Will Ferguson's mind games work this time?

'Mind games' is just a bullsh1t term created by the media.

However, I'd say Vieira has got under Ferguson's skin here and Ferguson has taken a big bite... surprised that he'd be fished so easily

That spitting streak of gooner p*ss does have a bit of form with United.

Bang on jason-dodd!

Bunch of back page inkslingers bringing themselves off over a big pile of nothing as usual.

Word up: it's what the rest of the world calls 'being a bit if a (unt' and generally gets you ignored.

Yes I'm sure fergie is new to all this and viera's comments have well and truly rattled his cage...either that or you are a cretin. One of the two.

Roy

Was there any need to be insulting? Grow up.

To the neutral, this looks - imo - like SAF has reacted to Vieira's comments. Why is 'cretinous'?

This is typical Ferguson, he is stirring the pot. I think he enjoys the mind-games as much as he enjoys the football.

Apologies Dodd, may have been a tad harsh...but come on now...after everything fergie's been through I strongly doubt viera has got under his skin. Its a classic fergie response designed to drive his own agenda, winning.

Only one winner here.

S.A.F.

I do think the mind games thing is a load of old pony. The best team will win. Some years it was Arsenal, other years it was Chelsea, most of the time it's been Utd.

Basically, if Fergie says something in the press and an opposition manager reacts angrily and fails to win, then it's mind games. If Fergie says something in the press and the opposition manager reacts angrily but goes on to win anyway, then it's....a load of old b0ll0cks.

As I said in the utd thread history has shown its not bullocks.

A winner like Ferguson would not pay so much heed to this sort of thing if it had a negligible impact on either his team or the opposition. This sort of thing might be to send a message to his players more than anything else.

Whether you want to call it mind games or not is up to you but the likes of mourinho and Ferguson just would not waste time with it.

the press will bigggg up any molehill,at the time it did look a bit odd-scholes coming back

Thanks Roy.

I'm not trying to wind you up, it just looks to me like he has bitten on a bit of bait.

Let's face it, if you de-personalised the comments, I think you'd agree, and I'm not sure SAF's history in the matter should make a difference.

I'm not sure SAF's history in the matter should make a difference.

Of course it should. If this was out of character you might be able to suggest with more credibility that viera has got under his skin but realistically its just a nonsense given the man's track record in this area.

This appears a fairly well calculated response.

fergus in vieiras net before it touched the water

top fishing patrice

Strange the media obsess about this sort of thing but depressing so many seem to buy it.  Some united fans seem to try to use it to paint ferguson as some sort of genius, which isn't really necessary with the amount of sucess he has had over the past 20 years.

Presumably if city drop points on saturday it will be because silva, toure and co are so distracted by a bitchy comment ferguson made in a press conference today

over the years, Ferguson has let a lot of people get to him. He's not some cool, unflappable character, He has a famously hot temper. But he has usually come back with plenty of his own and won the war

Loue...engage what grey matter you do have.

Are you telling me the likes of fergie and mourinho just engage in this sort of thing out of boredom? Or do these proven winners see it as another weapon??!

Ask Kevin Keegan if it works?

Engage in what sort of thing?  It's not some grand masterplan, he's answered a question at a press conference.  He seemed irrated with what vieria said and had a dig back of his own (both had a point imo).  I can't see how it affects the performance of man city, though I may be wrong.

your not wrong imo

RoyKeane

So in your mind, nothing SAF does or says can ever be construed as him biting.

That's basically what you're saying, isn't it?

I don't know if Ferguson bites or not, but in any case I think he just loves a good fight. Come on, he is Glaswegian after all

patrice 1  sir alex 0

the player got played!

lets see who has the last laugh as per usual the greatest manager of all time

The pressure of winning/losing is the only thing that matters. This mind-games stuff is small beer.

Why did Wenger's team win doubles/go unbeaten for a whole season and at other times, fail to win?

Is it because some years Wenger couldn't handle Fergie saying things in the press? Or is it simply that some years, Wenger had better players -- with part of being better having a strong mentality able to handle the pressure of winning games in a title run-in?

