if god did not make the universe ,who made it?

Are you dismissing the possibility that God could be a woman?

To answer your question though, the universe was made by IKEA.

why does it have to be a 'who'?


just because something is complex and the understanding is beyond current scientific knowledge is no reason to
start asserting it must be 'god' or some other omnipotent imaginary friend.


current scientific consensus is: 
If you leave hydrogen atoms alone for 13.7 billion years, the hydrogen will start talking about it.

Must have been the chicken then.

If not having an explanation to you means god must have created it .. who created god?

Riddle me that, oh man of the copper and zinc head support?!

Just Checking • March 8, 2019 8:15 PM GMT
If not having an explanation to you means god must have created it .. who created god?

Supergod?

If God made the world then where did God come from?

The human need to have an explanation / solution to everything is a highly destructive force.


Freddy and the boys answered this question for us back in the 80's.


It's a kind of magic. A kind of magic. One dream, one soul, One prize, one goal. One golden glance of what should be. It's a kind of magic. One shaft of light that shows the way. No mortal man can win this day.

When man can't find an explanation he usually invents one. Few are prepared to admit they don't know.

There's only 2 possible explanations.

1) Something created it
2) It's always been there

1 is a case of - who created the creator who created the creator who created....etc.

I'd plump for number 2, but even that frazzles my mind.

We're highly likely to be living in a simulated universe.

Once we've figured out what makes the universe tick, we'll doubtless simulate our own universes, and we'll technically be Gods. Mwah ha ha ha haaa!

If God had a name what would it be?
And would you call it to his face?

If you were faced with Him in all His glory
What would you ask if you had just one question?

I've no idea. If only he was one of us, we might be able to ask.
Perhaps a stranger on the bus, or something.

Only society has taught us of the danger of strangers, so know one will be prepared to ask anymore.

"know one"? Your negatory is unsatisfactory.

Oh, a typo, how did that happen

If God had a face what would it look like?
And would you want to see if, seeing meant
That you would have to believe in things like heaven
And in Jesus and the saints, and all the prophets?

Profits? On Betfair? That's a myth.

darren_discombobulates_sports
08 Mar 19 20:33
Joined: 17 Jun 11 | Topic/replies: 1,575 | Blogger: darren_discombobulates_sports's blog
There's only 2 possible explanations.

1) Something created it
2) It's always been there

I would add
3) It evolved from something else

There's another theory that it expands and expands until it gets to a max limit then contracts back to a tiny tiny point, then there is another big bang and another universe starts all over again, repeat ad infinitum.

If it didn't exist you'd have to invent it.

The only answer I can personally give is to read Hawking's book ....'A Brief History in Time'. Very heavy going but if you stick with it you might find an explanation. If too complicated go by the saying......'life is meant to be lived, not understood'.

Maybe Dilbert has the answer.

https://dilbert.com/strip/2019-03-03

vg

Isn't Hawking's book undermined by the fact he refused to believe the Higgs-Boson particle existed? I think he even said after it's discovery it made the physics less interesting, not sure if that was sour grapes

Hawing was the first to believe in black holes. (now proven) Go to the 'event horizon' and time stops. Sounds like science fiction but recognised my all astrophysicists now.


Yes, I know. How can time stop?

Just to baffle a little bit more. Only 1% of the universe can be seen. The rest is dark matter or dark energy I believe. Where is the other 99%?

The 1% own the 99%

afaik they are under no obligation to display it to us.

afaik they are under no obligation to display it to us.




If I only knew who 'they' are. If I did I would probably end up in a bigger institution. And trust me, many people have trying to figure it out.


FWIW, imho Richard Dawkins has it spot on with his book....'The God Delusion'.

Good book then? I've never read any of his because I'd already figured out meself how delusional these people are.

People have beliefs and I'm not going to insult them but if there was a God he must be a touch greedy expanding the universe 1,000,000 miles every day.

I would ask him but he must be helluva busy running it.

