UK 'to bring in 14-day quarantine' for air passengers

I have to say though what a great job Dorris is doing

greatest prime minister in labours history,

Still 3 months late. Why end of May, why not as from this coming monday?

Once we get to the point where we let pubs, hotels and restaurants open here, then we have to impose quarantine on visitors from infected countries, else it will rise up again.

Why end of May, why not as from this coming monday?   Because we are currently in lockdown, so won't make a material difference

May 9, 2020 -- 11:26AM, 1st time poster wrote:

greatest prime minister in labours history,

Yep, best part time Labour Prime Minister ever.

I laugh till it hurts at the deliberately farcical way the government handles this covid project

Also the logistics of sorting out a practical and effective quarantine will take time.

May 9, 2020 -- 11:36AM, CLYDEBANK29 wrote:

Also the logistics of sorting out a practical and effective quarantine will take time.

Not at all, just free all our prisoners as we have been doing and fill their cells with folks in quarantine.

lockdown is only as good as the weakest nations response. This virus has seeded everywhere on earth ffs

Lockdown is literally about as useful as playing snooker with a rope.

Has any of the supposed journalists asked these w*nk politicians what the time line and data points are that need to be met in order to get the world going again.
There is none. They are making it up as they go along.

Happy to see world economies bankrupted so they can pretend some make believe vaccine will be created in 12 months despite no coronavirus vaccine having never been created in human history ffs

If there's a curfew now then the time factor is irrelevant. But, a relaxation of lockdwon has been mooted, and could be as soon as this coming monday. I've no doubt any potential arrival into the UK will probably expedite their entry in order to avoid a 14-day quarantine either at the place of abode or a hotel near port of entry.

So no quarantine by government through times of extreme danger with massive multiple infections from outside the UK imported to add to the contagion spread by tory mps and their families.

Then as other countries get their virus infection down... We in the uk will begin to ask them to quarentine



It really is staggering that not more people are mocking us for this shambles we elected.

Logistics? Logistics would have been discussed in detail and implementation asap if necessary.

They can locate people via their mobile phones. I can’t Ashley see this quarantine measure happening. It is too late. I am hoping those vulnerable have already caught it and many more of us have had it and not even known.

Leave you mobile phone at home when you go out

The government are still playing catch-up with the virus even in the eyes of a lay person like myself; this is neither anti-government nor politically inclined. But, the government have either been led-up the garden path by the health "experts" or being disingenuous with the truth or treating us citizens as idiots or children.

There's only so much patience and tolerance on the part of most UK citizens on their handling of this virus before a public outcry or dissatisfaction witnessed in the near future; graphs and projections will no longer be accepted as gospel truth.

Why not quarantine now, or at least ask folk to

Why wait until june

It's crazy




Pleased the garden centres are opening, but begs the question why were they closed?

Staggering climb down by the government. As twizzle says, the experts said there was ‘no point doing this as the virus was already here.’

That statement was about as dumb a thing we’ve heard so far. It’s like saying there’s no point banning imports of Kalashnikovs because there are loads here already

Crikey impossible123 criticises the Government hold the front page!

Things must be bad!

They are making it up as they go along.

Of course they are because it's a fluid situation that's evolving rapidly.  Only a fecking idiot sticks to a rigid plan.

I know there are plenty of people that want a rigid plan because that's all they can mentally cope with.

I'm listening and watching the news and pictures from abroad to guide me, and not what comes out of the voiceboxes of government in the daily 5pm briefing. I believe the government and health "experts" are managing our expectation, taking our trust as a given and treating us as children or idiots.

But no more!

I do not want a rigid plan from the government. I just want the government to be proactive and truthful eg non-procurement of PPE and equipment at the outset; stop treating the UK citizens as morons; etc.

The incompetence and dereliction of duty from the government have to stopped.

NO PLAN IS BETTER THAN A BAD PLAN

Been massive criticism on many forums about what’s happening at airports, Government has decided it needs to be in a position to claim it took action, when this crisis is discussed in future, can hear it now, “we took action, we took action.....

People arriving in the UK would have to self-isolate at a private residence.


So before they self-isolate, they travel by rail or road to their place of quarantine.

