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my theory: he is afraid he can not win against morinho. barcas dominace over the past 4 to 5 years have been all about messi. almost any manager in the world could have achieved what he has don with players there.
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Congratulations , youve made my top ten "most stupid posts on the football forum ever" and Ive been here over ten years. Let me tell you , you have beaten off some fierce competition - well done.
there's no argument that he was in the right place at the right time when the job became available. and he certainly hqad a head start in his managerial career.
but to suggest that anybody could have done it is somewhat fanciful.
having said that there is a case to be made that he's not the fantastic manager some would have you believe.
but to suggest that anybody could have done it is somewhat fanciful.
having said that there is a case to be made that he's not the fantastic manager some would have you believe.
He transformed Barcelona and all the top players at the club.
Nobody can question what he has achieved.
Nobody can question what he has achieved.
Apr 26, 2012 -- 6:56PM, wallis wrote:
Congratulations , youve made my top ten "most stupid posts on the football forum ever" and Ive been here over ten years.
nobody can question what his team has achieved.
the improvement in some of the players can be put down to his coaching, or it might be explained by them maturing naturally.
i think it's a widely held belief that the team hasn't improved in the last twelve months or so.
and there are a few mutterings amongst "the discontents" about the lack of variety in the play.
we shall only know how good/great a coach he is when/if he goes on and does it again perhaps starting from a slightly lower base.
the improvement in some of the players can be put down to his coaching, or it might be explained by them maturing naturally.
i think it's a widely held belief that the team hasn't improved in the last twelve months or so.
and there are a few mutterings amongst "the discontents" about the lack of variety in the play.
we shall only know how good/great a coach he is when/if he goes on and does it again perhaps starting from a slightly lower base.
Whatever he achieves elswhere wont matter for the job he has done at Barcelona.
He transformed them from a team lagging behind a fairly poor Real Madrid team to arguably the greatest side in history.
For all the arguments against Barcelona's style, tell me one style that has been more successful over the last twenty years.
Guardiola deserves full credit for everything achieved at Barcelona these last four years.
He transformed them from a team lagging behind a fairly poor Real Madrid team to arguably the greatest side in history.
For all the arguments against Barcelona's style, tell me one style that has been more successful over the last twenty years.
Guardiola deserves full credit for everything achieved at Barcelona these last four years.
i reckon the jury's still out to a certain extent. turning an outfit from the second best to the best [ especially when he had someone who was to become the best player in the world in that team] is hardly recordbreaking stuff is it.
how much was him how much the players [a bit of each probably] we will find out when he goes on to other challenges.
one things for sure
he wont be short of offers.
how much was him how much the players [a bit of each probably] we will find out when he goes on to other challenges.
one things for sure
he wont be short of offers.
agreed mexicano if he achieved 1/10th of what he achieved with any other team i would call him a great manager. but with the barca team of messies and inestas nothing especial there. rikarrd have achieved almost comparable results with ronaldinho at the center of the game. and everybody knows that Frank Rijkaard couldnt repeat his achievements outside barca. guardiola improved on the work of Frank Rijkaard with messi replacing ronaldinho. let us see him managing other teams without 2 or 3 of the best players of their genration and 1 arguably the best player to ever play fottball, and see him winning and i will call him great manager
Mexicano purely talking about his job at Barcelona he was phenomenal and improved all the players at the club and brought in a system that won 13 trophies.
There is no 'jury out' whatsoever on that.
There is no 'jury out' whatsoever on that.
having to endure watching chelski for 3hours made up his mind imo
dont forget that Frank Rijkaard have won 2 back to back laliga titles aginst the madrid of galticos and 1 champions league without messi.
Henok Messi played a big part on Rijkaard's CL win, he was their best player in their toughest tie against Chelsea.
Guardiola's Barcelona is far superior to that one previously.
Guardiola's Barcelona is far superior to that one previously.
my mum could have managed that lot to win a few things and it's mostly franks team anyway
What utter rubbish.
Some folk on here really have no idea.
Some folk on here really have no idea.
Jamdav, but messi has developed as well as a player. in addtion i m not denying gardiola havent improved tha game at barca or the players, what i am saying is any average manager in the big european leagues could have done the same with the players available in barca.
Not a chance Henok, Guardiola transformed them completely.
