GRENFELL RAP More Grenfell victims could have been saved, finds damning report slamming London Fire

Probably best to read the full report, to be released on Wednesday, before arriving at snap judgments.

just need to find out who let that cladding go on buildings,being as so little has happened on this he or she must be very well connected and very difficult for fire service when they dont know the cladding is made from firelighters

Clearly, I haven't read the full report, but I have read reports in to previous disasters such as Piper Alpha, Texas City, and the Deepwater Horizon.
A common thread running through these tragic incidents, and likely many others, is that there were many warning signs that went unheeded.

On the fateful day, there were a succession of control measure failures.
Individually, none of these failures would have been disastrous. In combination, they were deadly.

i said months ago the london fie brigade looked like being lined up as the fall guys, you only had to listen to the tone of the questioning they received. gavin barwell, when housing minister, sat on information warning of fire hazards in these types of developments for a considerable time. indeed, as far back as 2014 ministers were being warned of potential danger and they chose to do nothing.

Surely the fire service were at fault?
They were caught out at the speed of the fire.
And the instructions to remain  in the building turned out to be lethal.
Those in charge of policy should have anticipated this would happen if a cladded building caught fire, and issued proper guidelines.

Whoever was in charge in this area was negligent.

as angoose says likely lots of factors together but housing ministers were warned of the dangers of the cladding back in 2014 and did nothing. lfb had no really long ladder vehicles either i think which seems pretty dumb. telegraph have seen an advanced copy and could be spinning it too.

there are still multiple buildings at risk of similar fires.

The fire service is driven by a need to fulfill quotas, and standards are falling putting lives in danger
Women should not be in the fire service , we pay firefighters to bring human beings out of burning buildings before they die
It’s a masculine job

I said at the time of the grenfell fire that the London fire service were to blame and had messed up badly
They and the authorities since then have tried to cover up the simple fact that they did not do their job efficently or correctly

It's not PC to be in any way critical of emergency services, military etc.  But when there's a major failing played out in public they are no different to any other large organisations like big companies, political parties, governing bodies.  Same MO:- lawyer up, deny, lie, pass the buck and if all else fails then it's "lessons will be learned", slap on the wrist at worst and hefty pensions all round.

In this case I remember there was that video taken from inside one of the fire engines as it was on its way to the tower.  One of the lads inside called exactly what was happening with the fire within seconds.  He could see it immediately but apparently his superiors couldn't

The 2nd part of the enquiry is next year when the cladding issue will be dealt with.

I'm surprised that wasn't done first. The fire came first THEN the rescue, so why are the LFB in the dock first??

The advice to stay in the flats is standard but in this case clearly wrong.

Not a suprise all this the fire service taking the big rap for this tragedy , whilst the real criminals as usual escape any responsibility , its the same old song

In 1997 5ft 3in Gillian Maxwell was turned down by the N Ireland fire service because she was not tall enough
She took them to a tribunal arguing that it discriminated against women arguing that it excluded 60% of the female population
It was enough to overturn the 1947 fire services act and since then many more women , and large numbers of small men have tried to join up
More graduates are joining  as well , but of course as we saw in grenfell what use is a degree in a fire
They are employing the wrong people in the wrong job

Matt Wrack, general secretary of the Fire Brigade Union, slammed the official inquiry and said it was being carried out 'back-to-front'.

'We have said from the start that the inquiry is back to front, you should look at the causation of what happened to the building, who took the decisions and also the regime that allows that to happen. There are government ministers who are evading scrutiny in this process.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7625413/Fire-union-chief-blasts-Grenfell-report-probing-rescue-teams-first.html

Survivors are angry that Miss Cotton, Britain's most senior firefighter, is being allowed to retire next year at the age of 50 on a full pension estimated to be worth as much as £2million.

The public sector has become little more than a vehicle for the careers of the educated classes.

Whoever authorised the use of flammable material on the outside of the building was criminally negligent. Somebody must have approved it.
Or aren't the safety departments we spend millions of pounds on to look into these things not fit for purpose?
And the Fire chief responsible for the instructions to remain in a building of this nature while it was on fire, was also criminally negligent. 

Heads should roll, but of course they'll close ranks and cover for each other - as they always do.

As long as we do not blame the mayor who cut back the fire service -- dishevelled blond chap who was on Have I Got News For You a lot.

Cheap shot ^^^

wot rules was the 'fire chief' using - I assume they were issued from somewhere in a book!!  Or am I wrong again  as usual

And the instructions to remain  in the building turned out to be lethal.

That was what concerned me Dr Crippen

I think the rules with fire is get out as quickly as you can, don't stop for anything, fire spreads far more quickly

than most people think.....

Not that I am expert, my knowledge comes 'Towering Inferno' a few years back.

and never use the oft of course

lift

There has to be an impartial enquiry to find out what happens.

So it won't happen again, hopefully?

wrap a tower full of highly incendiary equipment, decorations and junk

wrap in highly incendiary foil
(yah know - how you cook a turkey)

and get an idiot with malfunctioning equipment at the bottom of bonfire ready

and caboom.  You couldn't make it up
ps

and get some chump to sign a document saying it's safe

what else do you want to know

pps  and blame the fire service for it all

do you ever get to hear about the guy who started it all?

He'll be made for life, funny old world.

People Leaving a Flat and saying it was Empty when it was not ,didnt help TBH

If someone tells a Fireman everyone is Out and they are coming out of the Flat , in this situation , I would think the Firemen move on to the Next flat ???

That is a good defence case

they gave immunity to the sub letters and he sub sub letters

Blame the fire service and that is who people will remember as being primarily at fault. Not what comes out afterwards. Thus, those more at fault, the powerful ones higher up the food chain, avoid the blame they deserve.

Spot on Lurka ,  And on another Point there would have been a few People there  Not meant to be there , They would have waited as long as Poss to make their exit ,Hence one of the Flats people  said everyone out , there were still several people in the Flat Who in the end never got out ..

The standard Stay Put Procedure would work 99.99 % of the time the place went up like a tinder box

It's a stitch up.

Telling people to stay put is official Govt advice. It was wrong here because the building was a powder keg. But firecrew are not allowed to break with protocol.

I suspect the corridors were full of flammable junk too. Whether that is made public who knows.

I'm waiting for firemen to break rank and tell us what they saw.

The cladding was made out of a petrochemical so was a fuel in its own right, a better insulator that can resist heat and flame is wool. Wool is not a fuel and inorder to burn wool you need an aditional flame/fuel.
This week in Carlisle we had the tragic death of a man who climbed Dixons Chimney (290 ft) he was trapped at the top and was hanging upside down for 15 hours in freezing and foggy conditions.
Both Grenfel Tower and Dixons Chimney are too tall for the equipment the fire service is provided with, an industrial cheey picker with a reach of 300ft was drafeted in from Glasgow to recover the Deceased. Councils up and down the country now need to consider the purchase and shared use of such equipment in the light of both Grenfel and Dixons chimney.