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Just speculating there may be some genetic protection going on here.
The Germans and Scandinavians, and possibly a hint that UK citizens of such origin are coping better with the Rona virus.
Has to be borne out by the test of time it has to be said.
The Germans and Scandinavians, and possibly a hint that UK citizens of such origin are coping better with the Rona virus.
Has to be borne out by the test of time it has to be said.
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Either that or eating pork, cabbage and potato makes you immune
More like the kissy-kissy culture, France also. Older demographic in northern Italy - and older family members more likely to be living with younger family members.
Plus time will tell about our own rate - think we took lockdown more seriously than Italians did - they were imploring with us to take this seriously, we did, eventually
Plus time will tell about our own rate - think we took lockdown more seriously than Italians did - they were imploring with us to take this seriously, we did, eventually
nordic nations will be better protected for a number of reasons i imagine ...they have better standard of living/health/healthcare awareness education to start with ... low number of families per house too
Well men are more suspectible to it, and apparently the fatality levels vary by blood group. As quite a few older German males will have their blood group tattoed on their arm, it'll make processing them much easier.
above theories would play into the theory of the large dose ,of spread you catch it with be it sneeze,cough,kiss, closer contactr etc,the worse ,stronger strain of virus you recieve
Pretty sure most of the numbers are manipulated..Germany to show off their efficiency..USA now trying to downplay theirs so trumpton can get everyone back to work and save the economy etc.
West German IQ (and nordics) about the highest in the world ...just wondering ...maybe they can deal with it better
Australia /NZ low ...some of the highest living standards in the world
Australian horse racing still going fairly strong. They haven't yet been too put out by it!
Who exactly will record the figures in India for example.
Mar 30, 2020 -- 6:05PM, Coachbuster wrote:
although i was surprised with Sweden's stance
Think you answered it with your previous post. One of the reasons they apparently haven't yet locked down is they've the highest number of people living alone.
Mar 30, 2020 -- 7:32PM, black shuck wrote:
Who exactly will record the figures in India for example.
Vishnu has plenty of hands.
I wondered about a genetic determination of death rates per country, and why it could be.
There is a theory that most animal to human viruses originated thousands of years ago on the steppes of Asia, where people living with animals got going earlier. Because of this the populations there will have developed stronger immunity to such things.
In the 400s The Huns came out of Asia and swept into Europe with a seemingly invincible army. The Eastern and Central parts of the continent were ruled by various Germanic tribes, and the Huns annihilated their armies and were then free to rape the female population as they pleased.
The Huns then attacked Italy and France and won many battles, but there were fortified towns there, in which the females could shelter until the Huns were either bribed to go away or held in place long enough by sieges that The Romans/Gotha/Franks could raise a strong enough army to defeat them. They could burn villages, kill soldiers and cause a lot of destruction in France and Italy, but mass rape was not so easy.
They were forced out of Western Europe and within a few years the German tribes united and defeated them and before long they were out of Europe altogether. But maybe 200,000 children of one generation in Germany were fathered by Huns, and many inherit genes that protect against certain diseases. And then over the centuries that % of the population with protection will rise every time some Asian disease passes through and kills those Germans that have not inherited it.
There is a theory that most animal to human viruses originated thousands of years ago on the steppes of Asia, where people living with animals got going earlier. Because of this the populations there will have developed stronger immunity to such things.
In the 400s The Huns came out of Asia and swept into Europe with a seemingly invincible army. The Eastern and Central parts of the continent were ruled by various Germanic tribes, and the Huns annihilated their armies and were then free to rape the female population as they pleased.
The Huns then attacked Italy and France and won many battles, but there were fortified towns there, in which the females could shelter until the Huns were either bribed to go away or held in place long enough by sieges that The Romans/Gotha/Franks could raise a strong enough army to defeat them. They could burn villages, kill soldiers and cause a lot of destruction in France and Italy, but mass rape was not so easy.
They were forced out of Western Europe and within a few years the German tribes united and defeated them and before long they were out of Europe altogether. But maybe 200,000 children of one generation in Germany were fathered by Huns, and many inherit genes that protect against certain diseases. And then over the centuries that % of the population with protection will rise every time some Asian disease passes through and kills those Germans that have not inherited it.
