kelly holmes improved 7 secs over 1 year in the 800 m

hormones innit

that's dame kelly to you...

Didn't even know she was doing competitive athletics in 1992. Amazing what you learn on here.

pretty sure she wasn't a full time athlete back then. she was still in the army i think

Correct, elisjohn seems to have some agenda against the Brits even though it was the USA who really raised the question over Ye

no agenda against brits see my post, im just showing that massive improvements can be made, really trying to defend the chinease girl, doesnt matter really what standard of athletics it is , just proving that 7 secs improvement is easily done.

1992 vauxhall meeting gateshead k holmes finished 6th under 23 2min 05 .97
1993 wchamps stuttgart  1min 58 .64

there's no point just picking random races

put up a whole list of times so it shows the progression or don't bother

Gateshead, ffs.  small meet at a slow track, and who doesn't peak at a World Championship?  try and compare like with like

I'm sure you could make a case out of her association with Mutola, but at least try and make some sensible points.

By that logic if I run 30 seconds faster tomorrow than I did today then I must have been on the juice. Context is everything. 2.05 is average for a womans 800 metres and even 1.58 is nowhere near world record level. Ergo big improvements are normal.

What isn't normal is for someone to do that to a field at the end of a world championship event and swimming even quicker on the last lap than the best of the men.

It certainly raises eyebrows.

all im trying to show in that 1 year there was 7 secs progression, therefore im certain a 16 year old can progress 5 secs from 14

That would depend what her performance was at 14 and in which event.

Of copurse where she comes from is also a factor.

there is a delicious irony of Americans accusing people of cheating though

Also true.

Seems a bit odd to compare different events/sports and say that if someone progresses 7 seconds in one, then 5 in the other is ok

Exactly, it's all about context.  Can you keep all your ramblings to one thread elis?

Not quite sure what your point is?

Improving your best while you are already world class is very different from improving a few seconds when you are not.

You also have to look at reasons why someone might improve that much in a year. If someone wasn't training much at all, then started to take it seriously, then you would expect their improvement to be massive. You cant just look at times and compare like for like.

I improved 13 seconds in one year over 800m from age 11 to age 12, what has that got to do with Kelly Holmes improvement in her 20s, or some chinese swimmer. Answer: absolutely nothing.

You can't compare performances, unless they are like for like.

fingirl , to start with im not having a go at kelly, i just produced one example of how much athletes can improve in a short time, so this chinease girl improving 5 secs i believe in 2 years , and especially between the ages of 14 to 16 isnt as dramatic as a lot of people are saying. but you improving 13 secs was mainly due to age, and im sure you were even quicker at 15/16 werent you,  same with this chinease girl improving with age and training imo, and not drugs.

she has gone 5 seconds faster in London iirc

went 3 seconds faster than PB in the semi final

then another 2 seconds in the final itself

(no comment, just saying)