it was the British government that proposed the backstop.

No Boris has been elected in accordance with the election rules of the Tory party....my reference to unelected Irish representatives is to those who have been merely appointed.....by the way i'm half Irish.

How can they be when they are the only party trying to honour the referendum result
I really can’t understand your way of thinking pl

no peckerdunne , it’s not impossible   , it’s very easy

If the Irish want to insist on being independent , and on being in the EU
That brings responsibilities as well as rights

What do you mean 'if' and 'insist'

Ok,your politics are so,you have the biggest thing since ww2 and as a country being in disarrey would be a kind discription,zero unity to honour what your people wanted,and lfc please remember Boris is only doing it for himself.

If you are part of the EU , and Ireland is
Then freedom of movement should stop , from Ireland as with all eu countries , , on Oct 31st
Or whenever we do leave

How then, if so easy.

It simply means independence from Britain should mean just that
No automatic right to live and work in Britain

Posy,as far as i know Leo was as well in similar fashion. boris still wasn't "publicly" elected

peckerdunne it’s very easy  , if you are in the EU freedom of movement stops
And you can’t work or live in Britain
What’s difficult to understand about that ?

What steps would you take to ensure no freedom of movement.

The same as we take now for non eu countries , and the same as we will take for eu countries after Brexit

We are very fair like that

It’s quite something to expect to live and work in Britain after the way the Irish have behaved in the last 3 years
I don’t think we owe you that , sorry

ok with that ?

So how do you prevent people in Dundalk from going to 'London Derry'.

They can go where they like , we have millions of tourists every year
That’s fine , but they can’t live there and they can’t work there and they can’t draw the dole there and they can’t use the NHS there etc ..
Those sort of things

But they already work there, some for the PSNI,others for the NHS.

They are welcome to go to Germany or France or Poland , wherever
see how that works out

Anyone working and living here now can stay   , of course
We are happy to maintain that , including others eu members

The many school teachers and nurses, what will you do with them.

After that of course freedom of movement stops
Go to Poland or Germany

Pecker you’re not listening

They all have NI numbers and pay taxes to support the monarchy.

You said it was easy

If the worst comes to the worst we’ll get rid of the monarchy

After Queen Elizabeth we are not unduly worried

OH i see your changing your tune, but they don't need to stay because they don't live there as i have stated.

You appear not to have a solution.

I’m sure we will survive , you see there is a strange thing you might have noticed it the workplace  , no ones missed

The British are actively recruiting Irish nurses so they will all be allowed in.

My son is English and i have a British pension, though i live in the free state, so i can return at any time.

Only as a visitor , sorry

Still dont understand what Brexiteers wanted Ireland to do?  What should they have done differently?  Be a dereliction of their responsibilties not to look out for their own interests.

As Johnson said today - they understood the issues more clearly than the UK did. They communicated to UK well in advance but were ignored - but of course there was not one single document produced about how UK would exit the EU (in hindsight this is incredible - a country would take such a step with no plan whatsoever, wouldnt happen in a banana republic).

You make sweeping thoughtless uneducated statements but when one is asked about the detail he has not an iota, it's all just bluster and hot air, acking any credibility so far.

It’s not the fault of Boris if the EU doesn’t understand
The backstop has to go , then we talk about trade
It’s quite simple

We are not particularly interested in any more documents before Oct 31, anyway thanks

It was you who asked for the backstop,you are desperately clutching at straws.

Oct 31 will see no change.

I'm just in awe of Posy's 100lb+ mixed net.

Let me spell this out to you peckerdunne

It was the Irish and the EU who wanted the backstop , and who want it now
We don’t  , so stop talking tripe

You are incorrect lfc again, and resorting to insult again wont make you right.

Is that so ? Then why is Leo and the EU insisting it remains ?

It was a UK proposal, not one tabled by Ireland or the EU, and reflected a belated recognition that Northern Ireland remains part of the UK,

Heaven knows what tripe he will come back with now ....

pecker you’re not making much sense , as well as being dishonest
That’s not good
Why are the Irish and the eu insisting it remains ?

Trying to divert from what you said wont make you right either.