Tobermory, have they published any details regarding the race/ethnicity of those dying with, or because of the Rona ?
do you think they dare go down that road
the guardian would be on them like a pack of wolves
the guardian would be on them like a pack of wolves
maybe the virus degenerates as it makes it way through the world
Sutton and Merton have roughly the same population however, the latter have 50% more tested positive. Extrapolate how you like nevertheless, I'm curious. Croydon?
Surrey (1.2m) has 4x the population of Croydon (385k) yet has slightly more Covid-19 cases of about 387 to Croydon's 347. Extrapolate how you like.
families living in numbers and close confines anywhere will not help
ps
anyone read the books by the yorkshire shepherdess - 9 children - she is my heroin
also on tv
and read about how they decimated their sheep flock of a 1000 or more during the foot and mouth crisis
none of their sheep had it but the min of ag still slaughtered them
ps
anyone read the books by the yorkshire shepherdess - 9 children - she is my heroin
also on tv
and read about how they decimated their sheep flock of a 1000 or more during the foot and mouth crisis
none of their sheep had it but the min of ag still slaughtered them
Risk factors for south Asian communities in the UK
Vitamin D deficiency is estimated to affect the majority of the UK south Asian population, with one report suggesting that this may be as high as 94% of the SA population in the winter, and 82% in the summer.8 This high prevalence can be accounted for by several risk factors that are particular to the SA population, including poor dietary intake of vitamin D, as many SAs in the UK follow religions with an emphasis on a vegetarian diet, which is low in vitamin D content.9 However, some Banglasheshi populations may have a lower prevalence of deficiency due to a diet that includes the regular consumption of oily fish. The protective effect of melanin in SA skin that limits cutaneous vitamin D synthesis is compounded by the cultural needs to cover the body amongst many SA women. Studies conducted around the world report lower vitamin D status in veiled women compared with males or females adopting Western dress,10 however, sun avoidance when outside is common to both male and female SA adults. Kift et al.11 conducted a prospective cohort study comparing the seasonal variation in vitamin D status in SA and white adults living in Manchester, UK over a 12-month period. The study revealed a marked seasonal variation in both groups. In summer, the median 25(OH)D level in the SA group was 9.0 ng/ml, falling to 5.8 ng/ml in winter.11 This compared with values in the white population of 26.2 ng/ml in summer and 18.9 ng/ml in winter. The majority of SAs never reached sufficiency in vitamin D status. Ultraviolet (UV) dosimeters used to record personal UV exposure revealed lower UV exposure among SAs, despite spending similar amounts of time outdoors. Sun exposure diaries completed by the participants also reported lower amounts of skin surface exposure in the SA group suggesting sun avoidance when outside.
Type 2 diabetes mellitus
Vitamin D deficiency is prevalent in diabetic patients, and could be as high as in 91% patients with diabetes.21 While this observation is not evidence for a causal link, vitamin-D-specific receptors have been identified in β-pancreatic cells22 and there is some evidence suggesting a crucial role for vitamin D status in the pathogenesis of type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM), via direct and indirect mechanisms that impact on β-cell function.23 However, the evidence from human studies remains conflicting.
South Asian communities have a four-to-six-fold greater rate of people with Type 2 diabetes mellitus than White British communities,28 and there have been a number of recent studies investigating the relationship with vitamin D status and T2DM in this ethnic group.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466148/
Goodness knows what to make of all that, but we do know that vitamin D deficiency affects the immune system, and that the effects of diabetes make sufferers more at risk from this virus.
More generally, different ethnic groupings do have very different medical responses, and I don't think it does anyone any good to ignore the fact.
