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Betfair Group plc
7 November 2012
UPDATE ON GERMANY
As previously indicated, in July 2012 Germany introduced a law that applies a 5% tax on stakes on sports betting in the country. A tax at this rate, if applicable, would make Betfair's current exchange model unviable. Following detailed opinions provided by its legal and tax advisors, Betfair believes that, in regard to bets placed on its exchange, it is not an organiser of sports betting under the tax law and is not, therefore, liable for the tax.
Betfair has been working with the relevant tax authorities to seek clarification on interpretation of the law and its applicability to exchanges. The company is disappointed, however, that to date the tax authorities have not been able to agree to an interpretation of the law that would allow Betfair to continue to offer the exchange product. Consequently, Betfair has decided to withdraw its exchange product from the German market.
Following this decision, on-going contribution from Germany is expected to be de minimis and Betfair is reviewing its operations in this market. In FY12, approximately 4% of Core Betfair revenue came from Germany and this revenue delivered a contribution of approximately £6 million before the allocation of central costs.
The company believes that it has fulfilled all of its obligations under German law, including the filing of necessary tax returns. Discussions are continuing with tax authorities regarding the potential tax liability, if any, arising from bets placed on its exchange since the law came into effect.
7 November 2012
UPDATE ON GERMANY
As previously indicated, in July 2012 Germany introduced a law that applies a 5% tax on stakes on sports betting in the country. A tax at this rate, if applicable, would make Betfair's current exchange model unviable. Following detailed opinions provided by its legal and tax advisors, Betfair believes that, in regard to bets placed on its exchange, it is not an organiser of sports betting under the tax law and is not, therefore, liable for the tax.
Betfair has been working with the relevant tax authorities to seek clarification on interpretation of the law and its applicability to exchanges. The company is disappointed, however, that to date the tax authorities have not been able to agree to an interpretation of the law that would allow Betfair to continue to offer the exchange product. Consequently, Betfair has decided to withdraw its exchange product from the German market.
Following this decision, on-going contribution from Germany is expected to be de minimis and Betfair is reviewing its operations in this market. In FY12, approximately 4% of Core Betfair revenue came from Germany and this revenue delivered a contribution of approximately £6 million before the allocation of central costs.
The company believes that it has fulfilled all of its obligations under German law, including the filing of necessary tax returns. Discussions are continuing with tax authorities regarding the potential tax liability, if any, arising from bets placed on its exchange since the law came into effect.
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I did not clearly understand - germans cannot bet in Betfair or we all cannot bet on german markets?
i need a adress in UK......someone know where i can get a postbox? :D
Germans cannot use the exchange anymore, only fixed odds betting allowed, and the odds in these markets are often even worse than on bwin! 
You should be able bet on german markets in the future, questin is: how much liquidity will there be?
yeah me too, cheap po box or sth. like that!
You should be able bet on german markets in the future, questin is: how much liquidity will there be?
yeah me too, cheap po box or sth. like that!
How betfair will restrict: by credit card addres or IP addres?
i think your adress....otherwise it will be no problem
prele_ 07 Nov 12 10:54
I guess it's time to move on to another Betting Exchange then. But I might use this forum anyways.
do you honestly think that the law will apply to only betfair? , the law will apply to any exchange wanting to do business with germany
I guess it's time to move on to another Betting Exchange then. But I might use this forum anyways.
do you honestly think that the law will apply to only betfair? , the law will apply to any exchange wanting to do business with germany
There are ways round it, i can think of at least 3 forumites on here who live in Spain and betfair is banned there too (i think)
Nov 7, 2012 -- 12:21PM, dlarssonf wrote:
prele_ 07 Nov 12 10:54 I guess it's time to move on to another Betting Exchange then. But I might use this forum anyways.do you honestly think that the law will apply to only betfair? , the law will apply to any exchange wanting to do business with germany
The question is, if the others will also stop their German campaign because of a law or if the keep doing it. Well, time for a friend to open an account for me maybe
You can't get a P.O. box if you don't live in the UK.
You need to be searching for a "mailing address" and away from London to keep the cost down.
A friend would be an even better solution.
You need to be searching for a "mailing address" and away from London to keep the cost down.
A friend would be an even better solution.
When I was in USA 10 years ago where betting is forbiden I bet in GLOBET with my Bulgarian debit card, so IP addres does not mean anything
I am not a computer geek but cant you bet via some proxy server?
I go to France a fair bit and can't even log in to this site when I'm there.
you don't know who you're giving very sensitive information to using a proxy server.
