Counter-terror chief says British Muslims should not be forced to assimilate.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7329769/Counter-terror-chief-Neil-B...

Skirt

There is a deeper question why have we been dragged into a war at all with Islam.

It was not there before 1990.

But we seem to have it now, I have my own ideas as to who is responsible for this.

But people have to see it for themselves.


But at this moment in times they are a Terrorist threat, we have to protect ourselves we have no choice.

'He urged that the government must grapplewith 'education, access to health'

There was me thinking we had a £90BN education system and a £130Bn NHS.

Great post lux.

are you doubting the word of the counter-terrorisnm chief, UR?

Crikey what a piece,have done some research to help Mr Basu get to the bottom of the terror problem starting with the most common sense approach an investigator would take

List of terror incidents in Great Britain from 2005

2005, 7 July: The London Bombings (known as the 7/7 bombings)
2005, 21 July: The 21 July 2005 London bombings, also conducted by four would-be suicide bombers on the public transport, whose bombs failed to detonate.
2006, 28 September: Talbot Street bomb-making haul.
2007, 1 February: Plot to behead a British Muslim soldier.
2007, 29 June: London car bombs.
2007, 30 June: Glasgow International Airport attack perpetrated by Islamist extremists. Five people were injured and the only death was of one of the perpetrators, who later died in hospital from his injuries.
2008, 27 February: British police thwarted a suspected plot to kill Abdullah of Saudi Arabia during a state visit to Britain in the year 2007 a senior officer said.
2008, 22 May: Exeter attempted bombing in a café toilet by an Islamist extremist, injuring only the perpetrator.
2009, 3 September : Manchester Piccadilly multiple suicide bomber plot.[72] In 2009 Pakistani national Abid Naseer, was one of 12 suspects arrested on suspicion of being part of a Manchester Terror cell, after arriving in the UK a year before. All were released on insufficient evidence, but ordered to be deported from the UK. Naseer's deportation to Pakistan was prevented on human rights grounds, as he was ruled 'likely to be mistreated'. In 2013, on further evidence from Al-Queda sources, including documents from the bin Laden Raid, he was extradited to the US, and on 4 March 2015 was found guilty of masterminding an Al-Qaeda directed plot to synchronize multiple suicide bombings around Manchesters Arndale Centre and Piccadilly Shopping centre in a coordinated attack involving other locations including the New York Subway with other cells.
2012, June: Five extremists plotted to bomb an English Defence League rally in Dewsbury but arrived late and were arrested when returning to Birmingham. A sixth was also convicted.[73]
2013, April: As part of Operation Pitsford 11 Muslim extremists are jailed for a plotting terror attack involving suicide Bombers.[74]
2015, 12 Feb : Liverpool Ricin Plot:[75] Mohammed Ammar Ali, an IT worker who rented a flat in Liverpool as a base of operations, attempted to buy 500 mg of ricin, which could kill as many as 1,400 people, using the darkweb. He was instead delivered a white powder by the FBI. Evidence was also found of attempts to purchase rabbits or chinchillas to test the poison out on.
2015, 7 July : Attempted anniversary London 7/7 bomb plot.[76] Mohammed Rehman and Sana Ahmed Khan were sentenced to life imprisonment for preparing an act of terrorism.[77] They had 10 kg of urea nitrate. Rehman called himself the 'silent bomber' and asked his Twitter followers to choose between the Westfield Shopping Centre or the London Underground for the planned suicide bomb.
2017, 15 September: Parsons Green bombing – The London tube train was targeted and witnesses reported a flash and bang.[78] Thirty people were injured, mostly with flash burns and crush injuries, but there were no fatalities. The threat level was raised to its highest point of critical soon after.[79]
2018, February : Ethan Stables, a white supremacist, was arrested plotting a machete attack in an LGBT parade

How much time and resources is being spent on prevention and on which type I wonder?

Before the usual name callers emerge the above is fact whoevers on there aint anyone on here's fault.

2012, June: Five extremists plotted to bomb an English Defence League rally in Dewsbury but arrived late and were arrested when returning to Birmingham. A sixth was also convicted

Ironic?

No

We share this country with a lot of Muslims.

We need to find a way of getting along.

I would never have let so many in myself, but since we have, so we have to face up to the problems and living together and solve it.

