Lee Pomeroy death: 'Frenzied' train attack CCTV shown to jury

ok, so let innocent people continue getting murdered.

The old chestnuts about it wouldn't make any difference or it doesn't deter americans is too flimsy imo.
If the death sentenced was reintroduced, i guarantee you that some of these people would think twice before they killed someone, as would 15 years with no remission for carrying a knife and 20 years minimum for carrying a gun. and if it saved ONE INNOCENT LIFE, Then i'm all for it.
oh and the other old excuse about innocent people being sentenced to death, when we had capital punishment before, we never had DNA.

think 25 years is the guideline for a knife murder. stabbing 18 times in a few seconds though after a trivial row

Stop and search using demographic profiling will save more lives than the death penalty and is much less barbaric.  You can't put people in jail for 15 years for carrying a knife.  We haven't the capacity or the money.  The old adage "you can't put a price on a life" is bollox.  We've got limited resources.  Spend billions on prisons and policing, means spending less on things like social care, enviromental plans, education, health care and advice, and safety procedures all of which will cost lives.  You have to extend your resources across a range of things.

And who pays for all of that?  Business and working.  You have to create an environment for business to thrive so that works get done, money gets made and you can tax profits.

Or we could elect a government that doesn't want to invest in any of those things at all - believes in small government and every man for himself. Oh hang on, we have.

We have a government that invests in all those things, that spends what it can afford, and is (cough) trying to create an environment for business to thrive, so that we can continue to spend money on these things in the future.

However, someone tried to gamble on a referendum, and lost, so we are going to be in an environment where economic projections and common sense dictate we'll have less money to spend, and have less protection for the workforce.  A lose/lose scenario.  Which all means a Tory government is all the more essential for my kids futures

Think Pomeroy was upset that he was disrespected in front of his son was the reason he went after the guy with the knife...no matter the outcome of this encounter it was just a matter of time till he murdered someone else.

Capital punishment for murder would save the tax payer millions every year. No jail time.. That could be pumped back into saving lives and compo for victims.

one thing for sure if the death pentaly was applied, the person would not commit the same crime again

..as does happen.

Old religious philosophy "I'll forgive him when he's dead"

I doubt they save money in the USA.  15 years on death row and legal buill after legal bill

Pomeroy should have left well done alone after the crazy walks off and it would've saved his life  ...can't understand why he went badgering him  ..people DO carry knives around  these days 

Injera • June 27, 2019 4:33 PM BST
Capital punishment for murder would save the tax payer millions every year. No jail time.. That could be pumped back into saving lives and compo for victims.

How do you propose to provide compensation to a victim of murder ? You can't take it with you nor can you send it on to one who has already gone

The man cannot be defended for killing Pomeroy with a knife...he has to go down

But it is a pity Pomeroy had not learned to walk away form an argument, in fact the knife man was trying to walk away from Pomeroy.

Condolences to Pomeroy's family r.i.p.

wont get away in this case with self defence,(but where does self defence comes into calculations, ie if  i had a knife and 4/5 lads threatening to beat me up, and i felt im in trouble here, would it be ok then to stab someone, i think yes,)self defence surely is when you think  or is  that youre life is threatened, so doesnt come into play here. Another scenario, if a woman was trying to get away from Pomeroy and he was pursuing him and felt scared/ threaten and she stabbed him , what would happen then, ?

the killer will get life here no doubt, but will get less after migitation on the max tariff, but whats going to go against him massively is that he used the knife 18 times, used it once he could claim manslaughter on self defence.

Be interesting to see his previous crimes when this trial finishes.

So if youre the Judge, what tariff would you set to his life sentence?...


Chavy fat girlfriend should be given 5 years for assisting an offender... in reality she'e prob getting 6 months..

In todays news.
21 yo in America who bludgeoned his victim to death with a dumbbell given a minimum of 50 years.
We could use sentences like that in this country plus prison regimes like theirs.

I see that elisjohn the resident legal expert is back.
Only needs to hear a couple of 5 minute clips on the news to have all the answers.

But he soon shows his ignorance when he comes out with statements like this used it once he could claim manslaughter on self defence





This is the same elisjohn who was started a thread stuart hall allegations,pathetic.


