Biology Trumps gender identity.

That's my maximum bet on Tess Tosterone in trouble then.

Well done (better late than never) IAAF didn't think this would stand in the current fake hate one sided selective human rights world we live in,not one thought about all the bona fide female athletes that've been openly cheated against for years.

I read an interesting article about American college sports.  Over there, if you perform well at a sport at school you can get a scholarship to university, often paying the whole course fee for you.  Trouble is, boys have been self-identifying as girls, competing against real girls in athletics and obviously winning.  They get the scholarship and the girls don't stand a chance.

Jul 31, 2019 -- 8:23PM, lybertyne wrote:

I read an interesting article about American college sports.

Yes indeed saw the video about the trans athletes that pi$$ed up in the 100m first 2 miles clear would've been an obvious FC beforehand.

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/girl-athletes-pay-the-price-of-transgend...

Is there any chance that 'Gender Identity' insanity can now be abolished in all other walks of life please, and we go back to the science, biology and logic that has prevailed until this, the so-called "Progressive" era.   

Boris Johnson would surely get a big boost in the polls if he merely stood up in the House of Commons and informed the House that there are actually only two genders, male and female, and it's impossible to change your original gender.

Cheers lyb the two mentioned on there must be the ones I've seen.

What's amazing is this:

Imagine the pain and disappointment of thousands of females who are "just girls" — and their parents — who sacrificed time and money to train and practice to compete for a tiny number of scholarships, only to have their one chance stolen by a male who did nothing more than say he identifies as a female.

A study of track and field athletes at Duke University underscores how unfair it is to pit women against men.  The study found that the world's most elite female runners are bested by non-elite men — and even high school boys.  For example, Team USA sprinter Allyson Felix has the most World Championship medals in history.  But in 2018 alone, 275 high school boys ran faster than Felix's lifetime best, on 783 separate occasions.  The Duke study concluded that testosterone is the single most important determinant of success in most competitive sports. 

The impact biological differences have when it comes to high school sports cannot be ignored —particularly when winning can be the difference between a girl's going to college or not.  As feminist Meghan Murphy writes, "There is no self-identifying out of biological reality."

Semenya is basically a man born without a **** whose balls didn't drop  - hell Semenya's even got a very feminine wife. If this is allowed to continue men hwo decide to be women will be winning all the women's sporting events. The media coverage of this has been completely disingenuous - noone daring to mention Semenya's got testes for fear of a hostile backlash from trans activists. Sorry Caster but you aren't a woman.

- hell Semenya's even got a very feminine wife.

Can remember the BBC documentary when Semenya's wife said candidly 'When I first met Caster I thought she was a man'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHqiG_hrbsc

going against the grain here but Semenya has never smashed records during her career, her best 800m time is 4th best ever, 14 seconds behind the world record in the men's, and a time that would not trouble the top 50,000 men of all time, her best 400 and 1500m times are nowhere to be seen either and she failed to qualify for the World Champs 800, final in 2015. She's no where near good enough to compete with men let alone beat them.

Not saying she should be running in Female sport either, it is a conudrum for the authorities but what they have to realise is that Testosterone levels are one thing, have male charaterisics carries other advantages in sport, body shape being one which is prevalent in a sport like running.

mouse

darren you are right in what you say though there are very simple explanations as to why Semenya hasn't broken world records outside those occasions where he hasn't tried at the finish because smashing records would highlight the situation further.
DRUGS MANY MANY PEDS THAT MAKE SEMENYA'S **** UP BALLS LOOK LIKE SQUASHED RAISINS AND ABOUT AS EFFECTIVE

Check out the countries and dates and google the highlighted ones and look at images to see what I mean all will make sense,keep an eye on the shorts of the European ones