Where were these players the two seasons before Guariola took over?
They were great players not performing anywhere near the level they are now, not one of them.
Where were these players the two seasons before Guariola took over?
They were great players not performing anywhere near the level they are now, not one of them.
are u sure? xavi , pique and inista were important players when they won 2 laligas and CL with frank
100% sure.
Xavi was injured the season they won the CL, Iniesta didnt start the final and Pique was a Man Utd player.
You dont really have a clue do you?
Xavi was injured the season they won the CL, Iniesta didnt start the final and Pique was a Man Utd player.
You dont really have a clue do you?
Someone needs to be held accountable for the signing of Cesc Fabregas. Guardiola has been asked to resign imo
the jury is out because he started from such a high base with an exceptional [though underperforming] group of players.
should he go on and repeat his feat at another club [from a slightly lower base maybe] then he will be lauded as a truly great manager.
should he not find success at onother place some may take the view that he was lucky to be in the right time at the right place in barca.
should he go on and repeat his feat at another club [from a slightly lower base maybe] then he will be lauded as a truly great manager.
should he not find success at onother place some may take the view that he was lucky to be in the right time at the right place in barca.
If I have to read one more word about the "Best Team Ever" it will be one too many.
If I have to watch another minute of that one dimensional pitter patter football mostly played in their own half then it will be one minute of my life wasted.
If I have to read another word about Messi "The Greatest Player Ever" who has never performed outside of his comfort zone in Spain then I will throw up.
Overhyped,overrated,and a perfect team for the facebook generation.....
If I have to watch another minute of that one dimensional pitter patter football mostly played in their own half then it will be one minute of my life wasted.
If I have to read another word about Messi "The Greatest Player Ever" who has never performed outside of his comfort zone in Spain then I will throw up.
Overhyped,overrated,and a perfect team for the facebook generation.....
Mexicano, that exceptional bunch of players were lagging behind an average Real Madrid side at the time Guardiola took over.
Barcalona are the greatest footballing team i have ever seen, pep guardiola has changed how football should be played.Every team that comes up against barcalona stuffs the penalty box with 11 men, why is that ? cos they simply cannot get the ball.
Apr 26, 2012 -- 7:39PM, JamDav1982 wrote:
100% sure.Xavi was injured the season they won the CL, Iniesta didnt start the final and Pique was a Man Utd player.You dont really have a clue do you?
the pique case was a mistake as specified in the next comment, Jamdav, if u can read carefully, i am not mentioning a particular game or a particular season i am speaking in general terms over 2 laliga and 1 CL winning seasons. FYI i dont know in detail over who was inured and who played in a particular season or game 
. however even before guardiola came , inista and xavi for instance were considered amongest the best midifilders in europe and puyol as a one of the best defenders. we can say these players were underperforming just before gardiola took charge, as we can to someextent agree on the claim that these same players including messi havent performed as they did last year
jam
you're very selective in your use of other peoples quotes.
i also said they were underperforming.
you reckon he's a great manager.
what players has he signed to improve barca from where they were when he took over?
ibra and fabregas weren't unqualified successes.
there is an argument to be made that he inherited an exceptional team that were underperforming, and got them firing on all cylinders. that in itself although a good achievement is not enough.
the proof of his managerial greatness will be if he can do it again.
you're very selective in your use of other peoples quotes.
i also said they were underperforming.
you reckon he's a great manager.
what players has he signed to improve barca from where they were when he took over?
ibra and fabregas weren't unqualified successes.
there is an argument to be made that he inherited an exceptional team that were underperforming, and got them firing on all cylinders. that in itself although a good achievement is not enough.
the proof of his managerial greatness will be if he can do it again.
Guardiola did a phenomenal job at Barca. However I really think the players there now are capable of even better, more attacking, more exciting football. Can't wait to see it.
Guardiola totally transformed Barcelona, he improved the performance of all the top players there and brought in a style that won 13 trophies.
Mexicano the players, fans and anyone connected with the club acknowledges that.
Of the players that were their already - Xavi, Iniesta,Messi,Abidal,Puyol and Valdes - all of them improved hugely and all would credit it to Guardiola whether you do or not.
Mexicano the players, fans and anyone connected with the club acknowledges that.
