Lockdown delay 'cost a lot of lives', says science adviser

Isn't hindsight a marvellous thing...and all the more ironic for being posted on a BETTING forum

After-timing anyone?

How many Lives will be cost by the failure to Ignore SD by 10s of 1000s nicely spread across the UK this weekend ,All because some geezer was murdered by the Police in a Land far away ,that has absolutely nothing to do with this Country , Millions will have been put at risk , spec parents and grandparents of the so called protesters ,their actions are beyond callous ..

Hindsite indeed, but plenty to be learnt chewing the fat.

Many lives saved by self isolation by folk not awaiting government advice too.

Read the sage notes from back then.

They were clueless.

Really as we have London we are similar to New York.

If we wanted no cases we would have stopped things in Dec/Jan and still be locked down.

In fact we should remain locked down forever to stop a new virus coming in if saving lives from virus is priority.

Jun 7, 2020 -- 3:07PM, Petraco wrote:

Isn't hindsight a marvellous thing...and all the more ironic for being posted on a BETTING forum After-timing anyone?

My thoughts exactly.

Very well put Petraco.

Best not to reflect then, eh.

Sage as advised by cummings

Hmmmmm

What about the Current crop of c@nts marauding around ? How many lives will that cost ??

It seems as if some folk don't even have hindsite

Still laying 2-2 draw in 1966 World Cup final

Those that want to move on seem to accept government got it wrong

You spoke up mid March YHTL and so did a few others,it isn't hindsight.
An estimated 1/3 of hospital deaths could have been avoided with an earlier lockdown i read somewhere.
The above is squarely at the hands of the tory goverment who wanted to implement a herd immunity policy on the people of the UK.

I respect the fact that some people think lockdowns are good.

I disagree and think most could be done through sensible distancing for the young and fit.

What I do not respect is that the same people who want tougher lockdown, moan that BAME people are dying of Covid, want schools closed etc just cannot bring themselves to condemn the virtue signalers breaking even basic social distancing now in London and elsewhere.

Define a "virtue signaller" for us please.

Edmunds admitted he thought Herd immunity was the best solution.

Jun 7, 2020 -- 4:27PM, InsiderTrader wrote:

I respect the fact that some people think lockdowns are good.I disagree and think most could be done through sensible distancing for the young and fit.What I do not respect is that the same people who want tougher lockdown, moan that BAME people are dying of Covid, want schools closed etc just cannot bring themselves to condemn the virtue signalers breaking even basic social distancing now in London and elsewhere.

Here is one!

I think these mass protests at this particular point in time during the pandemic are very very foolish.

Jun 7, 2020 -- 4:36PM, Angoose wrote:

Define a "virtue signaller" for us please.

'Virtue signalling is the popular modern habit of indicating that one has virtue merely by expressing disgust or favour for certain political ideas or cultural happenings.'

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/virtue-signalling

I'm not sure anyone wanted a tougher lockdown,what people wanted then was no foreign planes from affected countries,control of passenger numbers on public places so they weren't rammed together,advice on face covering to those that had to go in public places like supermarkets amongst other things.

Funny how people complaining about the mass protests now couldn't give a flying fook in mid March when the tory death machine was in full flow.

Guardian readers would be a fair and more concise summary IT.

Jun 7, 2020 -- 4:43PM, lapsy pa wrote:

I'm not sure anyone wanted a tougher lockdown,what people wanted then was no foreign planes from affected countries,control of passenger numbers on public places so they weren't rammed together,advice on face covering to those that had to go in public places like supermarkets amongst other things.Funny how people complaining about the mass protests now couldn't give a flying fook in mid March when the tory death machine was in full flow.

Spelt it out well lapsy!

Jun 7, 2020 -- 4:42PM, InsiderTrader wrote:

Jun  7, 2020 --  3:36PM, Angoose wrote:Define a "virtue signaller" for us please.'Virtue signalling is the popular modern habit of indicating that one has virtue merely by expressing disgust or favour for certain political ideas or cultural happenings.'https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/virtue-signalling

Has the term become a convenient way of dismissing the deeply held views of individuals by those who hold opposing views, the use of the term implying that the views are not genuine ?

Jun 7, 2020 -- 4:49PM, Angoose wrote:

Jun  7, 2020 --  3:42PM, InsiderTrader wrote:Jun  7, 2020 --  3:36PM, Angoose wrote:Define a "virtue signaller" for us please.'Virtue signalling is the popular modern habit of indicating that one has virtue merely by expressing disgust or favour for certain political ideas or cultural happenings.'https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/virtue-signa... the term become a convenient way of dismissing the deeply held views of individuals by those who hold opposing views, the use of the term implying that the views are not genuine ?

