Churchill the racist

The statue of the man that saved Britain from the tyranny of real fascism only 75 years ago, and voted the greatest Briton ever only a few years ago, was desecrated yesterday by a bunch of imported thugs and criminals, and the police just stood by and watched them do it, how far this nation has sunk.

we have appointed a man to lead the country who is a misogynist whilst being an inveterate liar often prone to narcissism so i'd certainly agree that the country has reached the bottom of the barrel ...

Is that the guy who said that "Dundee was a boil on the ars* of the British Empire"?

Churchill was the only one who was prepared to take on Hitler and Starlin in Europe all the rest wanted to appease them while focusing on defence of the empire.

That was after the reds switched sides

You do know Hitler and Starling were allies until late 41

Jam, jute, boils and the Beano sounds about right.

Aussie lad here (don't hold it against me). My jaw dropped when I saw Sir Winston's statue desecrated. Had no idea why anyone would think this and now ready plenty of posts online mainly from Indians saying absolutely yes, he was chiefly responsible for a famine killing millions in India. In no history I ever learned do I remember any mention of such an incident being taught. Keen for some English perspective on this if any of you could kindly share?

Jun 8, 2020 -- 10:23AM, therhino wrote:

Aussie lad here (don't hold it against me). My jaw dropped when I saw Sir Winston's statue desecrated. Had no idea why anyone would think this and now ready plenty of posts online mainly from Indians saying absolutely yes, he was chiefly responsible for a famine killing millions in India. In no history I ever learned do I remember any mention of such an incident being taught. Keen for some English perspective on this if any of you could kindly share?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

I'm reading about it now. Do they teach this in school in England or is all about Sir Winston and the Nazis as it is here? Never a bad word said about the man over here...

Of course hard left taken over schools, Winston is the devil

The idea that Churchill was in any way ‘responsible’ or ‘caused’ the Bengal famine is of course absurd. The real cause was the fall of Burma to the Japanese, which cut off India’s main supply of rice imports when domestic sources fell short, which they did in Eastern Bengal after a devastating cyclone in mid-October 1942. It is true that Churchill opposed diverting food supplies and transports from other theaters to India to cover the shortfall: this was wartime. Some of his angry remarks to Amery don’t read very nicely in retrospect. However, anyone who has been through the relevant documents reprinted in The Transfer of Power volumes knows the facts:

“Churchill was concerned about the humanitarian catastrophe taking place there, and he pushed for whatever famine relief efforts India itself could provide; they simply weren’t adequate. Something like three million people died in Bengal and other parts of southern India as a result. We might even say that Churchill indirectly broke the Bengal famine by appointing as Viceroy Field Marshal Wavell, who mobilized the military to transport food and aid to the stricken regions (something that hadn’t occurred to anyone, apparently).”

The salient facts are that despite his initial expressions about Gandhi, Churchill did attempt to alleviate the famine. As William Manchester wrote, Churchill “always had second and third thoughts, and they usually improved as he went along. It was part of his pattern of response to any political issue that while his early reactions were often emotional, and even unworthy of him, they were usually succeeded by reason and generosity.” (The Last Lion, Boston: 1982, I: 843-44).

The Unconsidered Factor  World War II
If the famine had occurred in peacetime, it would have been dealt with effectively and quickly by the Raj, as so often in the past. At worst, Churchill’s failure was not sending more aid—in the midst of fighting a war for survival. And the war, of course, is what Churchill’s slanderers avoid considering.

Jun 8, 2020 -- 10:43AM, therhino wrote:

I'm reading about it now. Do they teach this in school in England or is all about Sir Winston and the Nazis as it is here? Never a bad word said about the man over here...

Of course not. According to our school books Churchill was born in 1939 and died in 1945. Any atrocities against British miners and dockworkers, or against Indians, Africans or Irish were mis-attributed to him and were in fact committed by a Chinston Wurchill.


We can only have goodies and baddies. No nuance is allowed.