Blaming Islam is pointless.

interesting that Mr Basus father comes from Calcutta

So you've figured out that Islam is responsible for the violence?
Islam, as well as the muslims, have hardly ever tried to hide that. Its not like the koran is a secret. Or they try to hide the relevant parts of it to look innocent.

If you are expecting the authorities to declare publicly that Islam is the cause, you are living in a fool's paradise.

Everything else aside, the business with muslim countries and their population in England are the two main reasons I can see why the chief wouldn't say what you want him to say. Be real.

well you would expect a counter-terrorism chief to speak the truth; would you not?

All truths aren't the same.

This all started with our invasion of Muslim countries starting in 1990, in my opinion.

It made Muslims very angry.

This has resulted in Muslim Terrorists.


We need to stop young Muslims doing this. So we do need to assimilate them to a degree , make them feel part of uur society

We do not ask them to change their religion but they need to get on with their lives, don't throw it away on Terrorist acts.


just my OWN opinion, I am NOT a Muslim, I am a peaceful Athiest.

Agree or disagree as people choose.

I wouldn't expect the authorities to declare Islam is a problem but I would expect them to quietly profile any problem and pay extra attention to those who fit the profile,whether they are right,left or religious extremists.Failure to do that is unprofessional.

And how do you know they aren't doing it alreadY?

well actually it started in the 7th century & their invasions of others lands

Sorry to tell you U/R but the hate existed long before that,came across it in Saudi in the 80's ,spoken about by an Egyptian friend of mine in detail,but I would agree that it increased by an order of magnitude when you said it.Bush and Blair handled things very badly but previous US admninistrations were suffering in Lebanon and elsewhere.

Fair point deT but how do we know they are when the softly softly appeasement seems never ending ?

I read the interview and he does have a point about more needs doing before it reaches the police/security forces. However, his assimilation comments are naive at best.

People like Darwin and do wah diddy have in-depth knowledge of how the world works .

Just like they called Darwin a fool and nutter with his interpretation of life .so they too look at do wah diddy as some kind of nutter
But as Darwin was later found to be prooved right so will do wah diddy
when he is dead

Just a few short years ago Merkel was pointing out how multi-culturism and a lack of integration had "utterly failed" in Germany in her famous MultiKulti has failed speech... "And of course, the approach [to build] a multicultural [society] and to live side-by-side and to enjoy each other... has failed, utterly failed."

And it makes sense? I would have thought a society where people integrated (rather than one that forms sub societies where they live as if in enclaves of a foreign country) would be more cohesive, safer, more understanding, have less cross group violence etc. I'd have thought to have the this would by definition be assimilation?

He urged that the government must grapple with 'education, access to health, not disproportionate outcomes in criminal justice, feeling like you've got an opportunity to get on in life'.

what does that even mean ?

He is advocating separate societies, which we have already and there is little chance of that changing. Once they are near equal size these two worlds will collide with force.

The womb and the ballot box is all it is going to take.

And if current trends continue it will happen before this century is through.

Islam is a declaration of war. Just look around the world at the way minorities are treated in majority countries. Yet we are led to believe that somehow things will be different here?

Does a 1400 year precedent not mean anything? Just look at any of the major polls conducted into the attitudes of British Muslims in the past two decades. An absolute horror show.

That sounds similar to communism and socialism seeking to improve life opportunities for poorer white working class Ibba, race identifies one type of disadvantaged group but there are many others who would claim discrimination and lack of opportunities.

treetop • August 7, 2019 10:28 PM BST
That sounds similar to communism and socialism seeking to improve life opportunities for poorer white working class Ibba, race identifies one type of disadvantaged group but there are many others who would claim discrimination and lack of opportunities.

That is true I'd find it hard to believe that in this day and age any are less favoured than the average white person (this isn't a woe is the whitey cry).
Have 3 people in my family with decent public sector jobs in different areas who have had to forego actual merit when choosing candidates for a job vacancy or interview in favour of box fillers,despite unsuitabilities and lack of qualifications for the posts as absolute rule dictates from above.

From 2017 published 21 September 2018

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/employment/employment/latest

The most pointless thing ever is falling out over religion

Because no one ever changes

Look at all the catholic and Protestant wars in Europewe have had in the past, it killed a lot of people but


Islam is a declaration of war. Just look around the world at the way minorities are treated in majority countries. Yet we are led to believe that somehow things will be different here?