Of the players that were their already - Xavi, Iniesta,Messi,Abidal,Puyol and Valdes - all of them improved hugely and all would credit it to Guardiola whether you do or not.
you can make the argument that he improved them as players, somebody else could counter that theory by saying that the players got better by naturally maturing.
it seems to me that great managers can improve teams by improving the players there.
they can improve teams by pinpointing weakness in the team and going into the transfer market to strengthen.
they can improve teams by introducing differn't tagtics for differnt scenarios.
the can improve teams by motivating them so that they can achieve more.
now if he's managed to do all these things to such an extent that have made barca the force they are now, w4e can expect him to do a similar thing at a differn't club.
if , however he is merely a "good" coach who got lucky by being in situ when the job landed in his lap and it wass as much to do with the team maturing as his input only time will tell us.
it seems to me that great managers can improve teams by improving the players there.
they can improve teams by pinpointing weakness in the team and going into the transfer market to strengthen.
they can improve teams by introducing differn't tagtics for differnt scenarios.
the can improve teams by motivating them so that they can achieve more.
now if he's managed to do all these things to such an extent that have made barca the force they are now, w4e can expect him to do a similar thing at a differn't club.
if , however he is merely a "good" coach who got lucky by being in situ when the job landed in his lap and it wass as much to do with the team maturing as his input only time will tell us.
Clearly all those players improved under Guardiola.
Its not even a point to be debated really.
Xavi would have been 27/28 at the time and not even regarded as the top CM in the world at the time, to now being arguably one of the greatest ever.
Mexicano what are the conditions that a manager goes into a club at that you would consider that they have done an amazing job?
Its not even a point to be debated really.
Xavi would have been 27/28 at the time and not even regarded as the top CM in the world at the time, to now being arguably one of the greatest ever.
Mexicano what are the conditions that a manager goes into a club at that you would consider that they have done an amazing job?
Mexicano what are the conditions that a manager goes into a club at that you would consider that they have done an amazing job?
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amazing job?
winning trophies with various clubs.
taking a club from being perrenial lower half finishers and getting them to challenge for major honours on a regular basis
as i've said what he's done at barca might be exceptional, but nobody can say with any degree of confidence how much is down to him, and how much is about good players maturing as a group.
should he do it again , then he would have to be seriously considered as one of the greats.
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amazing job?
winning trophies with various clubs.
taking a club from being perrenial lower half finishers and getting them to challenge for major honours on a regular basis
as i've said what he's done at barca might be exceptional, but nobody can say with any degree of confidence how much is down to him, and how much is about good players maturing as a group.
should he do it again , then he would have to be seriously considered as one of the greats.
I am not saying that Guardiola os an amazing manager for every club as that cant be discussed, I am saying he was phenomenal for Barcelona and took them on to a whole new level.
Xavi was 28 when Guardiola took over and was not regarded as the best midfielder in europe let alone one of the best ever as he is now. Like wise with Iniesta.
By your reckoning Mexicano no manager can ever be credited with developing players, as it may have happened naturally.
Xavi, Iniesta and the rest improved hugely under Guardiola. It is not even up for question really.
Xavi was 28 when Guardiola took over and was not regarded as the best midfielder in europe let alone one of the best ever as he is now. Like wise with Iniesta.
By your reckoning Mexicano no manager can ever be credited with developing players, as it may have happened naturally.
Xavi, Iniesta and the rest improved hugely under Guardiola. It is not even up for question really.
i dont understand ur logic , all of these(Xavi, Iniesta,Messi,Abidal,Puyol and Valdes) were great players before guardiola came. he imprved some here and there but hardly anything career changing. if u want to compare his player development then u have to compare him to the likes of wenger and feguson, taking unknown raw talent and turning into superstars managing their football and personal development.
xavi and iniesta may not have been regarded as the best midfielders in europe but they were certainly regarded as bloody good players.
guardiola was the reserve team manager not particularly improving the reserves into worldbeaters then the ist team job fell into his lap.
the team were underperforming, going nowhere, but had been the best team in europe not long before.
now some of the improvement might be down to him
all of the improvement might be down to him,
or it might be a highly talented bunch of players had been demotivated by their coach and a change of regime perked them all up [see chelsea circa 2012]
as i said we can only guess how mutch is down to the manager.
but should he do it again he would have to be given serious consideration.
guardiola was the reserve team manager not particularly improving the reserves into worldbeaters then the ist team job fell into his lap.
the team were underperforming, going nowhere, but had been the best team in europe not long before.
now some of the improvement might be down to him
all of the improvement might be down to him,
or it might be a highly talented bunch of players had been demotivated by their coach and a change of regime perked them all up [see chelsea circa 2012]
as i said we can only guess how mutch is down to the manager.
but should he do it again he would have to be given serious consideration.
