European Champion of Death and Incompetence.

Apr 18, 2020 -- 4:22PM, CLYDEBANK29 wrote:

Clyde..latest estimate is 7500+ Yes but my understanding is they have already counted 2500 of them

Iran is 50k plus.
They have horrendous problems there that they are trying to suppress.
I was listening to a programme on radio 4 about Iran a few weeks ago from inside the country.
A lot of the religious stuff is exacerbating the situation

juce..you love the Uk so much that even after almost continuous Tory rule you decide to relocate to a poor country who exist on a tawdry sex trade.
Therefore as a professional sex tourist you really should not comment about the UK.

thanks gooosey

I left England in 2007, very much disillusioned by a terrible Labour party and it's annihilation of the country

Apr 18, 2020 -- 4:30PM, sofiakenny wrote:

juce..you love the Uk so much that even after almost continuous Tory rule you decide to relocate to a poor country who exist on a tawdry sex trade.Therefore as a professional sex tourist you really should not comment about the UK.

About as ignorant of a statement as I've ever seen

All in all my nasty side wants China punished, or at least their government.

Yeh China needs to be taken to the cleaners!

And of course you still blame Labour!....come home juce your beloved Tory government need people like you..you sir a complete fud.

Apr 18, 2020 -- 4:39PM, sofiakenny wrote:

And of course you still blame Labour!....come home juce your beloved Tory government need people like you..you sir a complete fud.

If the shoe fits

I was meant to be spending the summer in England but not sure now
Sold up in Thailand too so I'm betwixt and between!

Face masks going for £14 a pop in Belarus on the black market, looks like a good business opportunity

Sold up?..and there was me thinking that farang were not allowed to own Thai property.

How come you are not so sure?..Boris at the helm.. airports open..in you come juicy!

jucel, whats the story in Thailand?  military hiding the numbers you think ?

I suggest that All those worried about the the handling of the Virus by the Uk

Foook off out of it , if and whens it over ,Just in case another Virus strikes ...

Close the door behind you ..

Are people not allowed to be worried about the handling of the virus in the UK ?
And what other topics are they not allowed to be worried about

He said: "We record everything. Deaths everywhere, not just in hospitals."

And that includes deaths suspected to be from COVID but not actually tested. More of those deaths are in care homes.
Dr De Keersmaecker said: "If we think the people are dying of COVID, we count it.
"Of course, that (accounts for) the higher level of dead people in our country.
"In most countries they don't do that. They only take deaths from the hospitals. We even have people dying at home."
The differences in recording COVID deaths make it hard to compare statistics between nations and could mean Belgium's figure is more realistic or even lower than data now suggests.
It could also mean the number of deaths from COVID in other nations is higher than thought.
Health ministry spokesman Emmanuel Andre recognises Belgium's way of recording deaths pushes the country to the top of the rankings but is unapologetic.
He argues it is the best way to get a true picture of what is really going on.
He said: "So the point of including suspected cases is to get the best picture of the level of this outbreak in our community, including outside the hospitals.

I suggest that All those worried about the the handling of the Virus by the Uk

Foook off out of it , if and whens it over ,Just in case another Virus strikes ...

Close the door behind you

silly koont

Nothing silly about it , Look at the thread header , Shirley you are all making plans to get out of the UK ...  ??

Perhaps Russia for you Geordie , a 9 hour wait in an ambulance to get into a Hospital and a Country full of

Shyte football teams , you would be right at home .........

Is that 1956 the year you were born or the Last time the TOON won something ??

Apr 18, 2020 -- 5:02PM, casemoney wrote:

I suggest that All those worried about the the handling of the Virus by the Uk Foook off out of it , if and whens it over ,Just in case another Virus strikes ...Close the door behind you ..

No Casemoney THE WHEEL WILL TURN!  we will wait it out, Jezza is gone now!

Holding the governments feet to the fire is the very essence of British democracy whoever is in power.  Casemoney you've dropped a clanger here!

Apparently it is no longer allowed.
Many forum contributors keep telling me this, and they get very upset when I contest their ruling.

