Cricket
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Was £560 green on SL from start of play on Day 1 right up until after lunch when Trott/Prior were cruising and no more wickets were in sight.
Was £945 red on England, so bailed out at that point and braced myself for a reduced loss of £450-something if England completed the course.
Ended up with a £72+ loss on SL, which means a £600 swing in my bank.
Some d*** on here will no doubt tell me I should grow some balls and stuck with my original bet, but how do you legislate for that kind of collapse? Not as if they were facing anything special from the SL bowlers. Very ordinary. Wickets given away. Again.
I almost wish that England had won and cost me £450+. Almost. At least it would have justified my decision to lay SL.
It's all down to huge egos and players playing for themselves rather than the game situation. Happening too often now with England. Even Strauss was guilty of that in the 2nd innings, playing such a ridiculous shot because presumably he wanted to get his critics off his back and prove a point. Instead of doing the sensible thing and occupying the crease.
Cricketers like to give the impression that they are intelligent sportsmen compared to, say, footballers. Really? The dangerous thing is, they THINK they are bright. And that's worse than being plain thick. At least you know where you stand with a dummy defender who inexplicably handled a cross and concedes a last minute pen.
Jermaine Defonebox (in the match thread) is spot on about Swann. It's not what he does that is the be all and end all (you can't argue with hsi stats in recent years), it's what he doesn't do. Like show patience with the bat. It's crap to say of him and other bowlers that 'it's not his' job to get England over the line. He's wearing the bloody shirt and therefore his job (and that of every other player) is to do their best for England and play in an appropriate way at any given time in the game. If Swann has to help dig the batsmen out of a hole, then so be it. There have been enough occasions in the past year when others have had to make up for his struggle to take wickets against right-handers. With no doosra in his armoury, it amazes me that he takes as many wickets as he does. A lot of it, no doubt, down to the erosion of batting standards at test level brought about by T20 bashes.
Ditto Pietersen, the ultimate ego. How many more times will he give his wicket away at a crucial stage, shrug his shoulders afterwards and glibly say: 'That's the way I play'. Well, for once in your life, don't F-ing play that way, mate, cos we need you to apply some selfless brain to the situation. But the media psycophants will simply say: 'Ah, but that's good old KP for you - always very positive'.
OK, Prior did well for a period in trying to pull off a miracle today. But then what fdoes he go and do? Got himself out needlessly, when all he had to do was stay there and continue to drain the life out of SL. Thick, see.
Now that feels better!
Was £945 red on England, so bailed out at that point and braced myself for a reduced loss of £450-something if England completed the course.
Ended up with a £72+ loss on SL, which means a £600 swing in my bank.
Some d*** on here will no doubt tell me I should grow some balls and stuck with my original bet, but how do you legislate for that kind of collapse? Not as if they were facing anything special from the SL bowlers. Very ordinary. Wickets given away. Again.
I almost wish that England had won and cost me £450+. Almost. At least it would have justified my decision to lay SL.
It's all down to huge egos and players playing for themselves rather than the game situation. Happening too often now with England. Even Strauss was guilty of that in the 2nd innings, playing such a ridiculous shot because presumably he wanted to get his critics off his back and prove a point. Instead of doing the sensible thing and occupying the crease.
Cricketers like to give the impression that they are intelligent sportsmen compared to, say, footballers. Really? The dangerous thing is, they THINK they are bright. And that's worse than being plain thick. At least you know where you stand with a dummy defender who inexplicably handled a cross and concedes a last minute pen.
Jermaine Defonebox (in the match thread) is spot on about Swann. It's not what he does that is the be all and end all (you can't argue with hsi stats in recent years), it's what he doesn't do. Like show patience with the bat. It's crap to say of him and other bowlers that 'it's not his' job to get England over the line. He's wearing the bloody shirt and therefore his job (and that of every other player) is to do their best for England and play in an appropriate way at any given time in the game. If Swann has to help dig the batsmen out of a hole, then so be it. There have been enough occasions in the past year when others have had to make up for his struggle to take wickets against right-handers. With no doosra in his armoury, it amazes me that he takes as many wickets as he does. A lot of it, no doubt, down to the erosion of batting standards at test level brought about by T20 bashes.
Ditto Pietersen, the ultimate ego. How many more times will he give his wicket away at a crucial stage, shrug his shoulders afterwards and glibly say: 'That's the way I play'. Well, for once in your life, don't F-ing play that way, mate, cos we need you to apply some selfless brain to the situation. But the media psycophants will simply say: 'Ah, but that's good old KP for you - always very positive'.