Vitamin D deficiency is estimated to affect the majority of the UK south Asian population, with one report suggesting that this may be as high as 94% of the SA population in the winter, and 82% in the summer.8 This high prevalence can be accounted for by several risk factors that are particular to the SA population, including poor dietary intake of vitamin D, as many SAs in the UK follow religions with an emphasis on a vegetarian diet, which is low in vitamin D content.9 However, some Banglasheshi populations may have a lower prevalence of deficiency due to a diet that includes the regular consumption of oily fish. The protective effect of melanin in SA skin that limits cutaneous vitamin D synthesis is compounded by the cultural needs to cover the body amongst many SA women. Studies conducted around the world report lower vitamin D status in veiled women compared with males or females adopting Western dress,10 however, sun avoidance when outside is common to both male and female SA adults. Kift et al.11 conducted a prospective cohort study comparing the seasonal variation in vitamin D status in SA and white adults living in Manchester, UK over a 12-month period. The study revealed a marked seasonal variation in both groups. In summer, the median 25(OH)D level in the SA group was 9.0 ng/ml, falling to 5.8 ng/ml in winter.11 This compared with values in the white population of 26.2 ng/ml in summer and 18.9 ng/ml in winter. The majority of SAs never reached sufficiency in vitamin D status. Ultraviolet (UV) dosimeters used to record personal UV exposure revealed lower UV exposure among SAs, despite spending similar amounts of time outdoors. Sun exposure diaries completed by the participants also reported lower amounts of skin surface exposure in the SA group suggesting sun avoidance when outside.
Type 2 diabetes mellitus
Vitamin D deficiency is prevalent in diabetic patients, and could be as high as in 91% patients with diabetes.21 While this observation is not evidence for a causal link, vitamin-D-specific receptors have been identified in β-pancreatic cells22 and there is some evidence suggesting a crucial role for vitamin D status in the pathogenesis of type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM), via direct and indirect mechanisms that impact on β-cell function.23 However, the evidence from human studies remains conflicting.
South Asian communities have a four-to-six-fold greater rate of people with Type 2 diabetes mellitus than White British communities,28 and there have been a number of recent studies investigating the relationship with vitamin D status and T2DM in this ethnic group.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466148/
Goodness knows what to make of all that, but we do know that vitamin D deficiency affects the immune system, and that the effects of diabetes make sufferers more at risk from this virus.
More generally, different ethnic groupings do have very different medical responses, and I don't think it does anyone any good to ignore the fact.
get out in the sun and exercise on the pation - we have had a good few days
vitamin D isn't a problem associated with a lack of sun ,although that doesn't help .
... parts of southern England are sunnier than West Africa ...
it's the sun angle ...only available here for 5-6 months
... parts of southern England are sunnier than West Africa ...
it's the sun angle ...only available here for 5-6 months
Penzance/Scillies gets the best vit' D window
Shetlands the worst location ...and it also gets the least sun hours ...so a double bad whammy
Shetlands the worst location ...and it also gets the least sun hours ...so a double bad whammy
we do alright down here my patio faces south so you can imagine!!
the vitamin D bus is now around Brighton .... it will reach Leeds in a couple of weeks and arrive next month in Glasgow
just a pity you cant buy a sun chair from anywhere
just a pity you cant buy a sun chair from anywhere
Mar 31, 2020 -- 11:04PM, Coachbuster wrote:
vitamin D isn't a problem associated with a lack of sun ,although that doesn't help . ... parts of southern England are sunnier than West Africa ...it's the sun angle ...only available here for 5-6 months
If a lack of sun did not cause Vitamin D issues everyone in the world would be black. Dark skin prevents sunlight penetrating enough. Black women in Europe did not have enough vitamin D and this causes childbirth deaths. A women had a mutation giving her lighter skin, and so no birthing problems, and so her light skin was passed on.
further north you go from the middle of earth, lighter skinned people become, surely a direct consequence of the sun. West Africans darker than North Africans who are darker than southern Europeans, who are darker than North Europeans, excluding relatively recent migration.
well yeah ...our racial chara's are a direct result of climatic conditions and yes ,darker skinned folk need more sunshine
s/asian women who are dresssed top to toe in costume will suffer more / their children more likely to get rickets
s/asian women who are dresssed top to toe in costume will suffer more / their children more likely to get rickets
black people should still get more than enough vit D ...i've never heard of black women who venture out having problems here ...
you don't need much sunlight exposure
you don't need much sunlight exposure
"Vitamin D deficiency is estimated to affect the majority of the UK south Asian population, with one report suggesting that this may be as high as 94% of the SA population in the winter, and 82% in the summer."