Scrutiny is a bad word, a very bad word. They have said so.

How the government works

The king wanted to go fishing, and he asked the royal weather forecaster the forecast for the next few hours. The palace meteorologist assured him that there was no chance of rain.

So the king and the queen went fishing. On the way he met a man with a fishing pole riding on a donkey, and he asked the man if the fish were biting.

The fisherman said, "Your Majesty, you should return to the palace! In just a short time I expect a huge rain storm."

The king replied: "I hold the palace meteorologist in high regard. He is an educated and experienced professional. Besides, I pay him very high wages. He gave me a very different forecast. I trust him."

So the king continued on his way.

However, in a short time a torrential rain fell from the sky. The King and Queen were totally soaked. Furious, the king returned to the palace and gave the order to fire the meteorologist.

Then he summoned the fisherman and offered him the prestigious position of royal forecaster.

The fisherman said, "Your Majesty, I do not know anything about forecasting. I obtain my information from my donkey. If I see my donkey's ears drooping, it means with certainty that it will rain."

So the king hired the donkey.

And so began the practice of hiring dumb asses to work in influential positions of government. The practice is unbroken to this day.

Scott Correct there is Light at the end of the Tunnel for Labour ,Starmer done a decent job

with his Clear out ..... Long overdue ...

'So the king hired the donkey'

I think that's the same for most jobs in the UK though

Seems to me we are in much the same boat as most of the rest of Western Europe.

How Labour supporters - and it is always Labour supporters - on here see our situation as being handled way worse than others with much the same death tolls is hard to explain other than partisan party politics.

What would be different if Corbyn or Starmer were dealing with this ?

You would have had the same bunch of scientists telling them the same things that needed to be done and the same things that were not needed. And unless Corbyn or Starmer had decided to overrule them we would have had the same results.

Are The Daily Mail and The Telegraph Labour supporting newspapers ?

Are the mail and telegraph posting on here

Given that it is an anonymous forum, I can't be sure.

More seriously, you made a post having a dig at forum contributors you believe to be Labour supporters for questioning the response of the government to the COvID-19 pandemic.

I brought The Daily Mail and The Telegraph in to the equation as they too have questioned the response of the government.

Can you, therefore, please clarify if it is only the questioning on the forum that you are opposed to or does non-forum questioning also meet with your disapproval ?

I suppertime most deaths are been linked to this virus last week a former neighbour of mine died he was 81 and had been ill for sometime he was been cared for by his youngest son he never left the house and the son had also been self isolating due to the nature of his dad's health. He died of pneumonia after taking I'll at home yet his death as been put down to the virus this as raised questions by his son as to how on earth could his dad have contacted the virus in the first place?

Shameful that without full knowledge of the facts how some forum members seek to make political capital out of the deaths of UK citizens.
Thread after thread of mostly lies ans distortions all for the purpose of scoring cheap points.

"Seems to me we are in much the same boat as most of the rest of Western Europe."

Yes we are in the same boat as Spain & Italy but we didn't have to be, we had more time to act

Whats your area of expertise Cardinal? Medically that is.

Are suggesting that vital supplies could be easly and plenty fully obtained after the crisis in Italy and Spain?

The government has been led by medical and scientific experts since day 1.
A new virus with little data yet posters seem to think they could have handled it better.

I think the government should've followed the rest or Europe and lockdowned a week earlier.  It seemed obvious at the time, but the mistake was really ICL's more so than the government.  As we have a leader who doesn't like controlling the public, and the national advice from his experts more closely aligned to that mantra and a leader who also advocated BREXIT, then you are inclined to follow UK advice, rather than European surely.  There's every chance Corbyn or Starmer would've have followed Europe's experts rather than the UK's as their mantra is more control and closer alignment with Europe

ICL have admitted their early models were flawed

Whilst I think Labour could easily have lockdowned a week earlier, I think the level of competence in their cabinet is much weaker than the Tories.  Albeit now Starmer is in charge and their front bench is much stronger, if Labour had won the election, we'd have the most incompetent heads of state in modern times leading the response.

Difficult to attack anyone who got it wrong early days given the lack of data on the virus.

