Vino added with 1k to go, surely that cant be right??

Filth from betfair, filth from the commentators, filth from the peloton, filth from team GB... a great race messed up royally but the winner of the biggest filth of the day has to go to Cancellara. Was his for the taking but hope he is OK, in tears at the end there...

There were only 28 riders in the first group, so difficult to add them all?

there wasnt any price for any unquoted

total ****, they will probably void all uran and vino bets bets. That is the only fair thing to do

Everyone new all the runners 2 days ago and they hadn't changed, it isn't that hard for betfair to look on the net and just put all the runners in the market to start with, simple........ but then we are dealing with bf

got to void the race

That's a disgrace have to feel for the backers, betting in a market without the winner in it.

others will be added on request, lol

nearly a skinner for the layers ,

betfair will get their 40%

not like vino is a rank outsider - didnt he win the silver in beijing?

p1ss poor

Betfair really just don't know cycling, they should just put up every rider on each race, instead of this. Disgrace to the backers, especially when the breakaway was already formed, vino was always gonna be one of the favorites to win.

i got him at 2.2 with 500m left. they ain't paid out yet...

Some of the rowing events, table tennis etc events have started and betfair haven't put them in running. It could be really confusing and costly, it just isn't good enough.

I spent ages searching for him over the last 10k and couldn't make it out. Stopped looking before he was added. ridiculous situation.

I can't even find "Tennis" in the list of sports

poor service from betunfair yet again.

Oh, nevermind, just seen their post where they decided to not list it in the right place for reasons I don't even understand.

now settled

so bad to not have him  in the marked from the start, and then suddenly  add him in the end.  a new SCANDAL  this things.....  I was searching fro him many times  didnt find him

Plenty to wine about here

wasnt aware of all the racers...just picked 1 for some interest

Like  my situation,  i was laying  cavendish   , then u shall win on all the other options,   SO HOW can they suddenly ADD a new man  in the end??  cant understand this. a new mistake from betafir

surely you cant add runners once the race has started, if you have not listed them all you have to include  the *field* as well, dont know if they did include the *field* in the market

They specifically said they didn't include field and others would be added on request.

There wasn't actually a new man added to the race Drallis, only to the market.

there was no any u/q and for that they should void

ace, it was clearly stated in the rules. Lesson learned for the future should be to read them.

Drallis, your lay gets you green on everyone, on the screen or not on the screen. If you lay someone in a "next manager" market, you're green on everyone else in the world, not just the ones listed by betfair as contenders. It's the same thing.

there was no any u/q...they beleieved all was on t he list..they messed up..why should we ay for their negligience

They didn't believe everyone was on the list at all, they said that if you wanted someone added then they would. You didn't bother to ask for Vin. to be added, so they didn't add him.

Now, if you have a problem with that, suggest you email them rather than try to get advice on here, as you've had the situation explained to you.
If you want the rules changing for the future, then suggest it to them, and if enough want the same thing and would like the market to run slow as turd, then they'll probably go with that. Although likelihood is you're in the minority.

void

who thinks they should void

wiggins was not on the list irrelevant he couldnt win he still should have been on list ,all competitors should be ,if not
there should be any unquoted imvho.

Only the people who didn't read the rules, and a few chancers who lost.

Just to warn you now, the same rules are in force tomorrow.



As 'Any Other' is NOT quoted, non-featured selections may be added to this market on request. Once 'Any Other' is listed no further selections will be added.

so you'd have all 7 billion people in the world listed in next manager markets casemoney?

lets hope in the 100 metres race they have all the competitors listed

no good putting 1 guy in with 1.5 secs to go

They don't ace.

Read the rules

and then saying betfair is in the right

rant over

can his ban not be mentioned ?

Lori, I think on this occasion BF did attempt to list all runners which is unusual for a cycling market. The market rules are just the usual rules. There were 50+ riders who would literally had no chance whatsoever and would never normally have been listed. Maybe they have somebody doing olympic markets as opposed to whoever usually does the cycling markets.

its a real mess

the right thing has to be done

justice for the small folk

my 2 bob must be restored

Lori I accept your point about reading and understanding the rules, however it is unacceptable that up until the last 2 mins you could not back the winner of the race. If that is not unfair then I don't know what is. It was pointless being a backer unless you traded.

what action do u think will be taken

FWIW I don't want to claim that it was acceptable, it was ridiculous, just people whining that they want a refund is not really goint to achieve anything when Betfair have technically acted within their rules.