Correlation doesn't equal causation i.e. just because Keegan/Rafa had a meltdown at Fergie and failed to win the title doesn't mean that Fergie's comments were the deciding factor. If they were, then it doesn't explain why Wenger got the better of Utd some seasons, and others he did not. What does explain it is having better players and those who can handle the expectation of winning.

If mind games could win things then what happened in europe

'Mind Games' is a Sky Sports Myth, no one who matters believes it, including Fergie IMO

'Mind Games' is a Sky Sports Myth, no one who matters believes it, including Fergie IMO

Agreed.

Teveth wiped his batty on his citeh shirt but all those desperate bitters love him.

Fergies lauging at ya!

Fergie has always used these 'mind games' to try and divert attention away from poor man-u performances.

when newcastle were challenging and Fergies side only scraped a win against a 10 man leeds with Lucas Radabe in goal his post match interview focused on his opinion that leeds only try against man u and would 'lie down' in their upcoming fixture with Newcastle, the comment that famously sent Keegan apoplectic

then done the same thing with an attack on Wenger saying he doesnt know anything about english football when Arsenal were the better looking team in 97-98 to take attention away from man u dropping points by getting beat by Derby.

I think he may be starting his shenanigans now for similar reasons

imo

Didn't they just win 5-0?

sure they won 5-0......

but questions are starting to surface about performances, his players and his own managerial effectiveness

so imo a wee diversion tactic for the press to get their teeth into rather than seriously analyzing man-u

It's all a lot of hot air but the supporters like to see it as it's akin to the kind of conversation they'd have down the pub with opposition fans (or dare I say it on the Betfair Forum).

Viera was spot on with his assesment, bringing Paul Scholes out of retirement was a desperate move by Fergie and it looks to have been a very good move. Ditto Mancini.

but questions are starting to surface about performances, his players and his own managerial effectiveness

After a pretty impressive run of near maximum points from a tough fixture list, it's virtually the opposite to what you claim.

Have you been in hibernation by any chance?

no hibernation

yeah they've had a great run unbeaten in 9

but you can dig up plenty of headlines where you see the questions being asked (something I dont have the time to do for you) particulary on some of his defenders, having to bring scholes and giggs back from the nineties and whether he should leave man u himself for a new manager to come in

all of this will be compounded and be making headlines if they start to falter now and concede the chamionship to city

thats why I think mind game stuff has started

What you're saying makes no sense whatsoever.

The 'mind games' have supposedly started today, yet you're talking about things that have happened over the course of the season.

At this present moment in time, SAF is probably under less pressure than at any other stage in the season.

nineties ?? should be 'retirement'

apologies

Giggs has never retired, and when was the last time someone suggested Man Utd should bring in a new Manager?

You're just making things up.

At this present moment in time, SAF is probably under less pressure than at any other stage in the season.

sorry but that statement makes no sense whatsoever, sitting top by a point with them still to play the chasing team......

yeah OK so he was under more pressure in the opening game with West Brom then???

Use your common sense ffs.

Before the season started? Of course not.

But sitting behind City - some way, at times - is surely more pressure than having just gone on a great run and gone top, particularly when speaking about his position as Manager being tenable.

Your whole point is bizarre, imo.

yeah no worries, just my opinion

I have to dissagree, imo when they were behind a team thats paying well and has unlimited cash reserves, plus quite an extensive injury list the pressure is less bcuase for all those reasons stated he has a ready made excuse, and would gain plaudits for bieng so close

However he now finds himself one point in front with almost a full strength squad to pick from, and easier looking fixture run in and really has no excuses if he cant deliver the title, thats more pressure imo

I'm sorry, but can we just stop and think about this for a minute?

The original suggestion was that Ferguson is under pressure from people suggesting that he should be replaced, and that's why 'he's started the mind games'. And now you're trying to tell me that he's more likely to feel the pressure having gone on a great run and gone top, rather than being seven points behind their local rivals?