A VPN is the safer option (The server has to be in the UK).
A VPN is the safer option (The server has to be in the UK).
p.s. I dont know what a proxy server is either!
in reply to another poster can we start getting debit cards from other countries? Would that help too?
in reply to another poster can we start getting debit cards from other countries? Would that help too?
Ill give you a debit card only for 5% of your withdrawn
Right hippie,
My mate in computers mentioned something similar. I wouldn't know my vpn / proxy server from my elbow
As a matter of interest how is that set up /cost? I am interested in doing that when I am in USA although I do remember being able to access Betfair from mobile but not pc in USA.
My mate in computers mentioned something similar. I wouldn't know my vpn / proxy server from my elbow
As a matter of interest how is that set up /cost? I am interested in doing that when I am in USA although I do remember being able to access Betfair from mobile but not pc in USA.
A proxy server is basically getting information from A to B via C and for all you know C is a scammer in China that you are handing passwords, bank details etc to.
A VPN is a secure link that "tunnels" you to a server. You need the server to be in the UK to avoid the block. You're better off doing your own research to find a suitable VPN and to get comfortable with what it all means.
A VPN is a secure link that "tunnels" you to a server. You need the server to be in the UK to avoid the block. You're better off doing your own research to find a suitable VPN and to get comfortable with what it all means.
Thanks hippie,
I get the gist of it. I now know what to ask for. I will email my geek for advice.
As a point of interest now I will also seek to find out if it is illegal to bet via betfair using a vpn whilst in the USA! Could I be sent to Guantanamo for doing so?
I get the gist of it. I now know what to ask for. I will email my geek for advice.
As a point of interest now I will also seek to find out if it is illegal to bet via betfair using a vpn whilst in the USA! Could I be sent to Guantanamo for doing so?
I still don't get what the hell a BRITISH company has to care about non EU-conform gambling and tax laws in Germany?
I think it could be illegal but you would have a strong case of your humans rights being violated if they waterboarded you for having a tenner on Hertha Berlin to beat FSV Frankfurt.
Alternatively, Colarado and Washington legalised the recreational use of marijuana in ballots last night.
Alternatively, Colarado and Washington legalised the recreational use of marijuana in ballots last night.
Friday Bundesliga 2: SV Sandhausen - Hertha BSC Berlin:
Odds @ Betfair: Sandhausen 5.0, Draw 3.4, Hertha 1.6
Odds @ bwin: Sandhausen 4.8, Draw 3.5, Hertha 1.7
???? Is this a joke ????
Odds @ Betfair: Sandhausen 5.0, Draw 3.4, Hertha 1.6
Odds @ bwin: Sandhausen 4.8, Draw 3.5, Hertha 1.7
???? Is this a joke ????
yes, I visit Colorado sometimes.
Deeply ironic that in the land of the free and the home of the brave I could escape the long arm of the law for smoking a McCartney filterless yet be given an orange boilersuit and an upside down ironing board with running water for trying to make an honest deutchmark.
Deeply ironic that in the land of the free and the home of the brave I could escape the long arm of the law for smoking a McCartney filterless yet be given an orange boilersuit and an upside down ironing board with running water for trying to make an honest deutchmark.
a question for the germans, do you pay the 5% tax on stake wehn betting on the exchange
Johnny, I never bet on bwin, just use it for streams and fast updates. When betting at a booki I use 365.
colonelli, no, and that's the main point as aI read as the spirit of a betting exchange does not include the one bettors to pay the 5% tax and the others don't. Can't see how Betfair could handle/solve this problem.
colonelli, no, and that's the main point as aI read as the spirit of a betting exchange does not include the one bettors to pay the 5% tax and the others don't. Can't see how Betfair could handle/solve this problem.
Betfair should charge German customers more commission to pay the taxes and/or scrap the funding of the new site to retain the revenue from these customers.
The German tax dudes are saying they want 5% of the revenue (not just on your final winnings on a market) as far as I understand. That's....basically inapplicable.
oky xgurkx, what about on the fixed odds site from betfair? do you pay the 5% rate with the fixed odds
German customers need to take it up with the local politician then, because it seems like a law which has not been properly devised.
We (bettors) have no lobby! If I'd be a addicted casinoplayer they'd be happy to take my money!
The law has been made in a way by those very same politicians with the simple aim of re-monopolizing the lottery and sportsbetting market into the hands of our federal states.