Rank     Time     Athlete     Nationality     Date     Place     Ref
1     1:53.28     Jarmila Kratochvílová      Czechoslovakia     26 July 1983     Munich    
2     1:53.43     Nadezhda Olizarenko      Soviet Union     27 July 1980     Moscow    
3     1:54.01     Pamela Jelimo      Kenya     29 August 2008     Zürich    
4     1:54.25     Caster Semenya      South Africa     30 June 2018     Paris     [12]
5     1:54.44     Ana Fidelia Quirot      Cuba     9 September 1989     Barcelona    
6     1:54.81     Olga Mineyeva     Soviet Union     27 July 1980     Moscow    
7     1:54.94     Tatyana Kazankina      Soviet Union     26 July 1976     Montreal    
8     1:55.05     Doina Melinte      Romania     1 August 1982     Bucharest    
9     1:55.19     Maria de Lurdes Mutola      Mozambique     17 August 1994     Zürich
Jolanda Čeplak      Slovenia     20 July 2002     Heusden-Zolder    
11     1:55.26     Sigrun Wodars      East Germany     31 August 1987     Rome    
12     1:55.32     Christine Wachtel      East Germany     31 August 1987     Rome    
13     1:55.42     Nikolina Shtereva      Bulgaria     26 July 1976     Rome    
14     1:55.46     Tatyana Providokhina      Soviet Union     27 July 1980     Moscow    
15     1:55.47     Francine Niyonsaba      Burundi     21 July 2017     Monaco     [13]
16     1:55.54     Ellen Van Langen      Netherlands     3 August 1992     Barcelona    
Dong Liu      China     9 August 1993     Beijing    
18     1:55.56     Lyubov Gurina      Soviet Union     31 August 1987     Rome    
19     1:55.60     Elfi Zinn      East Germany     26 July 1976     Montreal    
20     1:55.61     Ajeé Wilson      United States     21 July 2017     Monaco     [14]
21     1:55.68     Ella Kovacs      Romania     2 June 1985     Bucharest    
22     1:55.69     Irina Podyalovskaya      Soviet Union     22 June 1984     Kiev    
23     1:55.74     Anita Weiss      East Germany     26 July 1976     Montreal    
24     1:55.87     Svetlana Masterkova      Russia     18 June 1999     Moscow    
25     1:55.96     Lyudmila Veselkova      Soviet Union     8 September 1982     Athens    
Yekaterina Podkopayeva      Soviet Union     27 July 1983     Leningrad    

You should get the picture give up looking after 12

Jul 31, 2019 -- 9:22PM, darren_discombobulates_sports wrote:

going against the grain here but Semenya has never smashed records during her career, her best 800m time is 4th best ever, 14 seconds behind the world record in the men's, and a time that would not trouble the top 50,000 men of all time, her best 400 and 1500m times are nowhere to be seen either and she failed to qualify for the World Champs 800, final in 2015. She's no where near good enough to compete with men let alone beat them.Not saying she should be running in Female sport either, it is a conudrum for the authorities but what they have to realise is that Testosterone levels are one thing, have male charaterisics carries other advantages in sport, body shape being one which is prevalent in a sport like running.

I absolutely guarantee those records would have gone if Semenya gave it 100% maximum effort

They have to give people enough reason to doubt it, dress it up a little

But there's no way Samenya is a woman, and women sports stars should be coming out and calling all this c*** out ffs

Just a short-term cop out from the IAAF (ignoring the irony of needing to dope to be allowed to compete).  They're saying
- we don't care what male traits you have
- as long as your testosterone is below a limit of 5 which is below normal minimum for a man (but importantly still a long way above the norm for a woman) you can compete in certain events
- for other events we'll just ignore all this
- so Semenya still has a testosterone advantage over women (those who aren't doping anyway)
- we'll just ignore any other gender advantages that are not testosterone
- we'll keep our fingers crossed there isn't a good male athlete who transitions, gets a bit slower as a result, but still smashes even the Semenyas by half the track

Good post GoBallistic hadn't realised the accepted levels were still that high (5) female levels normally range from 0.1 - 1.8nmol/L.

Of course this whole issue rather gives a lie that Women are the equal of men in sport?

The only thing this proves is women's sport is a joke

except for equestrian events where the Horse does most of the physical work.


He/she does not rather mannish to me in the face

Boris Johnson would surely get a big boost in the polls if he merely stood up in the House of Commons and informed the House that there are actually only two genders, male and female, and it's impossible to change your original gender.

We should admit this as well??????
We can only change people cosmetically.

I think this person was originally accepted as a girl at bith.

Probably best if she accepts the testorone controls.
I assume she has got used to being female

Look at this fella go reminds me of Secretariat in the Belmont

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObikI1d8xPI

But woman's football, it's coming home it's coming home it's cumming.

UBLE/REGY • August 1, 2019 12:43 AM BST
Of course this whole issue rather gives a lie that Women are the equal of men in sport?

Could you please source anyone of significance that says this? The whole Semanya issue is due to women being slower and weaker than men. Equal pay as entertainers is another issue.