Does a 1400 year precedent not mean anything? Just look at any of the major polls conducted into the attitudes of British Muslims in the past two decades. An absolute horror show.


1400 year precedent?????????????????????????????????

Well there were the Ottamen Turks who created an Empire that nearly reached Vienna but not quite.

It is has largely been the religion of the Middle East since it started circa 700 AD.

But there has been no Islamic attack on us, not a serious one.

From 1900 onwards we attacked them, they did not attack us. I hold to that.

If we had not done that there would not be the problems we are having.


I do remember life before 1990, most people did waste their life complaining about Islam, Thatcher maybe but not Islam.


Am I the eonly on here who can remeber that far back, that explains it

from 1990 onwards

Although there was a period during WW1 when we attacked the Ottoman Turks as they were on the side on Germany.

We promised the Arabs(Muslims) they would be free to rule themselves. Unfortunately we broke our word and stayed.

did NOT waste their life

Since then we have encouraged Saudi to build many huge mosques here and fill them with hard line hate preachers. A poor idea with hindsight.

Probably saddo...I think most of our ideas have been poor in hindsight

at least Odysseus used a wooden horse

Wahabbant a clue how to solve the problems,not enough sharian ideas from people who are capable of telling the truth and not taking orders on gagging salaries.

Exactly black rock but when we are the minority .we will be silenced as no other culture would allow this to happen to their culture being destroyed like we have

1400 year precedent?????????????????????????????????

These figures are a rough estimate of the death of non-Muslims by the political act of jihad.

Africa

Thomas Sowell [Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture, BasicBooks, 1994, p. 188] estimates that 11 million slaves were shipped across the Atlantic and 14 million were sent to the Islamic nations of North Africa and the Middle East. For every slave captured many others died. Estimates of this collateral damage vary. The renowned missionary David Livingstone estimated that for every slave who reached a plantation, five others were killed in the initial raid or died of illness and privation on the forced march.[Woman’s Presbyterian Board of Missions, David Livingstone, p. 62, 1888] Those who were left behind were the very young, the weak, the sick and the old. These soon died since the main providers had been killed or enslaved. So, for 25 million slaves delivered to the market, we have an estimated death of about 120 million people. Islam ran the wholesale slave trade in Africa.

120 million Africans

Christians

The number of Christians martyred by Islam is 9 million [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-10] . A rough estimate by Raphael Moore in History of Asia Minor is that another 50 million died in wars by jihad. So counting the million African Christians killed in the 20th century we have:

60 million Christians

Hindus

Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning the “funeral pyre of the Hindus.”

80 million Hindus

Buddhists

Buddhists do not keep up with the history of war. Keep in mind that in jihad only Christians and Jews were allowed to survive as dhimmis (servants to Islam) everyone else had to convert or die. Jihad killed the Buddhists in Turkey, Afghanistan, along the Silk Route, and in India. The total is roughly 10 million. [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-1.]

10 million Buddhists

Jews

Oddly enough there were not enough Jews killed in jihad to significantly affect the totals of the Great Annihilation. The jihad in Arabia was 100 percent effective, but the numbers were in the thousands, not millions. After that, the Jews submitted and became the dhimmis (servants and second class citizens) of Islam and did not have geographic political power.

This gives a rough estimate of 270 million killed by jihad.

https://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/



A few more recent examples from the 20th century:

1. Muslim Turkey has expelled approximately 1,500,000 Greeks from its empire in the east and replaced them with Turks. They have massacred approximately 2 million Armenians and replaced them with Turks in the west.

2. Muslim Turkey has invaded and occupied northern Cyprus, displacing the Greeks living there.

3. Muslim northern Sudan has conquered much of southern Sudan, literally enslaving its Christian and pagan population.

4. Indonesian imperialism has occupied all of non-Islamic western New Guinea and incorporated into Indonesia.

5. Muslim Indonesia has invaded and conquered Christian East Timor with horrible loss of life.

6. This very day, Muslim Indonesia is attempting to destroy Christianity in what used to be called the Celebes.

7. A half-dozen Arab countries have fought two to four wars (depending how you count) in an attempt to destroy Israel and occupy its territory, and is currently continuing the attempt this very day with the publicly voted consent of 55 of the world's 57 Islamic nations.

8.Muslim Libya has blown up western aircraft, killing many civilians.