Henok - Xavi was 28 and not even considered the best in the world when Guardiola took over. He was even behind Deco for the most part in how players were rated at Barcelona.
Likewise with Iniesta he was not even a regular for the most part in the seasons before Gaurdiola.
Neither were ever considered in the lists of best players in the world before 2008.
As for Abidal, he went from being seen as a weakness at Barcelona to arguably the best left back in the world.
Puyol and Valdes too improved hugely and were both seen as a bit injury prone prior to Guardiola.
This is the way it was seen back then in 2008.
Likewise with Iniesta he was not even a regular for the most part in the seasons before Gaurdiola.
Neither were ever considered in the lists of best players in the world before 2008.
As for Abidal, he went from being seen as a weakness at Barcelona to arguably the best left back in the world.
Puyol and Valdes too improved hugely and were both seen as a bit injury prone prior to Guardiola.
This is the way it was seen back then in 2008.
Mexicano - you need to read up before spouting off about Guardiola in the B team job. He did a fantastic job for them and got them promoted on the back of a long unbeaten run.
All the players I have mentioned improved massively, of course some credit goes to both the player and manager.
As you said he helped turn the likes of Xavi and Iniesta into 'bloody good players' to players who will go down as legends of the game.
The players themselves credit Guardiola, strange you seem to think you know more than them.
All the players I have mentioned improved massively, of course some credit goes to both the player and manager.
As you said he helped turn the likes of Xavi and Iniesta into 'bloody good players' to players who will go down as legends of the game.
The players themselves credit Guardiola, strange you seem to think you know more than them.
jam
as per when it comes to barca everything goes out the window with you and you start throwing the toys out of the pram.
you've got an opinion [and that's all it is]
i've not said you're wrong, in fact i've even said you might be right.
but it can't be proved. even if he goes and does it again it can't be proved, but we can have a reasonable guess.
meanwhile you are trying to move heaven and earth seeing every best case scenario in order to try and prove your point, which is impossible because it's an opinion.
as per when it comes to barca everything goes out the window with you and you start throwing the toys out of the pram.
you've got an opinion [and that's all it is]
i've not said you're wrong, in fact i've even said you might be right.
but it can't be proved. even if he goes and does it again it can't be proved, but we can have a reasonable guess.
meanwhile you are trying to move heaven and earth seeing every best case scenario in order to try and prove your point, which is impossible because it's an opinion.
JamDav1982
What have I got to be jealous about ?
Go with the flow,suck up all the hype and go to work in the morning.
By the way I have had no need to work since 2003.And I am still a (fairly) young man.
If you admire the no tackling, possession, pitter patter football of Barcelona well all well and good but it is not for me.I prefer a bit of action and passion....
What have I got to be jealous about ?
Go with the flow,suck up all the hype and go to work in the morning.
By the way I have had no need to work since 2003.And I am still a (fairly) young man.
If you admire the no tackling, possession, pitter patter football of Barcelona well all well and good but it is not for me.I prefer a bit of action and passion....
Yes he had a bit of a leg up at Barcelona but who would turn down such an offer and what could he do to prove he did a great job. He managed a high profile club and copped with the pressures of managing big personalities and been under huge scrutiny.
41 years old and two European cups he is not a mug.
He has brought through the likes of Busquests, Pedro and Tiago as the next generation of stars. He has reinvented Messi positionally he has had his team play a fantastic brand of football.
The likes of Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas consider him an idol and a mentor and they have progressed under him.
A lot of big clubs would do really well if he is available.
41 years old and two European cups he is not a mug.
He has brought through the likes of Busquests, Pedro and Tiago as the next generation of stars. He has reinvented Messi positionally he has had his team play a fantastic brand of football.
The likes of Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas consider him an idol and a mentor and they have progressed under him.
A lot of big clubs would do really well if he is available.
Mexicano - I am not trying to speak about how good Guardiola will be at other clubs but rather how good he has been for Barcelona.