OK, Prior did well for a period in trying to pull off a miracle today. But then what fdoes he go and do? Got himself out needlessly, when all he had to do was stay there and continue to drain the life out of SL. Thick, see.
Now that feels better!
Show More
done a very similar thing myself mate, donkeyed off 90% of my green on the closing stages looking to trade england.
these things happen though from time to time, 6/31
But i agree with you that England gifted Sri Lanka far too many crucial wickets, England could and should have turned the screw on Sri Lanka a few times in that run chase but allowed them back into the game with a gift right at the crucial time when they should be stepping on their throats and taking ownership of the match. Not good enough really from the "number 1 test side" in the world
these things happen though from time to time, 6/31
But i agree with you that England gifted Sri Lanka far too many crucial wickets, England could and should have turned the screw on Sri Lanka a few times in that run chase but allowed them back into the game with a gift right at the crucial time when they should be stepping on their throats and taking ownership of the match. Not good enough really from the "number 1 test side" in the world
I agree. Historically they were not supposed to score 340 batting fourth ...... but actually the pitch was playing like a day two or three track, and the opposition bowlers were hardly more threatening than a county attack. Not saying it was an easy task, but if they can adapt themselves to the circumstance, it was eminently do-able. Some argue that Prior was unlucky, but why were any of our batsmen deliberately hitting the ball in the air ? If you look at it from the SL point of view .... they were at a loss to know how they could get a wicket if England stopped hitting cross-batted. Batting coach should take responsibility. This was a worse debacle than against Pakistan, because Pakistan had a class spinner who bowled us out. This game has just been thrown away by a stubborn refusal to accept their flaws.
STOP HITTING PRE-MEDITATED CROSS BATTED SLOGS.
STOP CALLING IT A SWEEP.
STOP HITTING PRE-MEDITATED CROSS BATTED SLOGS.
STOP CALLING IT A SWEEP.
In truth, you could also argue a strong case that Trott could have actually done a bit more to have helped England get even closer to the target.
Before people shout me down, there were plenty of opportunities for him to have played more relativelty risk-free shots against very ordinary SL bowling and a pitch that was giving them very little help. As spassky rightly points out, there was no Ajmal to terrorise them this time.
But there were times when Trott, who was comfortably in and past his 100, shouold have taken more of the strike and relieved the preassure on Patel soon after SP came in. OK, so it's tiring in that heat and humidity, but he was hardly tearing up and down the track running quick singles. Yet Trott wasn't even looking to take a run off the last ball of the over to allow Patel more time to settle.
Before people shout me down, there were plenty of opportunities for him to have played more relativelty risk-free shots against very ordinary SL bowling and a pitch that was giving them very little help. As spassky rightly points out, there was no Ajmal to terrorise them this time.
But there were times when Trott, who was comfortably in and past his 100, shouold have taken more of the strike and relieved the preassure on Patel soon after SP came in. OK, so it's tiring in that heat and humidity, but he was hardly tearing up and down the track running quick singles. Yet Trott wasn't even looking to take a run off the last ball of the over to allow Patel more time to settle.
Thanx plech.
I think swann is king of the egos shockingly arrogant talks down to everyone including his team mates A few of his team mates DO have a problem with the guy
And I know many will disagree but he's a wildly over rated most wickets are tail enders and like I said his fitness is non existent
I think swann is king of the egos shockingly arrogant talks down to everyone including his team mates A few of his team mates DO have a problem with the guy
And I know many will disagree but he's a wildly over rated most wickets are tail enders and like I said his fitness is non existent
I think it's a bit harsh to single out Swann for his batting when his job is to take wickets and he took 6 of them, and to single out Trotter who scored a ton.
Patel, KP, and Strauss would be top of my list. Maybe even Broad for assisting SL in adding 40 or 50 for their 10th wicket in the 2nd dig. With less to chase SL may have less men around the ball which may have saved Prior and Trott.
As for the 600 pound swing on your account, if you had such a big red that was bothering you why did you not back England when KP or Bell got out today? Or when England were around the $8-$10 mark on day 2? Tests are far more enjoyable when you green up on day 2 or 3 imo.
Patel, KP, and Strauss would be top of my list. Maybe even Broad for assisting SL in adding 40 or 50 for their 10th wicket in the 2nd dig. With less to chase SL may have less men around the ball which may have saved Prior and Trott.