Why can't they quarantine for two weeks before they travel ie in the country of origin.

the only 2 things the government and scientists have agreed on,rightly or wrongly in last 12 weeks are.
face masks make very little or no difference
quarantining passengers make,s little difference

so after 10 weeks what 2 things will doris announce

It really is farcical 1tp

he may well say 'wear a face mask when you are in quarantine'

I believe quarantine prior to travelling could only be on trust and open to abuse. I think quarantine ought to be near the port of entry and place of abode chosen by government and paid for by new arrival. This cost cannot be born out by taxpayers.

It's pathetic big ticket "Gesture Politics" of the worst kind to show they are being tough to the baying mob of the clueless.
It's very depressing this government is so weak they are lowering themself to appease them.

Can't believe they are doing this. From any long term helicopter view it's pretty much pointless but very destructive.

The airlines and tourist industries might as well lay off another 1/3 of their staff or fold now.

Meanwhile in Sweden someone calls it like it is.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8300631/Swedish-Covid-19-expert-says-lockdown-merely-delaying-inevitable.html

It's so far gone it's endemic. Acting like we're going to "beat it" by an endless lockdown is delusional.

It is the weakest government I have ever seen, by a mile.

No one has your foresight nevertheless, despite mistakes made at the outset another period of lockdown is necessary and proper. The virus cannot be allowed to embark on a 2nd wave as it's the case in Japan and possibly Singapore.

I think we are all in agreement the government has fallen between two stools on this.

Those who wanted forced lockdown say they did it too late.

Those who wanted just shielding the vulnerable and basic social distancing say they are doing too much.

We are in the worst of both worlds. A lot of death and a lot of restrictions on life.

It is easy to start restrictions.

Very hard to end them.

Look at schools. Unions saying no thanks to opening in June even though only 3 under 15s have died having tested positive.

A lack of prep and not taking the threat of the virus seriously at the outset have resulted in too many deaths and an economy suffering the highest contraction in just over a few months. But, the time to apportion blame is not now.

Restricting air travel and quarantine for arrivals was arguably the first thing needed to be done.

To do it now looks like an admission of failure and an attempt to finally listen. Too late.

Of course. One bad apple spoils the barrel, as the saying goes; a good prep is more likely to yield a good result eg in exam, interview, life, etc. But, someone managed to forget to tell the government, somehow.

May 9, 2020 -- 1:04PM, impossible123 wrote:

A lack of prep and not taking the threat of the virus seriously at the outset have resulted in too many deaths and an economy suffering the highest contraction in just over a few months. But, the time to apportion blame is not now.

There's no logic to that statement, clearly a longer lockdown is more damaging to the economy. Our version of a lockdown has been one of the least severe. Anecdotally, most older people don't want the economy sacrificed to protect as many people from the virus as possible.

Flights were already down 98%.
Are the government going to bail out the airlines and airports specifically for the duration of this knee jerk obviously populist measure?

It's incredibly hard to believe it will make any significant statistical difference vs if we had say "flying people without symptoms wearing issued masks sitting socially distanced on planes, from countries with a lower or similar infection rate than here", when we've likely got millions infected already. 

Populist gesture politics. Very sad to see.

May 9, 2020 -- 1:10PM, Cider wrote:

May  9, 2020 -- 12:04PM, impossible123 wrote:A lack of prep and not taking the threat of the virus seriously at the outset have resulted in too many deaths and an economy suffering the highest contraction in just over a few months. But, the time to apportion blame is not now.There's no logic to that statement, clearly a longer lockdown is more damaging to the economy. Our version of a lockdown has been one of the least severe. Anecdotally, most older people don't want the economy sacrificed to protect as many people from the virus as possible.

What prep? What plan?

Only Asian countries that suffered from similar life threatening pandemics were fully prepared. The plan was published at the start of March iirc.

Anecdotally, most older people don't want the economy sacrificed to protect as many people from the virus as possible.

Cider, remember that survey you were happy to selectively quote from earlier in the week ?

So this is only older people?

Younger people tend to care more about the older generation than the older generation care about themselves.

LOL.