Sorry, it just doesn't make sense.

It can make sense that Man u have a greater expectation on them to win the title than city and being top now means they can only throw it away themselves by dropping point and / or not taking all 3 points from city.

thats pressure, and in no doubt they will be feeling it over at United

My opinion was that he has started the digs or 'mind games' as a diversion, a wee sideshow to stop the press/fans/punters from beginning to analyze united and adding to the pressure they are under at this stage of the season.

but who knows the guy is a very successful manager maybe this is part of his strategy that keeps him winning??

last pot to p1ss in for ferguson this season seeing they are out of everything else

Let me get this right, Viera is saying Utd are desperate for bringing back the best player of his generation who has been a revelation whilst at the same time city bring back a player they bombed out.

If viera is fishing he needs better bait.

Mind games can work and they have been used by various individuals in a variety of sports.

If you read the actual article ( I know, I know ) Vieira never uses the word desperate he said "it ( bringing Scholes back into the squad )shows a little bit of weakness" .... it seems like Ferguson has interpreted the comment differently,  to suit his own typically childish agenda - I suppose its worked for him in the past.

Interesting he passingly mentions Mancini 'having a dig' as well, as I'm not aware of what he's referring to. Mancini does not tend resort to these kind of classless tactics in my experience .... if anything he's too direct and honest for his own good most of the time.

I give up.

Mourinho fergie et al just pay heed to these things for no reason.

Perhaps people would be more comfortable calling it media management/image management/communication managment rather than 'mind games'. If it makes you feel like you've escaped sky's mind control then bully you. But it is obvious these things play part otherwise..I repeat....the number of top managers that pay heed to these things would be much much smaller.

You think Jose calls wenger a voyeur for boredom?! Because he actually believes it??! Get a grip lads.

Alot of the top managers are basically top psychologists, and the media and the use of these 'mind games'is another tool to get a message over to either their players or opponents..or even players opponents are due to play.

Just amazed so few can see it. Clear as day

But Roy, you're basically suggesting that everything Ferguson says, he says for a reason... therefore, he never vents frustration i.e. bites on something said to him.

Football is emotional - SAF is emotional, and the suggestion that everything he says has a calculated purpose is, quite frankly, absurd.

Erm where did I say everything??!

Do not put words in my mouth particularly if they are ridiculous.

The truth of the matter is you're far more likely to get 'a bite' or an emotional reaction from  fergie in the immeadiate aftermath of a game when emotions are raw.

A day or two after an article that was hardly the worst in his career and that he's had time to digest and process is highly unlikely to generate anything other than that which fergus wants.

Im not saying every bloody utterance is a calculated mind game but when he's saying something as inflamatory as this, knowing how the media works, its going to be a very calculated response.

I think you're missing the point, Roy.

You are trying to make out that you're amazed 'people can't see' what Ferguson is doing.

How about they just have a different opinion to you? His comments today, to me as a neutral, suggested that he was annoyed by what Vieira had said. You don't agree? Fine... but your posts so far are suggesting that his comments can only possibly be calculated.

With respect Jason, you either can't read or have a learning difficulty. My position could not be clearer. You seem incapable of identifying my position so im miffed at what you are disagreeing with.

"you are a cretin"
"engage what grey matter you do have."
"you either can't read or have a learning difficulty"

lol R0y, were u on the debating team at school?

Dont think this one will come down to mind games in the end.
City have looked Champions all season to me.
Im on and still expect to collect.

Have to agree with roy here

If you watch the interview fergie is relaxed, joking but when the time comes delivers a retort which has clearly been thought out.

For me an interesting dynamic is that city have got viera to do their dirty work where as fergie confronts them head on. I would expect phase two to involve a direct dig at mancini in the hope he bites.

Obviously a rafa style breakdown is unlikely but fergie can hope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaZYhTd2BU

I believe I can fly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16FdJrrAWSo

There is a psychological impact to what certain managers say and it is used as a tactic.

But for everyone to think Ferguson is some kind of genius at it when 90% of his mind games consists of "team x won't try very hard when they play their upcoming game against out rivals for the title" is pretty embarrassing.