Whining about the increasingly awful service that Betfair provides however seems a far more justifiable way to go about it IMO.

thyell probably give a £2 voucher for the casino

and GB, that's interesting. Oddly that makes things worse not better as it gives the impression of a complete list (as opposed to some other markets where it clearly isn't and so no real confusion)

well theyve taken my money from me

did u clean up trading lori

Nope, was doing the golf until the last 15km or so. Won a few pence but nothing of note. Certainly missed the decent lays that others managed to get a hold of.

I laid Cav and the second in, didnt even know the winner was missing, but that was irrelevant as far as I was concerned, I knew I had "the field" on my side. So ridiculous to suggest voiding my bets.

If what lori states is correct that betfair knew not everyone was not on the list then can i ask how many other entrants were excluded from the market. If the winner was the only one not listed then its a nonesense to suggest betfair decided to list the entire field bar one cyclist.

I bet in running with one of the high street books and they had any other listed so fair enough as they only had about 30 cyclists listed.
But Betfair obviously made a mistake in not listing the winner. I assume they listed everyone else. Anyone who did a straight bet could not have won as they had no opportunity to back the winner.
Lori says betfair didn't believe everyone was on the list at all. Thats a ridiculous statement as it means they knew the eventual winner was never included in their market until the end. By definaition it means they deliberately decided to list all the cyclists except one.

The rule saying you can ask for other cyclists to be included was clearly not correct in this case. It is a general rule when its normal to exclude many cyclist from the list and Betfair make a decision on which cyclists to include. Here they simply forgot to list one.

We created the Men’s Olympics Cycling Road Race market on 20th July from the official London 2012 website, which at that point did not show Alexandre Vinokourov as a listed competitor. The market remained ‘incomplete’ allowing us to add any further runners on request. We did not receive any requests for Vinokourov to be added, but when it became apparent that he was in a two-man breakaway group towards the latter stages of the race, we added him into the market (approximately 5km from the finish).

When oh when will Betfair ever admit they fecked up. An appalling company. They should pay winning bets and refund losing bets and learn their lesson. Every company in the world pays when they feck up except Betfair. Shocking

Have you seen there response? "We took the riders from the official list eight days ago"!! Did they not think the list might change?? Do riders not pull out in the last few days?? Why on earth, BF, did you not recheck the runners list much nearer to the off?? Eight days!! That's just inept, unacceptable and poor. Do you want a decent data manager? I'm free. Give me a call

But it was not a case of they never intended to list everyone on the list as suggested. They clearly did intend to list everyone.

The BF rules state non featured selections may be added to this market on request ... however ... no BF user requested Vino be added. As BF have not adhered to the rules, the market should, even at this settled stage, be voided.

agreed

Excellent point. It must be voided.

If you layed the field pre race, does that mean you would be quids in?

yep

'We did not receive any requests to add him to the market'

If you had asked for him to be added,say 20k from the finish ,the answer would have been foxtrot oscar.

I asked for someone to be added to a manager market some years ago,that is the response I received.

I've never been turned down when asking to add people to markets, although It's not something I do particularly often, just a handful.

On the one hand it is claimed that Betfair knew that they had not completed the full list of cyclists but then decided to add him eventhough no request had been made to do so. Their own actions and wording of their statement give the indication they made a mistake by not including the eventual winner on their list and then tried to rectify when the race was near over.

Why did they feel they needed to add the eventual winner to their list if as it is suggested they clearly never intended to include all the cyclists and no request had been made to do so.
Their actions indicate that the general rule they are going by was not intended for this specific situation.

They could at least have said sorry for making a mistake. The full list was there for them this morning, but they failed to complete the market. It's not a pick and choose your likely runners (a la TdF mountain stage) market, it's the Olympics. Everyone should have been included as a default, but Betfair won't even admit their error. Not good.

I'm not giving this one up

Irrelevant now I know,and nothing came of it,but in a later stage of the TDF,the stage where Wiggins was in front with 500m to go(he was actually leading out Eddy BH),Wiggins wasn't in the market either.

thieves

they took everyones money by not allowing the winner to be backed from the off disgraceful

take it to IBAS you will have a case. You can't have a sports betting market without the winner being listed.