Yes what plan Politics Punter? Maybe your beloved SNP should have prepared better given their was an exercise 5 years ago in Scotland based on a flu Pandemic and it showed up concerns about PPE in Scotland but the SNP (who are totally in charge of Scotland's NHS) apparently didn't then stockpile
https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/warning-ignored-secret-report-exposed-large-gaps-in-crisis-plans-and-demanded-urgent-action-be-taken/

It's interesting how the Tories did a very similar exercise about the same time and their lack of a response to it is considered gross neglicence, but the Teflon SNP have a similar lack of response and preperation and get away with it, and the above leaked report gets so little coverage.

If there had been a better prep at the outset eg a proper level of procurement of PPE and equipment and closing of our borders the ferocity of the spread and death toll would have been lesser and more manageable; any lockdown would have been swift and shorter, and a recovery of gdp sooner.

This is akin to putting up the necessary structures of a new built esp the roof so that in the event of incessant rain work in the interior can still proceed.

The Far East and SEA countries have had experienced with SARS thus better prepared and equipped to adapt to deal with Covid-19; the astutesness of Australia and New Zealand meant a vast difference to USA and the majority of the EU countries.

*negligence

Well what proportion of people who are furloughed on 80% or 100% of wages are going to vote to return to work, for essentially no gain?

This is a classic case for any democracy, whatever path the gvnt takes take there's going to be plenty of vocal opposition to it.

Of course there's plenty on here that will be vocal against whatever choices they make either way.

I am sure Dorris will save us and turn out to be the bestest Prime Minister ever

weakest government ever
uk is a cabinet government
half of cabinet havnt got an opinion on the worst crisis in 70 years
and the other half arnt allowed an opinion

May 9, 2020 -- 1:25PM, impossible123 wrote:

If there had been a better prep at the outset eg a proper level of procurement of PPE and equipment and closing of our borders the ferocity of the spread and death toll would have been lesser and more manageable; any lockdown would have been swift and shorter, and a recovery of gdp sooner.This is akin to putting up the necessary structures of a new built esp the roof so that in the event of incessant rain work in the interior can still proceed.The Far East and SEA countries have had experienced with SARS thus better prepared and equipped to adapt to deal with Covid-19; the astutesness of Australia and New Zealand meant a vast difference to USA and the majority of the EU countries.

Why are people obsessed with the existing death toll, it's bizarre. In the overall scheme of things it will be a minor concern. Half a million people die in a normal year. Many of those in the covid 19 numbers would have died within a year without covid 19. We don't know the full cost yet.

at least there,ll be plenty of vaccines to go round if ones is found I,m sure the right wing loons will march on Westminster green demanding the under 18,s and over 50,s are the only ones allowed it,the rest can just jog on with their mild .no symptons,

May 9, 2020 -- 1:24PM, Just Checking wrote:

Yes what plan Politics Punter? Maybe your beloved SNP should have prepared better given their was an exercise 5 years ago in Scotland based on a flu Pandemic and it showed up concerns about PPE in Scotland but the SNP (who are totally in charge of Scotland's NHS) apparently didn't then stockpilehttps://www.sundaypost.com/fp/warning-ignored-secret-report-exposed... interesting how the Tories did a very similar exercise about the same time and their lack of a response to it is considered gross neglicence, but the Teflon SNP have a similar lack of response and preperation and get away with it, and the above leaked report gets so little coverage.

?? I'm not Scottish.

as mentioned previously - several months too late.

One of my colleagues flew out for a three day stay in Northern Italy when the doodah had already hit the whatsit

She took umbridge when I intimated she might be adding to a potential UK death Toll.

If you had shares in TUI right now would you not try to get rid ASAP.

Dickie Branson must be punch drunk right now.

they are basically asking us to bail out a bit harder after giving us smaller buckets and kicking a bigger whole in the side of our boat.

I mean this is thick obviously. Just wrong on a number of levels. However, what are the numbers of people affected? Air travel is down to near zero; there is basically no tourism nor business travel happening. So is it just people returning home? Then is it just virtue signalling. Enact a policy the country said should have been done months ago simply for the sake of being seen to do something.



Christ, I knew Johnson was poor and I knew this government would be poor but this is way beyond anything I could have thought. They're just hopeless.

I don’t think these actions will be pushed through. Not sure what will happen in general but this action is far too late unless there are massive new surges in contraction.