Actually there have always been hermaphrodites,not that many,but they do exist and were highly regarded in some old religions. It's a different situation from somebody who is definitely male "transitioning"
Traditionally somebody has had to make a decision as to whether it is a boy or a girl,helped by some surgical tweaking in the last century or more in advanced countries. I would guess Semanya is one but that the medics or possibly her parents made a slightly odd choice at her/his birth.
I have no doubt that "transitioning" males should be banned from female sports but genuine hermaphrodites are a trickier problem. Messy though it is I think testoterone levels are the best way to go.

Could you please source anyone of significance that says this? The whole Semanya issue is due to women being slower and weaker than men. Equal pay as entertainers is another issue.

It is my own opinion dave 1357, I can make them

I don't understand.  You said "Of course this whole issue rather gives a lie that Women are the equal of men in sport?".  That implies that "someone" says that they are equal and I was asking you who stated that as it is obviously nonsense.

Usually women themselves dave1357

I suppose it depends how one reads it.

Women cannot compete against Men, in that sense they are not equal

But Women compete against each other, and demand that they are given the same status as Men who compete against each other


I think sport is for Men myself and I won't watch women's sport, but that is my own choice, other people make their own choice.

"same status" is entirely different to being equal in sporting terms.  Value as far as entertainment is concerned is more troublesome and there is an argument that if equal pay is provided that will be an incentive to TV etc to make an effort to attract a larger audience to the women's events.

I feel sport is more important to men, because it channels male violence into sport rather than actual violence and war.

I have no problem with women getting into sport or people watching women's sport, but the reasons are not so important


But everything now is about encouraging women into sport, I totally disagree with this although would not stop them


I believe thee focus must always be on Men and Sport, for the reason I have given

UBLE/REGY • August 1, 2019 1:46 PM BST
I feel sport is more important to men, because it channels male violence into sport rather than actual violence and war

And how has that worked out?

Godwin warning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Summer_Olympics_medal_table

It's amazing to think Menzies Campbell ran in that as a sprightly 33 year old.

It worked out well Dave1357

It delayed WW11 by 3 years...it started in 1939 instead OF 1936

I never claimed my theory was perfect

Godsins law, I don't know, a sneaky one there Dave1357

Not in the 1936 Olympics surely just checking...he was not born until 1941

Twas a joke uble :P But Anne Widdicombe came bronze in the knobley knees comp, that's solid fact.

Which is why she still defends these important British traditions today with such zeal.

I see

finally

Yes I definitely see what you mean, most were before my time so never even seen them before, nearly all the one's you highlighted are of a very phyiscal appearance, some of their wiki pages highlighted the suspected use of drugs as well, a newspaper in the the record holder's country said they found evidence the Czechoslovakia's Communist government were funding a doping program, and Tatyana Kazankina was suspended for refusing a test. Though with Pamela Jelimo, having watched the race she had a very fast pace maker leading for the first lap and a half, sounds feminine and set her PB in 2008, Athletes from that time are still be stripped of medals today because of their stored test undergoing more sophisticted analysis, but not her, maybe she's the most legitimiate

World Records bring more attenion, buy Semenya has had nothing but attention and a lot of it, her whole career because of her masculine appearance, so breaking a world record I don't think would have crossed her mind in terms of wanting to avoid more attenion, when you break world records in athletics it brings more lucrative sponsorships, think athletes even have bonus clauses in their contracts if they do.

messy situation all round, having looked at some of those athletes in images and some of their races plus known doping programs in an era much less stringent on testing than today, I think there is a case to scrap world records prior to 2005 which was mooted recently by the IAAF.

I agree in fact I'd start from scratch on them all ban tue's and introduce CIR testing and weekly bloods but don't think Athletics have a $50 billion budget.

One thing I'd seriously scrap is the procedure where when you test positive you aren't automatically banned,it goes to the heads of your federation to be dealt with which is where all the corruption takes place.
Plenty of good documentaries on youtube and after watching those and Icarus and Every Second Counts on Netflix came to the conclusion ALL ELITE athletes are at it and have been for decades,we (UK) are heavily abusing the TUE system with gear that works better than steroids and EPO combined.
Have chosen to enjoy the sports again when they are on and accept it to some degree but ther'll always be the doubts hanging over.

If you don't dope you won't cope

re doping they reckon the latest doping case costs for White and other lad in boxing  cost 27k to undertake - was listening to podcast from Bunce and Costello who were arguing ova where do you draw line cos its just not financially viable -similarly in Athletics - to have a fair playing field

Funny how they have sorted it out in TDF mind in double quick time cos where there's money