Chit Chat
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
In the last NHS accounts, 2018-19, the cost of harm bill — the estimated claims bill incurred in one year — was approximately £9 billion.
In 2017, it was calculated that a one per cent pay rise for NHS staff required £500 million in funding. The cost of harm therefore equates to an 18 per cent pay rise — an increase the British public would no doubt support for nurses, if everyone could just stop suing them. And this is the tip of a legal iceberg. The estimated bill for all outstanding compensation claims racked up over the years comes in at £83 billion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8247433/If-love-NHS-suing-83billion-asks-MARTIN-SAMUEL.html
In 2017, it was calculated that a one per cent pay rise for NHS staff required £500 million in funding. The cost of harm therefore equates to an 18 per cent pay rise — an increase the British public would no doubt support for nurses, if everyone could just stop suing them. And this is the tip of a legal iceberg. The estimated bill for all outstanding compensation claims racked up over the years comes in at £83 billion.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8247433/If-love-NHS-suing-83billion-asks-MARTIN-SAMUEL.html
Show More
The question should be why the culture of blame & claim now exists whereby lawyers put litigious claims in respect of trvialities or minor injuries & the like - as the aticle says its the age of opportunism and people will take advantage; mistakes are made by NHS staff and there is neglience & malpractice but its too easy to make specious claims and easier to payout because of time; effort and of course the costs involved to defend the claim.
Disagree flush, we love the concept of the NHS. Certainly not all NHS workers are next to Saint like, mistakes are made and have to be paid for. Would you like treated by an error prone surgeon a less than able nurse(which sadly loads in practice).
The parasitic lawyer class are a factor, but a bigger factor is the unaccountable mugs who fight every case to the door of court before offering a fair settlement, or else go to court, maximising legal fees on both sides before having to pay both.
Lawyers' fees could be dramatically reduced if settlement offers were reasonable from the start and if lodgements were made into court early on but they almost never are. It's the same with insurance companies in non-medical cases too, they fight nearly every case and rarely make lodgements even though they know they are liable, meaning that the legal fees in a lot of cases are a multiple of the damages for the actual injury. I'm convinced insurance companies do this to maximise the amount of money they get in in premiums, as they get to invest this money for most of the year of cover. They say it's to discourage fraudulent claims, but fraudulent claims are a small %.
How did the NHS, a public health service, end up having debts of £13.5bn, which Hancock wrote off recently? That is baffling to me. How would the NHS generate money to pay this debt?
Lawyers' fees could be dramatically reduced if settlement offers were reasonable from the start and if lodgements were made into court early on but they almost never are. It's the same with insurance companies in non-medical cases too, they fight nearly every case and rarely make lodgements even though they know they are liable, meaning that the legal fees in a lot of cases are a multiple of the damages for the actual injury. I'm convinced insurance companies do this to maximise the amount of money they get in in premiums, as they get to invest this money for most of the year of cover. They say it's to discourage fraudulent claims, but fraudulent claims are a small %.
How did the NHS, a public health service, end up having debts of £13.5bn, which Hancock wrote off recently? That is baffling to me. How would the NHS generate money to pay this debt?
If you make a lodgement into court and the claimant doesn't beat that award before a Judge, then the claimant will not be able to recover his legal fees incurred from after the date the lodgement is made and will also have to pay the other side's legal costs out of his award.
You have insurance companies who know that the vlaue of an injury is say 20k, but they offer 5k, then 10k early on and every lawyer on the planet would advise against taking it and continuing to sue. The claimant eventually gets offered 18k and accepts it after 2 years of legal costs are racked up and the full costs of the claim including legal fees are more like 40k. All the insurance co has to do is lodge 20k or 21k in court and nearly every lawyer will advise to take it and not continuing to sue.