Just the thinking is defying logic. They really do not have a scooby. It isn’t even join the dots it’s more like throw the dots to see what to do next.

By the way, isn't the solution simply testing at either end of the flight. Needs a reliable test and some co-ordinated thinking between nations but surely that's not beyond the wit of man.

no at the beginning of the flight so they cant fly

May 9, 2020 -- 2:04PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:

I mean this is thick obviously. Just wrong on a number of levels. However, what are the numbers of people affected? Air travel is down to near zero; there is basically no tourism nor business travel happening. So is it just people returning home? Then is it just virtue signalling. Enact a policy the country said should have been done months ago simply for the sake of being seen to do something.Christ, I knew Johnson was poor and I knew this government would be poor but this is way beyond anything I could have thought. They're just hopeless.

They aspire to be hopeless. A bunch of folks thrown together for the sole reason to support Boris through brexit. They are so far out of their depth it's truly disgusting.

I find it unbelievable someone can be so non-sensitive and blase about death toll of Covid-19. These are someone's family member or lose relative; these deaths are within a very short period of time. If this death toll persists consistently over a year - if the spread of Covid-19 is unchecked - the death toll will be significantly higher with little doubt.

Death tolls tend not to go down*




*one of my big bugbears of news reports: "The death toll has risen further". Yep lad, they can only every really go one way.

paulsculley,james not so,cleverlyt used to shout and cheer rabble rouse when DORIS WAS  doing his zip WIRE ACT AND making doris island out of yogurt cartons,you don't really expect them top be asked their opinion on the greatest crisis in 70 years

there,ll be enquiry after enquiry,tax rise after tax rise,spending cuts,levelling down,with no sign of a  Brexit benefit in the good times for 50 years according to rees mugg,these people have nothing to offer,nothing to say,
pritti cant even stop waves of boats reaching dover

Boris Johnson needs to take control of the cockpit
This crisis is a flight into the unknown and we need the captain to stop the blustering and talk to us like grown-ups
Matthew Parris
Friday May 08 2020, 6.00pm, The Times
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‘Chocks away!” Or that’s what some in the news media thought they’d heard. “Magic Monday!” trilled the Daily Star this week, skipping past the weekend and the prime minister’s curtain-raiser tomorrow on prospects for relaxing lockdown. “Hurrah! Lockdown freedom beckons” rejoiced the Daily Mail. For The Sun we can look forward to “Happy Monday”.

Or can we? “Abort! Abort! Take-off abandoned”. That’s what others appear to be hearing. For this newspaper yesterday it was “PM to keep Britain in lockdown till June”; and for the FT: “Boris Johnson urges ‘maximum caution’ over easing lockdown”. We’re at a loss to know who in government is trying to communicate what.

Is there anyone in the cockpit? It’s time to ask whether Boris Johnson is up to the job. A nation has a profound need to believe that, whether or not we know what’s going on, somebody does, and that would normally be the prime minister. A national leader cannot always tell us what’s happening or what’s coming — there may be reasons for caution here — but we need to be persuaded that the leader is leading: in charge, across his brief, able to bang heads together and when key decisions loom, equipped and ready to take them.

Well, here he is at prime minister’s questions this week. I quote at length and include the ums and ers because the halting prolixity, waffle and intellectual confusion need to be flagged up. An increasingly formidable Sir Keir Starmer had asked why Britain had abandoned its testing programme in March, only to resume it now.

The prime minister: “A-a-as I think is readily apparent, Mr Speaker, to everybody who has studied the, er, the situation, and I think the scientists would, er, confirm, the difficulty in mid-March was that, er, the, er, tracing capacity that we had — it had been useful … in the containment phase of the epidemic er, that capacity was no longer useful or relevant, since the, er, transmission from individuals within the UK um meant that it exceeded our capacity. … [A]as we get the new cases down, er, we will have a team that will genuinely be able to track and, er, trace hundreds of thousands of people across the country, and thereby to drive down the epidemic. And so, er, I mean, to put it in a nutshell, it is easier, er, to do now — now that we have built up the team on the, on the way out — than it was as er, the epidemic took off …”


Johnson went on to throw us a promise to test 200,000 people a day by the end of this month. Sadly, social distancing means we couldn’t see the face of the health secretary, as this pledge was made. Later, asked about public transport, Johnson started burbling about a new, golden age of cycling. Rush-hour Tube trains carry more than a thousand passengers every two minutes.

