4th Test - England v South Africa at Old Trafford

Rain moved to 3pm tomorrow so plenty of time for a result either way.

666666666666666666666666666 DOWN THE GROUND SHE GOES

Roland-Jones back into the attack. South Africa will target him again

its their easiest avenue to runs

dropped chance? went back like a rocket

Price below 5

Some of you lot must have horror books..THX to Hash my screen has been TRANSFORMED.......I've Just GREENED

Big Hefty Lays of Eng 1.1 - 1.05 is what did it!      its a HOUDINI!

£11 profit here now from £600 loss 3 hours ago :D

SA only about 70 cents above their starting price pre-game

a bit of bat there on snicko

or ultraedge

OUT

4 Down

collapso from amla and the game is done

OFF YA POP

Aug 7, 2017 -- 4:14PM, Cardinal Scott wrote:

Big Hefty Lays of Eng 1.1 - 1.05 is what did it!

no bat involved

That's good from Wilson. Saw the gap and overruled Ultra Edge.

De Kock carnage? Time to back SA like men..

going back in again. Plessis well in

If I had DELAYED my GREENING by about 180 seconds I WAS BURIED!

jesus was an absolute pie aswell, why didnt amla want to win

Cronje moment

Aug 7, 2017 -- 4:21PM, LendUsAFiver wrote:

Cronje moment

Did you spot my reply from last night (11pm ish)? Was it your theory or am I thinking of someone else?

I'll never forget that vintage knock by Hash who already is one of my fave bats.    All Down To Him my Houdini!

I'm out of this for good but this game is not dead yet.  QDK has that XFactor!

50 up for FAF. Well Played

OFF YA GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

5 DOWN

its going to be all over by tonight guys

bloody hope so ECE

What an outstanding grab by Cook. He stayed down so well.

6 DOWN

calling all tuk tuks to old trafford

Moeen top wicket taker in the series.

will be man of the series injera and he deserves it

Hales double at Derby. I reckon he'll be in Eng's middle order soon..

is Derby county a part of London?

div 2 runs, especially v derby, count for feck all really (or certainly should do)

no ECE, midlands

128 miles north of London

Like to see Faf Nail his Ton as he too along with Hash extracted me.

ok

england rarely go back to a player they've tried before unless your name is gary ballance

I'm for Halesy being given another go. 

250 runs and 23 wickets and counting in a 4 match series. can't be many better all round performances ever

if you say a wicket's worth 25 runs would be like a batsman getting 800 runs

Aug 7, 2017 -- 4:44PM, Cardinal Scott wrote:

I'm for Halesy being given another go. 

based on what?

moeen has had a great series mafe with both bat & ball

finally getting credit for his talents as well which is good to see

Incredible mafe. And his runs often come at a tempo that changes the game.

As for Hales, looking ahead to Australia, the batting lineup is quite a mess. Why was Mo dropped to 8 and JB to 7 to accomodate a debutant in Malan?

I'm all for Hales batting at 8.

Aug 7, 2017 -- 4:54PM, wondersobright wrote:

Aug  7, 2017 --  4:44PM, Cardinal Scott wrote:I'm for Halesy being given another go. based on what?

If you look at his time as opener he was acting against his nature, he wasn't aggressive.  If Halesy comes back in middle order type against an old ball he will probably play his natural aggressive game.

hales batting at 8 is a different ball game, thought you were suggesting a swap for jennings

neither the jennings or hales experiment has worked

ali often steps up and gets you runs or wickets at a time of need too

only thing is do we need another shot maker in the lower middle order??

we need solid players who can see off the new ball at the start of the innings so that the platform is not 50/3

I think they'll give Stoneman a go and stick with Westley at 3 unless Bayliss can get his way for Root to bat there.

Westley's dismisals are a worry. Amazing how county cricket fails to expose these flaws.

