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PorcupineorPineapple
15 Jun 20 12:33
Joined:
Date Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 11,792 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
Boris Johnson on March 12: "There is no medical reason to ban such events" (eg Cheltenham) as the "the scientific advice is this has little effect on the spread."

Matt Hancock on March 16: "The risks of transmission at mass gatherings, such as sporting events, are relatively low"

Johnson on June 13: "Coronavirus thrives on mass gatherings. You should only meet up with others outside in groups of no more than 6, keeping 2 metres apart. "




They are quite literally making it up as they go along.
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Report Makybe_Diva June 15, 2020 12:37 PM BST
Yep.
Report macarony June 15, 2020 12:41 PM BST
Protests should be allowed but only in a set area like a park this marching through the streets just encouraging trouble
Report Makybe_Diva June 15, 2020 12:44 PM BST
I don’t think protests should be allowed at all, anywhere. While we still can’t have social gatherings of more than six people.
Report saddo June 15, 2020 1:42 PM BST
Is it surprising they are making it up, really? If there was a handbook on these things I'm sure they'd use it.
Report Baphornet June 15, 2020 1:59 PM BST
aye, as if the Labour ants would do anything differently. So much for unity in a time of crisis
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- June 15, 2020 2:05 PM BST
There was a hand book of sorts from all the trial runs and exercises

The tories chucked it away.

Late into lockdown

Late out of lockdown

60k dead, because of lack of preparation and a clown intent on speeding up the spread
By infesting his family and workmates through sheer bloody minded stupidity.

Nobody could have done worse, well, maybe a toss up with trump.
Report lapsy pa June 15, 2020 2:12 PM BST
Hello Bap,unity? no unity in the tory party,threw out who won't play the spiv game,there was never going to be a cross party with erg /brexit heads.
Mish mash now of shouldn't really be opening up as r levels are over 1 in places,level 4 pandemic warning which they dropped as doesn't suit their agenda of getting people out as the economy on it's knees.

Way to go yet on this how not to do it handbook.
Report Baphornet June 15, 2020 2:24 PM BST
i'm no fan of Bozo, Lapsy but considering we have never been through anything like this before, there is no basis or proof that any other Party would have behaved or governed differently. We can all stand our corner but that's the way it is. I could sit here & say Labour would have governed far worse than the Tories have, but i can't because they have no record of doing so. As for unity, let's not forget the behaviour in the House during Brexit, that left a very bad taste in the mouth & has no doubt festered. All Parties should have come together, & all are to blame that they haven't
Report casemoney June 15, 2020 2:28 PM BST
Would be Very few Deaths if Steptoe and Abbot had been at the Helm , Dreadful shame most of the country thought they were not capable of running a bath back in December ...
Report casemoney June 15, 2020 2:30 PM BST
London should have been Locked down early March it was not , there were Mobbed tubes and intercity Trains and Flight Leaving hourly

What could possibly go wrong ??
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- June 15, 2020 2:30 PM BST
Starting to go wrong here?, or before




Minutes reveal decisions made in 5 March SAGE meeting do not seem to fully reflect the science also set out in the same minutes.

This was the first meeting #DominicCummings attended.

Could this hint at the behaviourists “nudging” past the science in order to push #HerdImmunity?
Report saddo June 15, 2020 2:31 PM BST
60k dead? We'll never know. German figures are low because no death was put down to covid unless the entire medical team involved said covid was the cause of death. Our GPs have been giving out covid death certificates over the phone. How can you possibly compare between the two?
Report lapsy pa June 15, 2020 2:31 PM BST
Labour besides Starmer are a weak party imo,would they have gone the herd immunity route? I so doubt it, the 2 quotes in the opening post shows their(tory) position then,criminal and is the direct result of what is/has happened.
Report casemoney June 15, 2020 2:34 PM BST
If they Didnt Lock London Down it made no difference what they Done FFs ,Tubes were still mobbed mid to late March ??

Masses flying into airports ........Then on their way all over the country ... GAME OVER
Report casemoney June 15, 2020 2:36 PM BST
The ONS SCOTLAND FIGURES ARE WORSE THAN ENGLAND OVER 4000 gone with CO VID mentioned on the certificate and they had 3 weeks on LONDON ..
Report Angoose June 15, 2020 2:47 PM BST
That 4,000 gives a figure of approx. 733 per million of population.
The equivalent figures in England are 43,322, approx. 770 per million of population.

For all excess deaths since the onset of COVID, Scotland has 4,808 which is approx. 881 per million of population.
Equivalent figures in England are 55,816, approx. 992 per million of population.