Is it not the case Hawkings really became synonymous with Physics because of his disability rather than his work which largely centered around theorising possibilities most of which were unproven, think the likes of Maxwell, Newton and Einstein are held in much higher esteem in Science circles. Maybe even Tesla.

Or Penrose?

Why can't the universe itself be considered to be "God".

Etienne Vermeersch (who just died a few weeks ago incidentally, so maybe he now knows for sure) said this:  "If everything must have a cause, of course, this also applies to God; if God can exist in isolation, then why not the universe?"

because it doesn't make sense, that's why

http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-origin-of-the-universe.html

of course its impossible for the universe and for human life to exist , I suppose that means that anything is possible

People usually demand a beginning, so in the beginning there was a sea of spirit and it filled all of space. The spirit was static, content, and aware of itself. It was a giant resting on the bosom of its thought and contemplating what it is.

Then the spirit moved into action. It withdrew into itself until all of space was empty. In the center, the sparkling mind of the spirit shone. This was the beginning of the individuality of the spirit. This was what the spirit discovered itself to be when it awakened. This spirit was God.

God desired self-expression and desired companionship; therefore, God projected the cosmos and souls. The cosmos was built with music, arithmetic, geometry, harmony, system, and balance. The building blocks were all of the same material - the life essence - God simply changed the wavelength and rate of vibration of these building blocks thereby creating the patterns for multitudes of life forms. This action resulted in the law of diversity which supplied endless patterns. God played on this law of diversity as a pianist plays on a piano - producing melodies and arranging them in a symphony.

I thought the diversity lot were all descended from Cain?

Each design carried within it the plan for its evolution - both physical and spiritual. This plan corresponds to the sound of a note struck on a piano. The sounds of several notes unite to make a chord; chords in turn become phrases; phrases become melodies; melodies intermingle and move back and forth, across and between and around each other, to make a symphony. Then in the end, the music will stop and the physical universe will be no more; but between the beginning and the finish of the music, there was glorious beauty and a glorious experience. The spiritual universe will continue on.

Everything assumed its design in various forms and their activity resulted in the laws of attraction and repulsion. All forms would attract and repel each other in their evolutionary dance.



All things are a part of God and an expression of God's thought. The Mind of God was the force which propelled and perpetuated these thoughts. All minds, as thoughts of God, do everything God imagined. Everything which came into being is an aspect of this One Mind.

All things, including the souls of individuals, were created as "fractals" of God for companionship with God - the "Whole." This revelation from Cayce revealed the astonishing fact of how self-similar the universe is on every scale: from the atom to biological organisms, from human beings to the planet Earth, from solar systems to galaxies, from the universe(s) to God.



The pattern God used to create souls was the pattern of God's own Spirit. The spirit is life. From the spirit, the mind builds patterns. From the mind, the physical creation is the result. This is how the spirit, the mind, and individuality, became the pattern for souls. This is how cause, action, and effect became the pattern for everything. First there was the spirit (the first cause); then there was the action which withdrew spirit into itself; then there was the resulting individuality of God.

The spirit of the individual existed before the soul of the individual was created. The spirit keeps the knowledge of its identity with God. The soul has the ability to experience the activities of the mind in a manner separate from God.

Thus, new individuals issued from God and remained dependent upon God; but individuals were also aware of an existence apart from God. Individuals were given the power to choose (free will) and direct their own activity. Without free will, it would only remain a part of the individuality of God. The mind, issuing as a force from God, would naturally fulfill God's thoughts unless directed otherwise. The power to do this - to direct the force of mind individually from God - is free will. And the record or memory of this freedom is the soul. The soul began with its first expression of free will  through the force of mind. The first thought the spirit generated from free will - the first diversion of the force of mind from its normal path of unity with God - was the beginning of the soul.

The nucleus of the soul was the balance of positive and negative forces equal in power. These forces produce harmonious activities: the positive force initiates, impregnates, and thrusts forward; while its polar negative force receives, nourishes, and ejects. The steps of this evolutionary process are also the stages of the thought process: perception, reflection, and opinion.