Total support for a man who later pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting a NINE year old girl.

Reynard - a murder results in many victims. In this case a son has lost his Dad..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jbt721NQVI

Given a sentence of 35 years for theft etc then the death penalty for murder.
Gotta love the Americans for sentences like that.

In cases where the offender brings a knife to the scene and uses it to commit murder the starting point is 25
years for an offender aged 18 or over and 12 years for an offender aged under 18  Dont know his history, but i am doing this sentence assuming hes no history  just on this offence, id give him 25 years , less  migitation probably 5 years off( if there is any }, so im going life sentence with minimum 20 years .

jml, lost in the bookies today

Carrying a knife and stabbing his victim 18 times I'm guessing hes got previous.

Carrying a knife and stabbing his victim 18 times I'm guessing hes got previous.

if hed stabbed him once and he died, then he could say self defence as he is , but also say he didnt try and kill him, thats then manslaughter.  And as stuart hall the allegations to start with were pathetic, so is rolf harris, but doesnt mean you plead guily means that you are guilty  .

His mum says he was a diagnosed Paranoid schizophrenic... Hope this isnt used in mitigation... But cant see how it wont be.

seemingly retreating through the train... more likely goading Lee to follow...


This is now high profile, so i see a deterrent sentence of at least 27 years..

And as stuart hall the allegations to start with were pathetic, so is rolf harris, but doesnt mean you plead guily means that you are guilty  .


WOW!!!!  Did that clown actually say that.

yes i agree could be emitdeb,  coz of the high profile, just as that in the chap who fled in the thames speed boat case, ( very unfair sentence imo}

Makes one question why someone would give such support to convicted paedophiles.

jml , please **** off , no one likes you on here. dont think youd call me a clown in my face wudye, i know that.BY the way many people plead guilty even when innocent  i personally wouldnt but a lot do .

CLOWN??? FFS you support paedophiles and you worry about being called a clown.

It's about time you're neighbours in Porthmadog knew what a sick bastard they have living amongst them

must have had a bad day with your betting,  this thread is nothing to do with paedos anyway .

jml. youre going over the top now again

Keep meaning to post this elisjohn.
Even if he'd stabbed him once I doubt he'd get away with pleading self defence and manslaughter.
That surely would be giving the nod to carrying a knife for self defence purposes if that plea was accepted.

Exactly . This would only apply if Pomeroy had produced the knife and the defendant had turned the weapon on him , thus self defence . The only weapon involved was taken onto the train by the defendant , therefore he went equipped . Self defence plea thrown out , no mitigation .

i think a lot of youths/ people are carrying knives about now  are for self defence, but a  situations gets out of hand and tragedy occurs. im certain that stop and search should be carried out  and a automatic  5 year sentence  if caught with a knife not rocket science but it would deter most.  ps  young private school students carrying them in cheshire  when one got killed by his friend .

Them saying they are carrying knives for self defence wouldn't get them very far in court.

I totally agree elisjohn, get caught in possession of a knife should carry a 5 year custodial, a repeat offence then life without parole. get these vermin off our streets.

Pomeroy looks intent on aggro . The coloured chap looked as if he was holding the blade in his pocket before he moves off , only to be followed .
Do they both have form?

probably a stupid question. BUT if pomeroy has previous form, will this come out in court, or is it just the accused form that comes out at the end of the trial. ( I SUPPOSE THIS IS WHERE MONEY COMES into things if you can pay for a top qc), dont suppose legal aid barristers do much digging do they ! serious  ? would like to know the answer.

If the defence knows they will bring it out in court.
Doubt it will make much difference though.

and before anyone tries to accuse me of defending this chap. im not , but i would always like the truth  and facts to be told in all circumstances. this chap stabbed someone 18 times that isnt defendable

His mum says he was a diagnosed Paranoid schizophrenic... Hope this isnt used in mitigation... But cant see how it wont be.

seemingly retreating through the train... more likely goading Lee to follow...


This is now high profile, so i see a deterrent sentence of at least 27 years..

emitdeb

goading???...he could have been but he could also have been  just been trying to get away from Pomeroy.

We don't hear what is said

If he is a diagnosed Paranoid schizophrenic... He may be declared guilty but insane

He would be confined in a mental instituation for rest of...