As for the 600 pound swing on your account, if you had such a big red that was bothering you why did you not back England when KP or Bell got out today? Or when England were around the $8-$10 mark on day 2? Tests are far more enjoyable when you green up on day 2 or 3 imo.
Pastie - there you go, right on cue, the 'it's not Swann's job' excuse. His, and every other player's, job is to do what is best for their TEAM.
As for backing England, I did when they slumped to 15.00, to reduce my overall losses. But when KP and Bell gave their wickets away I thought (wrongly) that SL would take the rest of the wickets quicker than they did, so I let it ride longer than I should have done. I mean, did you see the loss of 4 wickets for 33, or whatever it was, coming at that stage, with Trott and Prior well set?
I awoke this morning with the intention of laying some of my green on SL if they failed to take a quick wicket. Then KP going early on gave me a false sense of security.
Hindsight: ain't it wonderful.
As for backing England, I did when they slumped to 15.00, to reduce my overall losses. But when KP and Bell gave their wickets away I thought (wrongly) that SL would take the rest of the wickets quicker than they did, so I let it ride longer than I should have done. I mean, did you see the loss of 4 wickets for 33, or whatever it was, coming at that stage, with Trott and Prior well set?
I awoke this morning with the intention of laying some of my green on SL if they failed to take a quick wicket. Then KP going early on gave me a false sense of security.
Hindsight: ain't it wonderful.
Yeah. I kind of agree with you regarding Swann and the rest of England's tail. I was talking to a guy at work today and was saying how England's tail are great when England are 350 odd for 6 against tired bowlers. Swann and Broad have a swing and quickly add 60 or 70 and make it look easy. When England REALLY need them to dig in and make 10 or 20 they're nowhere to be seen.
However, England's batsmen - all of the top 7 apart from Bell in the first dig, and most of them apart from Trott in the 2nd have to shoulder the responsibility for not scoring enough runs. Take Bell out from the 1st innings and the rest of the top 7 scored just 50 between them against ok bowling on a flattish deck. England's 8, 9, 10 and 11 contributed more with the bat than the top 4 in the first innings, and then did their best to dig the batsmen out of the hole they created. Take Trott out of the 2nd innings and they only contributed 134. Whilst it's great when a tailender has a swing and bangs a quick 30 or 40, it's not going to win you many test matches.
As for hindsight you're right. However, England can normally find a way to lose from almost any winable position. I didn't see England go above $10 over the first 3 days though.
However, England's batsmen - all of the top 7 apart from Bell in the first dig, and most of them apart from Trott in the 2nd have to shoulder the responsibility for not scoring enough runs. Take Bell out from the 1st innings and the rest of the top 7 scored just 50 between them against ok bowling on a flattish deck. England's 8, 9, 10 and 11 contributed more with the bat than the top 4 in the first innings, and then did their best to dig the batsmen out of the hole they created. Take Trott out of the 2nd innings and they only contributed 134. Whilst it's great when a tailender has a swing and bangs a quick 30 or 40, it's not going to win you many test matches.
As for hindsight you're right. However, England can normally find a way to lose from almost any winable position. I didn't see England go above $10 over the first 3 days though.
Did Swann and Broad not score crucial runs in the 1st innings here?
For those that trade, do you look to trade the momentum and have lots of trades per day. Or is it more a case of you take a position then wait a while for this position to develop so to speak ?
Sudoko_Junior: No, I don't like repeatedly trading throughout the game, trying to nick a few quid here and there as the price moves 10-20pts. Prefer to stick with my convictions from an early stage on Day One. Might start with a stake of around £100-200 and then pile on some more when the team I'm on take what looks a seemingly controllable position.
For example, I backed SL at 3.60 just before the start on Day 1 and again when they went as low as 1.32 on day 2. Most of my stakes (approx £700-800) went on at odds of between 1.25 and 1.37 in a short space of time on Day 2. I then let it ride until having to move again on Day 4.
I backed SL throughout at average odds of 1.49.
It's a bit annoying when the team you fancied from the word go ends up winning and it costs you £72 to see them do it!
Still, I of course accept, like we all do, that this is the nature of the beast and move on.
For example, I backed SL at 3.60 just before the start on Day 1 and again when they went as low as 1.32 on day 2. Most of my stakes (approx £700-800) went on at odds of between 1.25 and 1.37 in a short space of time on Day 2. I then let it ride until having to move again on Day 4.
I backed SL throughout at average odds of 1.49.