It was the same in france. On surface they're saying: "hey hey, we open the market and just want some taxes that belong to us" when in fact it was made in an unfair and impractical way towards the betting sites and exchanges on purpose.
It was the same in france. On surface they're saying: "hey hey, we open the market and just want some taxes that belong to us" when in fact it was made in an unfair and impractical way towards the betting sites and exchanges on purpose.
The exchange is FINISHED in germany maybe for a loooong time 
Of course, you know you can move anywhere in the EU if you want to, there are plenty of countries which are not so money-grabbing.
its a restriction based on locale not nationality
Come to greece, betfair will be able to operate until 1-1-2013 
I think it's enough that my tax money is in greece, no need for me to go there too 
I am sure Betfair have an argument against this being an anti-free market law too.
That's democracy ... more and more restrictions.I love trading on betfair, seems that I need a new hobby in future. Or move to GB,but the weather is even worse there than in Germany.
How is it possible that German law should apply to a British company? And even if it applies why is it not feasible to pay those 5% to the government every time you make a deposit?
"I think it's enough that my tax money is in greece, no need for me to go there too "
(Reuters) - Betfair Group Plc (BETF.L) has withdrawn its online sports betting exchange in Germany, blaming a 5 percent turnover tax for making its main product unviable in Europe's largest economy.
Other British-listed gambling companies have also cried foul over a tax levied in Germany on stakes on sports events from July 2012.
Companies in the growing online gambling market complain of a patchwork of different regulatory regimes and tax systems across continental Europe. They are focusing their expansion efforts on those countries where there are clear rules and less onerous tax regimes.
Betfair, which launched 12 years ago and operates an exchange system that allows gamblers to bet against each other rather than the bookmaker, argued it should not have to pay the German tax.
Germany is a relatively small part of its business, accounting for around 4 percent of core revenue in its last financial year.
"The company is disappointed that to date the tax authorities have not been able to agree to an interpretation of the law that would allow Betfair to continue to offer the exchange product," Betfair said on Wednesday.
"Consequently, Betfair has decided to withdraw its exchange product from the German market," it added.
Betfair said contributions from Germany would be minimal following the withdrawal of the product. Besides the sports betting exchange, it also offers poker, casino and more traditional fixed-odds betting there.
Betfair shares initially opened lower but recouped the losses to trade 1.8 percent higher at 765p by 1020 GMT.
Analyst Nick Batram of brokerage Peel Hunt said he had already factored a German withdrawal into his forecasts after previous statements from the company.
"We believe that there is the potential to create a much leaner and meaner business, with the unique exchange platform at the core," said Batram, who has a "buy" rating on the stock.
William Hill (WMH.L), Britain's largest bookmaker, said it no longer offered any kind of service to German residents because of the tax situation.
"We remain licensed in Spain and Italy, and have recently developed a Swedish language website and started advertising in print and broadcast media there," spokeswoman Kate Miller said.
Bwin.party (BPTY.L), the world's largest online gaming group, said last week that the German tax had contributed to a decline in revenue in the third quarter.
Bwin has amended its business model in Germany, its largest market, by no longer accepting very short-odds bets on sports events there.
Other British-listed gambling companies have also cried foul over a tax levied in Germany on stakes on sports events from July 2012.
Companies in the growing online gambling market complain of a patchwork of different regulatory regimes and tax systems across continental Europe. They are focusing their expansion efforts on those countries where there are clear rules and less onerous tax regimes.
Betfair, which launched 12 years ago and operates an exchange system that allows gamblers to bet against each other rather than the bookmaker, argued it should not have to pay the German tax.
Germany is a relatively small part of its business, accounting for around 4 percent of core revenue in its last financial year.
"The company is disappointed that to date the tax authorities have not been able to agree to an interpretation of the law that would allow Betfair to continue to offer the exchange product," Betfair said on Wednesday.
"Consequently, Betfair has decided to withdraw its exchange product from the German market," it added.
Betfair said contributions from Germany would be minimal following the withdrawal of the product. Besides the sports betting exchange, it also offers poker, casino and more traditional fixed-odds betting there.
Betfair shares initially opened lower but recouped the losses to trade 1.8 percent higher at 765p by 1020 GMT.
Analyst Nick Batram of brokerage Peel Hunt said he had already factored a German withdrawal into his forecasts after previous statements from the company.
"We believe that there is the potential to create a much leaner and meaner business, with the unique exchange platform at the core," said Batram, who has a "buy" rating on the stock.
William Hill (WMH.L), Britain's largest bookmaker, said it no longer offered any kind of service to German residents because of the tax situation.