Ferguson himself also seems to have bought into the myth but it's hardly Proust is it?

I think the pressure has switched from Mancini to Ferguson now. All of a sudden ManU have something to lose, they were four points clear and looking good for the title, then it shrank to one point. United were hot favourites, now, not so much. All the pressure is on United now - City are the underdogs - United are expected to win the title.

fair point about that wretched little toad tevez though...spent months playing golf in argentina
while his team-mates got on with the job in hand...mancini stated he would never play for the club again
if mancini had any class he should of kept his word..its worth nothing.

There is no pressure.
Who gives a fk in this day and age what Faewrgie says???
It`s what happens on the park that counts.

Its rich of fergie to think that teams only try against utd when the reverse is true. Weaker sides write off visits to OT. Some managers have even fielded weakened teams keeping players fresh for more winnable games

RoyKeane replies with a post that says nothing at all... what a surprise.

Try offering a credible point Roy, that way you might avoid being mocked - by freddiek of all people... things must be bad.

mocked - by freddiek

Impossible.

high_lander
24 Mar 12 13:36
Joined:
11 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 1,978 | Blogger: high_lander's blog
I think the pressure has switched from Mancini to Ferguson now. All of a sudden ManU have something to lose, they were four points clear and looking good for the title, then it shrank to one point. United were hot favourites, now, not so much. All the pressure is on United now - City are the underdogs - United are expected to win the title.

Are you sure sir?

Lets agree to disagree. Given where we've come from in this race a 7 point gap, and the fact we still have to go to city, who by the way have won every home game I certainly think there is more pressure on city than utd...especially when you start to factor in the fixture list on paper.

The pressure is on city to remain within striking distance before they host us. There is no question about that as the great man would say.

fergie  decision to recall schole  from retirement  was a master stroke  ,he did notwant to lose the guy as he  has been best mid man for 20 years .mancini appears to live in a bubble  ?  is he real or  alien   ,bringing back his  unwanted player the worst decision in  many years ,bubble will burst long  before he  notches up 25  years at city  ,  mind game champion undefeated remains with SAF .

team not firing on all cylinders but alex gets by with a little help from his friends






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Manchester United 1 (Hernandez 49)

Newcastle United 1 (Ba 63pen)

the mind games stuff is media hype to fill the week on ssn etc

fergie got better of rivals more times than not because of his management of players and standard and experience of those individuals

agree mindgames is bullsheight, although got to agree with the majority here, Everyday the obviously pro United red tops dig some old ex United player out who says "City will bottle it ", "United been here before" etc etc but as soon as a player or ex player from City says the slightest thing there is a press conference called and red snout has to get his "im the boss" comments out in his media, i found it all so amusing seeing an old man who has been there and done it so many times bite like fook

ROykeane, to answer your question, yes I am sure! I think the pressure has switched from City to United, the reason being that United now have it all to lose. I think I am vindicated by United's very unimpressive result against Fulham at home. United huffed and puffed around the box, but there was none of their usual incisive passing, I also noticed many shots that went astray from United and I feel sure this comes from a collective tension among the players.

This doesn't mean I think United will fail to win the title, it is what it is, United are the ones carrying the burden of expectation now, but whether they can carry it and still get the required results is the real question. I for one think United will win the title, although I want it on record that I believe this is weakest EPL that I can ever remember.

I have no doubt that Fergie tries to get under the skin of the opposition -- what I do doubt is the effectiveness of it in regards to the title race.

As I posted before, these "mind games" apparently work on Wenger, yet some years his team has won the double or gone unbeaten for a season. The difference? Better players. The rest is, quite literally, all talk.

The pressure stems from the prize at stake, not as a result of playground tit-for-tat. The best players are those who can handle that pressure and play to their potential.

Just because arsenal have better players that year and cope with any extra pressure applied does not mean that 'mind games' are ineffective.

These top end managers deal in fine margins at times and if its adds or is that 1% edge they will do it.

