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liamcol
03 Sep 12 06:36
Joined:
Date Joined: 27 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 6,983 | Blogger: liamcol's blog
Looking at the group, if we take Barca as a given to qualify, there is one spot left.
I don’t see much between the 3 of us and was expecting 5/2 tops.
I am astonished to see us at 6/1 with 2 bookies, this is an outstanding price.
Also v Benfica, at home, 11/4? Another huge price.
English based bookies tend to dismiss us, take advantage of their arrogance.
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Report sj September 3, 2012 12:11 PM BST
to be fair liam 45k is not great for the best fans in the world,who took 3.5 million to seville back in 2003
Report thebrave September 3, 2012 12:21 PM BST
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz   CrazyCrazy
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 12:35 PM BST
We're going off track here, I was looking for opinions on the price of Celtic qualifying from group G, I say 6/1 is a huge rick.
Report Tony Broke September 3, 2012 1:02 PM BST
benfica players are still partying after hearing the draw.
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 1:07 PM BST
mmm, really?
Not the one's I've spoken to, we'll see.
3-0 and 1-0 to Celtic last 2 visits to Celtic Park for them, with identical reverse results at the Cathedral.
Report chelters16 September 3, 2012 1:08 PM BST
Im a hoop but cant have the hoops even at 6/1 will enjoy the ride and will be delighted to be proved wrong,oh and I will enjoy being at the top table unlike some others..........Cool
Report Marxist-Leninist September 3, 2012 1:10 PM BST
definitely not a rick. 6/1 seems about right...not that I would be backing them.
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 1:14 PM BST
I think we have an equal chance of finishing 2nd, 3rd, or 4th, that's why I think 6/1 is hugely overpriced, it should be 5/2-3/1 max, imo.
Report Geesyerdosh September 3, 2012 1:19 PM BST
How can 6/1 be a huge rick given Celtics abysmal away record in the champions league and that dreadful defence they have. Helsingborg could of easily scored 4 or 5 just in the first half of the the first leg. Third would be a decent achievement.

Add in the Lennon hasn't a clue factor and 6/1 looks shocking value Laugh
Report Marxist-Leninist September 3, 2012 1:21 PM BST
liamcol, best way to work it out is for you to price up all four, if you think Celtic should be 5/2-3/1 presumably you will be way too big on Benfica?
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 1:33 PM BST
On oddschecker-
Benfica best 4/6 worst 1/2
Spartak best 2/1 worst 7/4
Celtic best 6/1 worst 4/1

The way the fixtures have panned out is the only thing putting me off.
Double header v Barca games 3 and 4, where they will be looking to secure qualification, if they achieve it, they can take it easy against Benfica in the final game.

I'm looking for win v benfica, draw or win in moscow, draw at least home v barca, win at home v spartak, draw at benfica.
So, 8 or 9 points, could be enough, though we gained 9 points before and still didn't qualify.
Report Outpost September 3, 2012 2:28 PM BST
if you think 6/1 is well overpriced then you should be backing it and not talking about it.
Report chelters16 September 3, 2012 2:41 PM BST
Hark at thee............and maybe you should be laying in that case oh wise one !Cry
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 2:42 PM BST
Joined: 10 Apr 09 | Topic/replies: 3,487 | Blogger: Outpost's blog
if you think 6/1 is well overpriced then you should be backing it and not talking about it.

Who says I'm not backing it?
Thought this was a discussion forum, no?
Report sevenone September 3, 2012 3:00 PM BST
some of the people offering you advice liam,are the same people who would have had you believing that celtic would nt get over the half way line against helsingborgs.
Report judzis007 September 3, 2012 3:03 PM BST
author of this topic must be crazy ;D
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 3:11 PM BST
sevenone 03 Sep 12 15:00 Joined: 19 Apr 02 | Topic/replies: 429 | Blogger: sevenone's blog
some of the people offering you advice liam,are the same people who would have had you believing that celtic would nt get over the half way line against helsingborgs.

Ye, I'm well aware of that.  Wink
We could have scored 5 or 6 in both legs against them.