"We remain licensed in Spain and Italy, and have recently developed a Swedish language website and started advertising in print and broadcast media there," spokeswoman Kate Miller said.
Bwin.party (BPTY.L), the world's largest online gaming group, said last week that the German tax had contributed to a decline in revenue in the third quarter.
Bwin has amended its business model in Germany, its largest market, by no longer accepting very short-odds bets on sports events there.
Betfair, and bookies, should respond by refusing to sponsor or provide funding to any event based in Germany or from which some of the profit will go to Germany - and other countries that have similar laws.
its only exchange bets n they can still bet on fixed odds??
only exchange bets ?
who gives a **** about the fixed odds **** ?
who gives a **** about the fixed odds **** ?
As said and proven above, they're worse than BWIN! BWIN!!!!!!! You know what THAT means????
And I'm on 365 for the near future! So it's again beat the bookies like I started with betting 7 or 8 years ago 
I don't need Betfair with such crap odds and without the exchange!
Nov 7, 2012 -- 7:40PM, xGURKx wrote:
And I'm on 365 for the near future! So it's again beat the bookies like I started with betting 7 or 8 years ago
dont you pay 5% per stake? it is already difficult to beat the bookies margin let alone additional 5%
we need betfair in more country's not less ffs
its bad enough i cant winter in spain cos they wont have it
now i cant even summer in germany , ive relatives there aswell ffs
its bad enough i cant winter in spain cos they wont have it
now i cant even summer in germany , ive relatives there aswell ffs
I'm really P I S S E D today, my favourite markets were CS and laying some of them, this sucks and it makes me really SICK!
me too gurk
another reason is , wtf has bf to rush all this 2 days before they close in germany they give a announcement ?
just wait till atleast next year .
another reason is , wtf has bf to rush all this 2 days before they close in germany they give a announcement ?
just wait till atleast next year .
but we can use ****q i read on a nother forum
whats the logic of this ?
whats the logic of this ?
Vergesst die Festpeis Quoten, egal bei welchem Wettanbieter, ihr könnt die auf lange Sicht nicht schlagen. Und falls ihr doch mal länger und viel dort gewinnt werdet ihr limitiert oder ausgeschlossen.
das ist das große Problem, Auswandern geht nicht, mache das ja nur als "Hobby" und wollte mir ne gute Bank aufbauen, kann ich jetzt alles in die Tonne kloppen, bis sich diese Idioten mal wieder besinnen, wenn überhaupt. Ausländische (Schein-)Adresse? So schnell schaust gar nicht kriegen sie dich irgendwann wegen "Geldwäschegesetz" dran. Alles in allem schaut's sehr mies aus.
yes i know there is zero liquidity
or was bf again too greedy ?
or was bf again too greedy ?
Ja das mit dem Auswandern usw ist ja blödsinn , aber gerade als es sich richtig bezahlt gemacht hat für mich, machen die zu. war schon kein hobby mehr .Die letzten 2 monate fast 20 k und diesen monat auch schon über 3+...
verstehe bloß nicht warum das alles wieder so schnell gehen musste
und du glaubst ja nicht das bf sich da soviele mühe machen wird zurückzukommen sobald sie einmal raus sind aus deutschland
verstehe bloß nicht warum das alles wieder so schnell gehen musste
und du glaubst ja nicht das bf sich da soviele mühe machen wird zurückzukommen sobald sie einmal raus sind aus deutschland
hi ew7, bei deinem 20k Gewinn , hast du da auf Glück gebaut oder war hast du eine Strategie?
nä bin schon länger dabei hier
würde es nicht als glück bezeichnen eher kalkuliertes risiko ( staking plan)
habe eigentlich keine richtige strategie mache aber sehr viel pre match trading usw
würde es nicht als glück bezeichnen eher kalkuliertes risiko ( staking plan)
habe eigentlich keine richtige strategie mache aber sehr viel pre match trading usw
ja bei den Beträgen würd ich da grad mal richtig das Kotzen bekommen!
ich werd wohl auch zu bet365 gehen müssen fürs erste... aber die 5% kommen da auch sehr schnell, da bin ich mir sicher.
bleibt ihr dem forum erhalten? oder gründen wir unser eigenes?
bleibt ihr dem forum erhalten? oder gründen wir unser eigenes?