9. Muslim Albania, this very minute, is attempting to enlarge its borders at Christian Macedonia's expense.

10. Muslim Northern Nigeria has been (and is currently) an aggressor against the Christian south.

11. Muslims expelled approximately 800,000 Jews from their homelands between 1947 and 1955.

12. During Jordan's occupation of the West Bank, the kingdom undertook an unsuccessful attempt to make Jerusalem a Muslim city by forcing out approximately 10,000 Christian inhabitants.

Look at the terrible wars waged by Christian countries including 2 World Wars

The terrible cost of Imperialism waged by Christian countries including our own

The Crusades, this can be easily balanced

The current problems are not caused by Islam at all, although it has been used


It is because of land, there is a country in the Middle East which does not quite fit does it????????


Unfortunately I see poorer countries turning to Islam now, because of the exploitation of the West


Not something I welcome, being a peaceful Atheist.

Islam is not going to go away

Going by History persecution makes religion stronger

We all have to learn to live without War, difficult because War is part of human nature.


We believe it solves evrything

Looking at our invasions of the Middle East since 1990 makes me ashamed to be Christian

We have destabilised them, adding to the appalling killing.

If I was them I would hate us.

The White European people are not quite panicking yet, but when they do that's when things are going to get rough.
There was a reason why Germany had many Jewish people living there it was one of the best places for Jews to live far from perfect  but  better than  most, but by the 20s the Germans started to believe they were losing control of their own country and rest is history

you could always move to Iraq, UR? Then again if you wait long enough; Baghdad may pay you a visit

by the 20s the Germans started to believe they were losing control of their own country and rest is history

The same agenda is being played out again by ruthless unscrupulous people and the same idiots are believing it and propagating it.

Disingenuous to paint the actions of nations that are clearly secular as Christian Regy. The wars and actions you refer to had no theological basis. Intention counts for a great deal, the West has certainly acted clumsily for sure, but in recent times, the subjugation/extirpation of an entire people based on religious belief has never been a motivating factor.

Yup good point lux

War, murder and mayhem caused by greed for oil and lust for power! The white Christian West should read their bibles just like the Islamics. Shame and a pox be upon both their houses!

Whisperingdeath • August 8, 2019 1:09 PM BST

War, murder and mayhem caused by greed for oil and lust for power!The white Christian West should read their bibles just like the Islamics. Shame and a pox be upon both their houses!

Agreed the world runs on greed and power fortunately for us we live on the right side.

Looking at my 9:36PM showing factual terror attacks in Britain is it possible that reading heavily biased fictional Islamist material has contributed to the vast majority of those attacks in your opinion whispering?

There isn't such material that affects Christians in such a way I went to 2 Catholic Schools and was always taught 'Treat others as you would have them treat you' hence why none of my former schoolmates are blowing themselves up in crowds or murdering innocent people going about their daily lives.

Remember this thread was about comments from our Counter Terror Chief who's clearly got conflicts of interest and will stick to the establishment line of blaming anything but the terrorists because of their religion.

Onward Christian Soldier

Aug 8, 2019 -- 1:35PM, Whisperingdeath wrote:

Onward Christian Soldier

Is that some sort of Religious slur?
I'm an atheist.

once a Catholic always a Denzil!

You know the rules, do you not fear burning in Hell Fire!

Get it now it's a pi$$ take of those that fought and died for our freedom,your posts make sense now.

I don't think you do get it Denzil.

it is beyond you.

Aug 8, 2019 -- 1:39PM, Whisperingdeath wrote:

once a Catholic always a Denzil!You know the rules, do you not fear burning in Hell Fire!

Don't believe in fiction myself,not sure you should be rubbishing Religions especially as you are such a staunch supporter of Islam.

Aug 8, 2019 -- 1:40PM, Whisperingdeath wrote:

I don't think you do get it Denzil.it is beyond you.

Please explain,it needs to be a good one as you've shown yourself to be a Religious bigot.

Have a nice day Denzil and may your God be with you

not sure you should be rubbishing Religions especially as you are such a staunch supporter of Islam.

Your insight is truly remarkable

Why can't you explain your comments whispering?

Why can't you answer my questions posted at 1:31PM?

Looking at my 9:36PM showing factual terror attacks in Britain is it possible that reading heavily biased fictional Islamist material has contributed to the vast majority of those attacks in your opinion whispering?

You aren't fooling anyone

Why can't you explain your comments whispering?