The words of Edgar Cayce i should say.

Thus, the soul consists of two states of consciousness: (1) the spirit which bears a knowledge of its identity with God, and (2) the soul which bears a knowledge of everything it experienced.

The plan for the soul is a cycle of experience unlimited in scope and duration. Through this evolutionary cycle, the soul will come to know the creation in all its aspects at the discretion of the will. The cycle would be completed when the desire of the will was no longer different from the thought of God. The consciousness of the soul would then merge with its spiritual consciousness of its identity with God. Then the soul will return to its source as the companion it was intended to be.

As a companion, the soul would remain conscious of its separate individuality and would be aware of its own free will as it now acted as a part of God, but not diverting its mind because it was in agreement with God's influence on the mind of the soul. Until this state of at-one-ment was reached, the soul would not be a companion in the true sense of the word.

The idea of returning to God means a loss of individuality is paradoxical, since God is aware of everything happening and must therefore be aware of the consciousness of each individual. The return of the soul is the return of the image to whom imagined it. The consciousness of the individual - its soul record - could not be destroyed without destroying a part of God. When a soul returns to God it becomes aware of itself not only as a part of God, but as a part of every other soul, and everything.

What is lost is the ego - the desire to do other than the desire of God. When the soul returns to God, the ego is voluntarily relinquished. This is the symbology behind the crucifixion of Christ.

The plan for the soul included experiencing of all creation, but it did not necessarily mean participating in all forms and substance. Nor did it mean souls can interfere with the creation. Nor did it mean souls are to spin their own little worlds, twisting and bending laws to make images of their dreams.

But these things could happen. The soul was the greatest thing God made because it has free will. Once free will was given, God did nothing to curb it. However it acted, it had to act within God's reality. By whatever route, the soul will return to God.

The apparent fact of the human body being a speck of dust on a small planet in a regular galaxy in a universe of galaxies can lead to the illusion of  humans being a small creation. But the soul is the unlimited activity of the mind and the grandeur of imagination.

At first there was little difference between the consciousness of the new individual (i.e., soul) and its consciousness of identity with God (i.e., spirit). Souls merely watched the flow of the Mind, somewhat as people daydreaming, marveling at its power and versatility. Then souls began to act itself, imitating and paralleling what Mind was doing. Gradually souls acquired experience, becoming a complementary rather than an imitative force. It helped to extend, modify, and regulate creation.

Certain souls became aggressive with their own power and began to experiment with it. They mingled with the dust of the stars and the winds of the spheres - feeling them - and becoming part of them. One result of this was an unbalance between the positive and negative forces. To feel things demanded the negative force. To express through things (and directing and managing them) required the positive force. Another result of souls becoming aggressive with their own power was the gradual weakening of the link between the two states of consciousness (i.e., spirit and the soul). Some souls became more concerned with and aware of their own creations rather than God's. This resulted in the fall of certain souls to an even lower consciousness. The Bible allegorically refers to this event as the Fall in the Garden of Eden and the revolt of the angels in the Book of Revelation. This event is also the basis for the cosmology of Christian Gnosticism and Jewish mysticism.

To enter into another level of creation and become part of it, the soul had to assume a new, or third consciousness - a physical form. Assuming a physical form is a way of experiencing that particular level of creation by means of a conscious mind (i.e., the third consciousness). Through the conscious mind, an individual can experience physical consciousness: the physical body, the five senses, the glandular and nervous systems. This transformation of consciousness does not apply everywhere at this level of creation. In other worlds and solar systems, the transformation may differ. One can only imagine the number of these other worlds and the aspects of divine mind which they represent.

When a soul enters into another level of creation and its consciousness, it separated itself temporarily from the consciousness of its own soul, and became even further removed from the consciousness of its spirit. Thus, instead of helping to direct the flow of creation and contributing to it, the soul found itself in the stream and drifting along with it. The farther the soul traveled from the shore, the more it succumbed to the pull of the current and the more difficult was the task of getting back to land.