You insult people and nations quite frequently and pretend to be educated and well mannered but in reality you just have no knowledge of the subject and just resort to abuse to deflect from your inability to come up with reasonable solutions.All very undignified and shows you for what you are.

You see this is the problem when you get into talks with the Irish
They insist on something , and then say it’s because you want it lol

pecked don’t start to preach , I’m not impressed
You’ll have to stop that it’s rude
Especially when you can’t tell the basic truth

So just to clarify lfc, you are still saying the Irish and the EU requested the backstop.

The Irish requested the backstop , the Irish are insisting in the backstop staying in place
Now I’m not going to go over that simple fact again.

Don't let the truth spoil your little illusion old chap.

ok

Fact time lfc, just google,

irishtimes the backstop was a british proposal,not one tabled by ireland or eu.

That is not propaganda,you will not find it on british papers for obvious reasons.

come back with your findings please

I see your in deep musing over that thought provoking article,it really should have been the opening post,ah well,blame someone else,surely can't be your own fault.

It wasn't the British Government that proposed the backstop.

The ROI and the EU are using the backstop as a weapon against the UK. Non surprise then.

The EU have rules

I don't think the ROI want a hard border, they would hope for a United Ireland at some stage'

Deary me pl I’ve taken a look at that Irish times article
Stop wasting my time , it’s as devious and deceptive as might be expected of an Irish journalist

It says the backstop was a British proposal that reflected a belated recognition that N Ireland was part of the U.K.

We don’t need a backstop for that that’s a fact of life
The backstop originally was insisted upon by the Irish and the eu to ensure no hard border
That was it’s aim then and now

The Irish journalist is either confused or telling lies
He’s certainly not making any sense

Try and spot that in future when you read something

if there is a hard border between ireland and northern ireland ,what do you think will happen when Scotland rejoin the EU when they get their independence,do you think the EU are not going to protect that border?.a guy called Davis (i think)invented the backstop,and he was a member of the British government.i am not sure but i think i am correct.

the backstop is written into law,some guy stood up in parliament one day at the request of Theresa May and explained in great detail for 2 hours how water tight it is,they are all waffling and its all to fool the British public again,and everyone knows its all waffling .
Brexit means=we are not really going to leave but we can not tell the British people that they voted the wrong way,so we have to waffle for a long long time until we have a second referendum.

lfc  -  the "backstop" in the Withdrawal Agreement is a UK proposal.

(the original NI-only backstop was an EU proposal).

You are making a fool of yourself denying this.

will boris give northern ireland back to ireland,that is the big question.?

Wallflower you are making a fool of yourself if you think I don’t know that

The point is the backstop was an Irish and eu proposal , it had to be amended
But it was the Irish and the eu who wanted it a insurance against a hard border

Then and now
I don’t want to have to explain that again

… But at no time was it a British Government proposal.
May took the proposal to Westminster and the backstop was found to be unacceptable.

will boris give northern ireland back to ireland,that is the big question.? brassneck

No he cannot do that, there is a pledge that says N.Ireland can only re unite with ROI if the majority
in N. Ireland agree

We hold Gibraltar and the Falkland islands on the same basis.


One would hope in the long term Ireland is re united, but when is anybodies guess?????????

It wont happen in time for Brexit, that is for sure

It really is something when you have to continually explain these very basic things
And then you are asked to look at an article in the Irish times only to find the journalist there is trying to pull the wool over the Irish people’s eyes

And succeeding , I don’t know

the irish are use to it,the war has gone on since 1690 ,but for once just once in that long time the catholics out number the protestants ,so if there was a vote on a united ireland in northern ireland tomorrow the catholics would win by 1% if everyone who was eligible to vote voted on their religions .SO that answer to brexit is in a northern poll if someone used it.

“If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.”
— W. C. Fields

When Theresa May first come back with the backstop the Brexit papers were lauding it as a success showing that we can get something out of the EU in negotiations. That shows you just how clueless these publications have been all along.

Telegraph in June 2016 constantly told its readers how the Norway model was the only sensible version of Brexit that could be implemented and was the most popular method of leaving, look at the bile they now tell you today.

brassneck in time it’s likely there will be a United Ireland , the demographics point that way

But it could take 30 years  , now I know Brexiteers have shown great patience and forbearance

But we’re not prepared to wait 30 years !

