gross misconduct ?

I have a friend who has been involved in a very similar situation that has now been investigated and dealt with. Sadly, my friend was sacked pending appeal. If the appeal is unsuccessful, it will be going to an industrial tribunal.

They probably don't consider gross misconduct as this usually results in summary dismissal.

Clearly, there is a chance of dismissal after the hearing (as it says in the company literature) but I would think that very harsh.

Written warning, imo.

Your friend will be sacked sadly, harsh, but a stupid mistake to make.

I would say that it partly depends on how much trouble he went to in order to access the information. It's human nature to want to know workmates' salaries.

Some points of advice...

1/ Ensure to keep and photocopy all paperwork as it may be removed from your friend at the disciplinary outcome.
2/ Ensure all mail is recorded delivery, both from the employer and employee.
3/ Always have a colleague/union representative present at all disciplinary meetings/appeal and allow time to discuss possible proceedings well in advance.
4/ Has your friend formally admitted in writing accessing the wages database? If so, request a printout from the I T department of the alleged viewing of info.
5/ He/she must appeal in order to have an opportunity later to go to an industrial tribunal. The route is investigation-disciplinary-appeal-ACAS-tribunal.
6/ Your friends previous employment record and length of service will be taken into consideration at all stages of the process including the tribunal.
7/ Many companies, if faced with a tribunal, fold and pay up rather than risk an outcome where the employee may be awarded wages for years to come.

Let me mention a separate case I am familiar with. The employer wrote to the company recorded delivery notifying him of the disciplinary meeting. The postman put it through the letterbox without asking the employee to sign it. He didn't go to the disciplinary meeting and was sacked in his absence. He appealed and lost. He went through acas and the employer folded and paid up as they hadn't a leg to stand on at the upcoming tribunal as they hadn't checked that the employee had received the disciplinary meeting date letter.

My mate was sacked for gross misconduct. Everyone thought it was ridiculously unfair as 'gross misconduct' hardly described his offence by most people's definition of the term. Basically, he discussed something about company strategy in a pub which got back to his employer. Bear in mind he worked in a hotel, nothing if a highly sensitive or important nature.

Anyway, he took them to an industrial tribunal and won a Pyrrhic victory of sorts - very small compensation, but no reinstatement.

Why didn't he attend the meeting? Did actually he claim he didn't receive the letter?

Yes, he claimed he hadn't received the disciplinary meeting letter from the employer. He had, of course, but the employer was only able to show that it had been sent to the post office, there was no employee signature record of it being delivered.

His workmate/friend seems to be over-reacting a bit. I suppose it's a bit late for him (the workmate) to retract any complaint and reduce the severity of the whole matter?
This might force everyone into misdemeanour mode, rather than gross misconduct.

It all seems a bit OTT in the scheme of things.

Other than that. Some bloody good posts from politicspunter.

Thanks Studyform. I am retired now but ran my own company for years. I have seen both sides of the proceedings.

Sorry, but as someone who has 'managed' many businesses employing  hundreds of personnel I have encountered such practises, he should be immediately, under 'gross misconduct law' It's called salary envy, and is  destructive in all cases.

sacked*

I know a friend of mine, a couple of years back was taken - VERY WRONGLY to a tribunal accused of unfair dismissal, by a cretinous thief, who many employers might have taken to court for what he did. Because the duty of payment for all legal proceedings falls on the employer, my mate decided to pay the scumsuckingchav, rather than the huge legal fees.
A really unfair system when the claimant is lowlife.

I mention this because of No7 on the list

Something  not right with an individual who is prepared to see his friend / work colleague sacked over something like this

'A friend has viewed a fellow workmates of his company salary details' really! you think this is defensible, wasn't he /she up to challenging his/her current salary. pathetic.

Appeals are a waste of time if the offence was proved by reasonable means and the outcome is stated in the companies HR manual.
In that case all the Appeal Panel will look at is that proper procedures were followed.

I don’t think company salaries should be secret in any event

But if they are in this case I think the friend / colleague should forget about it

I think anyone would be annoyed at the intrusion but taking it further is a bit of an overreaction given that they are friends.

A persons job is a very important thing , maybe the most important in some people’s lives
It’s a devastating thing to happen

Guys, it's called a free market, I have fallin foul of this in the past, now I know better. With all the social media attention that is available om the internet, there is no excuse, for this rubbish. GN guys and GL.