Planets and solar systems became a temptation to souls. Each solar system had its own course and its own plan. Souls moved toward them through the activity of a constant stream of mind. When a soul leaped into the stream (by immersing itself in the system through which the stream was flowing) it had the force of the current to contend with, and its free will was hampered. It was very easy, under these circumstances, to drift with the current.

Each solar system also represents an opportunity for development, advancement, and growth toward the ideal of complete companionship with God - the position of co-creator in the vast system of universal mind.

Our solar system also attracted souls. Since each solar system is a single expression of the divine, with its planets as integral parts, the Earth came into the path of souls.

Each solar system in the universe is like an atom in a universe of worlds. Atoms have quantum levels for electrons to travel around. The sun has "quantum levels" for planets to travel around. The planets of our solar system are physical representations of heavenly dimensions. These levels as a whole are the consciousness of our solar system. There are nine planetary-afterlife dimensions to the consciousness of our solar system. The planet Earth represents the third dimension where three-dimensional life is experienced in our solar system.

The Earth is an expression of Divine Mind with its own laws, its own plan, and its own evolution. Souls, longing to feel the beauty of the seas, the winds, the forest, and the flowers, mixed with them and expressed themselves through them. They also mingled with the animals, and made thought forms in imitation of them. Souls played at creating and imitated God. But this interfered with the evolutionary plan of the Earth. Thus, the stream of mind carrying out this plan for the Earth gradually drew souls into its current. Souls had to evolve into the bodies they had themselves created.

This entanglement of souls into physical form was a probability from the beginning. But God did not know when it would happen until the souls, of their own free will, had caused it to happen.

All souls were created by God in the very beginning - before the universe was created. No other souls have been created since then. This means all souls on this planet, pre-existed before birth. Of the souls which God created, only a comparative few have entered into the experience of our solar system. Many other souls have gone through or are going through a similar entanglement in other solar systems in the universe.

A way to liberate the souls entangled in matter was created. A physical form became available as a vehicle for the soul on Earth. A way became available for souls to enter the Earth and experience it as part of their evolutionary/reincarnation cycle. Of the physical forms already existing on Earth, a species of anthropoid ape-man most nearly approached the necessary pattern. Souls descended on these apes - hovering above and about them rather than inhabiting them - and influenced them to move toward a different goal from the simple one they had been pursuing. They came down out of the trees, built fires, made tools, lived in communities, and began to communicate with each other. Eventually they lost their animal look, shed bodily hair, and took on refinements of manner and habit.

The evolution of the human body occurred partly through the soul's influence on the endocrine glands until the ape-man was a three-dimensional objectification of the soul hovering above it. Then the soul fully descended into the body and Earth had a new inhabitant: the **** sapien.

**** sapiens appeared in five different places on Earth at the same time, as the five races. This evolved human is what the Bible refers to as "Adam". When souls incarnated into physical form, it would bring the divine consciousness (i.e., the spirit) in with it. Cayce referred to this divine consciousness as the "Christ Consciousness" or "Buddhahood" or the "superconsciousness". Christ consciousness has little to do with the personality known as Jesus. It means a person has attained a complete human-divine unity. This human-divine unity has been attained by many people thus far - one such person was Jesus.

The problem for the soul entangled in flesh was to overcome the attractions of the Earth to the extent the soul would be as free in the body as out of it. Only when the body was no longer a hindrance to the free express of the soul would the cycle of Earth be finished. This is the condition of having a perfect unity of the human with the divine.

In a smaller field, this was the evolutionary drama of free will and creation. In a still smaller field, each atom of the physical body is a world in itself where a drama of free will and creation is occurring. The soul brings life into each atom, and each atom is a physical reflection of the soul's pattern.