One would hope in the long term Ireland is re united, but when is anybodies guess

It will have to be in the long term because at this time there is no appetite for a United Ireland in either the ROI or NI.

Boris said to Angela today that he is happy with 30 days to sort it all out,so he must have some plan .

That's reassuring.

Lol, that will be a miracle

he knows what he's doing; unlike Catweazle

And the biggest clue to everything that has been said about Brexit is that our friend Michael Gove said that Britain will leave on the 31st october 2019,and Michael tells porkies every single time he talks and never tells the truth,so lads
for betting advice =Chargeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

Michael is the spin doctor

akabula    22 Aug 19 00:46 
One would hope in the long term Ireland is re united, but when is anybodies guess

It will have to be in the long term because at this time there is no appetite for a United Ireland in either the ROI or NI.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not too sure about that.  Definitely in favour of united ireland in ROI if put to a vote, no doubt about it - too emotive. The Irish wouldn't "bottle it" like we did in Scotland, not a chance.

NI, its a close run thing, Teresa May was told if no-deal Brexit then result of irish border poll would be touch and go.  In our Dublin office a few NI people working there from Unionist background - have said to me where the thought of UI in the past wouldn't even be entertained its now being "actively discussed" among their friends. Not in favour of it, though accept the inevitability of it and the thinking is that perhaps its best to influence the structures of a "new country" rather than "join the Republic".

no country on these islands have ever voted for independence, and never will
Including Scotland

i am talking about the event of no deal.EU pump billions in grants into Northern Ireland every 4 years to keep the peace and support the standard of living.In a no deal situation the British TAX payer will not like 23% of their wages going to support their Northern Irish friends which will result in one of two outcomes.1 the British tax payer will revolt and refuse to pay for the upkeep of N.I.And N I. Will suffer a very serious depression.
OR 2.The British economy will buckle because of the billions it pumps into the N.I. economy.and the standard of living in Britain will drop like a stone.
if Ireland were handed back N.I Tomorrow,the EU would continue with the Grants and Brexit would be solved.
Now boris has a plan,i just wonder is his plan to hand back N.I.To Ireland ?a move nobody ever thought of,but would enrage half the population of N.I.

Reading the red button today, Boris does not want backstop, which means a border between N and S Ireland.
Unless the BBC have got that the wrong way round??????

Very confusing

Boris also said with energy and creativity WE???? can find a way forward

What does Boris think he is being paid for????

Now boris has a plan,i just wonder is his plan to hand back N.I.To Ireland ?a move nobody ever thought of,but would enrage half the population of N.I. brassneck

It could lead to violence and war.

Still nobody seems to know what they are doing at the moment brassneck, your guess is as good as mine.

No such plan could exist as legislation dictates that the people of NI must decide.

WF the last poll I saw indicated that a vote for a United Ireland would fail.

i would guess that Boris has the power to call a vote on a united ireland if he wanted to do it.just as LEO has the power to do it.

Bozo playing a blinder in gáy paree

tock tick

Boris has something up his sleeve,he is a very very clever man,and no one knows his plans,but somehow i think that at the end of the day he will come out of the next few weeks smelling of roses,without changing anything and giving the impression that he made a massive gain that everyone will believe.he is good TV viewing regardless of if you love him or hate him.

Brassneck,the solution is actually there,(the border in the Irish Sea) given 56% wanted to remain in EU time to tell the dup to do one even if they vote against it,talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

That’s against the good  Friday agreement

How is that?

I hope the Irish are not thinking that the good Friday agreement concerns only themselves ?
Get that out of your head

Ok,i was only trying to help.

You’re welcome

lfc,the people of NORTHERN IRELAND VOTED TO REMAIN IN THE EU.

Why should I give a fk about that ?

I THINK WE MET EACH OTHER A FEW TIMES WHEN YOU WERE POSTED OVER HERE.i thought we were friends

I’m sure that’s right brassneck ,any sensitive person would agree, well it is right there I’ve said it :)

What I meant to say is if they don’t t care about how I voted, I don’t see why I should care about how they voted
I’m like that

i understand.

I knew you would brassneck , I realised that before you even said it , I knew it
but other people would not ,
They’re like that

Have to go