Shocking figures in both countries.
Report macarony June 15, 2020 2:53 PM BST
Goose there over 70 million in the UK not 54 million
Report casemoney June 15, 2020 2:53 PM BST
Where are you getting 55,000 From that has to be all the UK not just England
Report casemoney June 15, 2020 2:56 PM BST
Coronavirus UPDATES: UK hospital deaths rise by 32 with no fatalities in Scotland or NI Shocked
Report Angoose June 15, 2020 2:57 PM BST
Those figures come from the ONS publicly available data.
I have also used ONS 4 country population estimates as of mid 2019.
Report Angoose June 15, 2020 2:58 PM BST
ONS has England at 56.29M, Scotland 5.46M, Wales 3.15M, Northern Ireland 1.89M, UK Total 66.79M
Report macarony June 15, 2020 2:59 PM BST
Of course this all irrelevant because anyone with half a brain knows this virus as killed very few people without an underlying illness
Report Angoose June 15, 2020 2:59 PM BST
worldometer has a current UK total of 67.87M but has no breakdown by home nation.
Report macarony June 15, 2020 3:03 PM BST
So fairly safe to say we can had another 25% to those figures taking the total over 70 million
Report Angoose June 15, 2020 3:04 PM BST
Based on what ?
Report macarony June 15, 2020 3:17 PM BST
Illegal immigration outdated data
Political manipulation
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 15, 2020 3:27 PM BST

Jun 15, 2020 -- 2:24PM, Baphornet wrote:


i'm no fan of Bozo, Lapsy but considering we have never been through anything like this before, there is no basis or proof that any other Party would have behaved or governed differently. We can all stand our corner but that's the way it is. I could sit here & say Labour would have governed far worse than the Tories have, but i can't because they have no record of doing so. As for unity, let's not forget the behaviour in the House during Brexit, that left a very bad taste in the mouth & has no doubt festered. All Parties should have come together, & all are to blame that they haven't


Constantly bamboozled by this line of argument. Firstly, there's plenty of evidence that if another tory - Stewart - had been elected leader then we'd have a different outcome. But it's just beyond specious. There'll never be any way of proving therefore please stop trying to do him down.

Sorry but no. The tories won, and with a huge majority. They're in complete control and frankly there's no point in opposition parties even turning up to vote for the next few years. The only thing we can do is review what actually happened, what decisions were actually made by the actual government.

And as my opening post shows they are now simply changing policy to suit. When most people in the country - at the time - were saying it was foolish to have Cheltenham open or allow plane-fulls of potentially infected fans from a virus hotspot to hop over, visit our bars and hotels and spread it far and wide before a CL game, the answer by the government was that the science said it was fine.
Now that there are people protesting police brutality and racial bias they're saying that that same science was wrong and apparently crowds are great for spreading the disease.

We need a full inquiry to get to the bottom of what data they used and how it informed government decisions given how we've ended up with the most deaths, one of the longest lockdowns and the projected worst financial hit out of every country in Europe. I mean, if we took the finanical knock to save lives, that's one thing. Or if we said the economy must survive and people need to fend for themselves then that's another. But to somehow manage to both kill people and trash the economy at the same time, then that's frankly negligence and we need to explore it and learn all the necessary lessons.

Report Baphornet June 15, 2020 3:35 PM BST
there is absolutely zero "evidence" that Stewart would have done anything different to Bozo. Pure speculation, & completely endorses what i said. He can posture all he likes away from power; but when it came to the crunch he would do exactly as the powers that be wanted
no wonder you're "bamboozled"Crazy
Report Baphornet June 15, 2020 3:38 PM BST
jeez; Rory Stewart in power, what a most frightening thought. It would of course have insured a Labour government far earlier than is going to be the caseWink
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 15, 2020 3:43 PM BST

Jun 15, 2020 -- 3:35PM, Baphornet wrote:


there is absolutely zero "evidence" that Stewart would have done anything different to Bozo. Pure speculation, & completely endorses what i said. He can posture all he likes away from power; but when it came to the crunch he would do exactly as the powers that be wantedno wonder you're "bamboozled"


So your best argument is that others "may" have been as weak as Johnson was when push comes to shove?


That's it?


So you happily accept the mixed messages, the changing instructions, the awful management that has killed thousands and is causing financial ruin, but in your cloud everyone else would have done the same (I mean just look at all the other countries struggling as badly as us!) so that makes it ok?

Report Baphornet June 15, 2020 3:48 PM BST
so your argument to my posts about Labour doing nothing different, is to quote another Tory being in power would have been different? Show me the proof
i'm not defending the government, i never have
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 15, 2020 4:19 PM BST
You brought Labour into it, not me. Just the usual throwing dust up in the air. A completely irrelevant argument.

I mean, if you've got actual evidence would have done the same thing then let's see it.
Report saddo June 15, 2020 4:45 PM BST
Where is your 'actual evidence' that anyone else would have done better? You have none.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- June 15, 2020 4:46 PM BST
It's all around the world.
Report Baphornet June 15, 2020 4:53 PM BST
Laugh talking of "irrelevant arguments" Rory Stewart?Laugh No sorry, you brought him into it so as i said - you prove it! I've already said i can't prove what Labour would have done; or did you conveniently miss my points?

