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Am i alone in considering Tendulkar no better than any of the best batsmen who played in his era?
Certainly no better than Lara, and I could happily argue the case for Ponting, Kallis and Dravid.
Amla and Cook could also easily be considered equivalent on retirement.
His precocious talent and subsequent longevity is remarkable, but it is really these qualities which have allowed him to break so many records.
There is a grace, no doubt, and there is the comparison to bradman in technique, but the worship is undeserved.
He's one of the best in his generation but by no means the exceptional unrivaled talent the adulation would suggest; it's worth noting that his ranking score never broke into the 900s.
Certainly no better than Lara, and I could happily argue the case for Ponting, Kallis and Dravid.
Amla and Cook could also easily be considered equivalent on retirement.
His precocious talent and subsequent longevity is remarkable, but it is really these qualities which have allowed him to break so many records.
There is a grace, no doubt, and there is the comparison to bradman in technique, but the worship is undeserved.
He's one of the best in his generation but by no means the exceptional unrivaled talent the adulation would suggest; it's worth noting that his ranking score never broke into the 900s.
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All time Test Career runs
15,837 (327 innings) Sachin Tendulkar† 1989– 13,378 (287 innings) Ricky Ponting 1995–2012 13,288 (286 innings) Rahul Dravid 1996–2012 13,128 (274 innings) Jacques Kallis† 1995– 11,953 (232 innings) Brian Lara 1990–2006 All Time ODI Career runs 18,426 452 Sachin Tendulkar 1989–2012 13,704 365 Ricky Ponting 1995–2012 13,430 433 Sanath Jayasuriya 1989–2011 11,798 331 Kumar Sangakkara‡ 2000–present 11,739 350 Inzamam ul Haq 1991–2007 gonna take some beating statistically speaking .... |
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i know that, and i stated as much.
but those statistics are largely a function of a incredibly long career. and yes that's impressive, but where his match winning 153 against the rampant australians in Barbados. he didn't feature once when wisden produced their top 100 list in 2001. he may do now if they did it again, but i doubt any of his innings are in the top 50. his 241 in Sydney 2004 was highly impressive to watch, but was it really stand out in a score of 700 on a road with no mcgrath and no warne? |
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and he batted at 4 as well.
he was often hugely protected by dravid. I'm not suggesting he's not one of the greats of this era, and anyone who wants to rank him #1 has a lot of good justification. but he's not undisputed. not by a long stretch. i suppose my gripe is more a reaction to the press and the writing which is coming out and will continue to come out. it's feeding an appetite for hyperbole at the expense of being objective. |
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he didn't feature once when wisden produced their top 100 list in 2001.
Using the same statistical criteria, Wisden named Tendulkar the second best batsman ever (till Dec 2002) in both Tests and ODIs. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/2572069.stm Sport and life is about hyperbole. You see it all the time. I think worship of Christ is undeserved. But, it is what it is. |
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Love to know the average score when he came to the wicket, would expect a lot more pressure on Lara
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At his peak in the late 90's undoubtedly the best one day batsman ever.
I am an impartial cricket fan and I would say he is the greatest cricketer of all time. Carried the Indian team when they were no good, hit centuries for fun and played at the highest level for 24 years. |
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One of the best of all time but how any one can have him in front of Bradman is beyond me, I do concede his record is very hard to comprehend
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using the same statistical criteria, Wisden named Tendulkar the second best batsman ever (till Dec 2002) in both Tests and ODIs.
not quite the same though. weighting was given for longevity and consistency. when comparing similar averages, i think there's a watermark for volume of runs scored after which additional scoring has very little weight on enhancing a player's claim to greatness. (this is of course my opinion and i know others think otherwise) let's say in this case 10,000 runs averaging over 50. after that i think picking out great innings becomes the major deciding factor. |
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would certainly have lara in front of him. better to watch and a greater fear factor for the opposition i would suggest
had the misfortune to enter his peak years just as the great west indies side was beginning to fall apart |
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great on paper, and a joy to watch, probably not my favourite either.
seems churlish to knock him as he announces his retirement it may be a long time until another comes along to take his place |
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his great innings were all in ODIs Dstyle.
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Mostly agree with DStyle. As an England supporter I tended to be more worried about what Lara or Pointing would do to us rather than Tendulkar. That said, to score 100 international centuries is mind boggling. Surely that is one record that will never be beaten. Clearly Tendulkar is a very, very good player but the best batsmen in my lifetime (imho) remains Viv Richards.
Think Cook has a chance of getting to 200 tests, would need to play another 8-9 years given the number of tests England play a year and he'll be 29 in December. |
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Ponting averaged under 45 versus England, Lara (depsite 400* and 375) and Tendulkar just over 50 versus England.
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Ponting averaged under 45 versus England, Lara (depsite 400* and 375) and Tendulkar just over 50 versus England.
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don't see how anyone can argue about Tendulkars International record. 18000 odi runs won't be beaten for an awful long time and his 16000 Test runs, surely will get them emm 163 in 2 Tests against WI, may only get 2 or 3 innings, so maybe not, will also take alot of passing. It may be he was the 2nd best ever International batsmen.