Pomeroy actions not the most intelligent

We dont see the knife attack so difficult for us to judge tbh???

To stab Pomeroy 18 times in 25 secs...does seem a little more than self defence

Obviously Pomeroy the type not to let things go.
Why follow him especially when he had his son with him.

When a weak person stabs somebody that they are terrified of then the stabbing will be frenzied . It happens .

yes good call there, ok lets say im carrying a knife, and i bump into,  eg a known killer or someone you dont mess with  ( hypothetical}, i know who he is and is pursuing me, would i then have a case to stab him  loads?

true dunlaying, probably kept going until the victim dropped.

What suprises me is how casual Mr Pomeroy is in his stance and proximity.

2 other points:

1) You couldn't pay me to confront someone wearing dark sunglasses, with their head covered, on a winters day. Think about it.

2) It's very hard to claim self defence when you go out into the public with a knife. It shows premeditated intent to endanger life. Even worse that he (presumably) struck the first blow captured on CCTV. If you pick up a knife on the kitchen table in a struggle, that is entirely different.

1} of course you wouldnt, well i wouldnt anyway. Perhaps the dead man was a known " BIG MAN "

You can tell he thought he could handle himself if it kicked off, but sure to god he wasn't thinking about a knife.

We are speculating as we don`t know what was actually said, but the video implies that Mr Pomeroy won the argument at least twice but was determined not to let it go. Sad ending. Anybody found carrying a knife in Scotland gets 6 months.

defendant struck the first blow. be struggling to claim self defence even if you stabbed him once let alone 18 times in a frenzied attack

Looks like a racist killing.

Silly me, the black is the perpetrator so he must have been provoked.  Bad childhood, picked on at school or something.

He's going to get a stiff sentence for pleading not guilty.  There's clearly no case for self defence and it's a high profile case all pointing to a high life tariff.  If he's diagnosed schizo that will change things. 

If a friend had been with him and done nothing the friend would likely be charged too.

why's the girlfriend pleaded not guilty ? beyond doubt she helped him even if he somehow gets off for manslaughter. gonna cost her extra jail time

Jun 29, 2019 -- 10:27AM, lybertyne wrote:

Silly me, the black is the perpetrator so he must have been provoked.

Just saying, it looks like he was provoked tbf

Why 18 times? Is the heart or neck that hard to locate?

A very angry man in possession of a knife with a passion to use it.

I agree with Tobermory….but we find we are provoked in life, but we don't all  stab someone seventeen times,

I think that was more than self defence myself....


But then we have not seen the important part of the video, the stabbing, we are all guessing a bit.

GUILTY

his g/f guilty of assisting an offender

When did it become common to charge girlfriends with assisting an offender? Surely we used to take for granted that friends and relations would provide false alibis, or at least look the other way. It would have made the average Sweeney episode a lot shorter if Jack Regan could have had the blaggers' old ladies in.

just read about the previous

The trial had heard how Pencille had a history of violence, havnig previously stabbed a flatmate in the neck after a minor disagreement in 2010.  He also threatened to kill a staff member at a mental health hostel last year.

Pencille, who has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, has been seeing psychiatrists since 2004 but had not taken any anti-psychotic medication at the time of the attack on the train.

"He's a dangerous man. Quite clearly with his previous convictions, where he also stabbed another man in the neck, and his propensity for carrying knives, he showed his dangerous, aggressive nature and that he wasn't afraid to use that knife on that train on January 4," Det Ch Insp Blackburn said.

The deadly row began when Pencille accused Mr Pomeroy and his son of blocking the aisle on the train in January.

Like i said.


leazes67 28 Jun 19 13:34 Joined: 18 Jan 05 | Topic/replies: 4,621 | Blogger: leazes67's blog
Be interesting to see his previous crimes when this trial finishes.

it's scary how many schizos are walking about

Baphornet • July 12, 2019 4:18 PM BST
it's scary how many schizos are walking about.... there's a fair few posting in chit chat too , Bap

don't i know it; they all love me

Half the time , maybe

the one,s who let them out are not accountable for them so they dont really care who they let out

ah well,  Reynard we know the difference between genius &  stupidity, is that genius has it's limits. The epitaph of this forum unfortunatley

28 years minimum. 28 months for the girlfriend

well that's good news; i'd have given the girly more though

maybe i should rephrase that?

with his backgroung i'm surprised he was even walking about   ..arrested 19 times in 19 years did i read ? and stabbed an ex flatmate . wowzers   

  if you allow folk outside  atleast make sure they come a warning tag 

Vanessa George is out after serving just ten years . Another disaster waiting to happen with no one to be held accountable
How must the mothers of those babies be feeling ?

