2 railway workers killed

Life can never be totally risk free

Being Railway workers you would thought they would be on the look out for trains

They may have disregarded safety regulations themselves


The truth will come out in time

r.i.p.

feel sorry for the one uninjured in shock, going to get grilled to fook and if they disregarded played fast and lose with the safety regs could be facing charges,

yet people still claim there is too much H&S in the workplace.
mainly the bosses or people who don't have to do the job.

red tape they call it

life jacket,or safety belt on an aeroplane/car,red tape to some

been drilled in to me at work 24/7 for last 30 yrs,eventually it sinks in as you get older and wiser

but I walk around the street and see small business/national names, roofers ,window fitters,scaffolders breraking every safety rule in the book on a daily basis

The truth will come out in time


Really?

The Railway is usually pretty good at this sort of thing and unfortunately it is usually the Railway workers themselves that have misunderstood the safety instructions. Not saying they did but it is very sad and should not have happened. Somebody should have been watching for trains and it would appear the boys did not see the train coming.

They should always have an Apache on the team with his ear on the rails, ready to shout "Iron horse coming!"

remember the one in cumbaria a few years back middle of the night a few years back ,2 locations few miles apart ,mis communication,detanators didn't wort etc and mowed down by a maintenance rolling stock in the dark,horriofic way to go

The errors are usually human 1st time

Sad but true.

I hear many stories of over officious Safety Officers acting like the Gestapo but very few of workers sticking up for their rights and demanding health and safety laws be applied. Whenever someone stand sup they are usually isolated and ostracised. The keep your head dowm RULE is applied. It is up to the workers to stand together which, I am afraid they are not.

sounds like one of those ghost trains, R'I'P

still some little hitlers out there who,dvrather catch people out,spend 10 mins taking photo,s of someone working unsafe ,risking injury rather than stopping them straight away, but in general theres more of a unwritten contract between safetymen and workers these days to get everyone home safe, more informal chit chats,conversations between parties to make job safer rather than been a gamekeeper/poacher situations, imo

the problem is if you complain about something you could lose your company a contract and you work!

indeed
hence the reason on construction sites they prefer migrant workers who are happy to do as they are told and not question anything,where as now I,d question everything and anything

tforth rd bridge repairs last year all migrant labour,scotish parliament said there,d be a world record of over a 1000 unrecorded accidents and injuries

“Signal worker” did not know they were there and network rail saying they were “not aware” of any work being carried out .      Was once involved in a job that involved track incursion and the procedures in place seemed to be robust ,with a belt and braces approach along with direct contact between track work location and signal box ,this should be even easier with modern communication systems and real-time train location systems .Of course if it’s dual or more track it gets more trickier especially at night on busy routes where a simple misunderstanding of which track is safe and which way to exit upon a train approach . Throw in contractors and agencies and communication probs and it becomes a game of Russian roulette ,whatever the real reason it will be masked and hidden in BS . Ultimately everyone has to take a big proportion of responsibility for there own safety and be happy all the systems and procedures are being followed to the letter .

Commiserations to the dead men’s family’s and friends and hopefully they get the answers they deserve .

Old days didn't they used to put warning things up the line that went bang if a train went over them?

As a failsafe with modern technology it wouldn't be that hard to have say an ultrasonic or laser device positioned up the line a bit either way that sets off an alarm near them every time a train goes by. Piece of p1ss to design and wouldn't cost much..

Would think a device like a magnetic switch or motion detecter ect could be deployed on either side of track work that would sound audible and visual along with triggering personal alarms ,of course this could have been non track work and as such they should not have been on track but due to poor planning/organisation/unforeseen circumstances they were or simply were crossing ,a stumble a fall ,someone tries to help ect ect ect

The two engineers were based at a maintenance depot just five miles down the line at Margam, and are likely to have been working as sub-contractors.

The job is said to be highly paid because of the dangers from trains passing at speeds of more than 100mph.

Well that is complete boosheite. Nobody gets paid more because trains pass at 100mph!

'The rail gangs tend to come from the South Wales valleys and Merthyr Tydfil areas. Lads can pick up a lot of money but it's very risky work. It's danger money.

