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28 Nov 19 17:54
Date Joined: 10 Jan 12
| Topic/replies: 11,035 | Blogger: TheBetterBettor's blog
Duckenfield cleared....

what now for the families?
Pause Switch to Standard View Justice for the ninety six
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Report Injera November 28, 2019 5:56 PM GMT
Accept the verdict?

To pin 95 deaths on one man was a disgrace. Football back then was dangerous. A fata crush could have happened 100+ times.
Report dustybin November 28, 2019 5:59 PM GMT
Lessons were learned since it has never happened again.
It's now come to it's conclusion.
Report elisjohn November 28, 2019 6:02 PM GMT
injera, so very true,
Report lmfao November 28, 2019 6:13 PM GMT
A fair result .
Report Reynard November 29, 2019 8:01 AM GMT
dustybin • November 28, 2019 5:59 PM GMT
Lessons were learned since it has never happened again.
It's now come to it's conclusion.

Lessons should have been learned a few years earlier when there was a similar situation in the Leppings Lane end in a Wolves/Tottenham FA Cup semi-final .
Nobody died , although there were several serious injuries , so they waited until a real tragedy occurred before addressing the problem .
The fact that they didn't act before the loss of 96 lives is the real crime !
Report Reynard November 29, 2019 8:15 AM GMT
Report Angoose November 29, 2019 8:33 AM GMT
It is tragic that people died that day, it simply shouldn't have happened. But it did. Sad

In such cases, it is not uncommon to find that there were earlier warning signs that went unheeded.
Piper Alpha (167 deaths) and Texas City Refinery (15 deaths) are two incidents that I am familiar with.

Both of these followed the common pattern of numerous earlier warnings going unheeded or being inappropriately dealt with.
Both of them saw a series of failures, none of which would individually been catastrophic, all occur on the fateful day.

We all agree that such tragedies are horrific and should not happen, but do we all treat health and safety issues with the seriousness that they deserve?

If a strong safety culture is not in place, then it is only a matter of time before a serious incident occurs.
Before you point fingers at others, take a good look at yourself and ask about your personal safety culture.
Report lfc1971 November 29, 2019 9:06 AM GMT
I don’t think they should have gone this far in wanting to blame a single person
terrible thing to have to live with
Report GAZO November 29, 2019 10:01 AM GMT
as reynard has put the big problem was not acting before even though incidents had shown what could happen,grenfell is another which could have been avoided but the cover up afterwards is fueling the fire that the higher up the social ladder you are the less accountable you become and grenfell is looking like its going the same way
Report cooperman November 29, 2019 10:13 AM GMT
For people not familiar with the matter, the whole incident is littered with false police statements, cover ups, errors of judgement that cost lives, failure to accept responsibility, blaming the fans themselves etc. etc. It doesn't look like the families of those innocent supporters, who just wanted to watch a game of football, will get justice but it has highlighted the corruption that was and still is in our Police force.
Report GAZO November 29, 2019 10:14 AM GMT
i suspect it goes higher than the police force
Report lfc1971 November 29, 2019 10:24 AM GMT
The gates were closed , then opened
That was a mistake and I don’t think we need to look any higher than that
Report dustybin November 29, 2019 1:51 PM GMT
When people talk about personal responsibility they do so for some unknown reason forget all actions of the fans themselves.
I cant be arsed going through it all over again, but among numerous errors that were accountable was the fact some in the crowd were totally irresponsible and Hillsbororugh for as much as all the Graham Report etc showed how things should be improved, the mindset of reckless fans assuming they'd always be safe changed on that day.

