be here today, that is what it comes down too. Show some respect for christ sake.

...

You need to listen to this, listen to the lyrics and THINK chaps.
...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7MwXniOD44

Well said Ukmallia

To think of a christmas ceasefire for a footy match in no mans land.

Sends shivers down the spine.

True Chomper, listening to that song and the lyrics bring it home a little more I think, great tune, listen to it every year around this time.

Never realised how poignant the lyrics were, top track.

Will force people to listen to it from now on.

Coming to a jukebox near you Birmingham

Nov 11, 2012 -- 11:57PM, Ukmalllia wrote:

The facts are if it were not for these people who gave their lives to stop the advances of the Germans in world war 1 and world war 2, be it troops from Britain or troops from Russia or the USA and many other nations who gave their all, we the people of the UK and the people of Ireland and most of the free world would most likely not be here today, that is what it comes down too. Show some respect for christ sake....You need to listen to this, listen to the lyrics and THINK chaps....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7MwXniOD44

Everton 1995 FA Cup song.

SK Everton had a "special" version done for them 5 years after the original was released... !

26 November 1990 (original)
May 1995 (Everton release)
31 May 2004 (Euro 2004 version)

Nov 12, 2012 -- 12:43AM, Ukmalllia wrote:

SK Everton had a "special" version done for them 5 years after the original was released... ! 26 November 1990 (original)May 1995 (Everton release)31 May 2004 (Euro 2004 version)

I know.

Can't believe that was 17 years ago. I was just a boy. How time flies.

Nightfishing are we SK !

3,374 views & 139 posts, Some 'Non Story' this is... He knew it would be contraversial not to wear one maybe he done it for publicity after all who the hell even is James Mclean

A 1 season wonder

A 1 season wonder

If you've been to McLean's home town (Derry) you might understand his stance.

Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbMln5JXXsQ

Nov 12, 2012 -- 12:46AM, Ukmalllia wrote:

Nightfishing are we SK !

Not fishing at all, Ukm.

The British Legion have McClean to thank for a donation I have just made (that I probably would not have done had this 'story' not been publicised).

On another note although McClean will now be under the spotlight for other reasons his lack of natural football talent will mean is future in the Premiership, I predict will be be short lived.

I abhor the "Poppy Nazism" that it has become, I choose to commenorate the dead of WW1 and WW2 with a few moments of silence, a glass of wine in the evening to their memory.
I do not wear a poppy, these people died for freedom of choice and democracy, no one should be forced to wear it.

bloody disgrace i tell yeh. them irish folk stealing our jobs and humiliating us on home soil

"Poppy Nazism" FFS.

You have the choice, wear it or don't. If NAZISM had won, the choice wouldn't exist. No choice would.

For an earlier poster, the poppy isn't any kind of British Army emblem, more the emblem of all unfortunates lost in wars, combatants or not. In WW2,six million jews, millions of other innocents. At least that how I see it.

*that's

I've stopped eating bacon, those vikings were right b@stards !!

sunderland still dont eat sugar puffs after the honeymonster made an appearance in an advert with keegan

donny

too be fair donny they dont eat nowt but cheesy chip

It's his choice to wear the poppy or not

WW2 was fought to defend freedom, so people like James can make that choice

People who are chastising him for not wearing the poppy are completely in the wrong here.

yep, I agree with Stringer here, don't really see the BIG issue.

are you saying he doesn't have a choice? of course he does and it should be respected.

I doubt a lot of people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Argentina wear them either - not rocket science.

maybe his ancestors fought in the British Army during WWI or II, that was a different time and there was a common enemy. Ireland is a constitutionally neutral country and cannot take sides in wars. If it could they would have fought in the name of Ireland.

far more likely that someone a lot closer to him or his friends back home in Derry was massacred in Bloody Sunday 40 years ago. The British Army is seen as evil where he comes from and will be for many years to come. Do you not understand that?

everything is dramatic these days, he didnt wear a poppy.. who cares!!!!!

An Irish Government TD has said he wore a poppy to the Dail to show that remembering the Irish war dead is no longer off limits.
Frank Feighan, who called last week for a joint British-Irish approach to commemorating the First World War, is the first TD to make the gesture for 16 years.

"We have well and truly moved on from that dark, bloody era in the North before the evolution of the peace process - a time when the politics of fear and divisiveness tore apart communities living side by side," he said.

"Thankfully, the peace dividend has delivered a new politics which has allowed us to publicly respect all traditions on this island.

"This politics of inclusiveness has also allowed us to publicly revisit some aspects of our past which up to recently were off limits. That includes the countless Irish men who fought and died in the Great Wars."

Mr Feighan, chair of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, is the first TD to wear a poppy to the Dail since 1996 when Labour's Emmet Stagg, and Fine Gael TDs Paddy Harte and Brian Hayes set the example.

He said he wore the poppy as a symbolic gesture to remember the war dead and to illustrate how the politics of engagement and not war is the only way forward in solving seemingly intractable conflicts.

About 50,000 Irish men who enlisted for the First World War died.

The Irish Government this year pardoned about 5,000 soldiers branded deserters and blacklisted for fighting for the Allies against Nazi Germany in the Second World War.

Mr Feighan said: "For me, wearing the poppy in the Dail is a symbolic gesture to not only recognise the Irish men who fought in the Great Wars but to illustrate how the politics of engagement and not war is the only way forward in solving seemingly intractable conflicts."



Unfortunately James McLean is a Republican who refuses to let go and refuses to move on. These Republicans do not wear the poppy because they do not want to be associated with the Unionists who have always worn the poppy. Its time to move on James.

morons have no shame.