Again this is boosheite. They can be paid from possibly £76 a shift before tax and travel!

'As well as demanding answers from Network Rail and a suspension of all similar works until the facts are established, the union will be supporting our members and their families at this time. Our thoughts are with those involved in this incident and their loved ones.'

Guess what. If works are suspended and they will be, sub contractors on day rate and zero hours contracts will not be paid!

This is not good!

Tragic accident. Poor lads.

Something went very wrong ,there is usually a whistle man 600 yards away (it’s a horn not a whistle,but they call it that) then 300 yards away is a man with a checkered flag,in case the whistle is not heated,and a spotter with the chaps working ,I used to be a train driver..

Heated heared

Heared heard

*perceived orally

It is unlikely they would have been working on the track with trains passing at 100mph.

They may have been working near the track or crossing. There are rules in place to prevent and accident like this from happening. Network Rail do actually take these things very seriously. It should not have happened in this day and age. Very sad for all concerned and the poor fellow who survived.

It happens every day ,they do work on high speed tracks,with a whistle man and a flag man ,.i spent ten years as a driver at derby (4 shed) its normal,if the whistle man is in place as the flag man nothing goes wrong

Was that a steam engine condo ?

Plate layers work on high speed tracks bud every day

I had a relative work on rail repairs.
As JC said they had detonators at regular gaps to warn the workers.
Was this practice stopped. Seems better than relying on someone with a whistle keeping alert.

No wrong ,you have 3 detonators at 300 yards if thier is a problem with the rail,not when platelayers are working ,as I said whistle man and flag man

And that’s to reduce your speed to 10mph

sorry but you do not have detonaters on an open line, not anymore!

If the rail is really **** you also get a man with a red flag

You do whispering, there’s a pack of ten in your cab,you use them 3 at 300yards 3 at 600 yards 3 at 900 if you derail,.

I remember my father killing a man at wath on dern  just outside Sheffield,the guy put his head on the line,but still had hold of the dog,the dog was ok he looked after him for a while,(family wanted him back) at the inquest the family apologised to my father ,it  finished him. He never drove a train again ,lived for the railways

Grayling says "Lessons will be learned" I utterly despise that pathetic & meaningless statement - from anyone who says it

The tragedy happened just three months after the Rail Accident Investigation Branch warned there were "too many near misses in which railway workers have had to jump for their lives".
In 2018 there was one death on the mainline railway and 6,641 injuries, of which 164 were major.

Quite horrendous figures. Major review and rethink of safety procedures needed surely.

hard to believe theres ear defenders that cut out the noise from a high speed inter city train,andtv says they should have a spotter further up the track,if they cant hear a high speed train how would they hear a spotter or a 2way radio clipped on your pocket, they must have been on or very close to track to get hit you,d think one would hear ,feel track vibrating, area on tv looks like a long straight piece of track no bends,tunnels etc

pre shift training, job packs,risk acessments,method staements,control measures are all great but most accidents occur when theres been a change in the work environment since all the above was signed off,
changes in time pressure, weather,changes in plant,machinery ,excavations,manpower working around you,above you,below you during the day, most safety measures are generic to cover an area,number of jobs,its upto to lads to check,go everything again once on the job to make sure nothing has changed around them
most jobs have a take time out,take 2 minutes to give everything a final check, one of the worst accidents ever piper alpha was down to a shift change and one permit not been signed off/on after a shift change,basic elementary stuff but most accidents are in hindsight

58 & 64 years of age. Both from Bridgend area

oh & both wearing mufflers

Sorry  bap it’s bullshit ,you cannot have ear defenders on a live line,

And why??

i only put up what was being reported. Now the Beeb are reporting police saying the same

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48854010

Someone was not doing thier job , be it whistle man or flag man

no planned work,stoppages on that part of track,so either a paperwork,planning **** up,or they were somewhere they shouldn't have been,noticed on tv a junction neareby with a track going off into sidings maybe they should have been on that track

apparently unions been flagging up lots of near misses to men working on tracks, flayling grayling will sort it out

"In 2018 there was one death on the mainline railway and 6,641 injuries, of which 164 were major."
But how many were where trains were involved? Is everything logged like whacking a thumb with a hammer?
I was in an office and got a tiny cut (can't even remember what it was, paper cut or snagged a finger on a staple or whatever) and it was spotted by an eagle eyed woman who dragged me away to make sure it was carefully logged in the "accident log book", despite my protests! Maybe she just wanted to be alone with me of course

It’s a cruel world Jc ,at least 1 a day jumps under a train in London,not reported

It killed my father, not the accident,the inquest,

I looked up those stats its not clear above, they are for railway workers so it's ex-passengers.

