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18 Apr 20
14:38
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Date Joined:
25 Jun 06
Given this "bombshell" statement today, surprised the virologists of Chit Chat aren't all over it.
Of course it doesn't mean there is NO immunity. I'm not a virologist, though I did know someone who was a Virgo. And I know an Aries with very strong opinions.
But I do know vaccines are basically a weak way of giving you the immunity you get by surviving a real infection by exposing your immune system to a weak safe version of a virus, and my understanding was that the real infection was BETTER at doing that than a vaccine. So surely, unless I'm missing something, that makes me think it would torpedo vaccines? I.e. why would a weak knock off version of a virus better train an immune system than the real thing.
So, if both of the above are true .. well I'm buying an Island. I've already got the lifetimes supply of toilet paper and pasta.
Of course it doesn't mean there is NO immunity. I'm not a virologist, though I did know someone who was a Virgo. And I know an Aries with very strong opinions.
But I do know vaccines are basically a weak way of giving you the immunity you get by surviving a real infection by exposing your immune system to a weak safe version of a virus, and my understanding was that the real infection was BETTER at doing that than a vaccine. So surely, unless I'm missing something, that makes me think it would torpedo vaccines? I.e. why would a weak knock off version of a virus better train an immune system than the real thing.
So, if both of the above are true .. well I'm buying an Island. I've already got the lifetimes supply of toilet paper and pasta.
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Hardly a bombshell. Unless, of course, you have the evidence hidden in your cupboard along with your macaroni and Andrex.
If vaccines don't work and herd immunity won't work this is about the biggest bombshell that could possibly be dropped. FFS.
Could well be the case with young people, whose systems clear out the virus by other means than antibodies.
Could be that you don't become immune in the sense of never catching or suffering from the virus again, but your body does recognize it, and deals with it at the coughing-and-feeling-lousy stage rather than the later unable-to-breathe stage.
What I should do is investigate this before offering an opinion, but I wouldn't do that if the pubs were still open and we were discussing it there, so I'm not prepared to do so online either.
We have to retain some semblance of normal life.
Could be that you don't become immune in the sense of never catching or suffering from the virus again, but your body does recognize it, and deals with it at the coughing-and-feeling-lousy stage rather than the later unable-to-breathe stage.
What I should do is investigate this before offering an opinion, but I wouldn't do that if the pubs were still open and we were discussing it there, so I'm not prepared to do so online either.
We have to retain some semblance of normal life.
JC - the bottom line is we don't know (yet).
Based on what I've read, it is likely there will be at least some short to medium term immunity but even if there were not, this wouldn't necessarily mean an effective vaccine could not be produced.
But, as I said, we don't know.
Based on what I've read, it is likely there will be at least some short to medium term immunity but even if there were not, this wouldn't necessarily mean an effective vaccine could not be produced.
But, as I said, we don't know.
evidence (NOUN)
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid
The statement has been made by scientists, they have provided a professional opinion, based on data, that there is no evidence to support an assertion that people who have recovered from COVID-19 have immunity to the disease.
They have NOT claimed that people who have recovered from coronavirus have no immunity to the disease.
Can you understand the distinction JC, can you
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid
The statement has been made by scientists, they have provided a professional opinion, based on data, that there is no evidence to support an assertion that people who have recovered from COVID-19 have immunity to the disease.
They have NOT claimed that people who have recovered from coronavirus have no immunity to the disease.
Can you understand the distinction JC, can you
"There is no evidence that blood tests to detect Covid-19 antibodies can show whether a person has immunity or is no longer at risk of becoming re-infected, according to the World Health Organisation (WHO)."
Angoose I know you have no life other than posting here all day but would you mind shuffling off and joining the other left wing trolls in the ignore file, there's a dear, I really can't be arsed.
So often the response of those who are unable or unwilling to engage in evidence based debate.
Angoose you are now following me around trying to start petty arguments as you literaly have nothing better to do.