With the advent of consciousness, humans became aware of sex meaning something more to them than to the animals. Sex is the "door" which new souls enter the Earth, a door unnecessary in other heavenly planetary/realms. Sex is the only means which trapped souls have of being liberated from their predicament - through the cycle of birth, death and rebirth.

The plan for the Earth cycle of souls was a limited series of incarnations with periods in between of dwelling in other heavenly dimensions of consciousness. Reincarnation would continue until a soul's every thought and action of the physical body was in accord with the plan originally laid out for the soul (i.e., a human-divine unity, Christ consciousness). When the body was no longer a hindrance to the free expression of the soul - when the conscious mind had merged with the subconscious, the Earth cycle was finished and the soul liberated to move on to new adventures. This conquest of the physical body could not be attained until there was perfection in the other dimensions of consciousness which are physically represented by our solar system. Astrologically, the goal for the soul is to attain a level of consciousness representing the total divine expression of the sun and its planets. Whichever level of consciousness the soul assumes, it becomes the focal point of activity. The other states of consciousness receded to the position of urges and influences.

The human race was fostered by a soul who had completed his experience of creation, attained Christhood, returned to God, and became a companion to God and a co-creator. This is the soul known as Jesus. The first evolutionary transformation of ape-men to **** sapiens is who the Bible refers to as "Adam". This was the beginning of the divine consciousness into flesh on the Earth. The soul known as Jesus, was one of the first souls to enter into one of the Adamic races.

The soul of Jesus was interested in the plight of its fellow souls trapped in Earth. After supervising the influx of souls into flesh, the Christ soul took form itself, from time to time, to act as a leader for the people.



At first, these souls just slightly inhabited the bodies of ape-men while remembering their true identities as spirit beings. But gradually, after many incarnations, these souls descended even further into physical consciousness and the result was a decrease in their spiritual mentality. They remembered their true selves only in dreams and in fables which were handed down from one generation to another. Religion came into being as a ritual of longing for lost spirit memories. The arts were born which included music and geometry. This knowledge was brought into the world from incoming souls who gradually forgot their heavenly source. This knowledge had to be written down, learned, and taught to each new generation.

Finally, humans were left with a conscious mind separated from their own individuality as souls. This individual identity as a soul became the subconscious mind. The individual identity or awareness of the physical world became the conscious mind. The subconscious mind (i.e., the soul) influenced the conscious mind and gave it its stature and quality. The subconscious mind dwelt in the "suit of clothes" which is the physical body and only in sleep is it disrobed.

Conscious minds, left to its own influence, will work out the plans and desires of God. Humans eventually developed theories for what they felt was true, but no longer knew to be true. The result was the creation of philosophy and theology. Humans searched and discovered higher knowledge which they carried within themselves but could no longer reach with the conscious mind. This resulted in the creation of science.

Humans evolved from having an awareness of higher spirit knowledge to having only mystical dreams, revealed religions, philosophy and theology. This evolution of consciousness ultimately reached a plateau and humans generally only believed what they could see and feel and prove in terms of their conscious minds. Then humanity began the struggle of regaining this higher knowledge.

Meanwhile, the Christ soul continued to teach and lead humanity by incarnating as the Biblical characters named Adam, Enoch, and Melchizedek. Enoch and Melchizedek experienced neither birth nor death. Then Christ soul realized after these incarnations it was necessary to give humanity a pattern by which they could follow in order to return to God. The Christ soul achieved this goal by incarnating as the personality known as Jesus, who became victorious over the death of the physical body by laying aside the ego, accepting the crucifixion of the body in order to return to God. Jesus created a pattern for humans to follow. Through the acts of leading a perfect life and becoming unjustly killed, this reversed the negative karma (i.e., the law of God, an eye for an eye) which came from Jesus' first incarnation as Adam.

What he is telling you is this.

Spirit is life. Mind is the builder and the physical is the result.

interesting shane but I'd much rather read the thoughts of posters

Any **** sapiens on hear?