They say you can ask them to add runners but it's pointless as when you email them they take an absolute age to get back to you so. I hate having to contact them because they are so slow to reply.

im looking into it we shouldnt let this go..

They are adhering to their rules right or wrong, like the next managers market. But it was a pathetic effort and maybe they should pay out those who backed the 2nd before the winner was added out of their own pockets, as these people are the only ones who have a case as far as I can see. I laid Cavendish and Greipel and had the rest running for me, why should my bets be voided ?

It seems thy have not learned any lessons whatsoever from the Voler La Vadette episode. No humility.
They messed up. Their mistake. They have to take the hit

Been away for a couple of days so missed all the fun yesterday but can't believe what i'm reading this morning....seems as if the majority on here has never bet on a cycling race before.

BF's cycling rules have never changed....it has always been to add a runner on request. You all had 5 hours 45 minutes and 57 secs to request Vino.

So if I layed Cavendish pre-race just because Vino wasn't there my bet should be void !!!  yeahhh...whatever.

some interesting points on here and all well and good for people to say read the rules...

but this is an in running event and all competitors should be quoted...its fair to say on a mountain stage cavendish wouldn't be quoted but this is the olympics and anything can happen with crashes etc...

lori you say you only picked the race up with 15km to go(answer me one question did you look at the rules at this point?)...that is the whole point really, lots of people would of done that themselves and is the reason for quoting all runners for those that are just picking up the race late on...but think it is wrong that people are betting on a market without vinokourov and then just to add him late which i have to say i didn't see...

I have to say i didn't wager apart from taking a few pounds from friends on cavendish which is always nice but was watching the market but was confused as couldn't find vino...but if i had wagered on the columbian i would feel hard done by as i couldn't get out on vino in the run...

no matter how you cut with the money traded on the event this is a major **** up by the person working on the market

Yes, in other cycling events is normal to not have a complete list of runners butin these instances there are many cyclists not listed in the market by intention. The intention yesterday was not the same. Are people saying it was intended not to list just one cyclist. Its clear they just missed him out by mistake.

Its also clear from their own statement they did not adher to their own rules as they said no one requested the eventual winner to be added to the market yet they added him themselves. Why did they do this if it was always their intention to miss out cyclists from the list and no one had requested he be added.

ClayDavis
Joined: 07 Sep 10 | Topic/replies: 3,017 | Blogger: ClayDavis's blog
It seems thy have not learned any lessons whatsoever from the Voler La Vadette episode. No humility.
They messed up. Their mistake. They have to take the hit

Clay makes an excellent point.  Bets were voided in the above race as it was obvious there was a problem with the In Play market and how it was subsequently traded.  On yesterday's road race at the time of the suspend the runner-up was available at 5.2 back/5.5 lay and the last price matched on Vino (who was added far later than BF claim) was 2.5.  For me the integrity of the market as a whole is fundamentally questionable.

Several people have made the point that BF take an eternity to add runners to markets so the despite the rules tab basically covering all eventualities the rules on this market were grossly unfair to users.

The last price matched on Vino certainly wasnt 2.5, The first price matched was 2.5, my bet was matched at 1.8 and he only got shorter. Last price matched was somewhere between 1.1 and 1.4 I think.

Has anyone actually contacted IBAS about this?

I think the fact that Vino was the only runner not listed actually makes this a decent case, because they clearly havent followed their normally procedures here and saying that it is up to people to phone up and request other runners clearly isnt appropriate in this case.

^ You were saying:

Traded and Available
Price To back To lay Traded
1.10      £69
1.40   £666   
1.50   £50 £38