He took over the season after they had finished third behind Madrid and Villarreal and only 3 points ahead of fifth placed Valencia.
The club was in a bit of turmoil and the top players at the club - Etoo, Ronaldinho and Deco were out of control and in danger of ruining Messi.
Guardiola got rid of Ronaldinho and Deco and made Xavi and Iniesta the main men in midfield.
Xavi, Iniesta, Abidal, Puyol, Valdes all improved dramtically as did Henry who was poor the season before.
The result was the club winning all six trophies they entered. Helped by new signings like Alves, Keita and Pique.
Guardiola had a huge impact.
He took over the season after they had finished third behind Madrid and Villarreal and only 3 points ahead of fifth placed Valencia.
The club was in a bit of turmoil and the top players at the club - Etoo, Ronaldinho and Deco were out of control and in danger of ruining Messi.
Guardiola got rid of Ronaldinho and Deco and made Xavi and Iniesta the main men in midfield.
Xavi, Iniesta, Abidal, Puyol, Valdes all improved dramtically as did Henry who was poor the season before.
The result was the club winning all six trophies they entered. Helped by new signings like Alves, Keita and Pique.
Guardiola had a huge impact.
henok, you have no idea, guardiola´s team is infinite better than Mou´s team, just look the champions league semifinals. Mou is just a overrated trainer that goes in a $$$ project, Chelsea.... Inter.... Madrid over 2000 million € invested for him, lets see "The special one in QPR"... for example.
henok, you have no idea, guardiola´s team is infinite better than Mou´s team, just look the champions league semifinals. Mou is just a overrated trainer that goes in a $$$ project, Chelsea.... Inter.... Madrid over 2000 million € invested for him, lets see "The special one in QPR"... for example.
joan
surely the qpr argument is as pertinent to guardiola?
surely the qpr argument is as pertinent to guardiola?
Rilkaard built a great team at Bracelona but it peaked in 2005/06 and then steadily declined .By the time Guardiola took charge the team was about as good as the current Man United side .Imagine if 2 years from now Man United had the greatest team in football history, that would be pretty amazing and improbable.
Mexicano I agree, but Barça today is infinite better the Moudrid... if Guardiola goes is because of him nothing to do with Mou..., If he goes is because winning everything he has nor motivation.
guardiola was there just to be part of the inevitable barca world domination. i know a set of good players doesnt always lead to success. and i think that happens when the players have different playing style that doesnt work together and individualistic ego. then a great manager can lead them to success by instigating solidarity and changing formation to fit the style of the players.
however in the case of barca, the core of the players grew up in the team playing the same kind of football the team plays at senior level. and fortunately the players seem to be fairly nice lads dedicated to work for each other level of dedication to the barca cause , hardly any individualistic ego and higherat least from what we hear. this isnt difficult to motivate.
for me Frank Rijkaard's achivement is of higher level than gardiolas.
however in the case of barca, the core of the players grew up in the team playing the same kind of football the team plays at senior level. and fortunately the players seem to be fairly nice lads dedicated to work for each other level of dedication to the barca cause , hardly any individualistic ego and higherat least from what we hear. this isnt difficult to motivate.
for me Frank Rijkaard's achivement is of higher level than gardiolas.
Apr 26, 2012 -- 9:19PM, joan2003 wrote:
Mexicano I agree, but Barça today is infinite better the Moudrid... if Guardiola goes is because of him nothing to do with Mou..., If he goes is because winning everything he has nor motivation.
if he was motivated to mange and win at the start of this playing season , he should be motivated to manage next year because he hasnt won anything this year.
Apr 26, 2012 -- 9:06PM, joan2003 wrote:
henok, you have no idea, guardiola´s team is infinite better than Mou´s team, just look the champions league semifinals. Mou is just a overrated trainer that goes in a $$$ project, Chelsea.... Inter.... Madrid over 2000 million € invested for him, lets see "The special one in QPR"... for example.
do u remember porto winning champions league
Over-rated over-hyped and thank fook with that style of football not over here....
Over rated? Over hyped?
There are teams that try to play like that in the EPL and get praised to high heavens.
homefortea - what type of football do you like?
There are teams that try to play like that in the EPL and get praised to high heavens.
homefortea - what type of football do you like?
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