And the key role in the response is that of the Chancellor and the Treasury.  It's not just about the next 3 months, it's about the next 20 years.

Apr 18, 2020 -- 6:58PM, Angoose wrote:

Given that it is an anonymous forum, I can't be sure.More seriously, you made a post having a dig at forum contributors you believe to be Labour supporters for questioning the response of the government to the COvID-19 pandemic.I brought The Daily Mail and The Telegraph in to the equation as they too have questioned the response of the government.Can you, therefore, please clarify if it is only the questioning on the forum that you are opposed to or does non-forum questioning also meet with your disapproval ?

There has been plenty to question about the governments strategy. But as the article you posted the other day showed, the strategy has been determined by scientists. So it is puzzling why people on here critiquing it frame everything in terms of 'Tories'. Unless they really think Labour would have had better ideas than the scientists, or hired some better ones.

I don't need to be qualified in medicine to know this is just not good enough

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It's an anonymous internet forum, you are going to get a huge spectrum of views expressed in a wide variety of manners.
Some will represent what people really think, some will be deliberately mischievous.

There are a number of prominent posters on here who I have a lot of time for, but I don't agree with and dislike the manner in which their posts appear to illustrate your general point.   

That's just the way it is, we're never all going to agree on any given topic.

No accusations to you being levelled here, but there also appears to be some posters who would defend the government regardless of how they responded.

Maybe that would do that regardless, maybe they are driven to it by what they perceive to be Tory bashing posts.
Who knows.

We are all gamblers to different degrees, and we are all on this anonymous forum to express views and opinions.
Unlikely that this combination will solve very much in the greater scheme of things.

I have not been using inflammatory language either like calling Boris a killer or that he should be arrested or hoping he bought it when he was in intensive care.  Some have on here, not me.

No doubt testing has been **** in this country.  Early mistakes linked to ICL's herd immunity startegy, meant we weren't prepared imo.

I joined this form in 2008, never came here until corona arrived, never read anything on chitchat let alone post here.

It was Whitty who decided that testing would only be needed in hospitals wasn't it ?

He announced it at a press briefing, the decision will not have been his alone, they love committees in the worlds of science and medicine.
I'd imagine that it was a recommendation made by SAGE.

Yes, and SAGE were saying a lockdown would not be needed as late as March 12th but to some on here it is just evil Tories etc

Hancock must be gone and Bojo's coat is on a very shoogly peg.

Apr 18, 2020 -- 8:09PM, tobermory wrote:

Yes, and SAGE were saying a lockdown would not be needed as late as March 12th but to some on here it is just evil Tories etc

One might question why our experts apparently came to a different conclusion than every other expert in the world.

And of course ackiebigot defends the tory bampots who have made the situation far far worse than it should have been.
WORST IN EUROPE...absolutely disgraceful.

How are the UK the worst in Europe exactly?

We will have the highest death total in Europe from this virus.

Yes, maybe. But not the worst yet.

we might already be the worst as our figures don't include care home deaths which can be numbered in the thousands ...

DORIS thought 5 cobra meetings on to discuss the worst crisis in 80 years not worthy of an appearance to busy manning up the good ship Brexit, DORIS in single charge of the biggest shoite show in a generation, not all ban news good practice the Brexit shoite show to follow, ,
no truth in the rumour the rumour DORIS and the cabinet were refused planning  permission to open a WELK STALL,

The core of this thread is of course a total and utter lie, other countries in Europe of course have a worse per capita death rate.
But Sofia is a quite fantaical hater of the Tories. Interesting.

The Scottish NHS is devolved, Scotland has its own health minister and procures its own things. It has all its own policies.
It is to all intents and purposes, essentially a totally independent body.

It could have bought a huge stockpile of masks and so on and stored them. Didn't. IT DID NOT. No tories involved.
It could have had a pile of ventilators safely waiting such an emergency. It had done neither. NO TORIES INVOLVED.
It's struggling just as much as the English NHS to procure enough test kits and the above equipment, same as everyone else.
Scotland has it's own legal system and police and has been passing it's own laws throughout all this,
and enforcing them, it could have passed lockdown laws earlier. Didn't.