This thread is way off the mark imo,South Asian males may well have a problem with sars-cov2, but its all to do with ace2 levels, in UK the issue of vitD is complicated and perhaps Asians with lower vitd levels will actually be a good thing for them and they will lack the cell reproduction capability due to lack of vitD they won't suffer from cytokin storm, perhaps those that have high levels of vitd could be at a disadvantage from their own immune system. Although more likely to get virus less likely to proceed to pneumonia. Been looking into all this sh! T,NOT a doc but vitd and calcium are linked, long story short do some research before rushing into D3 tabs. Could be wrong way to go but do some research.prob a butter v marg type scenario but do the research.Dont see any link with vit D, sunlight South Asians in UK and sars-cov2,none.
Coach, yes Vitamin D can be obtained though diet mostly I suppose.
White people are believed to have originated about 11,000 years ago in the Middle East. And the reason was agriculture was invented there and so the proportion of vitamin D rich foods would have dropped, hence birth problems for dark skinned mothers that were not getting the vitamin from either sunlight or diet.
The population of Europe at that time is presumed to have been black , but they were eating a lot of meat and so were doing okay, though in small numbers as hunter gatherers.
White people are believed to have originated about 11,000 years ago in the Middle East. And the reason was agriculture was invented there and so the proportion of vitamin D rich foods would have dropped, hence birth problems for dark skinned mothers that were not getting the vitamin from either sunlight or diet.
The population of Europe at that time is presumed to have been black , but they were eating a lot of meat and so were doing okay, though in small numbers as hunter gatherers.
Mar 31, 2020 -- 9:23PM, leif wrote:
Tobermory, have they published any details regarding the race/ethnicity of those dying with, or because of the Rona ?
They haven't and I doubt they will. If you start telling people that certain ethnicities or blood groups are protected then can't enforce the lockdown.
Coach, yes Vitamin D can be obtained though diet mostly I suppose
_____________________________
no diet will give you sufficient vit D to see you through the winter unless you're a trawler fisherman
_____________________________
no diet will give you sufficient vit D to see you through the winter unless you're a trawler fisherman
sunshine is the main source and for most of us ,the only source
in the USA they fortify foods ... which they did here once
in the USA they fortify foods ... which they did here once
racial links with c/virus will be cultural ...that's if i was betting on it
I believe mushrooms is a rich source of vitamin D so is sunlight or a mineral supplement.
mushroom marketing board using this as a sales pitch ...labelling too 
Most of the headliners non- white Northern European Caucasian.
I've been fooled then. I thought it was the UV-light that did it for them.
yes, they contain vit D but in meaningless amounts ...it's more of a sales pitch
you could never eat enough mushrooms ...
it would be like trying to get drunk on a 2% lager ...by the time you get to your tenth pint in a day you'd have to start again
it would be like trying to get drunk on a 2% lager ...by the time you get to your tenth pint in a day you'd have to start again
slice em and put in the window for a few hours, they soak up loads of UV and produce extra vit D
Mushrooms with exposure to ultraviolet (UV) light can also contain large amounts of vitamin D. These may include:
UV-exposed raw Portobello mushrooms: These contain 568 IU per 50 g, which is 95 percent of a person’s RDA.
UV-exposed raw white mushrooms: These contain 523 IU per 50 g, which is 87 percent of a person’s RDA.
Mushrooms with exposure to ultraviolet (UV) light can also contain large amounts of vitamin D. These may include:
UV-exposed raw Portobello mushrooms: These contain 568 IU per 50 g, which is 95 percent of a person’s RDA.
UV-exposed raw white mushrooms: These contain 523 IU per 50 g, which is 87 percent of a person’s RDA.
slice em and put in the window for a few hours, they soak up loads of UV and produce extra vit D
____________
saddo ,that is true ...but only during vitamin D season when we have more than enough anyway .
UK population is most lacking December - March/April when there is no vitamin D
____________
saddo ,that is true ...but only during vitamin D season when we have more than enough anyway .