It's a bit annoying when the team you fancied from the word go ends up winning and it costs you £72 to see them do it!
Still, I of course accept, like we all do, that this is the nature of the beast and move on.
Ahh ok. I was considering taking a red today, But ultimately decided against it. I suppose it was justified today as i got the outcome i was looking for but there have been other occasions where it hasn't happened like that!
I was in quite heavily on SL at 1.3 at the end of their second innings. Ive learnt a lot today. I was just curious as to weather people looked to get in and out quick but lots of trades or take a position and stick to it.
Cheers, SJ
I was in quite heavily on SL at 1.3 at the end of their second innings. Ive learnt a lot today. I was just curious as to weather people looked to get in and out quick but lots of trades or take a position and stick to it.
Cheers, SJ
exactly plechy - very frustrating when your heavily backing Sri lanka all the way and then caught on the wrong side of an epic collapse, but it does happen.
but imo its best to take all emotion out of trading, when you say "I almost wish that England had won and cost me £450+. Almost." this is crazy talk - i mean trading is ALL about the money, nothing else, also from your post above you seem to be seething rather a lot, best just to take it on the chin and take a lesson from it and move on, every £1 better off you are the better, crazy stuff to wish for adverse results just to reassure you that your judgement was right imo, we all make mistakes - just put it down as another experience and keep trading - you'll get your money back another day if you keep your discipline and your emotions in tact imo
but imo its best to take all emotion out of trading, when you say "I almost wish that England had won and cost me £450+. Almost." this is crazy talk - i mean trading is ALL about the money, nothing else, also from your post above you seem to be seething rather a lot, best just to take it on the chin and take a lesson from it and move on, every £1 better off you are the better, crazy stuff to wish for adverse results just to reassure you that your judgement was right imo, we all make mistakes - just put it down as another experience and keep trading - you'll get your money back another day if you keep your discipline and your emotions in tact imo
Sudoko_Junior: To be honest, I was on the verge of laying some of my SL green after the first 2 overs this morning, having seen that the pitch had no new demons in it and that Trott & KP still looked solid first up. But, just as I went to hit the lay button, KP got out, so I was saved . . . for the time being anyway.
Luck and timing are intrinsically linked. But then gambling just mirrors life itself.
Luck and timing are intrinsically linked. But then gambling just mirrors life itself.
Chelsea_blue: You are absolutely right. I overreacted, and it was just a frustrated irrational rant in the heat of the moment, borne out of tiredness too. I'm not a morning person, so the 5.30 starts take some getting used to and I only got four horus kip last night due to a late work stint and the start of play, which I obviously couldn't afford to miss.
As you say, swings and slides!
As you say, swings and slides!
good stuff mate, yep exactly - I was very disappointed with england too, losing 6/31 at the end there just horrible stuff , and certainly share your frustration having backed sri lanka mostly in this game and blowing my profits on the final day, but crickets a dangerous game to trade aswell and today proved it, luckily got out with small green and when you look back at it you'll be grateful to get out with small red - some people would have done their nuts on this - from odds on to all out in about 30 mins
hope to see you on the match thread for the second test, should be a cracker, take it easy
, and certainly share your frustration having backed sri lanka mostly in this game and blowing my profits on the final day, but crickets a dangerous game to trade aswell and today proved it, luckily got out with small green and when you look back at it you'll be grateful to get out with small red - some people would have done their nuts on this - from odds on to all out in about 30 mins hope to see you on the match thread for the second test, should be a cracker, take it easy
Yep, enjoyed the chat. I don't tend to get involved in match threads in-play (computer upstairs, telly downstairs, Betfair mobile by my side on the sofa) until the post-mortem is carried out at the end.
GL.
GL.
Have you not considered that Swann playing that way might be down to a sort of 'expected value of runs scored' calculation. A reason some batsmen play aggressively (match situation aside) is because they could have worked out that while they will of course likely get out quicker playing that way, they may well on average score more runs before they do.
A good example is Suresh Raina back during the English summer. Funnily enough it was Swann had him on a string in the Test series... and he made a load of low scores from a high number of balls (including a 29 ball duck!) from just trying to defend. However as soon as the ODis came around and he played aggressively.. he was a lot more effective...
I'm not saying that batsmen can't sometimes be impatient, but I can't help but think back to the 2nd test in the Pakistan series in Abu Dhabi. England were criticised for playing too defensively/back to the spin when chasing a small total - now they're being lambasted for the opposite! Granted you could say that was against higher quality spin bowling and I realise there's a happy medium between defence and attack, but sometimes you have to accept that sometimes you will lose whatever tactics you employ!