I'm sure if say the Scottish NHS was ahead on cancer targets, this would have been considered proof
of better management by ranting separatists. It always is.
But when the independently managed SNHS has issues in this, all the issues are somehow now big bad s
tupid English people at fault, eh? Because they are children.

You can't have it ****ing both ways. I mean you CANNOT.

Any ****er who points at any single historical target or measurement in a Scottish hospital and says
"aren't we better!" then choses a DIFFERENT target in the same (managed in Scotland) hospital
and because it is bad blames it on "English Tories" needs to look at themself.

But they are bigots, they never will.

If they voted Yes you'd have a great point.

JC attempting to defend the tories
You keep inferring that there is a political agenda from the left but can't disguise your own defence of anything & everything Tory despite evidence that they have misjudged things badly
The Government who are in charge should always be under scrutiny and more so in times of crisis; whilst whatever figures being used can be distorted the fact is the Government have performed extremely poorly at a critical time ... mistakes were made in preparation for this global pandemic and the performance of most ministers has been inadequate at best ... even now they are frightened to make decisive decisions because Johnson wants input and yet he has been absent from Cobra meetings when clear & decisive judgements were necessary  ... on a scale of achievement the Gov't can be measured at about 2/10  ..

The left is comprised entirely of intolerant bigots.
They block anybody who disagrees with them and they all sit together circle jerking in their pathetic little echo chambers

Apr 19, 2020 -- 11:07AM, geordie1956 wrote:

JC attempting to defend the tories You keep inferring that there is a political agenda from the left but can't disguise your own defence of anything & everything Tory despite evidence that they have misjudged things badlyThe Government who are in charge should always be under scrutiny and more so in times of crisis; whilst whatever figures being used can be distorted the fact is the Government have performed extremely poorly at a critical time ... mistakes were made in preparation for this global pandemic and the performance of most ministers has been inadequate at best ... even now they are frightened to make decisive decisions because Johnson wants input and yet he has been absent from Cobra meetings when clear & decisive judgements were necessary  ... on a scale of achievement the Gov't can be measured at about 2/10  ..

How difficult is it to understand that most of these issues are internal NHS problems.
Terribly managed by incompetent bureaucrats

The CEO shakin Stevens ought to be ashamed of himself

Got to love Geordie. I'm actually not making a pedantic point I'm making a real one.
If Ford hadn't made a bad forward strategey it would be absurd to attack General Motors.
The Scottish NHS is entirely devolved. This thread was AFAIK created by a Scottish poster living in Scotland who is under that umbrella trying to make political points about bad forward strategy against a health service to the south when his own management did no better.

Pointing the fact that "it's us when it's good" and "it's theirs when its bad" is PRECISELY the sort of **** Scottish nationalists come out with.
It needs to be pointed out at every turn.
In fact they try the reverse, the "Scottish when they lose British when they win" myth, that has been proved after studies to be nonsense.

Herro hansum man you wan sucky sucky?...oh no no sucky no sucky you disease dirty farang.

Apr 19, 2020 -- 10:53AM, Just Checking wrote:

The core of this thread is of course a total and utter lie, other countries in Europe of course have a worse per capita death rate.But Sofia is a quite fantaical hater of the Tories. Interesting.The Scottish NHS is devolved, Scotland has its own health minister and procures its own things. It has all its own policies.It is to all intents and purposes, essentially a totally independent body.It could have bought a huge stockpile of masks and so on and stored them. Didn't. IT DID NOT. No tories involved.It could have had a pile of ventilators safely waiting such an emergency. It had done neither. NO TORIES INVOLVED.It's struggling just as much as the English NHS to procure enough test kits and the above equipment, same as everyone else.Scotland has it's own legal system and police and has been passing it's own laws throughout all this, and enforcing them, it could have passed lockdown laws earlier. Didn't.I'm sure if say the Scottish NHS was ahead on cancer targets, this would have been considered proof of better management by ranting separatists. It always is.But when the independently managed SNHS has issues in this, all the issues are somehow now big bad stupid English people at fault, eh? Because they are children.You can't have it ****ing both ways. I mean you CANNOT.Any ****er who points at any single historical target or measurement in a Scottish hospital and says "aren't we better!" then choses a DIFFERENT target in the same (managed in Scotland) hospital and because it is bad blames it on "English Tories" needs to look at themself.But they are bigots, they never will.