Racism by some individuals existed yesterday, exists today and will exist tomorrow.

These people only choose to come out when a white person allegedly does something wrong. If a black person kills a black person they do not come out and protest? Maybe if it was all over the media and social media. It seems some cases get attention and like clockwork people jump up and protest for a while. Then a month or two later they are onto something else.

Right now is not the time for people who claim to be pro-lockdown to be giving these people a free pass.

Jun 7, 2020 -- 4:46PM, saddo wrote:

Guardian readers would be a fair and more concise summary IT.

Was Pritti Patel "virtue signalling" when she announced that prisoners would be released early to avoid the risk of them contracting COVID only for this not to actually take place ?

Ah, it did take place but they released at least six prisoners they shouldn't have.

Getting off topic

Maybe that's a dis virtue signalling tactic for those that know
Hindite shows them in bad light

Hindsite

Don't agree with any of these "protests" particulary at this point in time(nearly 2 weeks after) myself Saddo,they have been hijacked and are detrimental to any country going through a pandemic.

not ecactly a revelation we all knew at the time that lockdown came too late - Cummings and Pericles wanted to play their herd immunity games - then sh@t themselves when they realised just how many would die. too late but Boris can be proud only a year in office and he's already made the UK a world leader in something

The OP asked reasonable questions without bias. So what do we get:

Petraco • June 7, 2020 3:07 PM BST
Isn't hindsight a marvellous thing...and all the more ironic for being posted on a BETTING forum Laugh
After-timing anyone?

casemoney • June 7, 2020 3:12 PM BST
How many Lives will be cost by the failure to Ignore SD by 10s of 1000s nicely spread across the UK this weekend ,All because some geezer was murdered by the Police in a Land far away ,that has absolutely nothing to do with this Country , Millions will have been put at risk , spec parents and grandparents of the so called protesters ,their actions are beyond callous ..

casemoney • June 7, 2020 3:44 PM BST
What about the Current crop of c@nts marauding around ? How many lives will that cost ??

InsiderTrader • June 7, 2020 4:27 PM BST
I respect the fact that some people think lockdowns are good.
I disagree and think most could be done through sensible distancing for the young and fit.
What I do not respect is that the same people who want tougher lockdown, moan that BAME people are dying of Covid, want schools closed etc just cannot bring themselves to condemn the virtue signalers breaking even basic social distancing now in London and elsewhere.

I can't help but think that these people have a broader agenda and can't answer direct questions.

I'll answer by saying we did know enough at the time because of what had happened in other countries. We should have been far better prepared - a pandemic had previously been deemed a great risk. Under the nasties' austerity policy the NHS had been run on cutting corners so was underfunded and ill-equipped.

The statistics rather suggest that the lockdown made no difference to case numbers.

I thought the lockdown would work and so fully expected the London boroughs, having already an outbreak before it was implemented, would remain the worst areas, and be the last to come under control. And I expected areas that locked down with hardly any cases would avoid any outbreak.

Now we know that London will end up as a below average area for virus cases. And that several places that appeared to have 'locked down in time' will end up amongst the very worst.

It just seems once the virus is seeded in a population it just runs it's course regardless. A lockdown before this 'seeding' would have made a big difference, but surely people aren't thinking this could have been in March ? Studies seem to indicate the R number was declining by 2nd week of March, so I would think an effective lockdown date would have been early February.

The second highest number of deaths in the world on our small island on the other side of the world from the outbreak is a national disgrace.

Theres another Professor saying far more are going to die because of the lockdown than coronavirus. Nobody really knows do they.

pretty irrelevant where it started when beyond doubt it was spreading in Europe in January and maybe even before that

9th March - I think we had  300 odd confirmed cases and 4 or 5 deaths.

I can't recall many/any  press reports/ individuals demanding a lockdown at that time

Just a week later we were advised to avoid non essential contact - I seem to recall many partied on the weekend of the 20/21/22 March before official lockdown began on 23rd.

Easy with hindsight to say we should have locked down earlier - Not many were were saying it at the time though.

Maybe with hindsight the best approach would have been to allow the young to go about their business , and tell the vulnerable to lock themselves away even more ?

JTG, went to germany on 10th march and I was more concerned about going there than anything going on here - they had more cases and deaths at that time

The Biggest spreader of the Virus was London , Buses and tubes left running RAMMED  , will have spread all over the country ...

Is there any evidence whatsoever that lockdown has saved any lives at all ? Anything ?

If i say no and a government scientist says yes which neither of us can substantiate either way who is correct ?