All you need is an address in the UK (or another region exchanges are not banned). You can still access the site from anywhere as ip address is not important. You can deposit/withdraw using moneybookers or similar. Its pretty easy to get proof of address to satisfy betfair when you open the account. I live in Hong Kong (where all gambling is banned except with the state owned bookmakers) and i have no major issues using betfair. You just need to be creative.
xGURKx 07 Nov 12 19:40
And I'm on 365 for the near future! So it's again beat the bookies like I started with betting 7 or 8 years ago
The problem here of course is if you start winning youll soon have your account closed by them.
As for the liquidity at betd a q if all germans start using it, then it will obviously improve.
And I'm on 365 for the near future! So it's again beat the bookies like I started with betting 7 or 8 years ago
The problem here of course is if you start winning youll soon have your account closed by them.
As for the liquidity at betd a q if all germans start using it, then it will obviously improve.
As for betd a q, if BF states that only 4% of customers are german, then I don't see how liquidity over at the purple place could increase that much that it could be worth even having a look over there!
@ Danyo: weiß jetzt auch noch nicht, 365 wohl vorerst ne Möglichkeit für mich aber wie gesagt, gewinnt man da, sperren die einen recht schnell. Andere Möglichkeiten wären die Asia Bookies aber damit hab ich 0,00 Erfahrung!
@ Danyo: weiß jetzt auch noch nicht, 365 wohl vorerst ne Möglichkeit für mich aber wie gesagt, gewinnt man da, sperren die einen recht schnell. Andere Möglichkeiten wären die Asia Bookies aber damit hab ich 0,00 Erfahrung!
No, 4% of revenue is from German customers.
Can't imagine that it's only 4 % , Germany is one of the biggest markets in Europe ?
@germans: Weiß jemand ,ob Zweitsitz in Luxemburg was bringt, bzw. ob da Exchange erlaubt ist?
@germans: Weiß jemand ,ob Zweitsitz in Luxemburg was bringt, bzw. ob da Exchange erlaubt ist?
I feel like I've lost my job now. And betting at the bookies makes me feel so naked and vulnerable.... totally no control over my stake
theoretical question: if I find a friend from another country to register for me and verify with his documents... would it help to just add a new email adress to my old moneybookers account (different name obviously) and link it with the new account, or does the friend need to set up a new moneybookers account as well to go with the betfair account?
theoretical question: if I find a friend from another country to register for me and verify with his documents... would it help to just add a new email adress to my old moneybookers account (different name obviously) and link it with the new account, or does the friend need to set up a new moneybookers account as well to go with the betfair account?
@ Danyo, das mit Moneybookers würde ich nicht machen, so wie man hörst stehen sämtliche Online-Wallets unter erheblichem Druck wegen dem Geldwäschegesetz, und 3x darfst du raten, welche EU Regierung da wohl am meisten Druck ausübt? Lies doch einfach mal im größten deutschen Forum rum, stehen einige Tips ür die Zukunft drin, wie man was handhaben könnte.
ich nutze aber jetzt auch schon die ganze Zeit Moneybookers... und die damit verknüpfte Kreditkarte für Auszahlungen. Geht immer flott und easy... und auch in meinen Urlaubsländern :D
Welches Forum meinst du? das größte deutsche BF Forum?
Welches Forum meinst du? das größte deutsche BF Forum?
Solang das dein eigenes Konto ist ja, aber rumtricksen mit Adressen etc. würd ich da nicht!
To all the Deutsch landers, Move to EngerrrLand to continue using Betfair.
We welcome you with open arms
We welcome you with open arms
I have a few spare rooms to rent in my mansion
Apply within
Apply within
Nov 9, 2012 -- 1:24PM, Bruce Willis wrote:
To all the Deutsch landers, Move to EngerrrLand to continue using Betfair.We welcome you with open arms
wouldnt count on it!
Come on guys, you can get around it if you need to. If you have to use bookies, spread your money around instead of lumping it on one bet.
Fixed odds not even inplay
Betfair now officially useless...
Betfair now officially useless...
Bruce Willis 09 Nov 12 14:09 Joined: 27 Jul 10 | Topic/replies: 5,866 | Blogger: Bruce Willis's blog
I have a few spare rooms to rent in my mansion
Apply within
What are your rates for lodgers? 2 bums a week?
I have a few spare rooms to rent in my mansion
Apply within
What are your rates for lodgers? 2 bums a week?
Nov 9, 2012 -- 2:06PM, Danyo wrote:
To Engerrrrland I only fly with Messerschmidt Airlines
And people say the English are obsessed with the past.
If you think that's funny you're a moron
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