I can Denzil but I fear you would not understand and I do not wish to be unkind.

Aug 8, 2019 -- 1:56PM, Whisperingdeath wrote:

Why can't you explain your comments whispering?I can Denzil but I fear you would not understand and I do not wish to be unkind.

Explain and also answer the 1:36PM question.

Whispering these deflections still don't answer the question posted,your religious bigotry,disdain of National identity and freedom won't make it disappear.

My doctor is a muslim. My solicitor and accountant are as well. They don't want to 'invade' Britain. They are decent, tax paying citizens.

To throw an entire religion into the dirt just because a few psychopaths commit heinous crimes isn't the way to go.

I don't recall the British public being asked if they wanted to give away large selections of their country or to allow a large group of people to live a parallel existence in our towns and cities

Maybe we should have referendum

I don't remember the Indian public being asked if they wanted to give away large sections of their country or to allow a large group of people to kill, pillage and rob all their natural resources.

I do, however, remember the British economy being in such a desperate state after the Second World War that they asked people from commonwealth countries - India and the West Indies etc - to come and live over here and work in factories to help the economy get back on its knees.

How many British live in India now

Mr Eboue • August 8, 2019 2:20 PM BST

My doctor is a muslim. My solicitor and accountant are as well. They don't want to 'invade' Britain. They are decent, tax paying citizens.

To throw an entire religion into the dirt just because a few psychopaths commit heinous crimes isn't the way to go

Nobody has ever suggested all muslims are terrorists,at the same time you don't hear much that highlights the extremists who hate everyone bar themselves and want to murder everyone else in the name of Allah but they exist and try to do this.
Ignoring the blatant facts and not tackling the hate spread by Wahhabism,Sharia and other extreme versions of the faith has ensured these events will and intolerances will continue to grow as will the number of people who adopt the same warped ideas for their self serving lives.

The only reason they asked people to come to Britain after war was to undermine wages why else did they sack the most productive workforce Britain ever had?

It is a quite extraordinary thing to witness Britain's Counter-Terrorism Chief inexplicably failing to identify the primary cause of "Islamist Terrorism".

It is after all the gravest terror threat facing his department and the country, and the clue is even helpfully in the name. 

His position is clearly untenable, and Parliament needs to hear from him ASAP.  How on earth did he get selected for this job?

You know how he got selected for the job. even though there were probably 10 others who were much better suited to that lofty position, he got it...If i were in a minority group, or shall i say, future majority group, i would become a police officer, if your useless and they try to sack you, you play the race card,. JOB OR MONEY FOR LIFE

Disingenuous to paint the actions of nations that are clearly secular as Christian Regy. The wars and actions you refer to had no theological basis. Intention counts for a great deal, the West has certainly acted clumsily for sure, but in recent times, the subjugation/extirpation of an entire people based on religious belief has never been a motivating factor.

The subjugation/extirpation of an entire people based on religious belief...who are you talking about?

If one looks back through European History one sees a great many wars based on Religion.

My argument is the problems in the Middle East are not caused by Religion, or certainly not Islam.

They very difficult to solve.

I wish for no more invasions of the Middle East by Western countries, it has solved nothing, but killed a lot of people.

This includes Iran!

These invasions seem to have ignited a religious war, that was never there in the first place.


There were no problems with Islam in our society before 1990. The year of our first invasion.

I hold to that.

then you had better think again

I don't need to, I remember it well Bap

Still we are entitled to our own opinions

mid 19th century the 1st people from what is now Pakistan; fought under the British  Raj  & some settled here. The main influx of course began properly in the 50s & 60s. There were problems with settlement & integration from that very period. Not to mention criminal activity

Fair enough Bap

I was thinking of Terrorist stuff

I also remember what they we called them...slightly denigrating

Imagine what they call whiteys who don't share their Religious beliefs bit tricky when you can't understand the language being spoken,if there is any mystery to what some think and teaching others to think the link below will shed some light;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WgVa3VRFb4&list=PLi9QnkGLs_ocydcryK2-W9XKsfHPv4g0a&index=1

This is from 2008 (I think) yet think of all the hate preachers,other terror related incidents and poor vulnerable kids who've destroyed their lives and many others since,the government knows what's going on.

& what causes terrorism? Well one is when one community is oppressed by another. Even if that thought process is wrong or inflamed by radicals. I'm not wholly disagreeing with you, UR just your dates & cause