It's the very definition of a troll.
Let's review the news headlines.
Angoose:
"They have NOT claimed that people who have recovered from coronavirus have no immunity to the disease."
Sky:
"Coronavirus: Currently 'no evidence' that COVID-19 survivors have immunity, WHO warns "
Telegraph:
"No evidence that people who have survived coronavirus have immunity, says World Health Organisation "
Mirror:
"WHO warns there is 'no evidence' coronavirus patients who recover have immunity"
ITV:
"'No evidence' people who have survived coronavirus have immunity, WHO warns"
etc etc etc..
It's the very definition of a troll.
Let's review the news headlines.
Angoose:
"They have NOT claimed that people who have recovered from coronavirus have no immunity to the disease."
Sky:
"Coronavirus: Currently 'no evidence' that COVID-19 survivors have immunity, WHO warns "
Telegraph:
"No evidence that people who have survived coronavirus have immunity, says World Health Organisation "
Mirror:
"WHO warns there is 'no evidence' coronavirus patients who recover have immunity"
ITV:
"'No evidence' people who have survived coronavirus have immunity, WHO warns"
etc etc etc..
You seem more pompous and irritating than usual today Angoose, piles?
Here's a chilling thought, just to brighten your day..
what if the virus once defeated by a hosts immune system, simply retreats and lies dormant for many months, only to return stronger (stronger strain, or worse - mutated to be more deadly) next time ?
what if the virus once defeated by a hosts immune system, simply retreats and lies dormant for many months, only to return stronger (stronger strain, or worse - mutated to be more deadly) next time ?
I'm no virologist, but surely to have evidence they have immunity you'd need to give someone who had the virus. the virus again under laboratory conditions.
It's a bit like saying there is no evidence their isn't human life on another planet somewhere in the cosmos.
It's a bit like saying there is no evidence their isn't human life on another planet somewhere in the cosmos.
JC, where do they claim that people who have recovered from coronavirus have no immunity to the disease ?
I asked you if you understood the distinction between claiming that there is no evidence of immunity for patients who have recovered from the virus and claiming that people who have recovered from coronavirus have no immunity to the disease.
You appear to have failed to grasp that distinction.
I asked you if you understood the distinction between claiming that there is no evidence of immunity for patients who have recovered from the virus and claiming that people who have recovered from coronavirus have no immunity to the disease.
You appear to have failed to grasp that distinction.
Apr 18, 2020 -- 3:31PM, CLYDEBANK29 wrote:
I'm no virologist, but surely to have evidence they have immunity you'd need to give someone who had the virus. the virus again under laboratory conditions.It's a bit like saying there is no evidence their isn't human life on another planet somewhere in the cosmos.
And that is exactly the nature of the clinical trials that are and need to take place.
In terms of human life on another planet you'd be working on the assumption there isn't until evidence existed that there was. In terms of the virus you'd be looking for evidence that it didn't give immunity.
Yes clydebank the lack of evidence is of course not proof that something doesn't exist.
I.e. There is no evidence of God but it doesn't mean there is no God, as a classic example.
Another classic is "If a man speaks in the forest and there is no woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?"
But it's surely worrying that months and months into this, they are saying that.
A damn sight more worrying than "it looks like most people develop immunity but we're not sure what the % is".
I.e. There is no evidence of God but it doesn't mean there is no God, as a classic example.
Another classic is "If a man speaks in the forest and there is no woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?"
But it's surely worrying that months and months into this, they are saying that.
A damn sight more worrying than "it looks like most people develop immunity but we're not sure what the % is".
saddo
You seem more pompous and irritating than usual today Angoose, piles?
--
Yip he's becoming more and more transparently desperate isn't he :)
You seem more pompous and irritating than usual today Angoose, piles?
--
Yip he's becoming more and more transparently desperate isn't he :)
JC, unable to answer some basic questions on this and other threads, jumps on the abuse bandwagon, joining his fellow abusers.