I remember a man ,Ben deely he hit 5 walked away as though it was nothing ,some never come back from it

Jumping in front of a train is imho a pretty selfish way to top yourself, as it affects so many people who've nothing to do with you, especially the driver

Driver at home in bits,could you imagine Jc,,terrible

People committing suicide give no thought to what effect it will have on others whether that be relatives or train drivers when jumping in front of a train.
Know of a case in Glasgow where someone jumped to their death from a multi-storey. Was witnessed by kids going to school. Horrible to impose that on anyone.

Hang on aka ,we had this discussion at work, would you,? If your heads gone who will stop you ?

There are easier ways to do it? Just walk into a Newcastle pub, find the biggest meanest guy in it, and accuse him of being seen wearing a jacket to the pub in a January snowstorm

That's why I said "give no thought to what effect it will have on others."
They are only concerned with ending their own life, nothing else matters.

Dreadful tragedy and rip to the deceased

Re JC's post "In 2018 there was one death on the mainline railway and 6,641 injuries, of which 164 were major." JC rightly questions this and it is now being bandied about on several sources, but what does it mean? Although this seems to relate only to "Railway workers", it is not at all clear what exactly it includes or excludes. I guess that sadly this incident may provide focus and clarity on the facts of the matter

Everybody that commits suicide are suffering from a form of mental illness at the time and are not thinking logically. Having witnessed train suicides at first hand, all I can say is that to suggest that it is a selfish act is the height of ignorance. Sure it`s horrific for all involved, the family and friends who witness it and the driver of course but they are not of sound mind when doing it. I sincerely hope that no one on this forum ever has to experience it.

One friend was suffering from mental illness and went missing late one winter`s night. His sister woke us up. She was in an alarmed state and a search wast immediately instigated. He often spoke of throwing himself in front of a train, so it seemed logical to head straight to the nearby railway lines in case he was preparing to do it. It was too late. He had laid across the tracks in the dark and killed by the night express. He was decapitated and his head was found - first 60yds down the track.

theres lot of thick people in the world, some say suicide is the cowards way out, believe its 99% usually an unbalanced mind, what doctors dont explain is how some medicines,
that are supposed to relieve your symptoms can actually be the firing gun that pushes people to turn their light off.

This incident brings back bad memories and I sincerely feel sad for all caught up in this tragic accident. The families, friends, workmates, the train driver and especially the two poor souls who lost their lifes.

The driver, and to some extent the passengers will be effected for the rest of thier lives,the two poor souls are lost ..someone did not do thier job ,fact, .... and don’t let news stories and ear defenders tell you any different

A train driver has it drilled into his head,you see a checkered flag you MUST blow your horn,to warn...the chaps on the line raise thier hands to acknowledge you and you give a single toot back,to say we are all on the same page,....ear defenders never

The figures given for deaths are for workers only. Two young lads died in March whilst on a graffiti run. Those two deaths are not recorded as accidents at work.

To be fair Network Rail take Health and Safety very seriously. I am only speculating but I suggest the rules were not being adhered to. The ear defenders I might suggest are also a red herring. The driver would have seen them and blown his horn. They would have heard the horn.

The trains travel extremely fast and cover ground rapidly. If they were not concentrating it would be easy for the train to catch up on them without their knowing. Nobody was looking down the track at the path of the oncoming train. That much must be obvious.

Chap believe me you concentrate whilst working on a live line

I think having two workers aged 58 and 64 on such a dangerous job is not the wisest thing. Brain and body slow down as one gets older.