Twice we have qualified at Benficas expense in the group stages, also our recent away form is good, last to beat us were Atletico Madrid and they ain't too shabby.
Report Biscuit1979 September 3, 2012 3:14 PM BST
"I'm looking for win v benfica, draw or win in moscow, draw at least home v barca, win at home v spartak, draw at benfica"




So to summarise, you're looking at 4 points off Benfica, 4-6 points off Spartak and a draw at home to Barca. You must be drunk.

I'm not sure whether you just vastly over estimate Celtic or whether you think the other sides aren't that good. Perhaps it's both. Either way you will get absolutely nowhere near 8/9/10 points.

I would bet you will lose all 3 away games, and at home to Barca, might nick a draw at home to Benfica if they have an off night which leaves Spartak at home is your only realistic hope of 3 points.
Report judzis007 September 3, 2012 3:16 PM BST
well said Biscuit
Report Millerracing67 September 3, 2012 3:18 PM BST
Celtic will do well not to finish bottom of that group, imo.
They are the best of a poor lot in the SPL.
3rd spot & into Europa/Cup will be a bonus for them.
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 3:19 PM BST
You would have expected the price on here to at least match the bookies 6/1, considering all the experts on here who think we have no chance.
Or maybe they all went broke laying us home and away to HJK and Helsingborgs.  Happy
Report judzis007 September 3, 2012 3:23 PM BST
it is good that you believe in your team , but you must be realistic
Report Millerracing67 September 3, 2012 3:25 PM BST
Liamcol.
The way to make money in gambling is to back your own judgement mate, not be more interested in what the rest think.
If you think 6s is a great bet for the Celts, then get on.
Report Zeman September 3, 2012 3:49 PM BST
Again we have a clubfan making unrealistic predictions. Celtic played a serious friendly against ajax just before the first match against HJK. Being absolutely outplayed and ajax is a subaverage team in Europe. HJK and Helsingborg are pretty weak teams. HJk was totally outclassed by bilbao playing without their best strikers. So celtic have not met a team with serious strength except for ajax and they got demolished

IF you are betting you have to be realistic. Thinking you will get 7 points at home is not realistic if you look at the opponents. In the most positve outlook you will get 4 points at home max. Maybe 3 against spartak even though I think spartak will win since they play a countergame which will be difficult for celtic. Home draw against benfica seems unlikely as well but you never know.

Away matches will be difficult and I doubt celtic will get any points. Maybe a point against spartak but doubt it. Spartak has more quality.

I think 10/1 would be more fair odds.
Report The Bhoys September 3, 2012 5:28 PM BST
the only way we get 2nd is if the benfica and moscow plans crash on their away trips to barca and celtic. i would bite ur hand of for third
Report The Bhoys September 3, 2012 5:28 PM BST
* planes
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 5:58 PM BST
I wouldn't take much notice of friendlies, we also drew with Inter, btw.

Home games in group games.

2001/2
Juventus 4-3 Porto 1-0 Rosenborg 1-0

2003/4
Bayern 0-0 Lyon 2-0 Anderlecht 3-1

2004/5

Barca 1-3 Milan 0-0 Shaktar 1-0

2006/7

Manu 1-0 Copenhagen 1-0 Benfica 3-0

2007/8

Shaktar 2-1 Milan 2-1 Benfica 1-0

2008/9

Aalborg 0-0 manu 1-1 Vilareal 2-0

So, the only team to beat us in the groups has been Barca.

13 wins 4 draws 1 defeat, not too shabby, imo.
Report The Bhoys September 3, 2012 6:00 PM BST
not to bad ur right but we hav got worse
Report erogenous_zone September 3, 2012 6:08 PM BST
what has the past record got to do with this season?? the last results there are from 4 years ago and you have got progressivly worse, the celtic team of 4 years ago would prob beat the team now 5-0 every week
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 6:16 PM BST
Progressively worse?