I'm actually reading that very page Flush but not sure a site called winstonchurchill.org is going to be all that motivated to provide balance.

With the above idiots we would all be nazis now...Mandela was a terrorist, is he next? of course not no...

We can only have goodies and baddies. No nuance is allowed.

Pretty much the jist of it here.

It explains the circumstances, sikipedia is easily manipulated.

Without Churchill we would be ruled by fascists which execute minorities right now.

Like most people Churchill had both virtues and faults. He was undoubtedly a racist by today's standards but tbh so were most of us who were alive in the 1980s nevermind the 1880s.

Jun 8, 2020 -- 11:02AM, salmon spray wrote:

Like most people Churchill had both virtues and faults. He was undoubtedly a racist by today's standards but tbh so were most of us who were alive in the 1980s nevermind the 1880s.

+1

he,s the uk 2020 once again
seen in papers this morning Raheem sterling backing black lives matter protest,s,sterling backed by almost everyoine when Bulgarian fans were chanting racist slogans a year ago ,but today on facebook pages all the brexiteer,s are quoting karl henry who very few even no is a footballer,because he,s against the protest,s,

Jun 8, 2020 -- 10:58AM, therhino wrote:

We can only have goodies and baddies. No nuance is allowed.Pretty much the jist of it here.

Yep mate. The complete whitewashing of history, with the only defence being "you'd all be speaking German now". Yep, we all know that dickheads. But he did a lot more too, a lot of it very unpleasant. Talking about it isn't going to consign WWII to the margins.

This is where I once again I prove I am not such a leftie, as I am not sure Winnie was the chief culprit of the Bengal famine.  India throughout its history has had many famines and they do tend to breed like rabbits so that will put a strain on the food chain won't it?

There is undoubtedly dirt on Winnie like Gallipolli but there are great things too.  He even introduced the low pay commission

Do people think the statues/buildings put up by anyone in history that the mob think was 'racist' or owned slaved should be removed?

All buildings prior to around c.16 will have to come down.

Why 'racist' and not racist?

Jun 8, 2020 -- 11:15AM, InsiderTrader wrote:

Do people think the statues/buildings put up by anyone in history that the mob think was 'racist' or owned slaved should be removed?All buildings prior to around c.16 will have to come down.

This is an interesting question and obviously depends on specifically who you are talking about. In the case of the slave trader who actually profited from the exercise then yes, this is evolution. We no longer stand for this and therefore a monument to a man who made his wealth from it is not necessary. Whatever good he did with his wealth locally is fruit of the poison tree. Of course that stance casts a wide span which could be problematic...

I don't think all monuments need to stand forever though and the removal of a statue is history just as the same as the erecting of it.

Jun 8, 2020 -- 11:21AM, edy wrote:

Why 'racist' and not racist?

can we really be sure that someone who engaged in the trafficking of tens of thousands of people was really racist

Did people think status of people like Julius Caesar and George Washington should come down?

We should not hide our history, but we do not need to glorify slave traders.

Statue will be salvaged and put in a museum where doubtless it
will bring much interest and continue to educate folk.

* Statues

What about John C. Calhoun, the 7th President of the United States?

Yep, agree with that. We erect monuments all the time so not sure why there's such a fuss about removing them.

Depends on the context though. The Bristol guy is clearly pretty much just a slave trader who spent his money making some buildings as well as a very nice life for himself. A statue is about glory, not merely memory. By erecting a statue you are saying this is a great person, someone you should (lirerally) look up to. Don't think anyone can sat he deserves it.

Churchill is clearly different. His statue and memory is clearly in relation to the war. It shouldn't be touched imo. However, it wouldn't do any harm if a representative of the current government were to speak thus. To say he has a chequered history and formally acknowledge his role in some atrocious acts. But to then clarify his role in the war and how it's right that that is commemorated.

Treat people like grown ups and you may be surprised.

Jun 8, 2020 -- 11:32AM, InsiderTrader wrote:

What about John C. Calhoun, the 7th President of the United States?