Prime ministers come in different shapes and sizes and there isn’t a single ideal type. There are details-people: Margaret Thatcher liked to be down in the engine room, sleeves-up. Tony Blair was readier to step back and leave the rather heavyweight team of cabinet colleagues he assembled to get on with the job — but you never doubted who was boss, or his intellectual command of his own government’s plans.

I suppose the case for Mr Johnson’s leadership was that he would be more of the second type, assembling a crack team, giving them the authority to lead in their own areas of expertise, but conveying always a uniting sense of purpose, and infusing the whole with that bouncy sense of optimism that is his singular gift. One begins to wonder, however, whether that word “singular” should be replaced with “single”, and whether even this gift is wearing thin. Johnson does not look well and doesn’t sound as though he’s leading. I do not like what I’m hearing from insiders about confusion in Downing Street; about a lack of that needed sense of a collegiate cabinet pulling together behind a coherent mission; and about hostilities and factionalism between ministers, and with No 10.

Most dismaying of all is the intellectual weakness of the mangled case the government is putting across. What is all this nonsense about the R-number, when all that means is whether or how fast the disease is spreading? Media deference to the priestly mumbo-jumbo reminds me of the bourgeois gentleman in Molière’s comedy of the same name, deeply impressed to learn from his tutor that he has been speaking something called “prose” all his life. Reproduction-rate means spread-rate and here we can make only educated guesses from a hugely patchy picture where many of the numbers aren’t available, and averages are of limited use. If we’re beating the virus back we’re not beating it back because we’re getting the R number down: the R number is down because we’re beating it back.

And who at the top of government is treating the population like grown-ups and explaining that relaxing lockdown will inevitably result in new outbreaks; and that instead of screaming “Argh! Second wave!” we shall need calmly to contain those outbreaks, with perhaps new, partial lockdowns here and there? Is Johnson ready to face down the trade unions and explain that precise regulations governing reopened workplaces are impossible: every business, every space, staircase, production line is different, and “use your common sense” must be the limit of workable advice?

This is not apocalypse and we’re not facing an enemy that threatens to kill all or even most of us. That Johnson himself nearly died does not mean he understands better. The suggestion he has undergone some kind of transfiguration troubles me. If a prime minister needs direct personal experience of a danger in order to comprehend danger to others, then heaven help us. Besides, intensive care may have warped his judgment, leading to jumpiness.

The growing need is for intellect, clarity, an end to nonsense about the Blitz and boasts about how well Britain is doing (we aren’t), and a readiness to talk to citizens as adults. Regrettably, Johnson has an Etonian distrust of intellect among colleagues, and a wariness of explaining things honestly and properly to hoi polloi. Perhaps everyone is waiting for the old Boris to bounce back, but is “back” the word? He was once noisier and bouncier, for sure, but was his ever a good, problem-solving mind? Can you remember any big dilemma of government he ever tackled and sorted? Any unpopular policy he ever won us over to? There’s a hole at the top of government and I doubt it’s Boris-shaped. If it is, we shall see tomorrow.

s

PorcupineorPineapple 09 May 20 13:05 Joined: 03 Dec 15 | Topic/replies: 9,494 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
By the way, isn't the solution simply testing at either end of the flight. Needs a reliable test and some co-ordinated thinking between nations but surely that's not beyond the wit of man.


It’s this kind of blue sky thinking that  seems beyond our esteemed experts and elected reps. It’s really quite sad.

A very well written article that even Johnson himself would struggle to dismiss without launching in to his customary bluff and bluster.

The key part of that article....

Is Johnson ready to face down the trade unions and explain that precise regulations governing reopened workplaces are impossible: every business, every space, staircase, production line is different, and “use your common sense” must be the limit of workable advice?

^

He has to be.

The state cannot keep paying teachers if the Unions refuse for schools to reopen in June.

Health and safety /employers insurance could prevent many returning to work.

Boris needs to stop the dithering and delaying and get the healthy younger people out and about and get the population anti-bodies built up.