Haven't a clue what this is about. Last time I looked Scotland is part of the UK.

In fact to extend the point to its natural fullfillment, most points Sofia could make against the "Tories" could be made against the SNP government.

You'll note he's never factual in his rants, and never actually talks about anything in Scotland who have followed the same pattern.

Oh and before anyone starts, don't rewrite history with bizarre hindsight. It's tiresome.

Apr 19, 2020 -- 11:16AM, Just Checking wrote:

Got to love Geordie. I'm actually not making a pedantic point I'm making a real one.If Ford hadn't made a bad forward strategey it would be absurd to attack General Motors.The Scottish NHS is entirely devolved. This thread was AFAIK created by a Scottish poster living in Scotland who is under that umbrella trying to make political points about bad forward strategy against a health service to the south when his own management did no better.Pointing the fact that "it's us when it's good" and "it's theirs when its bad" is PRECISELY the sort of **** Scottish nationalists come out with.It needs to be pointed out at every turn.In fact they try the reverse, the "Scottish when they lose British when they win" myth, that has been proved after studies to be nonsense.

What are you on about?

So don't blame the Tories but blame the Scots for exactly the same mistakes the Tories made. OK

Apr 19, 2020 -- 11:19AM, Just Checking wrote:

In fact to extend the point to its natural fullfillment, most points Sofia could make against the "Tories" could be made against the SNP government.You'll note he's never factual in his rants, and never actually talks about anything in Scotland who have followed the same pattern.Oh and before anyone starts, don't rewrite history with bizarre hindsight. It's tiresome.

Is it just me or do you seem to have a mentally unhealthy issue with Scotland? You appear to be trying to force it in every thread, irrespective of the topic.

So this incompetent deathly worst in Europe is the fault of the SNP?...give yer heid a shake JC ya raving nutter.

PP your ignorance is your own problem. Not surprised you're trying to argue against it in your laughable "Not A Scottish Indy Supporter" thing though.
The Scottish NHS is entirely devolved. It has NHS in it, but apart from that it's pretty much like the Belgian NHS to the English NHS.

PP Some of us know what an Astroturfer is.

Apr 19, 2020 -- 11:22AM, Just Checking wrote:

PP your ignorance is your own problem. Not surprised you're trying to argue against it in your laughable "Not A Scottish Indy Supporter" thing though.The Scottish NHS is entirely devolved. It has NHS in it, but apart from that it's pretty much like the Belgian NHS to the English NHS.

I am saying that you appear to have an obsession with Scotland that is totally irrelevant to this thread.

I hate to keep posting as posts one after the other are into the sad mentalist category, but I'll summarise it this way:
"If the Scottish government takes credit for a devolved NHS being better in ONE area, they cannot blame a failure in the same NHS they manage on someone who isn't involved just because it SUITS them". Stick it on a Meme.

Apr 19, 2020 -- 11:31AM, Just Checking wrote:

I hate to keep posting as posts one after the other are into the sad mentalist category, but I'll summarise it this way:"If the Scottish government takes credit for a devolved NHS being better in ONE area, they cannot blame a failure in the same NHS they manage on someone who isn't involved just because it SUITS them". Stick it on a Meme.

You are obsessed.

He has probably started a wee bit too early on whatever his alcoholic drink is today..must be blootered.

"I am saying that you appear to have an obsession with Scotland that is totally irrelevant to this thread. "
No, you are the Angoose of irrelevance, Mr Astroturf.
1. The OP is AFAIK Scottish,
2. He is talking about an issue that involves Scotland. Err.
I like it that when someone who likely supports political party is X trying to score points on political party Y, it should be shown up that party X and Y have the same polices, or indeed X is worse.
PP you're rumbled btw. Long ago.