I'm sure you could list examples all day. I think if you simply ask whether the public interest is served by the statues removal you have your answer.

IT producing a nice list of statues people should begin to start toppling, should be very helpful

I saw the statue of Saddam Hussein come down and was happy to see the joy on the faces of the Iraqis.

To my mind taking down statues of historical figures without consent of the majority of the population is wrong.

I could see a case for this man statue being taken down if that is what the majority in Bristol wanted.

I could see a case for Churchill being taken take if that is what the majority of the country wanted.

The idea that groups of thugs trash grade 2 historical monuments just because they feel like it is wrong in my view.

The Jimmy Savile statue was removed and his charity work airbrushed

Jun 8, 2020 -- 11:41AM, InsiderTrader wrote:

To my mind taking down statues of historical figures without consent of the majority of the population is wrong.I could see a case for this man statue being taken down if that is what the majority in Bristol wanted.I could see a case for Churchill being taken take if that is what the majority of the country wanted.The idea that groups of thugs trash grade 2 historical monuments just because they feel like it is wrong in my view.

I agree with the premise but to say 'just because they feel like it' is making light of the current state of play in my view. I do acknowledge though there are plenty of idiots out there taking advantage of the climate to simply go and be idiots.

I didn't see a single person trying to save statue of colston

It's been wrapped in bin bags for months,


Tories today saying statue removal is up to local mayors

Let's get on with it.

We've got a slavery museum up here. If his fans want to lift the statue up we've got a more natural home for it.



Looking forward to the next referendum btw to determine if the majority of the population think Ken Dodd's statue in Line Street should be removed.

Is this going to limited just direct slave traders? Or anyone that profited from it?

Dunno

no ethical consumption under capitalism innit

A lot of towns like Bristol, Liverpool, London etc was built on slave trading cash that went on to finance the industrial revolution. Throughout that time we had child labour and terrible conditions for all workers. Most of the historical wealth of all nations was built on blood.

If you feel guilt, sell your stuff and donate to some black charity.
DO something
Stop B1tching.
Cuz b1tching is ALL that you do.

Or give your money to fight modern slavery in North Africa and the Middle East.

Or call for education so that people understand and learn more about our history.

Agree that we should teach it but it most be in context that all nations including the African countries the slaves were taken from had slavery. Throughout history up to the time the Brtish banned slavery it was everywhere.

rather ironic that those cleaning the Churchill statue ,put it on their twitter/facebook feed that aligned them with tommy robinson ans London mayoral candidate sean baily who originally thanked them and retweeted their comments has now taken them of his social media feed,
wonder if doris will be thanking tommy for his lads cleaning his hero,s statue

so many people getting conflicted,praising/condeming actions depending on how they voted in reff/GE,

heard another young black lady giving her views on sky this morning and was surprised by her views,reactions to weekends events,then it came up on screen, she was thinking of standing for Brexit party,doesnt matter what subject people are discussing on media these days,you can tell their political leanings within seconds

Absolutely, bit the nature of schooling is you focus on the local more than the general. We don't spend a lot of time talking about the the rulers and politics of other countries, apart from the really big events.

So our education will focus on us and our acts. But in context of course. Just be truthful.

Jun 8, 2020 -- 12:16PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:

Absolutely, bit the nature of schooling is you focus on the local more than the general. We don't spend a lot of time talking about the the rulers and politics of other countries, apart from the really big events.So our education will focus on us and our acts. But in context of course. Just be truthful.

What if the truth does black people and the race division agenda no favours what then?

Should teach full context of slavery not your slanted view of it

Britain tried to monopolise the trade, other brits got it banned.

Compo was paid to slave owners but not to slaves

Brits paid taxes until 2014 to pay off the money borrowed to compensate slave traders
on abolition.

Windrush generation paid taxes to help pay of slavery debt

The guy that runs the school in Uganda my wife built was kidnapped and sold to be a child sacrifice 20 years ago. Luckily police on the Kenya-Uganda border stopped the car he was in the boot of.