You have insurance companies who know that the vlaue of an injury is say 20k, but they offer 5k, then 10k early on and every lawyer on the planet would advise against taking it and continuing to sue. The claimant eventually gets offered 18k and accepts it after 2 years of legal costs are racked up and the full costs of the claim including legal fees are more like 40k. All the insurance co has to do is lodge 20k or 21k in court and nearly every lawyer will advise to take it and not continuing to sue.
Then the cost of the claim is doubled and the cost of premiums is twice as high and they turn around and blame parasitic lawyers. That's the reality.
Just put a simple sign up above the way in...
ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Job Done. fortunes saved
ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Job Done. fortunes saved
Frontline NHS staff?
From what I've seen they are absolute strs, wholly committed to their patients and ensuring their survival, putting in incredible shifts, in emotionally and physically gruelling conditions and I daresay some of the stories about lack of PPE must be true (suspecting the truth lies between what the government and various NHS 'talking heads' are telling us at the daily press briefings)
However.....
The NHS (as a healtchare system)?
The 'New Church for the 21st century, immune from any kind of criticism, rational debate or reform.
The MSM never question/scrutinise procurement, the biggest failure (over many years) of successive governments & quite bizarre considering the incredible buying power of the NHS (the fifth largest employer on the Planet!) & the vast quantities of equipment/supplies required daily/weekly/annually!
This is one of the obsession with our new national religion.
We need to decide what the NHS about?
Is it the government providing health care, where it makes the drugs, builds the equipment, etc or is it a national service providing the best health care possible regardless of where it comes from while ensuring it is free (well, taxpayer-funded) at the point of use?
I'll happily clap the frontline NHS workers tonight - but the NHS as an institution is a monolithic disaster, unreplicated by any other country in the world (just like the BBC in fact)
From what I've seen they are absolute strs, wholly committed to their patients and ensuring their survival, putting in incredible shifts, in emotionally and physically gruelling conditions and I daresay some of the stories about lack of PPE must be true (suspecting the truth lies between what the government and various NHS 'talking heads' are telling us at the daily press briefings)
However.....
The NHS (as a healtchare system)?
The 'New Church for the 21st century, immune from any kind of criticism, rational debate or reform.
The MSM never question/scrutinise procurement, the biggest failure (over many years) of successive governments & quite bizarre considering the incredible buying power of the NHS (the fifth largest employer on the Planet!) & the vast quantities of equipment/supplies required daily/weekly/annually!
This is one of the obsession with our new national religion.
We need to decide what the NHS about?
Is it the government providing health care, where it makes the drugs, builds the equipment, etc or is it a national service providing the best health care possible regardless of where it comes from while ensuring it is free (well, taxpayer-funded) at the point of use?
I'll happily clap the frontline NHS workers tonight - but the NHS as an institution is a monolithic disaster, unreplicated by any other country in the world (just like the BBC in fact)
I wonder how much is paid out to NHS staff suing their own hospital e.g. for slippages.
If you look at Google reviews for Doctor's surgeries maybe we are hypocrites ... they tend to be far lower than restaurants for example
"The only way xxx surgery to get 5 stars is to get rid of Dr XXX, she doesn’t greeting any one I don’t remember greeting me or smile, if she’s not happy with her job then give space to another doctor.
I am a new patient and I booked for first appointment with Dr xxx , it was very bad experience, she was like soldier in army, my health situation very sensitive and she must take serious action but unfortunately she did nothing
This surgery gets worse and worse and now it has a new practice manager who really does not care less about anyone who attends
Going to this surgery is a waste of time. Receptionist can be very rude when you book an appointment and let you off. Doctors are the most unhelpful they don't bother to treat you they just give an easy no treatment solution even if you need a treatment and make you feel uncomfortable discussing your problem and rushed apart from one doctor. Doctors are supposed to be patients first contact, but in this place regretfully it isn't."
"The only way xxx surgery to get 5 stars is to get rid of Dr XXX, she doesn’t greeting any one I don’t remember greeting me or smile, if she’s not happy with her job then give space to another doctor.