However sad at least a violent offender is now behind bars.

WTF a man has been murdered Makes little difference to him or his family , What a pathetic statement , whats the

matter with people on here , This thing should not have been roaming the Streets ,Just be thankful you never met him death

You look at this type of person wrong you can end up dead ...

"Maybe but I don't think most people would follow someone else down the train to continue a slanging match. There is a hint of Pomeroy trying to throw his weight around.

Worse that his son was there to witness his death.

However sad at least a violent offender is now behind bars.


The Most pathetic statement I have read on here , EVER Absolutely incredible

He doesn't seem to have spent much time in prison given his record.
Nothing but a savage and surely can never be released.
Good to see his g/f jailed as well.

Hopefully the Victims family , does not read the Forum Deaths post could lead to legal action

matter with people on here , This thing should not have been roaming the Streets ,Just be thankful you never met him death

The clue is in the name blood! He wouldn't even know what was coming!

casemoney 12 Jul 19 21:52

"Maybe but I don't think most people would follow someone else down the train to continue a slanging match. There is a hint of Pomeroy trying to throw his weight around.

Worse that his son was there to witness his death.

However sad at least a violent offender is now behind bars.


The Most pathetic statement I have read on here , EVER Absolutely incredible

Try a little harder fool,

I am sure you will find something worse!

casemoney 12 Jul 19 22:12

Hopefully the Victims family , does not read the Forum Deaths post could lead to legal action

Explain how so, idiot!

You are cretinous beyond belief, well maybe not. You have some competition on betfair forum's tbf!

Is there anybody on this bleedin' forum that can hold a different opinion to yourself who isn't immediately subject to childish , unconstructive name-calling ?

absolutely incredible he was still walking the streets after previously stabbing a bloke in the neck in 2010. if that isn't considered attempted murder and a minimum 10 year stretch something very wrong with the justice system and sentencing

mafeking • July 12, 2019 11:51 PM BST
absolutely incredible he was still walking the streets after previously stabbing a bloke in the neck in 2010. if that isn't considered attempted murder and a minimum 10 year stretch something very wrong with the justice system and sentencing

Well done , not exactly rocket science though

As I observed earlier on this thread one of the most evil women in the british prison system , Vanessa George , is being released after serving just ten years after being jailed 'indefinitely' in 2009 for the most heinous crimes .
The only thing you can be sure of is that these psychopaths that are freed to walk among us , don't walk among those who are responsible for such bizarre decisions

Can anybody be confident that she won't add to her tally of 64 victims ?

Go away Death ,Get a decent nights sleep get your head together you are clearly upset , your blood appears to be boiling
Boiling blood is not good for anyone ...

Stop making silly posts about murder Victims There's a good chap ,no need for it what so ever ...

Tragic is the word we are looking for regarding this case ...

Slandering the victim of a murderous act , how low can a person Get ?

Regarding George  , Beyond belief Rey , are they giving her a new ID , because she will need it ,  One of the parents has Vowed to kill her , that's of those that have gone public , If any are  successful you can be bang sure they would not be released in 10 years , there will be another wasted Life probably 20 years behind bars

@Reynard
I read about her release today. Must be the worst case of its type.
Horrendous beyond words.
For anybody who doesn't know what she was jailed for Google Vanessa George.
Unbelievable she's being given her freedom.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paedophile-ringleader-****cruited-nursery-18144335

The fooker who was running the Show is also due out

AK, dead woman walking mate , Must be a new ID involved has to be ??   Will be carnage if people find out who she is

The parole board justified Georges release by saying she had shown remorse and had behaved herself in prison.
Telling them what they want to hear. The vileness of the crime should have seen her serve a lot more than 10 years.