Apr 19, 2020 -- 11:38AM, Just Checking wrote:

"I am saying that you appear to have an obsession with Scotland that is totally irrelevant to this thread. "No, you are the Angoose of irrelevance, Mr Astroturf.1. The OP is AFAIK Scottish, 2. He is talking about an issue that involves Scotland. Err.I like it that when someone who likely supports political party is X trying to score points on political party Y, it should be shown up that party X and Y have the same polices, or indeed X is worse.PP you're rumbled btw. Long ago.

??? You need to go and have a cup of tea, go for a walk, relax.

And I am afraid I really haven't got a clue what the astroturf reference is.

SK: It's a totally fair point.
- Be careful when aiming that your "point" might be logically hitting somewhere closer to home. You certainly aren't.
PP: Google it. Seriously.
I'm not your keeper.

JC...The UK will exit this with the highest death rate in Europe and it's the SNP's fault?..
I'm sure if you were asked who is the more competent leader Wee Nicky or Boris  you would probably vote for Buller.

You are not anyones keeper but you clearly have issues that perhaps it might be an idea to seek help for.

Astroturfing. ... Astroturfing is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message or organization (e.g., political, advertising, religious or public relations) to make it appear as though it originates from and is supported by grassroots participants.

Astroturfing - Wikipedia

I still don't get it, sorry.

Be careful, you'll be accused of being a troll next.

And whatever you do, don't ask him if it is best medical practice to reuse a single use surgical gown.

Who's fault is it that the public vote for celebrities (Boris) and ideologists with very limited ability (Corbyn), rather than base their decisions on intellect and competence.  How much does social media and the media in general play, in the trashing of experts, and in misinformation.  Style Over Substance. argument by slogan, cliché thinking or thought-terminating cliché.

Politics is polluting this thread and it has polluted the effective handling of this crisis. Politicians should have little or nothing to do with how it's handled. The scientists should be making all the decisions and telling the politicians or relevant bodies what to do, what they need etc.

Politicians mainly have no area of expertise, other than being good at lying, dodging direct questions, manipulating people to suit themselves and climbing the ladder in the filthy game that is politics. If they had any special talents, they wouldn't be politicians. The talented people in their class in private school work in the private sector or for themselves. Politicians make a career on the fact that they have connections to them.

Put the politics to one side. There is absolutely no way these mugs should have anything to do with the handling of this. Completely out of their depth and deserving of huge criticism.

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Love how Cardinal has moved from posting pictures of leftie articles to pictures of fake articles of others.

Honestly at least Trollgoose TRIES to make a coherent point sometimes and I have some iota of respect, but posting facebook leftie fake memes and "journalist opinion as fact" is just tragic.

must be great trying to defend these lying tories.


hope you are well paid for the way you end up looking

the tories start every briefing with a party political broadcast of lies

then tories say dont bring politics into it ...


lol

Yeah the Sunday Times last night, noted left wing rag

No fictitious tweet, he deleted 4 days later but it was recorded by many and the article is right here


https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2020/02/daniel-hannan-alarmism-doom-mongering-panic-and-the-coronavirus-we-are-nowhere-near-a-1919-style-catastrophe.html

Just Checking EXPOSED AGAIN!

Apr 18, 2020 -- 4:10PM, sofiakenny wrote:

Last time I looked Iran was not in Europe.

Iranians are in Europe

Even the right wing Financial Times say total deaths over 40k...these Tory tw*ts have a lot of blood on their hands.

Apr 19, 2020 -- 1:18PM, Cardinal Scott wrote:

Yeah the Sunday Times last night, noted left wing rag No fictitious tweet, he deleted 4 days later but it was recorded by many and the article is right herehttps://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2020/02/daniel-hannan-ala... Checking EXPOSED AGAIN!

Quite bamboozled what JC was thinking with that latest post of his.

I mean, it would've taken him less than a minute to verify that it wasn't a fake facebook meme.

...Quite tragic though for Hannan that his authentic tweets are considered leftie facebook smear memes by even people who might generally be somewhat sympathetic towards the tories.