This is the only way we can protect the old and vulnerable in the long run.

If Boris does not take action now to do this starting with getting schools back then eventually the old/vulnerable will go out before we have a way of blocking the infection spreading through herd immunity.

If this happens we will see death in this country like we have never seen before as the old/vulnerable will drop like flies.

It is simply not practical to keep the old/vulnerable locked up forever waiting for a vaccine that might never come.

70% of public don't want restrictions lifted
parents don't wants kids to go back to school
people clapping every thurs, we,re told essential workers are new hero,s deserve better pay,conditions
migrant essential workers should get equal uk rights,

why do the unions need facing down,they should be fighting for what the public wants,

if any right wing tory thinks workers ,pupils, should return to work in unsafe conditions,workplaces and essential workers don't deserve better pay,better working conditions, LETS BE HAVING YOU,GET YOURSELF ON TV AND TELL THE PUBLIC WHERE THEIR WRONBG

YOU SPINELESS PACK OF COOONTS,BE THE MIDDLE CLASSES PEERING THROUGH THE CURTAINS SHORTLY, LETS SEE THESE BEEN LABLED AS SCROUNGERS,FECKLESS MOANING ,LAZY KOOONTS

14 day lockdown after travel was implemented in Australia some time back - still early days then and people did not take it seriously and went outside anyway. Government then essentially took over all the 5 star hotels in cities and enforced mandatory quarantine in hotel rooms. Security on every floor and people not even allowed to go to the elevator let alone outside. Horrible experience for those people, but effective in stopping the spread and kept hotel staff working and the businesses functioning.

Surprised the UK are only just doing this.

1st time poster
09 May 20 14:22
Joined: 25 Dec 05
| Topic/replies: 39,409 | Blogger: 1st time poster's blog
70% of public don't want restrictions lifted
parents don't wants kids to go back to school
people clapping every thurs, we,re told essential workers are new hero,s deserve better pay,conditions
migrant essential workers should get equal uk rights,

why do the unions need facing down,they should be fighting for what the public wants,

^

And how do we, as a society, pay for this permanent lockdown?

national government required, forget about party politics, get the grown ups in. this is too important to be left to inexperienced power for powers sake politicians.

DONT NO ask the right tory,s in charge,
run massive defecit,s,
countries buy back their own debt and right it off,
everyhthings possible
scrap trident
scrap hs2
scrap Brexit
plenty of choices for the current right wing tory government to make,luckily their in power for 10 years to make them,

they,ll only be spending what they should have been spending in the last 10 years,
if we,d set off with the same infrastructure as germany we might have made different decisions

buying cheap means buying twice,always has done

Doris never faced down the RMT when he was Mayor.

He does not like conflict. Wants to be everyone's friend

RMT love doris ,he stuffed their pockets with £20 notes for 8 years

sunday tells you all you need to no about dorr=is
state address to tell you something you should have legally been told on thurs,and Scotland,wales,irish public already been told,he,s a coward avoiding questions and scrutiny ,joke of a pm

May 9, 2020 -- 3:23PM, therhino wrote:

14 day lockdown after travel was implemented in Australia some time back - still early days then and people did not take it seriously and went outside anyway. Government then essentially took over all the 5 star hotels in cities and enforced mandatory quarantine in hotel rooms. Security on every floor and people not even allowed to go to the elevator let alone outside. Horrible experience for those people, but effective in stopping the spread and kept hotel staff working and the businesses functioning. Surprised the UK are only just doing this.

That makes sense to me.

Besides the planes Doris and co want everyone now to cycle/walk to work,why? because enclosed spaces with crowds is a bad idea?

On the 21st of March the tubes/trains/buses were rammed,they let that happen then,were they stupid or just simply grossly incompetent?

Very interesting to see so many formerly dyed-in-the-wool nasties now condemning the formerly God like Doris and government in general. How quickly times change.

charlie surely whatever folks political leanings are, the very vast majority can begin to see we are being led through this by basically guessers and bluffers.bad ones at that

19
You would certainly hope so.

Any true patriot who loves their country shouldn't take that kind of sh ite from the people that are supposed to represent the people they serve, simply not good enough, the British people deserve better than that holy show.