I am a new patient and I booked for first appointment with Dr xxx , it was very bad experience, she was like soldier in army, my health situation very sensitive and she must take serious action but unfortunately she did nothing
This surgery gets worse and worse and now it has a new practice manager who really does not care less about anyone who attends
Going to this surgery is a waste of time. Receptionist can be very rude when you book an appointment and let you off. Doctors are the most unhelpful they don't bother to treat you they just give an easy no treatment solution even if you need a treatment and make you feel uncomfortable discussing your problem and rushed apart from one doctor. Doctors are supposed to be patients first contact, but in this place regretfully it isn't."
Aviation v Healthcare (by Matthew Syed, imo the the smartest man I've come across on tv or in journalism)
Matthew Syed’s Black Box Thinking theory in aviation
Given the black box analogy, it’s no surprise Syed points to aviation as a trendsetter for the growth mindset.
He says: “There’s a recognition deep in the culture of the industry that even though they are smart and talented – and employ sensible protocols, procedures and behaviours – there’s a fundamental sense of the suboptimal in which they understand they’re not as good as they might be.
“Not because they lack intelligence but because the complexity of the phenomena. When you’re trying to keep a non-linear dynamic system straight, you can see why that warrants a mindset in which the professionals in the industry are always looking for learning opportunities.”
Syed said the number of “near-miss events” – the industry name for when pilots narrowly avoid collisions in mid-air or on the runway – occur very regularly but are openly and transparently recorded.
It means data is available so those involved can learn how to adapt processes and avoid similar mistakes from happening again.
“Second by second, minute by minute, hour by hour, the industry is learning the lessons to drive the dynamic process of change,” says Syed.
“What if, God forbid, a crash happens, the most serious form of system failure? If you’re anything like me it’s sometimes quite difficult to confront and interrogate our failures, particularly if you’re supposed to be smart, senior and competent.
“Aviation insists on having a mechanism that makes these failures data-rich – the mechanism being the black box.
“So the investigators of an accident can rescue the box from the rubble of an accident, investigate what went wrong and systems can be put in place to make sure the same mistake never happens again.”
He says the results of having such an adaptable organisation is that, while eight of the US Army’s 14 pilots – more than half – died in 1912, only one in every 17 million take-offs, while no major airlines crashed at all last year.
Syed adds: “Is it partly to do with the talent in the industry? Yes. But I’d suggest it’s also to do with this culture of continuous improvement and learning.”
Matthew Syed’s Black Box Thinking theory in healthcare
In healthcare, the most senior people are more talented than those in aviation, Syed believes – saying they often come from more expensive education and possess higher IQs.
But he says this is an industry that is prone to harbouring the fixed mindset as it deflects the opportunity to learn from the most serious issues.
“There’s something quite deep in the clinical culture, where you get to the top of the hierarchy where as a consultant, you don’t make mistakes,” he says.
“This sounds great but what if there’s a suboptimal – that’s to say something goes less well than it could have done?
“Is it fair to say that’s basically anything? You can get better at any performance-related dimension through time.”
The most serious form of suboptimality in healthcare, of course, is death.
But when a doctor talks the family of a deceased patient, Syed believes there’s a tendency towards self-justification and concealment.
Elaborating on self-justification, he says: “If I’m super-talented and typically get everything right, and then someone has died, my mindset is it can’t be anything to do with me – it must be an unavoidable death.
“The fixed mindset takes the sting out the mistake but obfuscates learning.”
Until recently, Syed says 45,000 people died every year in the US alone because of central line-associated bloodstream infections – which often occur during operations.
Senior doctors believed for decades these were unavoidable until a doctor carried out an investigation and found clinicians were missing a key step.
“Of course it’s not because they’re lazy or bad people, but because they’re busy and didn’t realise they had to make this step,” says Syed.
According to the Journal of Patient Safety, about 200,000 people die every year in the US due to preventable medical errors – making it the third biggest killer in the country.