I brought Labour into it yes, & i stand by what i said; which you haven't been able to refute, because err you can't. So you continue to snipe about the government, with no evidence that anyone else would have done any better (including King Rory) it's what you do best, whimper splutter whimper diddums. You have no argument, that's my point, all hypothetical nonsense just to attack the Tories
Report saddo June 15, 2020 4:54 PM BST
It's only been four years baph, give em time.
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 15, 2020 5:00 PM BST

Jun 15, 2020 -- 4:45PM, saddo wrote:


Where is your 'actual evidence' that anyone else would have done better? You have none.


Granted there's no "actual" evidence. It was meant to be a throwaway line before the main thrust about how that bit is immaterial as it's impossible to prove. Needless to say, certain posters latch on to that rather than focus on the main point of the actual performance by the actual government.


Bap - it's not for me to refute, it's for you to prove. That's how arguments work. The idea that anyone else would have done anything better or not is moot. It's unproveable. As you're so ably pointing out there'll always be some sealionning whopper along to say something. This is all about what did happen, not what might have happened if my auntie had balls.

You mention hypothetical, yet you're the one wallowing in it, desperately trying to deflect from your demi-god's utter failure in a crisis.


So if you do think Labour would have done different, either provide the proof or run away. Your choice.

Report Baphornet June 15, 2020 5:10 PM BST
there you go again my "demi god" when i've already said on here & in a myriad of other topics i am no fan of Bozo. Trying to points score when the opposite is there for all to see

WTHF are you going about? Are you insane? I've made my point about Labour, so you prove yours about Stewart, you said you there is "plenty of evidence" Go on prove it!!!!. And just to add, the day i run away from a nonentity like you my toes will be turned up
Report Shrewd_dude June 15, 2020 5:13 PM BST
Porcupine what are your thoughts on how the Scottish goverment has performed?
Report Baphornet June 15, 2020 5:15 PM BST
jeez don't "bamboozle" him anymore. I've already called for the white coats
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 15, 2020 5:30 PM BST
What point have you made? You said Labour wouldn't have done any diffetent but have stuck nothing up behind it.

If your point was just ephemeral then fair enough. If so, maybe leave debating to the grown ups.
Report Baphornet June 15, 2020 6:04 PM BST
you can't debate, so god knows that your age is. Have you forgotten about your Rory Stewart comment? I've repeated it often enough. In regards to Labour what kind of numpty wants me to prove something i've already said on here i can't - it's there for all to see, & ignore my comments. Is that your idea of debate? just me proving something i've already said i can't, & you ignoring me asking for proof in regards to King Rory, even though you're the one who said you have "evidence" You made that statement to try & carry your argument against Bozo, yet you don't want me to mention it because it can't be proven? Then you ask me to prove it? Nice debate! What about your assertion that i think of Bozo as a "demi-god" No reply from you to my answer to that. Nice debate! I said earlier that i've not defended the government, no reply from you. Nice debate! Let's face it, you don't know what debate means, not unless it's all in your court & no one can disagree. Methinks you're totally embarrassed by your Rory Stewart comment! & you have been deflecting ever since. Maybe you should take a nap & reflect on your double standards & lack of debating skills. The Tories will still be in power when you awake. In fact take a long nap, 14 years might cover it
Report lapsy pa June 15, 2020 6:50 PM BST
Tbf Rory Stewart disagreed with the herd immunity policy,pity he wasn't listened to and the other eejit going around laughing he was shaking hands with people with covid.
Boris is grand for a pretendee Churchill,Hulk,etc and rousing people for Brexit but as for a pandemic it was never a great idea to give covid to the entire population.
Report InsiderTrader June 15, 2020 6:51 PM BST
WHO were not advising cancelling Mass Gatherings, Using face masks or blocking air traffic back in March/April.
Report InsiderTrader June 15, 2020 6:51 PM BST
Nor were SAGE.

Go back and read the minutes.
Report lapsy pa June 15, 2020 6:52 PM BST
But Rory Stewart was?
Report lapsy pa June 15, 2020 6:53 PM BST
And you,you were mad altogether for the herd immunity
Report InsiderTrader June 15, 2020 7:23 PM BST

Jun 15, 2020 -- 6:53PM, lapsy pa wrote:


And you,you were mad altogether for the herd immunity


Herd immunity looks to be reached in London to be fair.

Remember only 10-20% of the population required to have been infected to reach it.

Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- June 15, 2020 7:26 PM BST
Brain washed Sad
Report InsiderTrader June 15, 2020 7:31 PM BST

Jun 15, 2020 -- 7:26PM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:


Brain washed


Up to 80 percent of people can’t catch COVID-19, says leading scientist....

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/coronavirus/2020/06/06/Coronavirus-Up-to-80-percent-of-people-not-susceptible-to-COVID-19-says-data-expert

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