Beat HJK home and away, beat Helsingborgs home and away, 1 win 1 draw v Rennes, 2 draws v Udinese, 2 defeats to Atletico.
Report erogenous_zone September 3, 2012 6:18 PM BST
are you honestly saying this celtic team is at least as good as the team from 4 years ago and beyond??
Report The Bhoys September 3, 2012 6:20 PM BST
fu ck no its not a patch on strachan or oneils teams
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 6:22 PM BST
No I'm saying it's better.
I would only take 2 or 3, at most, from the team that drew with manu.
Boruc,
Hinkel, Caldwell, McManus, Wilson,
Hartley, Scott Brown, Robson, Maloney
(O'Dea 75), McDonald (Hutchinson 81), Sheridan (Donati 63).
Report thebrave September 3, 2012 6:22 PM BST
What a loada p1sh Crazy
The Celtic team of 4 years ago had Naylor, Hartley, Flood, Wilson, O'Dea, Donati and so on  - a fully
fit squad from today would phuckin hammer that lot Shocked
Enda phuckin story Cool
Report Petraco September 3, 2012 6:23 PM BST
I can't work out who is trying to catch who in this net, but there's an awful lot of fishing going on...
Report The Bhoys September 3, 2012 6:24 PM BST
caldwell and mcmanus wer shambles. but r defense is not good at present. wer is big mick these days?boro?
Report erogenous_zone September 3, 2012 6:27 PM BST
1           

Boruc        1.93        27            GK   
2           

Hinkel in 01-Jan        1.83        25            DF     Right-back
3           

Naylor        1.78        27            DF     Left-back
4           

Virgo        1.88        24            DF     Centre-back
5           

Caldwell (c)        1.85        25            DF     Centre-back
6           

Baldé        1.91        31            DF     Centre-back
7           

Żurawski        1.80        30            FW     Striker
8           

Brown, Scott (Sco)        1.75        22            MF     Box-to-Box midfielder/Right-midfield
9           

Miller, K Out 30-Aug        1.78        27            FW     Striker
9           

Samaras        1.93        22            FW     Striker/Left-wing
10           

Vennegoor        1.91        28            FW     Striker
11           

Hartley        1.73        30            MF     Box-to-Box midfielder/Defensive midfielder
12           

Wilson, Mark (1984)        1.80        23            DF     Right-back/Left-back
14           

Riordan        1.80        24            FW     Striker/Left-wing
15           

Sno        1.88        20            MF     Defensive midfielder
17           

Pressley        1.83        33            DF     Centre-back
18           

Donati        1.86        26            MF     Defensive midfielder/Box-to-Box midfielder
19           

Robson, B in 31-Jan        1.80        28            MF     Either side midfield/Box-to-Box midfielder
20           

Jarosik Out 31-Dec        1.93        29            DF     Centre-back/Box-to-Box midfielder
21           

Brown, Mark        1.85        26            GK   
24           

Doumbé        1.80        28            DF     Right-back
25           

Nakamura        1.78        29            MF     Right-midfield/Attacking midfielder
26           

Sheridan        1.96        18            FW     Striker
27           

McDonald        1.73        23            FW     Striker
29           

Mizuno in 30-Jan        1.73        21            MF     Right-midfield/Left-midfield
33           

Killen        1.88        25            FW     Striker
37           

Hutchinson, B in 31-Jan        1.80        19            FW     Striker
41           

Kennedy, John        1.88        23            DF     Centre-back
42           

McGlinchey        1.73        20            MF     Box-to-Box midfielder
44           

McManus (c)        1.88        24            DF     Centre-back/Left-back
45           

O'Brien, Jim        1.73        19            MF     Right-midfield/Striker
46           

McGeady    1.78        21            MF     Either side midfield
47           

McGovern, M        1.88        23            GK   
48           

O'Dea        1.85        20            DF     Centre-back/Left-back
52           

Caddis in 01-Jan        1.70        19            DF     Right-back/Right-midfield
54           

Conroy        1.78        20            MF     Left-midfield/Left-back
55           

McGowan        1.70        19            FW     Striker/Either side wing
56           

Bjarnason, T Out 31-Dec        1.79        20            MF     Left-midfield
62           

Fox, S        1.83        20            GK   


theres about 8 players in that squad who would without a doubt get in the first 11 today, going further back a few years from this team your entering into the larsson years and that would be foolish to even contemplate then
Report erogenous_zone September 3, 2012 6:27 PM BST
^ celtic squad 2007/2008
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 6:32 PM BST
Apart from McGeady, who went for decent money out of that squad?
In this squad we just sold our 5th choice midfielder for 6m plus.
Report The Bhoys September 3, 2012 6:33 PM BST
nakamaura
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 6:35 PM BST
What?
Nakamura went for free.
Report thebrave September 3, 2012 6:35 PM BST
What a loada p1sh Crazy
Two of the current squad are still there (Brown and Samaras) two would walk into the team (McGeady and Nakamura)
but how the phuck are you fittin 8 of them in ShockedConfusedCrazy
Complete sh1te - there is NO chance 8 of that squad would be picked in a fully fit team today SurprisedShockedAngryCrazyWhoops