CORONAVIRUS
How Johnson steeled himself to face Sir Keir Starmer
The empty benches weren’t the only reason this week’s PMQs were muted: the PM faced a rival that one cabinet minister compares to Tony Blair
Boris Johnson’s first PMQs with Sir Keir Starmer
Boris Johnson’s first PMQs with Sir Keir Starmer
JESSICA TAYLOR/UK PARLIAMENT
Francis Elliott
, Political Editor |
Oliver Wright
, Policy Editor |
Steven Swinford
, Deputy Political Editor
Saturday May 09 2020, 12.01am, The Times
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Boris Johnson awoke on Wednesday knowing that he had an appointment he could not delay again.

The previous week his office had left it late before telling Sir Keir Starmer that the prime minister would not be appearing in the Commons because Mr Johnson’s partner, Carrie Symonds, was about to give birth. The week before that, he had been recovering at Chequers from a life-threatening coronavirus infection.

With Ms Symonds and their new son, Wilfred, safely back in Downing Street the prime minister braced himself for initial contact with a new political enemy by going for a walk around St James’s Park just before 7am. In suit and tie, and followed by two close protection officers, he walked briskly up to Buckingham Palace and back as he took his state-sanctioned daily exercise.


Aides had a sense of foreboding: they had seen Sir Keir, the leader of the opposition, twice pick apart Dominic Raab, who deputised for Mr Johnson during his absence, at the dispatch box. It was clear that Mr Johnson should not try to bluster his way out of questions.

Sir Keir, meanwhile, was limbering up in the offices first used by David Cameron then adopted by Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn. Chris Ward, Sir Keir’s deputy chief of staff and the leader of his prime minister’s questions preparation team, put him through his paces.


As noon approached, Mr Johnson arrived in the Commons chamber early but found Sir Keir already waiting. In the strange “hybrid” parliament, where many MPs join proceedings remotely, the Labour leader sat alone on the opposition front bench while Mr Johnson stood behind the Speaker’s chair, waiting for a signal that PMQs was about to begin before taking his place. There was no roar of welcome from the small number of Tory MPs spaced widely behind and the exchanges between prime minister and leader of the opposition were stately.

Sir Keir extracted two key concessions from Mr Johnson: an admission that Britain had abandoned testing new cases because it did not have the capacity to keep pace with the epidemic, and that the spread of the infection in care homes was a matter of “bitter regret”.

Play Video
Johnson: data will inform next steps
The post-mortem back in No 10 that afternoon was sombre. It was clear to them that Wednesdays would no longer be a weekly semi-comic knockabout with a cartoon Marxist, as they had been with Mr Corbyn, but an altogether more testing affair.

The front page of The Daily Telegraph yesterday, on which the Labour leader urged Mr Johnson to honour the war-time generation on VE Day by getting to grips with the care home crisis, drove home the point. There was grudging admiration in Downing Street at the coup de théâtre. “It’s clear that this is a more professional operation,” one senior figure conceded yesterday.

Cabinet ministers looking beyond the crisis smell danger. “Starmer was impressive,” one said. “He has gone up a gear since he’s become leader. When he was doing the Europe job he was stunningly boring. His performances were dull and a little bit nervy.

“Now he seems much more comfortable. He’s got off to an undeniably good start and will make the other side of this argument in a way that doesn’t make people think he’s a Corbynite.

“He is in the Harold Wilson, Tony Blair mould of Labour leaders.”


Those on the Tory right worry that the government’s extraordinary economic intervention to help business to stay afloat will be politically far harder to unravel than it was to put in place. These rightwingers also make comparisons to the aftermath of the Second World War, where the public appetite for big state intervention led to politics being shifted decisively to the left of centre, and fear it could happen again.

“This is going to be the key political argument,” one right-wing cabinet minister said. “Do we open the economy up with trade like we planned before . . . or is there new pressure to protect jobs and become protectionist?

“Some people being furloughed will be working for businesses that have no chance of coming back. In the end the scheme was there to stop mass unemployment and the destruction of the economy. It was not there and cannot be there to stop the changes to the economy that will follow from the coronavirus. It is going to be a different economy with different demands.”