You have many options available, including engaging in constructive debate, ignoring me or blocking me.
Instead, you go for the easy option of abuse. No surprises there.
You have many options available, including engaging in constructive debate, ignoring me or blocking me.
Instead, you go for the easy option of abuse. No surprises there.
Platini 18 Apr 20 14:31 Joined: 20 Dec 02 | Topic/replies: 21,959 | Blogger: Platini's blog
Here's a chilling thought, just to brighten your day..
what if the virus once defeated by a hosts immune system, simply retreats and lies dormant for many months, only to return stronger (stronger strain, or worse - mutated to be more deadly) next time ?
All RNA viruses mutate. COVID-19 is mutating now.
Seasonal flu mutates and does so faster than COVID-19. A mutated form of the virus is likely to become LESS aggressive.
Also, mutation probably doesn't prevent us from developing a short to medium term immunity nor does it mean we can't produce a vaccine.
Here's a chilling thought, just to brighten your day..
what if the virus once defeated by a hosts immune system, simply retreats and lies dormant for many months, only to return stronger (stronger strain, or worse - mutated to be more deadly) next time ?
All RNA viruses mutate. COVID-19 is mutating now.
Seasonal flu mutates and does so faster than COVID-19. A mutated form of the virus is likely to become LESS aggressive.
Also, mutation probably doesn't prevent us from developing a short to medium term immunity nor does it mean we can't produce a vaccine.
There is much work globally to find the holy grail of vaccines i.e. a universal vaccine
Interest in such a vaccine has, understandably, increased of late, as has funding.
Interest in such a vaccine has, understandably, increased of late, as has funding.
IAWN, that was actually going to be my next question
If these viruses are fairly intelligent, you might think that they evolve/learn to become less aggressive on the next mutations, so that they would be less likely to kill their host (and so, survive)
interesting stuff.
If these viruses are fairly intelligent, you might think that they evolve/learn to become less aggressive on the next mutations, so that they would be less likely to kill their host (and so, survive)
interesting stuff.
Indeed. Viruses do kill but are not genetically programmed to do so.
There's no intelligence in viruses. It's just that, as you say, if they mutate to become more lethal, they quickly run out of hosts, so disappear. The less lethal mutations survive.
There is no teleology in evolution.
There is no teleology in evolution.
Cheers SFBNW, Richard Dawkins couldn't have explained that any better. 
There are a number of different strains of the RNA they are testing for already.
3 strains already.
3 strains already.
Not being funny but I am not sure that statement is correct IT. As for evidence about antibodies,evidence whether there is evidence or not of immunity, its all very subjective atm. There is a lot of misinformation and bad interpretation of what what actual tangible facts there is about sars-cov2 in circulation. You only need to look at some of the total bullshit some in the MSM are propagating as stats on just about every aspect of this debacle, its clear we have problems in this world communicating basic information in an understandable concept.Its sick. It needs addressed and it needs sorted ASAP. But it will only get worse imvho sadly. The truth is out there....
I just brought a thread I posted a few days back on the subject of vaccine research to the top of the forum.
A long but worthwhile read.
A long but worthwhile read.
When a coin is lying flat on the ground and i see heads, i have no evidence that the flip side is also not heads..
Even a two year could understand.
Even a two year could understand.
A supposedly leading doctor on the who panel has just been sky news stating the evidence points to no immunity from catching the virus. If that is the case they may as well lift lockdown now as there is no vaccine and no sane exit plan at all
So knowingly sending many of the population to a certain death is the answer ?
Its the only answer as we cant stay holed up forever- what do you propose, self isolation in the cupboard till death?
Rank Blood Type World Population (%)
1 O positive 38.67
2 A positive 27.42
3 B positive 22.02
4 AB positive 5.88
5 O negative 2.55
6 A negative 1.99
7 B negative 1.11
8 AB negative 0.36
1 O positive 38.67
2 A positive 27.42
3 B positive 22.02
4 AB positive 5.88
5 O negative 2.55
6 A negative 1.99
7 B negative 1.11
8 AB negative 0.36
What about examining mitigating measures that would seek to minimise the potential for the virus to spread from one human to another.