So much horrific stuff continues to happen in Africa. After years of trying to help there I still have no clue what the answer is.

The truth on slavery isn't as favourable as the current accepted narrative that's why there is no open debate.
Similarly the truth on Police murder in the US by race isn't favourable so the facts are ignored and the debate isn't had.

There is a statue park in Budapest where a lot of
The communist regime statues are now housed.

It's quite a somber place, and part of the sad story
of soviet oppression

Part of history all the same.

Jun 8, 2020 -- 12:39PM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:

There is a statue park in Budapest where a lot ofThe communist regime statues are now housed. It's quite a somber place, and part of the sad storyof soviet oppressionPart of history all the same.

Churchill and communist leaders like Stalin is a false comparison.

I ain't making comparison between Churchill and stalin

I am pointing out that a statue park exists in Budapest for unwanted statues.

Just shows some of the thick ignorant c@nts you are dealing with on these marches ...........

Stephen Lawrence memorial in Eltham has cctv above it.. people have been arrested for defacing it....1.01 No arrests will be made over this FILTH graffiti

Rumours was a women done the Deed , ask the c@nt what year the war ended ,I would take evens it would not know , as stated a load of silly thick foooks banging along with their placards , As for colston what was the force behind that ??

Windrush generation came because a generation of young men were decimated by ww2 , almost 420000 young British men died to save us from facism.

Taxes? You fecking muppet Donny!

10,000 people from the Caribbean joined British Armed Forces in WW2. 600,000 from Africa also did so.

ISIS systematically destroyed thousands of the most precious archaeological sites and artifacts known to man. They were massively condemned for destroying such priceless and irreplaceable historic artifacts.

Their reasoning was that the sites and statues destroyed were sacrilegious to their beliefs.

Why does this make them any different to the scrotes who think that they can destroy and deface based solely on their own beliefs?

If it was not for Churchill the no only brown faces in Europe would be the ones waiting on tables. Dam that Churchill look what he's done.

If you can't see difference markzzz then there's not much point....

If you are going to pull a statue down of person who made money off the backs of others would you not be better off going after his decendents? I know it will be uncomfortable for most of the establishment including some people who claim to be progressive and whos education was indirectly paid for off the backs of others but anything less would be pointless would it not?

I won’t kneel with the masses,
I won’t be told my fate,
By people who hijack tragedy,
To perpetuate their hate.

Don’t you shout Black Lives Matter,
Whilst running through the streets,
When your people are burning Foot Locker,
Stealing Nikes for their feet.

Don’t dance on The Cenotaph,
Like it’s Carnival or Mardi Gras,
That sacred granite edifice,
Marks people who died in war.

How dare you besiege Number 10,
This isn’t even our fight,
If you want to go and protest,
Get a 4,000 mile flight.

Social distancing flouted,
Police punched in the face,
Missiles hurled at Downing Street.,
This isn’t about race.

It’s rent-a-mob and anarchists,
Versus police led by lambs,
They just stand there and take it,
Lefty Cressida tied their hands.

Meanwhile America’s burning,
It’s a tragedy we all agree,
That George Floyd lost his life,
For all the world to see.

Justice must take its course,
The cop has lost his job,
Now he faces twelve good and true,
Not a braying mob.

So Monday I won’t be kneeling,
I won’t even bow my head,
Because someone I don’t even know,
Has wound up dead.

An armed robber and a felon,
In and out of jail,
As a model citizen,
He was a total fail.

I’ll weep for whom I choose to,
I’ll say where and when,
Not because a lifelong offender,
Bought it in the end.

I don’t condone the officers,
They rightly face the wrath,
But ask me to kneel for a criminal?
Don’t make me laugh.

You can keep your lefty rhetoric,
Your dismantling of our state,
It’s BLM not Middle England,
That’s peddling the hate.

Under what law would you "go after" his descendants?

Benedict Cumminbuckets family made money from?

The same law that allows a mob to vandalise public property.