1.80      £21
1.98      £21
2.00      £1,569
2.10      £250
2.12      £61
2.14      £4
2.20      £2,151
2.22      £291
2.50      £2,588 Betting on:   Alexandre VinokourovRigoberto Uran UranLars Ytting BakElia VivianiGustav LarssonLars BoomAlejandro Valverde BelmonteTejay Van GarderenSylvain ChavanelArnaud DemareJakob FuglsangSacha ModoloTaylor PhinneyAlexander KristoffEdvald Boasson HagenVincenzo NibaliLuca PaoliniLuis Leon Sanchez GilSergio Luis Henao MontoyaMatthew Harley GossRobert GesinkMichael AlbasiniGreg Van AvermaetDenis MenchovPhilippe GilbertTom BoonenRui Alberto Faria Da CostaJack BauerNicolas RocheTyler FarrarStuart O GradyMatti BreschelCadel EvansAlexandr KolobnevLars Petter NordhaugJohn DegenkolbMichael RogersTimothy DugganJanez BrajkovicSimon GerransAndriy GrivkoDavid MillarJurgen RoelandtsNiki TerpstraFrancisco Jose Ventoso AlberdiLieuwe WestraJose Joaquin Rojas GilAndre GreipelRyder HesjedalYauheni HutarovichSergey LagutinMichael ScharFumiyuki BeppuChristopher HornerRoman KreuzigerDaryl ImpeyJonathan CastroviejoDaniel MartinPeter SaganGreg HendersonTony GallopinSamuel Sanchez GonzalezBernhard EiselGregory RastNicki SorensenMichal KwiatkowskiMaximiliano Ariel RichezeBorut BozicThor HushovdMurilo Antonio FischerSebastian LangeveldRobert KiserlovskiIan StannardAhmet AkdylekArnold AlcoleaAndrey Amador BakkazakovaDanail Andonov PetrovYukiya ArashiroGediminas BagdonasJan BartaOleg BerdosMaciej BodnarGrega BoleMickael BourgainFabian CancellaraManuel Antonio Leal CardosoMark CavendishTarik ChaoufiJuan CotumbaDan CravenFabio Andres Duarte ArevaloMartin ElmigerChristopher FroomeGonzalo GarridoTomas Aurelio Gil MartinezDaniel GirmazionMichal GolasBert GrabschBayron Guama De La CruzSpas GyurovAlireza HaghiMuradjan HalmuratovOmar HasaninVladimir IsaichevAdil JelloulMirac KalGabor KasaVasil KiryienkaDmytro KrivtsovKemal KucukbayAzzadine LagabMouhcine LahsainiKrisztian LovassyRene MandriTony MartinDavid MccannGiorgi NadiradzeRamunas NavardauskasMagno Prado NazaretAndrei NechitaGregory PanizoMuhamad Adiq Husainie OthmanSung Baek ParkMarco PinottiManuel Rodas OchoaJackson RodriguezRadoslav RoginaAmir RusliBranislau SamoilauNelson Santos Simoes OliveiraAleksejs SaramotinsAndy SchleckDaniel SchornMarcel SiebergMehdi SohrabiJorge Soto PereraIvan StevicIoannis TamouridisMatteo TrentinMiguel Ubeto AponteStijn VandenberghJussi VeikkanenHector Hugo Zamarron RangelAmir Zargari 
Total matched on this event:  £1,023,631
Betting summary - Volume:  £7,063 
Last price matched:  2.50

That isnt right because I had some waiting to be matched at less than 2 at suspend.

This just shows what a fecking farce it was

Any other runner in the women's

Why dont they just add "The Field" as a runner and it would sort this rubbish out

amateurish imho

I was running up and down the odds for the last 5k and vinoukorov was not quoted until inside the final k.....I thought there had been a mistake in pronunciation ......ridiculous coverage , both by the tv stations and betfair.....very amateurish .

i certainly wont be placing any more olympic bets with this amatuer crew..thief fair

imagine taking bets on a race that excluded the winner..imagine this in the grand national or the 100ms

we all lost our money because nobody was able to back the winner.until 2 mins to go...disgraceful...contact the bcc..th local newspapers we mustnt let this go

everyone has to contact the ibas...

its our job to oversee that they provide a professional service...such bs..thats why they employ and pay people....

Jul 29, 2012 -- 12:40PM, the_ace10 wrote:

we all lost our money because nobody was able to back the winner.until 2 mins to go...disgraceful...contact the bcc..th local newspapers we mustnt let this go

While I appreciate your frustration, if you thought Vino was going to win and couldn't see him, you thought oh I'll back someone else instead?

the_ace10...this is a betting exchange

There are backers and layers.

Layers did not not lose yesterday (unless they layed Vino in the last couple of Km's).

If you wanted to back Vino yesterday you should have either contacted Betfair or gone to a bookie offering odds on him.

Vino???? unfortunately is a very well known and popular rider,struggling to believe no one asked for him to be added to the market.

.