Shanelee, a question for you if you don't mind answering. Do animals have souls?

On there feet.

Clarks?

Hi-Tec

Obviously i have copied & pasted but they are my thoughts.

My reason was to give people something to read.

Having something to read can make a difference to just scrolling through flippant one-liners, though they can be interesting now and again.

Ban the one
liners

Animals don`t have spiritual souls.

You know what i mean Harry

it would be nicer to be a snowflake than a human being

hi guys ,i was surprised by so many replies,and have read them all,but i am none the wiser,but i suppose the real question is
Question="is there a god"?
now if there is one ,problem solved,he made the universe,but if there is no god then its back to the drawing board.
now i have another question
Question.="Which id easier to believe?.1=There is a god or 2=everything started from nothing.
4/6 god
11/8 everything started from nothing
bets paid out on offical result only.

I once read an intriquing hypothesis that everything as we know it could be a computer simulation.  The concern with that is the possibility of us being 'switched off'.

Albert Einstein quote="there is an intelligent force running the universe"
woo hoo"was Albert talking about a computer simulation and did not realize it? it might be possible

The idea that the universe as we know it is a student's coursework is no more implausible than the idea that everything is the work of a jealous deity.

I find it impossible believe that our UNIVERSE could be a simulation, I don't think computers will ever be nearly powerful enough.
It's entirely possible I think that our (or your) existence as an individual might be simulatef, in a 1st person viewpoint, I think that's within the realms of reason.
But then that gets a bit egocentric as it implies you are the one who is centre of it all.

If you are bored of a "a brief history of time", another I liked on this area is "The Goldilocks Enigma".
It's interesting (from my recollection of it) in that it it is a bit of a multiverse thing going on, but it answers the rhetorical question "why did life exist".

What it comes down to (I think this was this book that talked about this, but regardless, it's a good concept, here is my intepretation) is that:
If you imagine a huge (infinite) amount of parallel universes, eventually there will be some that might support life.
- In those universes some will support life.
- Some will support intelligent life that is smart enough to consider "why do we exist"
- We are one of them.
- Therefore it's self selecting that we are the ones looking out, there are 10^1000000000000 universes with no life at all.

I.e. it's all reversed. It's not "the universe was benevolent enough to give us life" it's "we were lucky enough to exist,now let's think about it".

As soon as you ACCEPT the idea there might be multiverses, the above is a no brainer, it falls into place.
It's effectively: Darwin x N universes.

no, it is impossible for there to be life anywhere in this universe, including earth

When faced with questions like these I find it best ton listen to the likes of David Icke, Ron Hubbard and Forrest Gump for guidance.

Not to mention several of the esteemed members of the Betfair Forum BS brigade.

clydebank is like that kid at the birthday party that blows the birthday boys candles out just before he was about to

That's because it's not permissable under the Quran to have a birthday cake

DAvid Icke? ****. Hubbard? **** who Tom Cruise likes. Forrest Gump?
Now there is a man whose ideas I can get behind.


As his mum used to say :"Life is like a box of chocoloates, unless you say that in front of Diane Abbot, who is a moron, with a victim complex, and PLEASE don't start on that tit Lammy"

no one knows anything

FO lfc, I know a HUGE amount, I'm just wrong on a lot of it :)

The scholars of the Standing Committee said:

"It is not permissible to help others to hold these celebrations by means of money, gifts or distributing cups of tea, or by giving speeches and lectures on these occasions, because that comes under the heading of approving of them and encouraging them. Rather one should denounce them and not attend them."

I am not particularly intelligent but I am pretty sure that I know as much about this subject as brassneck , or Hawking , or Einstein
that’s a fact

that’s nothing

you see there is knowledge , and there is understanding
don’t confuse one with the other

To have knowledge without understanding can be worse than having no knowledge at all

And can lead to bigger disasters and mistakes

I think that’s where  clydebank is going wrong

If you want to know the answer to questions like that you need to go to night school .not come on a betting forum to find out