Syed adds: “The problem in healthcare isn’t a lack of talent. The problem is when talented people are in the wrong mindset, their energy doesn’t go towards innovation and rational change.
“All too often, sometimes on a subconscious level, it goes to self-justification.”
Matthew Syed’s Black Box Thinking theory in aviation
Given the black box analogy, it’s no surprise Syed points to aviation as a trendsetter for the growth mindset.
He says: “There’s a recognition deep in the culture of the industry that even though they are smart and talented – and employ sensible protocols, procedures and behaviours – there’s a fundamental sense of the suboptimal in which they understand they’re not as good as they might be.
“Not because they lack intelligence but because the complexity of the phenomena. When you’re trying to keep a non-linear dynamic system straight, you can see why that warrants a mindset in which the professionals in the industry are always looking for learning opportunities.”
Syed said the number of “near-miss events” – the industry name for when pilots narrowly avoid collisions in mid-air or on the runway – occur very regularly but are openly and transparently recorded.
It means data is available so those involved can learn how to adapt processes and avoid similar mistakes from happening again.
“Second by second, minute by minute, hour by hour, the industry is learning the lessons to drive the dynamic process of change,” says Syed.
“What if, God forbid, a crash happens, the most serious form of system failure? If you’re anything like me it’s sometimes quite difficult to confront and interrogate our failures, particularly if you’re supposed to be smart, senior and competent.
“Aviation insists on having a mechanism that makes these failures data-rich – the mechanism being the black box.
“So the investigators of an accident can rescue the box from the rubble of an accident, investigate what went wrong and systems can be put in place to make sure the same mistake never happens again.”
He says the results of having such an adaptable organisation is that, while eight of the US Army’s 14 pilots – more than half – died in 1912, only one in every 17 million take-offs, while no major airlines crashed at all last year.
Syed adds: “Is it partly to do with the talent in the industry? Yes. But I’d suggest it’s also to do with this culture of continuous improvement and learning.”
Matthew Syed’s Black Box Thinking theory in healthcare
In healthcare, the most senior people are more talented than those in aviation, Syed believes – saying they often come from more expensive education and possess higher IQs.
But he says this is an industry that is prone to harbouring the fixed mindset as it deflects the opportunity to learn from the most serious issues.
“There’s something quite deep in the clinical culture, where you get to the top of the hierarchy where as a consultant, you don’t make mistakes,” he says.
“This sounds great but what if there’s a suboptimal – that’s to say something goes less well than it could have done?
“Is it fair to say that’s basically anything? You can get better at any performance-related dimension through time.”
The most serious form of suboptimality in healthcare, of course, is death.
But when a doctor talks the family of a deceased patient, Syed believes there’s a tendency towards self-justification and concealment.
Elaborating on self-justification, he says: “If I’m super-talented and typically get everything right, and then someone has died, my mindset is it can’t be anything to do with me – it must be an unavoidable death.
“The fixed mindset takes the sting out the mistake but obfuscates learning.”
Until recently, Syed says 45,000 people died every year in the US alone because of central line-associated bloodstream infections – which often occur during operations.
Senior doctors believed for decades these were unavoidable until a doctor carried out an investigation and found clinicians were missing a key step.
“Of course it’s not because they’re lazy or bad people, but because they’re busy and didn’t realise they had to make this step,” says Syed.
According to the Journal of Patient Safety, about 200,000 people die every year in the US due to preventable medical errors – making it the third biggest killer in the country.
Syed adds: “The problem in healthcare isn’t a lack of talent. The problem is when talented people are in the wrong mindset, their energy doesn’t go towards innovation and rational change.
“All too often, sometimes on a subconscious level, it goes to self-justification.”
More about it here ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmVCYqs3mko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmVCYqs3mko
It relates to the opening post, because he mentions in the talk the of the number of times the health industry are being sued leads to a blame culture, which makes it difficult to move to a growth mindset.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539