I have still to have anyone explain to me why the likes of fergie and mourinho bother with it if its so insignificant. Nothing better to be doing?

.................For sportsmen or women who want to be champions, the mind can be as important, if not more important, than any other part of the body. Nothing had changed physically about me in that period. There was no rational reason why a mistake should cause a collapse in form. It was the mind that did it. I was distracted.

Now think about the implication of that on a team. A collection of strong-minded individuals who have learned how to dismiss mistakes, disappointments and problems in their personal life make up a strong team. If the majority of the team have that then, as a unit, you are almost impossible to beat.

The two best teams I faced in my career were Juventus (1996-1999) and Arsenal (1997-2000). It isn’t so much the individual flair and skill that stands out, it’s the mental toughness. Think of the characters: Angelo Peruzzi, Ciro Ferrara, Paolo Montero, Antonio Conte, Zinedine Zidane, Didier Deschamps, Alessandro Del Piero; David Seaman, Nigel Winterburn, Martin Keown, Tony Adams, Emmanuel Petit, Patrick Vieira, Dennis Bergkamp.

You knew you would never break them mentally. If you have a core of characters like that, you win titles. You can carry one or two weaker individuals in a champion team, as I was carried in 2000, but not four or five.

And now we are at the stage of the season when we’re coming down to the sprint finish for the title and invariably the media will try to stoke up the issue of mind games. It is a phrase that annoys me. Mind games? This isn’t a game we’re talking about. People make it sound like hopscotch or an amusing sideline to the title race to entertain people. This isn’t a sideshow, this can be the main event. The mind can be the decisive factor in determining who wins the title. So stop using the phrase ‘mind games’, stop trivialising it.

We can all cite examples of teams losing their collective nerve, but let’s dwell on one because Rafa Benitez was saying this week that he didn’t think mind games were important in the title race.

I remember watching the press conference he was referring to, that infamous list of ‘facts’ he repeated, citing apparent favouritism shown towards Sir Alex Ferguson and United. We were in a head-to-head race with Liverpool for the title and, as I watched it, my first thought was: ‘That’s good for us. And that’s not good for you’. It wasn’t that we thought: ‘Rafa’s cracking up’. That would be crass. But he had created a hullabaloo and turned a minor issue into a major talking point. He had shown a **** in his armour. And if Benitez had allowed himself to become distracted, we knew some of his team would follow because the manager is the representative of the team, never more so than in press conferences.

Arsene Wenger once said the most important message he delivers to his team is not in his team-talks. It is in the two-minute sound bite he gives to television after the game. You’re not telling me Sir Alex doesn’t plan every headline he creates. He knows at this stage of the season, the pre- and post-match press conference are vital in terms of preparing the mind of his team and, yes, affecting the mind of the opponents.

After Benitez’s press conference, every headline, every media question, even the fans’ chanting would be dominated by the debate about whether he was feeling the pressure. And some of the players would start to believe he was and take their lead from that. Whether it was true or not doesn’t matter. I can guarantee you that if a footballer hears or reads something 100 times, a large percentage of them will start to believe it.


A coach once told me there are four factors that determine a players’ performance: his tactical awareness, his physical condition, his technical ability and his mental strength. Which is the only one that is variable at this stage of the season? Physically, the work has been done long ago to prepare you for this moment; technically, your ability is set in stone by now; and tactics, you can tweak a bit but you won’t make dramatic changes.

The one factor that is volatile is the mind of a player. And when does the mind start to play tricks on you? When you’re under pressure. And for footballers, that means in April and May.

It is true that injuries, refereeing decisions and sheer luck can play their part. But you can’t control those. What you can control, if you know how, is the mind. Every pundit, journalist, player or coach who is asked about Manchester United’s title chances will say something like: ‘They have the experience. They have the “know-how”. They’ve been there before’.