Have a look at the Latest From Harvard John I put a Link up , and How all of a sudden are there no new cases in London , all seems very strange to me ?

lockdown delay 'cost a lot of lives', says science adviser

redundant use of the word delay and quotation marks imo

something like half the population will live within an hour's travel of London. the number of people commuting even from towns 50 or 60 miles away at 6am in the morning is incredible. certainly way more than were doing it 20 or 30 years ago

True number is 51,000 today. That means the true number is between 51,000-120,000

It was 60,000 last week, 50,000 2 weeks ago, 80,000 a few weeks ago

No one has a clue what to believe now so its job done, none of these bas*ards will ever see a court room and not one of them will see a jail cell

YEP , unreal would have been like ehe center of an atomic explosion

Sky News top story: 'Primary schools idea to reopen shelved'... Underneath Sky News top story: 'half of primary schools reopen as lockdown eases'

So they are reopening but not reopening

If they are this incompetent why are they still running the show?

I know there are folks that commute from places like Swansea and Leeds. Why? How many hours does it add on to your working week? Home to train station, cost of parking at station, waiting on train, train journey hopefully without delays and getting a seat, travel from train station to work, and back again every working day. What kind of life is that?

Insanity , When u do add in the Intercity Trains planes travel that was also left unabaited , What could possibly go wrong

3 hours on train can be useful time pp, beats driving if you are getting ready for something.

I can see commuting being useful but if you need to do it for 6 months or more just move!

Jun 9, 2020 -- 2:28PM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:

3 hours on train can be useful time pp, beats driving if you are getting ready for something.I can see commuting being useful but if you need to do it for 6 months or more just move!

Well, the question has to be asked, if you can do your work on the train for three hours or more, why can't you do that work at home? Why travel at all ? Let's suppose you work a normal 39 hour week. Add three hours travelling time per day in and now you are up to a 54 hour week, assuming no travel disruptions. Surely your family and social life comes before that as a choice.

https://www.aier.org/article/professor-lockdown-now-claims-to-have-saved-3-1...   rebuts the latest Imperial paper

Giving a presentation, leading a team, lots of other reasons

Maybe today you can do it online, but not in my day.

You really cannot beat face to face chats to build a relationship,
being willing to travel to meet somebody is a powerful tool for building trust.

If you are travelling simply to do a mundane job then I agree
the travel must be a huge drag on time and your life.

When I moved from Newcastle to Durham, which ain't that far
I noticed a huge difference caused by additional travel time.

20 mins each way  by train but hours by car each day

Off topic a bit, perhaps, but I seem to recall the media badgering the government to close schools back in March. Now they badger not to open them.

I am not qualified to know either way but I can see how our media are the most trouble making, disagreeable bunch of a*seholes in the country.

The BBC are the worst. Every single report on the virus is either full of hysteria or totally bland.

Yesterday, one of the BBC's journo's gleefully reported that anyone over the age of 90 was 10,000 times more likely to die of the virus than someone under 40. Well, there's a thing. A 90 year old is more vulnerable. A stupid, stupid thing to report but the BBC just have to find something negative to say on every story.

BTW, hindsight is the most precious thing in the world but nobody ever has it until it is too late. Many on here, plus the media, need to bear that in mind a bit more.

As soon as you read "says science advisor" you know it is bound to be nonsense

Is there much opposition to the assertion we should have gone into lockdown sooner or come out earlier?

There are a number of industries that could have kept working imho.

There is a lot of politics involved in this unfortunately politicians of every hue particularly Labour went into hiding when the country for once needed them.

I also think some of the guilty need exposing.

Forget the Government, they are not even worth it right now

Who are PHE and what do they do?

How is the NHS run?

How do private hospitals run compared to the NHS?

Jun 11, 2020 -- 8:09AM, Whisperingdeath wrote:

I also think some of the guilty need exposing.Forget the Government, they are not even worth it right nowWho are PHE and what do they do?How is the NHS run?How do private hospitals run compared to the NHS?

Dont you dare insult the NHS.

We clap for it every week.

It is the new religion.

Here’s something else IT

Those hero’s we clap every week are probably responsible in part for the spreading of the virus in hospitals and into Care Homes.

The Covid Wards were secure, probably the safest place in the Hospitals. Many Nurses and Doctors would come out of there and go to other areas of the Hospital. I know for a fact of one hospital in West London where they were served tea and coffee ( by Airline workers ) they did not observe social distancing and did not wear masks.. this was cavalier, blasé and damned stupid and no doubt helped spread the virus.

Now all hospital workers INCLUDING the receptionists have to wear masks NOW

No wonder sick people did not want to go to hospital