Your drawing a lot of conclusions from very limited information ,apparently the time for a response to a high speed train approach is 4 sec ,not sure if this train was electric ? But generally all passenger trains/units are quieter . As for ear deffenders being a no no ,that’s not correct ,if using equipment that exceeds safe limits it’s s must and the safety proceedures that cover such a practice will dictate touch warning ,it’s already been stated the signal people were not aware and I have also read that no track speed limits were in place ,again without knowing what work was being carried out it’s wrong to make conclusions. Clearly something went wrong ,for me more than one thing went wrong as that’s why it’s always belt and braces approach to safety in such an environment ,risk assessment ,planing ,checks and double checks ,and finally a failsafe .

If the men were working on a line that was being used by trains....there is clearly a breakdown of communication somewhere

I assume they were wearing ear defenders because they assumed there would no trains on the line they were working on.

Life is not risk free, we cannot remove all risk  r.i.p

Conclusions.? Fact you see a flag you toot, they raise there hands to say we see if they don’t you keep tooting

We are not informed they were working “on the line” ,in fact network rail were “not aware” of any “track work “ .

If no hands you slap them on

Not disputing that condi ,seems to make sense but I have my doubts they were carrying out trackwork ,unsure if for example they were tree cutting or fence repairing if the same applies but can’t see two men with ear defenders on relying on one other to be looking in two directions and acting with touch warnings for them ,although perhaps they were part of a bigger team but at this stage that does not appear to be the case .

My 3:04pm post was in reply to WD

will there be a camera  in the cab condi ? Two dead out of a three man team and a driver who only seen them for seconds could explain why track was closed for so long as forensics were carried out ,also it was reported that medical people from a nearby factory attended so perhaps the collision was perhaps not high speed or full on but that’s speculative .We will have to wait on more details imo

There has to be an enquiry into how this happened...

Men working on a line and trains using a line.....should mutually exclusive, it was not?

Your drawing a lot of conclusions from very limited information

You are right but no so much drawing conclusion because I have no evidence. I am speculating there is a difference but the common denominator is I wasn't there I have absolutely no idea of what happened...tru dat!

On the line can mean working within two metres of the nearest rail. They were not necessarily working on the track itself. Chances are with ear defenders they were part of a de-veg team although some old boys like to have ear defenders attached to their helmet.

apparently the time for a response to a high speed train approach is 4 sec

That is incorrect. The sighting distance for a train at 100mph is 740 yards to give you 15 seconds!

That is not a lot of time to pick up tools and get off the track.

Ear defenders are not allowed when " walking " on the track. If they were de-veging they would not have been on the track but could have been " on the line ". If they were walking on the track they should have been walking into the direction of the train so they could see it themselves. If they were hit while working someone else would have been responsible for their safety and tell them to get " away " from the track, at least 2 meters.

Whatever happened, it is terrible and should not have happened. As conditor says there are repercussion for those who worked with them. Pschological probably being the worst but someone could go to jail. For once I am in sympathy with " The Suits ". They would not have sanctioned this work without proper protocol which imho if given was not followed.

As I sayed earlier my 3:04pm post was in reply to WD ,but as your Casey Jones fire at will
Bud .

I loved Casey Jones!

Four seconds was  in respect to sound of an approaching HST train ,but judging by the still photos the train was not high speed and stopped what appears very quickly .15 seconds is not a lot and 4 nothing ,saying you get four pulsed sounds from a high speed train approaching head on ,sorry for the mistake .

Apologies it was in fact a reply from WD

uble/regy

you  cannot remove all risk

when theres a fair chance of an accident and the result of that accident is almost certain death,whover done the risk accessment will have red warning lights flashing all over a job like this and no amount of engineering,controls, training, money, will have been spared to get the risk down to zero, so theres either been a catastrophic failure in job pack or the workers for whatever reason have ignored the controls or simply been working in the wrong  area

Sorry to keep going on about this sad affair,once a week every driver gets a booklet telling them where works are taking place, on what day at what time,(it’s your bible) you spend 6 months in a classroom learning this ,you also spend 6 months learning every inch of track out on the job (route learning)and then tested before you drive, someone did not do thier job,