When the op says a "company appliance" could he be more specific please? It may possibly have a bearing on any disciplinary outcome. If, for example, the company intranet was accessed using someones password rather than their own, it isn't good (but how did he get the password?).  If, on the other hand, the salary details were on a usb stick or similar that had been left lying around or mistakenly left plugged into the back of a laptop/pc, that could be a different matter entirely.

I once found a list of all the employees salaries, still in the photocopier after HR used it - accidently pressed copy too

When the op says a "company appliance" could he be more specific please? It may possibly have a bearing on any disciplinary outcome. If, for example, the company intranet was accessed using someones password rather than their own, it isn't good (but how did he get the password?).  If, on the other hand, the salary details were on a usb stick or similar that had been left lying around or mistakenly left plugged into the back of a laptop/pc, that could be a different matter entirely.

politics punter - this is the sort of thing I was alluding to in my post of 22:23 yesterday.

Imo, a determined, premeditated effort to access this information is far mar serious than an incidental scenario whereby temptation got the better of him.

As I said, it's human nature to know what your colleagues are earning.

Surprised he hasn't been sacked already, presumably they are just going through the process.  Unauthorised access to a IT system is a criminal offence.

nope it may be against company guidelines but it is not a criminal act

A company would have a legal obligation to keep certain personal information private and only available to a few , such as an employees medical and health records that type of thing

However a company does not have any legal obligation to keep what employees are paid secret , that may be company policy
But that is all it is

Feb 6, 2019 -- 10:07AM, i_agree_with_nick wrote:

When the op says a "company appliance" could he be more specific please? It may possibly have a bearing on any disciplinary outcome. If, for example, the company intranet was accessed using someones password rather than their own, it isn't good (but how did he get the password?).  If, on the other hand, the salary details were on a usb stick or similar that had been left lying around or mistakenly left plugged into the back of a laptop/pc, that could be a different matter entirely.politics punter - this is the sort of thing I was alluding to in my post of 22:23 yesterday.Imo, a determined, premeditated effort to access this information is far mar serious than an incidental scenario whereby temptation got the better of him.As I said, it's human nature to know what your colleagues are earning.

Agreed, the whole outcome could probably depend on the exact circumstances. Let's just say I took over on a pc/laptop that a colleague had previously been working on. You switch it on and hey presto, it accesses a plugged in usb drive or similar and up comes the salaries for the entire organisation. Perhaps even, you sit down at a pc, move the mouse and there in front of you is the same detail because the previous user hadn't logged out properly or closed down the protected salary file.  It's impossible to say without knowing the full detail.

its difficult to know where the process has reached.

the guy accessing the info would have many defences for
what he did if claimed at the right time.

if he has admitted what he did and the motives were not
justified he might already be best advised to start searching indeed.

Let me tell you an incident that happened with regard to "divulging" info to another colleague. A young couple had started going out with each other after they met at their workplace, a major supermarket chain. They were off work and in the next town shopping at a branch of the supermarket they worked for. The guy wanted to purchase a cd but didn't have his discount card. The girl offered him hers and he purchased the cd. Anyone wish to hazard a guess as to the outcome of this transaction?

Both sacked?

Yep, both sacked.

Another issue that this raises is that, depending on the circumstances by which the employee came by his friend's salary details, has the employee responsible for the administration of salary information acted negligently and therefore should he face disciplinary action?

That is entirely possible but without knowing the full detail it's impossible to say.

anyone else accessing this information , or just himself ?

If the above is the case and the other colleague responsible for the salary info does not get disciplined, the op's friends case is much stronger, particularly if it were to reach a tribunal.

Another issue that this raises is that, depending on the circumstances by which the employee came by his friend's salary details, has the employee responsible for the administration of salary information acted negligently and therefore should he face disciplinary action?

What I meant was, should he also be facing disciplinary action in addition to the OP's friend.

Btw, I have blocked lfc because he is a nuisance.

Depending on the exact circumstances, the colleague responsible for the salary info could definitely be on the way to the jobcentre.

It seems unlikely that the op friend is the only person in the company to have accessed this info
perhaps , perhaps not

just saying , if he is in danger of losing his job
might be worth taking a little look at that

Feb 6, 2019 -- 11:50AM, politicspunter wrote:

Btw, I have blocked lfc because he is a nuisance.

Censorship is the last refuge of a loser.

It saves a lot of time on the forum simply blocking him out.

Is he not entitled to his views, newsflash: we live in the free west.

He certainly is, both of him.

It seems we are both wasting time on this now, and it was not necessary, was it?.

no