What they mean is they are relentless in hunting down titles and they have a manager and players with a collective mental strength to avoid distractions and overcome obstacles. Because there are signs that City are not as comfortable as they were a few weeks ago. Roberto Mancini missed the press conference after the draw at Stoke and he was critical of Mario Balotelli before and after the draw with Sunderland, which saw the striker arguing with his own team-mates. Are these the tell-tale signs that the pressure is beginning to affect them?

Mancini spoken about this issue a few months ago. He used an Italian phrase: ‘Avere il braccino,’ the arm becomes short, which is his way of saying the mind starts to play tricks on the body. ‘This is my worry for Manchester City,’ he said. Mancini knows all this. He has won three Serie A titles. And he also knows the title race isn’t over yet. But if his players are to win, they now have to demonstrate some extraordinary mental toughness.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2123328/Titles-won-head-st...

(the defence rests our honour)

So the most important thing is to have mentally strong players (who are also good at the game) who, by nature, can cope with the expectation of winning. Such players render "mind games" irrelevant and win titles anyway.

Keep the eye on the ball at the end of the day freddie innit.

Vieira is a tool at the very end of the day.

Not sure that follows. You'd say Gary Nev is mentally strong yet he details a 9 month spiral in his mental game.

Long to short the point im making, and have always made is if it had no impact, or minimal impact the mourinhos and the fergie's just would not bother.

Yet to hear a counter argument to that.

It may not be enough to swing a title, but it may give your side a better chance. Edges. The end.

WHEN FERGIE SPEAKS THERE IS ALWAYS AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE

LIKE EARLIER IN THE SEASON WHEN HE SLAUGHTERED A LINESMAN BUT MADE A POINT OF ABSOLVING HOWARD WEBB OF ANY BLAME - HE KNOWS THERE ARE REFS HE CAN INTIMIDATE/INFLUENCE BY CRITICISM AND OTHERS A KINDLY WORD IS MORE THE WAY TO GO

Howard didnt take the bait.

If you honestly believe mancini has been telling patrick vieria what to say in interviews then you're deluded beyond belief. I'd like to think roberto mancini and the majority of the city players have more self respect to pour through the UK tabloids in the same manner that gary neville obviously does.   I know united fans worship Alex Ferguson and rightfully so but get a grip.

Louie,

more pertinently if you think sir alex actually believes city have programmed vieira to make these comments and he's not said that to antagonise you've missed what he's all about.

Long to short the point im making, and have always made is if it had no impact, or minimal impact the mourinhos and the fergie's just would not bother.


How about this for a counter argument:

Who says they do bother? It's not as if Ferguson says 'I'm going to use mind games now'.

The very use of 'mind games' is just yours and the media's perception of what he is saying - do you know for a fact that there is an ulterior motive behind his comments?

You’re not telling me Sir Alex doesn’t plan every headline he creates. He knows at this stage of the season, the pre- and post-match press conference are vital in terms of preparing the mind of his team and, yes, affecting the mind of the opponents.

^Gary Neville for one.


Anyone with common sense for another.

So maybe he says one or two things to try and wind someone up. Maybe he doesn't.

Thing is, some people have convinced themselves that there's an ulterior motive for everything that he says, and it's far from a fact.

You can spin most comments to mean that they have an ulterior motive, but ultimately, as I said, it's just your perception of it.

Not once have I said everything he says is planned, yet you keep inserting that strange concept.

Something like the response to vieira which he knows fine well the media will be all over like a rash is obviously planned and premeditated to drive any agenda that best serves utd at that time.

Its so obvious im embarrassed to be in this 'debate'

Funny you should say that - where did I accuse you of it? I said some people.

I totally disagree with your point. There's nothing to say that Ferguson's response wasn't a genuine response to something that Vieira said, with no ulterior motive.

Unless you know something that I don't?

Who needs mind-games when u get such assistance??

THE WAY LEE MASON SHAT IT FROM LEAVING THE FIELD AT HALF TIME COS HE COULD SEE HUGHES WAITING FOR HIM SHOWS YOU EXACTLY THE TYPE OF REF SIR FERGIE KNOWS HE CAN MANIPULATE

it seems Mancini is playing mind games of his own..