Grin
Report erogenous_zone September 3, 2012 6:35 PM BST
u sold mcgeady for nearly 10 million. in scottish football that is a fortune
Report Irish_Celtic September 3, 2012 6:35 PM BST
Nakamura , Balde , Mcgeady , thats it
Report thebrave September 3, 2012 6:37 PM BST
^ the word "current" doesn't belong in opening sentence obviously Blush
Grin
Report The Bhoys September 3, 2012 6:39 PM BST
boruc was better also imo
Report erogenous_zone September 3, 2012 6:43 PM BST
was just about to say id take boruc over forster. and venegoor of hessalink would start
Report Feck N. Eejit September 3, 2012 6:44 PM BST
The sevconians are absolutely sh1tting themselves in case the blessed one is the new Jock Stein LaughLaugh

PS Craig sends his good wishes to his 46,000 mugs.
Report Irish_Celtic September 3, 2012 6:45 PM BST
Ally is the new Wally tho Laugh
Report erogenous_zone September 3, 2012 6:46 PM BST
venegoor of hessalink would start up front with hooper. ill give you hooper, 44 goals in 65 games isnt too shabby.
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 6:47 PM BST
Miku wil tear up the SPL, and Europe.  Cool
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 6:49 PM BST
Feck N. Eejit 03 Sep 12 18:44 Joined: 10 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 8,094 | Blogger: Feck N. Eejit's blog
The sevconians are absolutely sh1tting themselves in case the blessed one is the new Jock Stein

PS Craig sends his good wishes to his 46,000 mugs.

No Feck that can't be right at all, after all the betfair "neutrals" were getting in each others way starting threads about how poor he was and when he was getting sacked.
I wonder if they know what his record is like in comparison with previous managers?
Report Irish_Celtic September 3, 2012 6:52 PM BST
Venegoor had his uses at home , but away in champions leauge more like a double wardrobe running about up front.

Hopefully the two new strikers have that bit of quality to take the few chances we get away from home. Cant see more than

1 point away and 4 at best at home. Third place would be very acceptable this season.
Report thebrave September 3, 2012 6:52 PM BST
Boruc at his peak definitely, but the Boruc that was evident later in his Celtic career Confused
Venegoor would get a game today Confused Who drops out for him Confused Hooper??
I suspect Miku would not either, so struggling to et big Jan a game Confused

Grin
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 6:57 PM BST
Overall Neil Lennon record as Celtic manager in Europe:

P-16 W-7 (43%) D-4 (25%) L-5 (32%)

Compare this with walter myths last 31 games in Europe
Played: 31
Won: 3   Laugh
Lost: 13
Drawn: 15
Report Irish_Celtic September 3, 2012 7:06 PM BST
They  played with dignity Timmy Wink
Report thebrave September 3, 2012 7:08 PM BST
Haw yooz, show a wee bitta respect WhoopsSilly
The Wattenacio is a famed and revered system throughout Europe GrinCool
Report mactheknife September 3, 2012 7:17 PM BST
Is this Neil`s first full Champions League campaign proper?
Lets no be premature in judging him one way or the other, he could be the second coming.
Report Irish_Celtic September 3, 2012 7:19 PM BST
Did Joe get back with his updated figures for last season yet ? Laugh
Report inner city sumo September 3, 2012 7:50 PM BST
7 points for Celtic at home, 4 away. Job done. Good draw in the knockouts, QF/Semis a likelihood.
Report thebrave September 3, 2012 7:52 PM BST
ICS - I like to think I am among the more optimistic of Celtic supporters, but I wouldn't mind
a blast at the Bob Marley woodbine you're smoking CoolCool