With JB, Stokes and Mo all able to bat in the top 7 there's a free hit at 8 with Hales or A.N. Other. It's an incredible luxury. Woakes could come in for TRJ and the batting gets even better.

haven't seen a lot of stoneman to comment but a change must be made for jennings

personally I would give westley time and he deserves the WI series to showcase his skills

woakes is an automatic pick when fit, 1 of the 1st names on the team sheet for me

cook
stoneman
root
westley
bairstow
stokes
moeen
hales
woakes
broad
anderson

not a bad team woakes 9 is an insult btw

sevennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

SA 200 runs or more matched at odds of 1.01 in danger

Love it how wickets tumble after a partnership. Goes to show how hard batting is.

Some team you've got there wonders!! So many quicks to choose from too. TRJ, Ball, Wood.. Still like Plunkers, especially on Aussie pitches..

toby was amazing at the oval but has been expensive and generally quite ineffective this test
even his amla wicket was with the rankest ball amla will ever get out to

AB needs to look in the mirror, going on twitter with  "Let's get behind @faf1307 and the boys. "

Been a very poor series this!

I've enjoyed it

jimbob again

Despite today I'm well in loss over the 4, that has probably coloured my view.

root has to bat 3 while we have seemingly no other players capable of batting in the top 3. bayliss should tell him he must do it

bairstow far too low at 7 too. he's one of our top 3 bats and could easily have been stranded on 60 not out on saturday

at the moment our batting doesn't really start until 6. incredible we're still pretty successful with doubts over 3 of the top 6 for 3 years now. does show how incredibly strong we are from 4 to 9

Maharaj has seen his stock rise!

Aug 7, 2017 -- 5:30PM, Cardinal Scott wrote:

Despite today I'm well in loss over the 4, that has probably coloured my view.

fair enough

what would your 11 be mafe/anyone else assuming all players fit??

the best batsman in any test match side should take the number 3 spot. Root should bat at 3

163-3 to 201-9

all over in treble quick time

the rankings are a farce. this is a poor south african side certainly as far as their batting goes. big 100 stand here and still only creep past 200

cook
hameed
root
westley
bairstow
stokes
buttler
moeen
woakes
broad
anderson

don't care that hameed has hardly got a run this season. county form doesn't seem to matter much given the hopeless efforts of the likes of ballance and jennings. looked class in india. would give him the 3 windies tests which should be fairly gentle to find some form. buttler's too good just to play 1 day cricket. tell him to just smash. been playing too carefully in recent outings for the test side

Bring on the Windies!......superficially looks like a complete & utter mismatch that.  Hoping Eng rest players to make it slightly more competitive.

england 3-0 will be scraping odds against at best unless there is some diabolical weather around for 1 of the tests (possible given the time of year)

I'd prefer to see runs from hameed and then I'd gladly have him back in

but on the back of dire form for lancs, not for me right now

Windies always get 3 tests against Eng which is a disgrace. They dont deserve it.

Aug 7, 2017 -- 5:31PM, Cardinal Scott wrote:

Maharaj has seen his stock rise!

He was very good, I thought.

Hameed is 77 not out overnight,following on from a century in his last match(albeit in a 2nd xi match)

Benefitted hugely from his time in club cricket here a few years ago.

I would have Hameed and Butler in too!

I'd like to have an extended look at Roland. We don't need Westley but he has been decent for me.

Looks to be raining from 11.30am today in Manchester. What could have been....

Which is why i am really pissed at SA batting this series. They couldnt even survive 4 day games.

overs bowled in this series

lord's 335
trent bridge 297
the oval 319
old trafford 313

Expect even less in the next series.

England will almost certainly bat longer than against SA but WI batting will get blown away incessantly, I suspect.

could see a 2 day game if west indies bat first especially in the floodlit game. at one stage a 2 day finish looked possible against australia in 2015

england beat WI inside 2 days at headingley (late 90s/early 2000s) when england were weaker than they are now and the WI decline had started to set in (though they still had lara, walsh, ambrose etc)

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a 2 day game in this series, I'd certainly be selling the number of overs bowled in the series

haven't seen any betting but I'd imagine england will be around 1/10 for the series

England to win inside 3 days would be a good bet. Provided weather was clear, happy to take anything on them at around 2/1

you'd have to think there will be several windies totals sub 200 and good chance one in double figures if this bowler friendly weather hangs around

only danger groundsmen will try to make the pitches flatter than in this series to string the matches out as long as possible. not sure will make much difference against a weak batting line up though

I just wondered if anyone agrees with me that Morne Morkel has possibily cost SA the series?