Another cabinet minister said the Tories had a “brutal summer” ahead, adding: “The aftermath could be hugely damaging. You’ll have people coming off the furloughing scheme who may not have jobs to go to. You’ll have the inevitable inquest into what went wrong.”

It’s with half an eye on that inquest that some members approached Thursday’s cabinet meeting with the sense that, in a reversal of the harlots’ prerogative, they have responsibility without power. “It’s a potemkin cabinet,” one said. “All the decisions have already been made.”

It was clear from the outset of the video conference that Mr Johnson had decided there were to be minimal changes to the lockdown, as he said he would proceed with “extreme caution”.

There was no disagreement over the need to go carefully, but there was a division over how specific to be on when easements should occur. Even this was expressed mostly in code. “The Irish model is the way to go,” one minister said, referring to Dublin’s five-phase plan with dates attached to each. “It’s sensible and detailed, it will give people confidence. My view is that if you give people dates and they’re far enough apart so that you can ensure the R is not turning against you, you can move to the next step. It will give people light at the end of the tunnel.”

There remains bafflement about why, if the level of R — or rate of reinfection — is to be made the guiding principle of policy, the scientific experts appear to be so vague when asked what it is.

“They don’t know what the R rate is,” one cabinet minister said. “Their best guess is between 0.5 and one. Oh great. It’s our key figure. It is all in the end a political decision rather than a scientific one. We will know in years to come whether Sweden got it right or whether Spain got it right.”


Initial results from an Office for National Statistics surveillance operation drawn from a panel of 10,000 households are due on Thursday. Initial results suggested that the operation showed the prevalence of the disease is between 0.2 and 0.6 per cent in the population. The ONS will consider expanding the sample size after an initial trial period that ends in about three weeks as it seeks to increase confidence. Some cabinet ministers believe that the operation is not being expanded quickly enough, however, given its importance to tracking the disease.

The Cabinet Office has told worried ministers that as testing increases so will data, allowing for a more sophisticated measure of R that will allow for accurate regional monitoring.

Downing Street is already pondering how and when to update the public, with some calling for a bi-weekly release of data shared at the Sage meetings.

This will be key to building public confidence, say Johnson’s allies, who claim cabinet ministers pressing for dates are missing the mood of a nervous public. Only by taking baby steps that are shown to be safe, they say, can the country be persuaded to take more decisive strides out of quarantine.

This government has not fallen between two stools

It has turned the stools upside down and impaled its population

So this thing isn't going away any time soon then

They ain't letting you go back to the old normal stop deluding yourselves

^ Exactly, we is all a bunch of coronavirus dodgers for the foreseeable.

I would say we are full stop

They want people to walk and cycle to work now... the end

why are the airlines bothering to get up in arms about this ? they can't seriously think any great numbers - certainly not enough to make flights economically viable - will be going anywhere in the next 2 or 3 months. this summer is already a write off

never mind 14 days quarantine who wants to jump through all sorts of other hoops at the airport ? not a great experience at the best of times. would think vast majority would rather wait a year or 2 until some sort of normality returns

May 9, 2020 -- 6:55PM, SontaranStratagem wrote:

I would say we are full stop They want people to walk and cycle to work now... the end

want us to be an  ls lowery painting.

May 10, 2020 -- 1:35PM, mafeking wrote:

why are the airlines bothering to get up in arms about this ? they can't seriously think any great numbers - certainly not enough to make flights economically viable - will be going anywhere in the next 2 or 3 months. this summer is already a write offnever mind 14 days quarantine who wants to jump through all sorts of other hoops at the airport ? not a great experience at the best of times. would think vast majority would rather wait a year or 2 until some sort of normality returns

Tell people they shouldn't do something, and they'll all do it.

Just look at all the spastics gallivanting around already.

plenty wanting to come this way

O ‘Dreary wants to start flights to Spain in July bu5 while on air they announced a 14 day quarantine!

You can’t  make this stuff up.

Clearly the fault if the scientists and experts? What was the last law a scientist made and enforced?

Deaths in care homes was always going to be a problem so what did the scientists do to prevent it? Oh that’s right it is not their job!

Spain announced any holidaymakers coming in must quarantine for 14 days..France will be popular!!!

Bookings for the eurotunnel route must be going bonkers!