Grin
Report liamcol September 3, 2012 9:26 PM BST
Oh, and I meant to add, Benfica have sold 2 of their best players, Javi Garcia and Axel Witsel, which is nice. Cool
Report The Bhoys September 3, 2012 9:32 PM BST
celtic have still got theres Samaras Cry
Report freddiek November 7, 2012 10:26 PM GMT

Sep 3, 2012 -- 3:14PM, Biscuit1979 wrote:


"I'm looking for win v benfica, draw or win in moscow, draw at least home v barca, win at home v spartak, draw at benfica"So to summarise, you're looking at 4 points off Benfica, 4-6 points off Spartak and a draw at home to Barca. You must be drunk.I'm not sure whether you just vastly over estimate Celtic or whether you think the other sides aren't that good. Perhaps it's both. Either way you will get absolutely nowhere near 8/9/10 points.I would bet you will lose all 3 away games, and at home to Barca, might nick a draw at home to Benfica if they have an off night which leaves Spartak at home is your only realistic hope of 3 points.


.

Report freddiek November 7, 2012 10:26 PM GMT

Sep 3, 2012 -- 9:53AM, Biscuit1979 wrote:


"I don’t see much between the 3 of us"You're obviously extremely biased but there is no chance that there is not much between you and Benfica. They will tear you apart. Salvio, Cardozo, Nolito, Rodrgio, Witsel, Cesar, Aimar, Ola John, your defence doesn't have a hope in hell of keeping them out.Spartak aren't a bad side either. You were outplayed by Helsingborg away and couldn't even beat Ross County. English based bookies don't dismiss you because they're arrogant, they dismiss you because you are sh*te.


.

Report starfish and coffee November 7, 2012 10:26 PM GMT
Biscuit1979 03 Sep 12 09:53 Joined: 16 Nov 10 | Topic/replies: 33,490 | Blogger: Biscuit1979's blog
"I don’t see much between the 3 of us"




You're obviously extremely biased but there is no chance that there is not much between you and Benfica. They will tear you apart. Salvio, Cardozo, Nolito, Rodrgio, Witsel, Cesar, Aimar, Ola John, your defence doesn't have a hope in hell of keeping them out.

Spartak aren't a bad side either.

You were outplayed by Helsingborg away and couldn't even beat Ross County. English based bookies don't dismiss you because they're arrogant, they dismiss you because you are sh*te.





Laugh
Report liamcol November 7, 2012 10:35 PM GMT
A pleasing thread.  Grin

The 7/1 is now available to back at 1/3 Shocked Cool

I liked this post particularly.



newco-Joe67
03 Sep 12 10:40
Joined:
11 Jul 12
| Topic/replies: 450 | Blogger: newco-Joe67's blog
Celtic will be beaten in all 6 games probably by more than 1 goal in each game. Maybe they can keep the score down against Spartak at home but wouldn't bet on it. They have no defence to speak of. Kelvin Wilson is a League 2 standard player, Lustig is rubbish, no other centre backs , this new guy they bought has played a season in Isreal.. big deal. Barcelona will score 7 or 8 against these guys. This could possibly be the most embarrassing campaign by any club in the champions league.

LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Mr Eboue November 7, 2012 10:36 PM GMT
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report starfish and coffee November 7, 2012 10:46 PM GMT
Can anyone bump up the "Champions league draw" thread ?

There's a few belting comments on that as well regarding Celtics chances and a few people need reminded Laugh

Was around about the 30th of August
Report themightymac November 7, 2012 10:51 PM GMT
Well done Celtic you have created shock waves throughout Europe.
Report JamDav1982 November 7, 2012 10:55 PM GMT
I still think it could be tight for Celtic.

If they get beat by Benfica and Barcelona win Celtic and Benfica will both be on 7 points.

In the last group game in the last few year Barcelona have played their reserve side.

Benfica would stand a decent chance of getting points in that game.
Report JamDav1982 November 7, 2012 10:56 PM GMT

Nov 7, 2012 -- 10:51PM, themightymac wrote:


Well done Celtic you have created shock waves throughout Europe.


Steady on now, that would be the case if they eliminated Barcelona or something not win a one off game.

Dont forget the likes of BATE have beat Bayern this season yet that hardly sent shock waves around.