UK population is most lacking December - March/April when there is no vitamin D
I eat about 250g of the brown chestnut ones per week. I also like Shiitake (expensive) esp the dried ones (Chinese) for making broth and stew.
it's like having an open air swimming pool nearby that's open only in the winter , or a boiler that only works in the summer , or a light that only comes on in the day time , or having a coat that you can only wear in the summer
if the mushrooms come from south africa or australia and flown here in the winter then that's OK .
tanning salon will give you UV .... take some mushrooms with you the next time you go
tanning salon will give you UV .... take some mushrooms with you the next time you go
has anyone seen doctor crippen ? 
...
he's the resident health advisor on here
...he's the resident health advisor on here
I believe he posted a couple of days ago. Not since then.
Not seen much to change my mind that the Rona is bumping off the darker skinned among us (worldwide population).
Admittedly, there might be a correlation between socio-economic status and dis-proportionate death rates.
I've seen testimonies from old buggers who've beaten the Rona but they appear to be vanilla
Admittedly, there might be a correlation between socio-economic status and dis-proportionate death rates.
I've seen testimonies from old buggers who've beaten the Rona but they appear to be vanilla
Sweden will be particularly interesting. The Northern European half are moneyed and a lot of them live alone, many of the other half are skint or on on benefits living in high rise ghettos.
saddo do you think they will release FULL details of who died - nudge nudge
African-Americans dropping like flies, and disproportionately when compared to the whites.
Ethnic cleansing
Ethnic cleansing
Unlikely me think. The government are withholding the report into the ethnicity of grooming gangs universally known and accepted to be of Pakistani origin.
A 101-year-old man (white)* has been discharged from hospital after recovering from coronavirus.
Keith Watson, from Worcestershire, was admitted for surgery after a fall but developed a high temperature and tested positive for Covid-19.
His daughter-in-law Jo Watson, said he is "amazing for his age" but "bemused" by the reaction to his recovery.
She said following a Facebook post from Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust, "it's all gone a bit mad".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-52222315
my emphasis added
Keith Watson, from Worcestershire, was admitted for surgery after a fall but developed a high temperature and tested positive for Covid-19.
His daughter-in-law Jo Watson, said he is "amazing for his age" but "bemused" by the reaction to his recovery.
She said following a Facebook post from Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust, "it's all gone a bit mad".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-52222315
my emphasis added
Inquiry into deaths of ethnic minority NHS staff urged
There is concern that a disproportionate number of NHS staff who have died have come from ethnic minority backgrounds, a fact confirmed by the health secretary, Matt Hancock.
Nineteen NHS workers have died with coronavirus since the outbreak began. The first 10 doctors whose deaths were announced were all from minority backgrounds.
There is concern that a disproportionate number of NHS staff who have died have come from ethnic minority backgrounds, a fact confirmed by the health secretary, Matt Hancock.
Nineteen NHS workers have died with coronavirus since the outbreak began. The first 10 doctors whose deaths were announced were all from minority backgrounds.
Unless these ethnic doctors are not given the same facilities and treatments whilst suffering from Covid-19 symptoms their age/living environment/diet/social behaviour/habits would need investigating, I think.
People with dark skin make less vitamin D than fair skinned folk...there is some evidence that this plays a part.
That's a very plausible reason. Supplements to the rescue then, and eat loads of vitamin D enriched mushrooms.
Research suggests that more than a third of patients who are critically ill in hospital with coronavirus are black, Asian or minority ethnic.
The Department of Health and Social Care has acknowledged there is "emerging evidence" to suggest Covid-19 may be having a disproportionate impact on these communities, and says it is working to reduce health inequalities.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52259531
If vitamin D does play a part.
GET OUT INTO GARDEN AND GET SOME SUNSHINE
A lack of Vitamin D is associated with many ailments, and scientists are looking in to whether it may be associated with Bowel Cancer.
If you buy a supplement, I would recommend Vitamin D3 only and dont take it all year round.
The Department of Health and Social Care has acknowledged there is "emerging evidence" to suggest Covid-19 may be having a disproportionate impact on these communities, and says it is working to reduce health inequalities.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52259531
If vitamin D does play a part.
GET OUT INTO GARDEN AND GET SOME SUNSHINE
A lack of Vitamin D is associated with many ailments, and scientists are looking in to whether it may be associated with Bowel Cancer.
If you buy a supplement, I would recommend Vitamin D3 only and dont take it all year round.
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