Just to play devil's advocate

Yes but perhaps it just shows that SD is working , I was surprised that before screens etc were put in ,there was not a problem among shop staff
..

I hope that is the case case????

Haven't got the answers casemoney. But I think it's fourteen bus drivers to die so far to this virus.

When was the last time you read in the news that someone had died that wasn't because of coronavirus?

Why is it that when they report these deaths they always say that they tested positive for coronavirus?

Does that mean coronavirus killed them?

Not to me, it doesn't.

‘Covid 19 related deaths’ is another phrase used. Ambiguous.

Apr 13, 2020 -- 8:04PM, bigmo wrote:

When was the last time you read in the news that someone had died that wasn't because of coronavirus?

Yesterday, Stirling Moss.

It's people who have died in hospital who have tested positive for covid 19.

Excess deaths are estimated at 33%. Meaning 67% of those who died in hospital after testing possible would have died inside a year without the virus.

I feel sorry for those shop workers who if they had a choice would stay home.while the shop/supermarket is open they are expected to work or presumably they wouldn’t get paid

Well done Angoose you managed to find about the only one. Keep searching.

It's disappointing that the London Stabathon is not going to break last years record.
Machete salesmen bonuses have been shelved.

Air pollution is the biggest environmental threat to health in the UK, with between 28,000 and 36,000 deaths a year attributed to long-term exposure. There is strong evidence that air pollution causes the development of coronary heart disease, stroke, respiratory disease and lung cancer, and exacerbates asthma.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/public-health-england-publishes-air-pollution-evidence-review

How many lives are being saved or prolonged by reduced air pollution? Net gain perhaps.

#lockdowneveryyear

Cider

Any link to your data regarding excess deaths? Are we talking about the past week or a different timescale?

BTW an excess death of 33% does not mean that 67% of people who died would have died within a year , does it.

You may have made a genuine mistake, in which case so be it. However it is worth being careful regarding information/ misinformation on any forum/ social media site.

Why is it that when they report these deaths they always say that they tested positive for coronavirus?

Does that mean coronavirus killed them?

Not to me, it doesn't


Bigmo - you are right, this will be true in some cases.  Tbf, this has been stated in various news sources.

Bigmo


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52263959

A few in my family are/were Chelsea fans so had a few stories about Bonetti - he was a bit before my time.

Here is a basic chart compiled form ONS data released earlier today for weekly death registration sin England and Wales.
It shows the weekly average for deaths registered for the previous five years alongside the weekly figures for 2020.

The most recent week is Week 14 which ended on 3 April.

The official number of COVID-19 deaths in the whole of the UK from week 10 to week 15 is as follows :
2  9  166  582  2,846  5,553   These figures are for deaths in hospitals only.

For the three days of Week 16 reported to date, the number is 2,371. 

NHS now acknowledges that many are on their way out anyway, due to age/underlying health, now restricting intensive care for those it considers lost causes.

How many is many ?

Who knows?

Seems a very strange statement from NHS Potlis .

Don't suppose you have a link to the bit where NHS acknowledged that "many" are on their way out anyway.

A very vague term for a health service to use when talking about such a sensitive issue.

And why would you put 'lost causes' in intensive care?

Define a lost cause. Johnson could quite easily be described as a lost cause if you wish to include honesty and morality within the definition.

What a ridiculous reply, well done.

I'd love to know more about the "on their way out" bit. The whole "died WITH cv, but maybe not necessarily BECAUSE of it" is such obvious obfuscation from the government who are doing their damnedest to keep the numbers down to save them being blamed for the weeks of inaction at the start of this.


So yeah, what's on their way out. For instance, my mum's best friend has been in an induced coma for over two weeks now. Doctors still caring for her but they've tried a couple of times to wake her and bring her up but she's just not been able. To be honest, it doesn't look great. Now, she's about 75, smoked most of her life but not for the last 10 years or so. Will she count as on her way out because of that? Because trust me, she was fit and well. Still working in a school, going to Benidorm three to four times a year, mentally and physically active.

Are we to just dismiss her and say "well she'd probably have died in the next 1/5/15 years anyway" so it doesn't really matter?

I understand the NHS has had to make some very difficult choices and that if they've got one ventilator, but two patients they will prioritise the one with the better chance of recovery but that's a bit different to just letting people die.

And those are the tough choices that doctors and nurses make every day, the current situation resulting in a higher number of choices to be made.

Hence the lockdown, a very necessary attempt to minimise the additional number of such choices.

Apr 14, 2020 -- 11:55AM, saddo wrote:

What a ridiculous reply, well done.

Educate me them, define lost cause.

Mexico, I didn't say it was a NHS statement , just me reading between the lines of the press release, Financial Times.

it's a points system, 8 points and your out, apparently.

NHS scoring calculator

Age
65 - 70 = 3

71 - 75 = 4

76 - 80 = 5

80+.   = 6

+3 for frailty
+3 other symptoms , blood pressure , lung disease and so on.

if you take hancock at his word there,s
2500 spare ventilators
2500 spare icu beds
4000beds available at nightingale hospital and 4/5 other field hospitals been built

why arnt people who are  dying at home,in care homes using this capacity,we,re supposed to be at near the peak why are we bragging on tv .the nhs is coping weve got 2,500 spare icu beds, who are we keeping these spare beds for,
people dying outside of hospital whilst weve got 2500 icu beds available in hospital is surely a national disgrace
surely its preferable we have people dying because we have ran out of capacity ,rather than people dying whilst hancock brag daily about weve still got 2,500 icu beds available,seems more about hancocks nhs not been over run than saving lives

Apr 14, 2020 -- 12:49PM, potlis wrote:

NHS scoring calculatorAge65 - 70 = 371 - 75 = 476 - 80 = 580+.   = 6 +3 for frailty+3 other symptoms , blood pressure , lung disease and so on.

What you have described there is part of a triage system that had been documented to provide guidance to medical staff.
Triage systems are a routine part of the daily operations within a hospital.

Angoose 14 Apr 20 11:03 
Apr 14, 2020 -- 10:55AM, saddo wrote:

What a ridiculous reply, well done.


Educate me them, define lost cause.

..................

My question was clearly to potlis and I included quote marks on the term he used. Why would I feel the need to define someone else's turn of phrase to you? Ridiculous.

Remember that there isn't actually any treatment for this virus. The role of the doctors is simply to keep alive any patient who has it if they can see that the patient has a chance of physically overcoming the virus themselves.

Being tubed to a ventilator is a horrible thing, with all sorts of long-term physical consequences to anyone who does survive it. The decision on whether to put a patient on one (at the moment) isn't anything to do with lack of ventilators or lack of resources. It's a matter of whether a patient's physical state is such that the chances of their body overcoming the virus is greater than the suffering and damage done by being connected to a ventilator.

Ventilators aren't treatment. They're what you offer when there is no treatment.

what ever they are handjoib wanted 10,20,30,40,50,000 more and has still got less than 10,000 but cant find anything to do with nearly 3000 of them, we,re mushrooms been fed shoite with the lights off