Report themightymac November 7, 2012 11:06 PM GMT
Well I`m shocked ShockedShocked
Report Winner_Winner_Chicken_Diner November 7, 2012 11:10 PM GMT
epic post by Biscuit on this thread, I gave him 5 stars
Report TheChaser November 20, 2012 5:29 PM GMT
bump
Report starfish and coffee November 20, 2012 5:37 PM GMT
Sparta coming to Parkhead in last game with nothing to play for, lets hope the play their youngsters.
Report berto77 December 5, 2012 9:46 PM GMT
Worth a bump Laugh
Report starfish and coffee December 5, 2012 9:47 PM GMT
GrinCool
Report themover December 5, 2012 9:55 PM GMT
wd liamcol Cool
Report Glossy December 5, 2012 10:01 PM GMT
Quite a few made to look mugs here.

Biscuit1979 will leave the forum if her has any dignity.
Report Glossy December 5, 2012 10:01 PM GMT
wd liam btw
Report dlarssonf December 5, 2012 10:02 PM GMT
Biscuit1979 CryCryCryCry
Report Biscuit1979 December 5, 2012 10:09 PM GMT
Yeah i think it's fair to say i called this one wrong. Blush
Already held my hands up on one of the other Celtic champions league threads after they beat Barca anyway.

I'm sure i'm not the only one who's been surprised at how well they've done.

Well done to Celtic and anyone that backed them
Report Rob_The_Bantam December 5, 2012 10:13 PM GMT
Sorry, Biscuit, but I believe that the appropriate response is to either never visit the thread again and feign ignorance of its existence, or to call everyone a mug while claiming you were on them to qualify and so trying not to jinx the bet.  Saying you were wrong and showing humility is not the done thing on here.

You mug.
Report liamcol December 5, 2012 10:14 PM GMT
A most pleasing thread. Cool
Report berto77 December 5, 2012 10:15 PM GMT

Dec 5, 2012 -- 10:13PM, Rob_The_Bantam wrote:


Sorry, Biscuit, but I believe that the appropriate response is to either never visit the thread again and feign ignorance of its existence, or to call everyone a mug while claiming you were on them to qualify and so trying not to jinx the bet.  Saying you were wrong and showing humility is not the done thing on here.You mug.


Laugh

I was thinking the same.  It'll never catch on.

Report Geesyerdosh December 5, 2012 10:19 PM GMT
wd liam I didn't give them a hope in hell. Done Scotland proud.
Report Biscuit1979 December 5, 2012 10:21 PM GMT
Just saw the Celtic penalty decision, i think the ref had backed them to qualify too
Report freddiek December 5, 2012 10:24 PM GMT
Grin
Report sofaking December 5, 2012 10:24 PM GMT
Were outclassed for most of tonight's game and dived to achieve their win but well done to them anyway. Happy
Report berto77 December 5, 2012 10:24 PM GMT
You were one iffy decision away from redemption biscuit Laugh
Report Psilocybin December 5, 2012 10:31 PM GMT
Well done.  Good shout!
Report desperatemunter December 5, 2012 10:35 PM GMT
Love
Report tonymontana December 5, 2012 10:41 PM GMT
knew celtic would win this lennon is new martin o neil
Report GoldCupWinner December 5, 2012 10:50 PM GMT
I thought it was a pen. There was definite contact.
Report Mr Mischief December 6, 2012 2:47 AM GMT
tttGrin
Report tobermory December 6, 2012 3:15 AM GMT
well done
Report mactheknife December 6, 2012 4:54 AM GMT
Well done liam hope you won lots.
Report BARNEY21. December 6, 2012 8:31 AM GMT
Biscuit 1979 I was at the game and the "penalty" happened right in front of me and yes I thought it was soft very soft in fact,on seeing the re-play 4/5 times now the ref got it "spot on" exc pun the defender stood on Sammis foot,still soft but still a penalty we have lost out on these plenty of times so a wee bit of evening up last night,a terrific performance from everyone at Celtic you must remember the constraints we compete under and credit where credits due. hail hail.
Report liamcol August 28, 2013 10:34 PM BST
Funny looking back on this, maybe history will repeat itself, how shameful for some.
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