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Torquemada
08 Feb 19 18:38
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Date Joined: 27 Apr 12
| Topic/replies: 4,760 | Blogger: Torquemada's blog
Imagine a murder trial where the defendant, although pleading NOT GUILTY, is obviously guilty beyond any shred of a doubt. Lots of witnesses, video evidence etc.

Here are the questions:

1) Can the judge order (as opposed to recommend) the jury to return a guilty verdict?

2) If yes, what are his or her options if the jury returns a not guilty verdict?

I'm thinking of situations where a) the jury or their families might have been threatened or bribed; or b) the defendant committed an act of revenge and most people thought the dead person fully deserved their fate.
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Report i_agree_with_nick February 8, 2019 6:47 PM GMT
1) Can the judge order (as opposed to recommend) the jury to return a guilty verdict?


No
Report i_agree_with_nick February 8, 2019 6:57 PM GMT
Your question is very hypothetical.

I think most criminals in a scenario such as this would bribe or threaten the witnesses.
Report Torquemada February 8, 2019 7:02 PM GMT
So if the defendant is declared not guilty that's it, they're free? The judge cannot declare it a mistrial? No double jeopardy, they can never be tried again for that murder?
Report i_agree_with_nick February 8, 2019 7:08 PM GMT
The judge can't overrule a not guilty verdict.

The law regarding a retrial is, as far as understand it, very clear: an individual can only be retried for the same crime if new evidence arises.
Report jed.davison February 8, 2019 7:09 PM GMT
That is correct IAWN
Report blackbarn February 8, 2019 7:13 PM GMT
A simple google search re double jeopardy in the UK will tell you all you want to know.

As an example (down here in Sussex), Russell Bishop has been jailed for murder having previously been acquitted of the same offence on the same victims.

It is of course perfectly proper for the Judge to direct the jury on points of law and draw attention to various elements of the case.

Here is Judge Peter Cook in action - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyos-M48B8U
Report Torquemada February 8, 2019 7:19 PM GMT
Cheers.
Report tobermory February 8, 2019 8:20 PM GMT
The judge is the judge of the law.

The jury is the judge of the facts ( guilty or not )

Double Jeopardy means the crown cannot keep bringing new trials because they didn't get the guilty verdict. However a person can be retried after a not guilty verdict if significant evidence comes to light that was unknown at the time of original trial.

eg that paedo in Brighton acquitted of murdering 2 girls in the 80s was recently back in the dock for the same crime.
Report tobermory February 8, 2019 8:22 PM GMT
Oh I see Blackbarn already mentioned that one. Yes, Russell Bishop, I'd forgotten his name.
Report i_agree_with_nick February 8, 2019 8:23 PM GMT
I think the judge can overrule a guilty verdict but cannot overrule a not guilty verdict.
Report tobermory February 8, 2019 8:33 PM GMT
A judge can't overule a guilty verdict. He can direct them to return a NG and end the trial before their deliberations.
Report alun2005 February 8, 2019 8:39 PM GMT
Another hypothetical question that people in the various massively enriched arts of the UK should be asking. How far away is the day when prosecutors will not be able to achieve a guilty verdict on an open and shut piece of criminality, because of the (sympathetic) composition of the jury?
Report blackbarn February 8, 2019 9:15 PM GMT
alun - I think you are referring to a time in the future when any current minority might assume such numbers that they might, by the normal selection process, form the majority of a chosen jury.

In this case, and even NOW, the defence OR the prosecution has the right to seek to object to certain jurors to "ensure" what would in their view constitute a "balanced" jury.
Report tobermory February 8, 2019 9:31 PM GMT
SU goalie having a mare
Report Ramruma February 9, 2019 3:30 AM GMT
Good question, or it would be if for the past five centuries there were no guilty verdicts because white christian juries refused to convict white christian defendants.
Report Ramruma February 9, 2019 11:56 AM GMT
To be fair to the OP, there have been occasions when juries' reluctance to convict led to changes in the law. It was said to be one of the factors behind the abolition of capital punishment. Then there Diplock courts in Northern Ireland.

What OP needs to worry about is not  juries but witness intimidation.
Report Torquemada February 9, 2019 1:58 PM GMT
I was thinking more of revenge.
Report lybertyne February 9, 2019 2:47 PM GMT
I believe the protection of 'double jeopardy' was removed a few years ago.
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