The coroner making a 14-0 verdict is the real error and totally illogical and serves only to create a mindset of the families that anything other than absolute exoneration is required....when they then get 2 trials (no verdict, then not guilty) after evaluation of the evidence they then go away and forever feel victimised and bitter.
Report dustybin November 29, 2019 1:56 PM GMT
Fans turned up late, in some cases drunk and without tickets for an all ticket game. Many impatient outside the stadioum scalling the walls etc.
People say 'but this happen on other occassions' and they would be correct....but to say that these actions didnt contribute on this occassion simply because they 'got away with it' on others is totally false.
Report crystalhunt November 29, 2019 4:20 PM GMT
Unfortunately Hillsborough threads attract the likes of dustybin an expert on the subject.
Report dustybin November 29, 2019 4:27 PM GMT
Well it is my club and I lived up the hill and had all sides of the story continually in the local news for decades and ancedotal evidence from residents and personal experience from going to that ground regularly at that time and saw Liverpool fans and the things they did pretty often.
Report dustybin November 29, 2019 4:31 PM GMT
Without name calling CH, a straight question for you.
Are you saying there is no cause and effect from having chancers turn up knowingly not having tickets to an all ticket game, or that reputations from previous encounters and custodials of fans didnt have an effect on policing attitutes etc?
Report Injera November 29, 2019 4:46 PM GMT
dusty's spot on.

The Mickeys were known for turning up late to bunk in. After the gates opened the 2k fans ran across the concourse straight to the middle pen. That caused the crush.

Left and right pens were safe. The ground like most were death traps.

The blame is shared in no particular order between:

The FA
The Fans

The cover up is another matter altogether. The fact not one copper has been prosecuted (unless I'm mistaken)for falsifying evidence is disgusting.
Report dustybin November 29, 2019 4:49 PM GMT
Yes Injera, I will certainly agree the fabrication after the event is what really added insult to injury as far as the families were concerned and created a rear guard action where they seemed not to have established any common ground as to rationality.
Report elisjohn November 29, 2019 6:45 PM GMT
i was at wembley 1977 final, loads of fans outside , with/ without tickets, i was around 17 it was frightening, massive gathering outside and gates not open till 1 .30, loads suffocating, it wasnt fair for this cop to get singled out, more blame on fa imo, but of course there shouldnt have been the lies, cover up, imo this firewoman that oversaw greenfell has more to answe than duckenfield
Report portmanpark November 29, 2019 6:53 PM GMT
cost 65 million...time to draw stumps
Report Shanelee1966 November 29, 2019 7:01 PM GMT
Agree with Dusty, the Mickeys and others were well known for certain behavior. It was a dangerous place around football in the 70`s/80`s. The things i`ve seen, even among my own fellow Blades.

Correct decision was made.
Report UBLE/REGY November 29, 2019 7:10 PM GMT
Duckenfield made the wrong decision in hindsight

But it was the behaviour of the Liverpool fans who created the problem in the place

Duckenfield has suffered enough, so probably right verdict
Report UBLE/REGY November 29, 2019 7:11 PM GMT
It has not happened again...lessons were learnt

Fans have to sit down now
Report UBLE/REGY November 29, 2019 7:13 PM GMT
place sb first place
Report the bloob November 29, 2019 11:03 PM GMT
right decision, a truly tragic case but hard to pin it on one individual, but the cover-up is another matter
Report stickyvicky November 29, 2019 11:48 PM GMT
Could he not have delayed the kick off for a half hour or an hour or even cancelled the game altogether when he saw the crowd congestion outside and in ?
I have been to venues over the years which can only hold crowds of 3,000 or 4,000 maximun and if there is any crowd congestion outside the stadium the game is delayed until it is sorted out.
Surely this is the first common sense move an Event manager/supervisor takes ?
Report TheBetterBettor November 30, 2019 9:21 AM GMT
^^^^^ There was immediate risk to life outside the ground, remember that young lad getting carried out near the entrance gates,,,
Report stickyvicky November 30, 2019 1:52 PM GMT
^ No, I don't actually, a simple police annoucement on the Tannoy and loud hailers that the game was delayed or cancelled would have saved lives.
Report UBLE/REGY November 30, 2019 2:01 PM GMT
A lot of things could have been done better in hindsight
Report stickyvicky November 30, 2019 2:11 PM GMT
Thats no hindsight, its the first 'kill switch' you hit in crisis crowd management.
These top management in the emergency services frontline take these courses annually/quarterly and are trained in emergency situations.
Report Injera November 30, 2019 3:57 PM GMT
Back then there was little or no regard for safety. Police treated every match as crowd 'control' not management let alone care.

The FA were complicit in that approach and the fans of course also.
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