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I agree with you DStyle,
Great player, one of the all time greats but not in my all time X1. I preferred Dravid too. I think Tendulkar's record speaks for itself but I see him as a Master in the ODI arena and certainly the all time great in that form of the game. People have to understand when we make criticism of him we are not berating his record. I do feel " The Wall " was the prized wicket. Maybe carrying an under strength Indian bowling attack in the 90's took it's toll and we didn't appreciate that as much as we have marvelled at the collective Indian batting in the noughties and when they took on and beat Australia. |
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Why is his ODI record being considered separately and of almost secondary importance?
In 17 tests against India, Lara averaged 34.55 runs but doesn't matter because you guys didn't watch those games. While we all have our preferences about whom we would like to watch play, I don't see enough objectivity in the analysis. Donny Osmond has the best comment in this thread: seems churlish to knock him as he announces his retirement. Looks like D in Dstyle stands for denigrating. |
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I think you've misunderstood my post; others have not.
nowhere am i denigrating him. "He's one of the best in his generation" I'm not suggesting he's not one of the greats of this era, and anyone who wants to rank him #1 has a lot of good justification. I'm in the process of trying to gather some stats which i'll put here. But they are based exclusively on test matches. Because that is, for me, the primary arena for a batsman to prove himself in. |
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Fans will always have their own favourite players and their own opinions but it's impossible to accurately compare players from the same era let alone different eras as cricket is a team game. I think just being in the discussion as one of the best cricketers is enough to acknowledge what a superb player he has been.
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Put up the stats of Bradman & you can forget everything or anyone else - I know the alternative arguments about who he played against - tours to India etc etc but I'll offer the comment by Neil Harvey - if he was playing today with the heavier bats and covered pitches he wouldn't average 99.9 but somewhere around 199.9 - he was that good!!
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Don't forget helmets Geordie
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Pointing won plenty and had a great team around him... we can only speak about that with tendulkar just in the past perhaps 5-6 years ever since Dhoni came around as captain and built good teams in all formats. Lara was beautiful to watch I'm sure and he had a great style with his feet movement. Hard to ever pick just one and will be harder in this era to separate the greats from the greatest. There are categories in which perhaps one comes out above the other, dealing with pressure or performing with the bat and captaining a team to plenty of glory.
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Only fitting that one of the most selfish players in cricket history chooses to retire once he reaches 200 tests. Should have retired 18 months ago.
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what a great player, I never care for what happens in the media but on the field he always played in the spirit of the game in a team that isn't known well for always playing within the rules as well as obviously being one of the best batsmen in the world for 2 decades, I don't think there can be any doubt about how good he is/was
I will never forget him banging Brett Lee for 4 on consecutive deliveries when Lee was steaming in bowling 150 clicks an hour, i'm an Aussie at heart but that was admirable stuff, I will also never forget Brett Lee bowling him a beamer which hit him and he was accepting of the apology, once again.. admirable stuff What a pleasure to watch for so long His records will go unbroken simply because when he started playing there was no T20 cricket or any of that and there were more test matches played, now.. you don't see kids debut at the age of 16, combine that with the 3 forms of cricket being played his records in Test Match cricket will go unbroken imo |
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Why do people say his records will never be broken. He didnt play anywhere near as much test cricket in the nineties as ali cook is now. Kallis is already not a million miles from his centuries and runs record. Ali cook is on course. I think they will both fall short, but perhaps not. Kohli already has 16 odi centuries and is only 24.
If hehad played for england he would have played 250 tests and scored 20,000 runs, now that would be out of touch. |
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yep you'd think 14000 runs and 40 hundreds is an absolute given for cook and possibly a lot more as long as he stands up. he could easily go past 200 tests
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My 2c worth is SRT broke sporting records in a country that is hardly a sporting powerhouse. He is personally a class act, but being rich helps in that regard. And he looks like the average Indian on the street. People can identify with him.
IMO, the best cricketer to come out of India in SRT's time is Zaheer Khan. Not because of his record, but because India produces plenty of top class batmen, but hardly any good seamers and ZK was far ahead of anyone else India produced in that period. |
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40 hundreds for Cook LOL
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Zaheer khan in his prime was amazing to watch and the kind of bowler India needed. Shame we never really could appreciate how important a pace bowler is in the team. Indians appreciated good batsmanship and the class bowling of anil kumble. Dont remember Indians ever demanding seam bowlers at least the fans
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cook has 25 hundreds already and is only about halfway through his england career. should plenty of soft ones available this winter at any rate
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Watching Khan and Zaheer against Australia was special and Sharma having the sign over Ponting was too
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Century number 17 for kohli today? Sachin got 49. 3 a year for the next 11 years would then do it. Tendulkars records are remarkable, but defo not j touchable.
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Untouchable
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Standalone as the 2nd best of all time. The comments of his fellow peers tell you all you need to know, that's if his statistics alone don't do it for you! Bradman obviously the best, but Sachin is a clear second. As Warne put it - sachin 1st, daylight second, lara 3rd.
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