A good example is Suresh Raina back during the English summer. Funnily enough it was Swann had him on a string in the Test series... and he made a load of low scores from a high number of balls (including a 29 ball duck!) from just trying to defend. However as soon as the ODis came around and he played aggressively.. he was a lot more effective...
I'm not saying that batsmen can't sometimes be impatient, but I can't help but think back to the 2nd test in the Pakistan series in Abu Dhabi. England were criticised for playing too defensively/back to the spin when chasing a small total - now they're being lambasted for the opposite! Granted you could say that was against higher quality spin bowling and I realise there's a happy medium between defence and attack, but sometimes you have to accept that sometimes you will lose whatever tactics you employ!
munkeyhorn - fair comment and I take your point re. Raina in particular. Perhaps I shouldn't have singled out Swann so much here, but his aproach typified where England went wrong today.
I don't think Swann (or Pietersen, for that matter) think about their approach to batting too deeply - and that#s the problem. If you are playing in Tests at the highest level against one of the top sides, you surely need to show that you can adapt to the match situation and what is required at any given time.
But with Swann, Pietersen and others at times (Stauss, shockingly, in the 2nd innings), there seems an arrogant disregard for England's overall requirements. There are other players from other countries who think the same way. It's as if they know they won't be dropped whatever the result.
Another example of the modern 'me' celebrity culture of self-indulgence and the need for instant self-gratification.
I don't think Swann (or Pietersen, for that matter) think about their approach to batting too deeply - and that#s the problem. If you are playing in Tests at the highest level against one of the top sides, you surely need to show that you can adapt to the match situation and what is required at any given time.
But with Swann, Pietersen and others at times (Stauss, shockingly, in the 2nd innings), there seems an arrogant disregard for England's overall requirements. There are other players from other countries who think the same way. It's as if they know they won't be dropped whatever the result.
Another example of the modern 'me' celebrity culture of self-indulgence and the need for instant self-gratification.
90 runs req 6 wickets in hand and 4 and half sessions,well what is wrong with 90 singles at a run an over.It may be simplifying things but those catches though well caught should never have been enabled.Swann came out swinging and seemed to think he could whack all their spinners out of the attack.
Agree. Think saffers and probably India would have chased down 340 on that track. Might have taken em 4 sessions but so be it.
Good piece in the Independent relating to the above discussion:
.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/james-lawton-its-time-flower-told-schoolboy-swann-and-his-classmate-broad-to-grow-up-7594989.html
.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/james-lawton-its-time-flower-told-schoolboy-swann-and-his-classmate-broad-to-grow-up-7594989.html
I completely agree with the above article, never liked swann at all tbh - does seem to be an arrogant sod, and find the whole twitter culture they have developed a bit unprofessional and cringeworthy really.
Good read from asparagus
I actually don't mind broad but he is changing for the worse Swanns attempt at claiming a run out is typical. He has no competition for the England spin role Monty nearest challenger says it all
I'm a photographer not of cricket but no a couple of people in the sport circle and they all say swanns attitude stinks the dressing room out
Swann makes KP seem a modest man I'd put him on a treadmill for a few weeks get some of that blubber offvcan barely run
I actually don't mind broad but he is changing for the worse Swanns attempt at claiming a run out is typical. He has no competition for the England spin role Monty nearest challenger says it all
I'm a photographer not of cricket but no a couple of people in the sport circle and they all say swanns attitude stinks the dressing room out
Swann makes KP seem a modest man I'd put him on a treadmill for a few weeks get some of that blubber offvcan barely run
And of course how can anyone like a man who got of a pis sed driving charge just cause he had the cash
Graeme Swann: Darren Gough punched me on tour in South Africa ...
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Graeme-Swann-Darren-Gough-punched-tour-Sout...
10 Oct 2011 – England spinner Graeme Swann has revealed he was once floored by a single punch by former pace man Darren Gough. Swann was on his ...
Another good read my mate told me the rest of the squad were buying goughie drinks to thank him lol
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Graeme-Swann-Darren-Gough-punched-tour-Sout...
10 Oct 2011 – England spinner Graeme Swann has revealed he was once floored by a single punch by former pace man Darren Gough. Swann was on his ...
Another good read my mate told me the rest of the squad were buying goughie drinks to thank him lol
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539