Let's imagine that knowledge on how the virus spreads expands such that we can have humans in the same environment but with a significantly reduced chance that an undiagnosed carrier of the virus will pas the virus to another.
This could be through protective clothing, continued social distancing, or other measures in combination.
Let's also imagine that a test can be made available that provides a high degree of certainty as to whether a patient is carrying the virus even before they display symptoms. This test could even be in a format similair to a breathalser.
How long also of this would take to develop, I have no idea.
But one thing that is clear is that the way we go about our lives will change.
Let's imagine that knowledge on how the virus spreads expands such that we can have humans in the same environment but with a significantly reduced chance that an undiagnosed carrier of the virus will pas the virus to another.
This could be through protective clothing, continued social distancing, or other measures in combination.
Let's also imagine that a test can be made available that provides a high degree of certainty as to whether a patient is carrying the virus even before they display symptoms. This test could even be in a format similair to a breathalser.
How long also of this would take to develop, I have no idea.
But one thing that is clear is that the way we go about our lives will change.
I found the CURE
Brush my teeth and dont rinse
Had the virus and havent passed to anyone
Viola
As the French say
PS I do smoke though!!!
Brush my teeth and dont rinse
Had the virus and havent passed to anyone
Viola
As the French say
PS I do smoke though!!!
You know I just looked back at Trollgoose here, my opening post is, line 2:
"Of course it doesn't mean there is NO immunity.", clearly indicating that I understand what "no evidence" means.
Then I get this predictably long winded patronising up his own bottom sh1te:
Angoose
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid
The statement has been made by scientists, they have provided a professional opinion, based on data, that there is no evidence to support an assertion that people who have recovered from COVID-19 have immunity to the disease.
They have NOT claimed that people who have recovered from coronavirus have no immunity to the disease.
Can you understand the distinction JC, can you
--
And he denies being a troll. I'm glad to see others can see it though. Quite heartening :)
"Of course it doesn't mean there is NO immunity.", clearly indicating that I understand what "no evidence" means.
Then I get this predictably long winded patronising up his own bottom sh1te:
Angoose
the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid
The statement has been made by scientists, they have provided a professional opinion, based on data, that there is no evidence to support an assertion that people who have recovered from COVID-19 have immunity to the disease.
They have NOT claimed that people who have recovered from coronavirus have no immunity to the disease.
Can you understand the distinction JC, can you
--
And he denies being a troll. I'm glad to see others can see it though. Quite heartening :)
Took you a long time to come up with that bombshell response.
Surely infected people that were asymptomatic wouldn't matter if they were re-infected again with covid. Thus making a vaccine for them redundant
Well no .. if you don't have symptoms you can still be infecting other people and you apparently can be spreading it for a day or two before you show symptoms even if you get them. So well depends what you mean. From THEIR point of view it doesn't matter so much.
What's the picture of, how you'd imagine Lemmy would look like after 3 months of couch Isolation and a fridge full of pies?
What's the picture of, how you'd imagine Lemmy would look like after 3 months of couch Isolation and a fridge full of pies?
The simple answer to the Thread Title - and Opening Post is ...
We will know When/IF people proven to have been Previously Infected - and were symptom displayers - start to turn up at hospital for a Second Time.
We will know When/IF people proven to have been Previously Infected - and were symptom displayers - start to turn up at hospital for a Second Time.
We could of course actually do some scientific experiments to test all these hypotheses to test what exactly is going on rather than guessing.
so what results did they get when they re-tested hundreds of people who had the virus a couple of months ago ? they couldn't have all been negative or were they ?? or is this a seasonal thing ?
or is this a seasonal thing ?
Tory supporting Times with an unambiguous headline.
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