Ok a bit harsh. The thing usually bowls too short and too wide.

Too wide you can leave.

Too short you can leave but if you don't and he gets it to seam the ball usually goes past the outside edge. What good is that?

SA lost the series on the morning of the 3rd Test at the Oval imho ( obviously they were not as good as England either but suspend that for now ). They bowled too short and too wide ( all of them ) but Morne was Senior pro in chief and should have set the example.

I truly believe they could have skittled England for under 200 or less. England went on to make a match winning score. Cook was the match winner for me as he did not surrender but Stokes was the one who took full advantage.

I honestly thought Morkel should have been dropped after that performance but he got more luck at OT and ended up as top wicket taker so what do I know!

I personally believe that Morkel bottles it and does not pitch it up enough. Can you imagine an Ian Botham bowling short of a length so he does not get hit for cover drives? I don't think so. Ambrose and Walsh were both tall but pitched it full.

It's how he bowls. Like a lot of really tall bowlers, he probably is better pitching it up a bit more but he does then bowl too full and get cover driven a fair bit. I think you're being a bit harsh on him, if not entirely unfair.

Aug 9, 2017 -- 5:04PM, Fatslogger wrote:

It's how he bowls. Like a lot of really tall bowlers, he probably is better pitching it up a bit more but he does then bowl too full and get cover driven a fair bit. I think you're being a bit harsh on him, if not entirely unfair.

Correct. And 'its how he bowls' happens because SA bowlers for the last 7-8 years have worked in partnerships. Phil, Morne and Steyn were a deadly attack. Morne wasn't anywhere near them but did his job well. I think with their coaching setup being the same for so long, they still work on that theory and to be honest, Morkel is a crap bowler if you asked him to take wicekts. He's nowhere near Steyn or Phil. If he wasn't a partnership bowler, theyd have dropped him long time ago. At least that's what I think. I think he or the coach got asked this at some point and the answer was, he helps otehrs take wickets. sadly, the other in this series was the only decent bowler and not fully fit.

Yeah I think you are both right a little. I remember Mike Hendrick. Used to bowl on the spot every ball. On a length, just short maybe, outside off, consistently moving the ball away and going past the edge. I dont think he ever took 5 wickets in an innings for England but was the best and most skillful bowler. The other guys took the wickets!

I thought SA bowled to a plan on the Thursday at the Oval. Somebody whould have worked out the game was for the taking. They just bowled too short and wide particularly to Cook who playted himself in nicely. Only he and Stokes looked comfortable on that wicket.

The fact is the batsmen let SA down but Morkel had the ammunition and conditions to make a difference but he didn't.

bit harsh to put all the blame on morkel. obviously philander not being able to bowl a full allocation was a big factor and rabada and morris were absolutely awful in the first innings at the oval

350 was at least 100 above par in those conditions. sure england would have had the saffers 7 or 8 down on that rain shortened 1st day if they bowled first

yeah true but he is such a good bowler. I guess that is why I was perhaps a bit harsh.

Personally I liked it when somebody hit me through the covers. I felt I could change my pace, angle, width and length and invariably got him and I can tell you nobody hit 150 plus before they proved me right!

Aug 10, 2017 -- 2:39PM, Whisperingdeath wrote:

Personally I liked it when somebody hit me through the covers. I felt I could change my pace, angle, width and length and invariably got him and I can tell you nobody hit 150 plus before they proved me right!

I remember Waqar Younis saying something like I loved when batsmen hit me for a boundary because it filled them confidence and they'd play more freely allowing me to get them with a toe crusher.

I thought you were a batsman WD.

DT

Come on!

I was a batsman, bowler, fielder. One of my nicknames was Straightbat.

I remember a friend telling me a story about a bowler on his side who thought one of the batsmen was vunerable to short bowling outside off stump. He got his man with a short one and yelped I knew I'd get him out there to which my friend replied but he has scored 160!

The thing about Morkel is that you need courage to keep pitching it up afetr being driven to the boundary but that is where you can get wickets.

oh and modesty prohibits me from saying what a good Captain I was!