Anyway wd you wouldn't be affected would you?

Don't panic goose we all know you got no money they can't nail you for been a fantasist

Under what law would you "go after" his descendants?
whisperingdeath

there is no law...it would be an injustice

The truths coming out now a fewsm Rs doing 50p 20p

White Lives Matter too.

In March last year, 17-year-old Jodie Chesney was stabbed in the back and died in a park in Harold Hill, Romford.

It was an unprovoked attack on an innocent girl by a black person.


Bend your knee for Jodie – please.

in case their wearing gloves to hide the scars on theiur knuckles in the last few weeks ive noticed another way to recognise the loons,they start every answer with the words, WHAT ABOUT,

He was a druid? A top freemason. Not sure about racism? Black freemasons would be cconsidered brothers. Freemason oath supersedes all other loyalties. Even oaths to state.  Be free to google.  The V for victory salute is an old freemason symbol. Five. It salutes Lucifer.
Another top politician or king playing around with Satanism? Aprons.    Google kings of Europe and freemasons. Again... Their oath tells them that loyalty to their feplows and Lucifer supersedes all other loyalties.

Napoleon was a grand orient mason. His hand on heart waistcoat pose is freemason signalling. Googled freemason signals.

Passage from The River War

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

If they tore down Lord Nelsons statue it would be a disability hate crime.

I don't think Winnie would be too happy either

Ffs keep the Chinese out of this, thar in enough trouble

Don't believe the hype. Some heroes are villains. CChurchill dI'd not win the war. The British empire, rusais,USA. Not one man. He was a war Monger, career soldier.  he was iimmensely talented. A good artist,writer,speech maKer. Could turn his hand to aanything. Yet he allied himyself to freemasons? Power hungry.
They nred to ccontrol others. Manipulate others. All ppolitician's want this. All are suspect.
We had three million Indian soldiers.resources that Hitler envied. A navy. The commonwealth. Hitler was never going to win. Russia turned him around in the winter.
Cruelty is not a  virtue.
He destroyed the value of the  pound as chancellor. Gold.

Our world is controlled by semi fake wars. Both sides have freemason links. Fake wrestling. It does not matter who wins. It profits the war mongers. People die. Fortunes are made. Bush and his band of brothers made billions. While the dpent a trillion or two of public money destroying some brown people in the mmiddle  east. Doing their god' s work. In god they trjust is on the dollar, alongside the mason pyramid, text,new world oorder.
Britain paid the USA Upto 2007. Then in 2008 a financial collapse?  They control the world and we salute them for their great greed, being poor a sin,  being riCh is vvirtue. Good is evil. Evil is good.
Shame it's all over.

Has anyone suggested perhaps a statue of George Floyde to stand next to Winston in Parliament sq?

No Justice, No peace..

he wont be able to get a visa because of his criminal past

they didnt let M

Mike Tyson in because of his criminal conviction

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFrX02KOa8c

This man was called racist by the crowd for taking down offensive signs on Churchill's statue.

Dukey

You do know Iron Mike the Muslim is a convicted rapist?

Hitler was a German nut. Churchill was his oopposite number. DRUID. Freemason. Luciferian. Hitler was leader of men carried away by power.  the brits invented the concentrattion camp. Boer war. We are not heroes. We all are flawed people. Some choose God. Some chpose nothing. Some people are passive, some are t-rex monsters.  All human. To say this man was 'good' is to ignore all his flaws. We all have flaws. No man is a saint on earth. Bill CCosby, jimmy saville, yesterday's hero properly scrutinized shows us flawed people. No one is good. We are human. War and glory, we murder people using landmines, incendiaries, dropped from thousands of feet onto hospitals and schools as eell as munitions factories. This is heroic?
After world war one, did we occupy Germany? We made them pay a huge bill.  so why did we fight, if they return the land. In most wars all terrstory is returned. Trying to krep it is a strain. Eventually people win out. So we are just mad sick people. Some passive, some dominate.