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https://www.leavemeansleave.eu/british-business-leaders-what-we-need-now-is-a-managed-no-deal-brexit/
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British business leaders, including the directors of JML and Wetherspoon, today urge that the Prime Minister must pursue a managed No Deal Brexit.
“The Government’s deal is not in the best interests of business, nor is it the only option. The Government has tried to portray Theresa May’s deal as the only one that delivers for business; that is simply not true.
“As businesses, we do not fear a managed No Deal but welcome it. A managed No Deal would be good for business.
“It would give us the flexibility to embrace global opportunities, extend global trade and focus outwards. It would give the Government the chance to run our economy and country in a way that operates in the best interests of us all.
“As leaders of companies, large and small, employing thousands of workers across the whole of the UK, we urge the Government to change course in this negotiation.
“Today’s no confidence vote must be a wake up call to all Parliamentarians. On the back of yesterday’s vote, it is clear that Theresa May’s deal is dead and increasingly a managed No Deal is the only option for the country.
“The Government and Theresa May only has itself to blame for the predicament it finds itself in today. The Government ignored large swathes of the business community and sidelined expertise and cross party voices that could have given a broader perspective on negotiations. This must change.
“The Government and MPs from all parties must now focus all their energies on laying down the path to a managed No Deal followed by comprehensive free trade deals with the European Union and the rest of the world.
“This is an opportunity the UK cannot afford to squander. The Government must change course now.”
Richard Tice Quidnet Capital
John Longworth Entrepreneur Former Director General British Chambers of Commerce
Tom Bohills Alliance of British Entrepreneurs
Sir Rocco Forte Rocco Forte Hotels
John Mills JML Ltd
Tim Martin Wetherspoon Ltd
Roger Bootle Business Economist
Edi Truell UK Strategic Investment Advisory Board
Pension SuperFund ALM Committee
Mark Roberts Loxton Developments Ltd
John May Entrepreneur Hill Houses Nexus
Arabella Arkwright Hatton World
Alistair Kelman Cashbox TV Ltd
Mark Hill Simple Accounting Ltd
Neil Westwood Magic Whiteboard Ltd
Alastair MacMillan White House Products Ltd
Lance Forman Forman Salmon
Richard Patient Thorncliffe Ltd
John Fifield Fifield Glyn Ltd
Bruce MacInnes Brand Alley
Adrian Fisher Adrian Fisher Design Ltd
Emma Pullen The British Hovercraft Company Ltd
Jeremy Hosking Hosking & Co. Asset Management
Simon Boyd Reid Steel
Johnnie Arkwright Hatton House
Ian Herbert Vistair
Christopher Nieper David Nieper Ltd
Stephen R Britt Anchor Storage Ltd
Stuart Wheeler IG Index
Viscountess Bridgeman, Bridgeman Art Library
Giles Fuchs, Office Space in Town
Jon Moulton, Better Capital
Robert Law, AGD Equipment
Arthur Jones, ANJ Executive
Brian Yeardley, Brian Yeardley Continental
Mark Wheatley, City of London
Dave Bentley, Dave Bentley Ecology Services
David Kirk, David Kirk & Co
Bill Good, Diverco
William Jones, Global Village
Graham Hutton, Hutton Collins Partners LLP
Rupert Gather, Invest UK
Chris Kelly, Keltruck Limited
Julian Morgan, KPM-Marine
Andrew Kitchen, LK2 Architects Ltd
Jamie Robb, Marlborough Tiles
Spencer Clarke, 121prodata Ltd
Anthony Smethurst, A S P Stampwise Rubber Stamp
Andrew Dixon, Andrew Dixon Photography
Angela Cook, Angies Transport Services Ltd
Colin and Annette Penny, APG Equine Limited
Philip Brooker, Arun Microelectronics Ltd
Andy Richards, ASL Catering Agency Ltd
Neil Ballantyne, Ballantynes of Walkerburn
Neville Wright, Beeson Wright Ltd
Clive Blackman, BHCG Ltd
Peter Bishop, Bishop GmbH
Steve Barson, Burley Appliances
Steve Smith, Buzz Networks Ltd
Adam Cleary, Cavenham Capital
Kevin Bell, CDM 2014
Patrick Hurd, Cintis International Ltd
Steve Ody, Citrus Travel
Geoff Townley, Commercial Gas Consultants
Chris Chatfield, Compass Travel
Gwyndaf Jones, Cwrw Da Cyf
David Watson, David Watson Transport
Michael Bilewycz, Decisis Limited
Christopher Gower, Direct Nickel Projects Limited
F.C.A Hamilton, Dscribe Ltd
Nick Berry, Early Oak Reproductions Ltd.
Ivor Chivers, Eco Solutions Limited
Julie Williams, EdgeC
Richard Debenham, Elevation Lift Services Ltd.
Mick Kelly, Elmesthorpe Projects Ltd
Dr John Hart, Endocrine Pharmaceuticals Ltd
James Blott, Engineering and Defence Sectors
Flavius Fernandes, ERPSirius Ltd
Nick Sellick, Estate Insurance Group
Dermot Glynn, Europe Economics
Richard Foleher, Everything Voice Ltd
Stu Taylor, Firenze Partners
Anthony Gibbon, Garreg Farm
Geoff Oborne, Geoff Oborne Gardening Ltd
Nick Cresswell, Glebe Engineering Ltd
Tim Trotter, Glenfern
Matthew Byrne, Greengage Lighting Limited
Trevor Honeyman, Honeyman Group Limited
William Bavin, House of Marbles & Teign Valley Glass
Darren White, Ibex Risk Management
David W Ford, Ingenica Solutions Ltd & Lightpoint Medical
Jason Mark, Rutter Jason Mark Rutter Ltd
Kevin Davies, KDM Events
Ajay Jagota, KIS Group & Dlighted
Roger Hall, Marlowe James
Ben Walker, MonkeyFist Construction and Precision Planning
Alan Graves, Norcon Computers Ltd.
Henry O’Lone, Oare Limited
Karl Pearsall, Original Thing Ltd
Peter Harris, Peter James Group
Tim Price, Price Value Partners
Colin Rennie, Rennie Park Associates
.
British business leaders, including the directors of JML and Wetherspoon, today urge that the Prime Minister must pursue a managed No Deal Brexit.
“The Government’s deal is not in the best interests of business, nor is it the only option. The Government has tried to portray Theresa May’s deal as the only one that delivers for business; that is simply not true.
“As businesses, we do not fear a managed No Deal but welcome it. A managed No Deal would be good for business.
“It would give us the flexibility to embrace global opportunities, extend global trade and focus outwards. It would give the Government the chance to run our economy and country in a way that operates in the best interests of us all.
“As leaders of companies, large and small, employing thousands of workers across the whole of the UK, we urge the Government to change course in this negotiation.
“Today’s no confidence vote must be a wake up call to all Parliamentarians. On the back of yesterday’s vote, it is clear that Theresa May’s deal is dead and increasingly a managed No Deal is the only option for the country.
“The Government and Theresa May only has itself to blame for the predicament it finds itself in today. The Government ignored large swathes of the business community and sidelined expertise and cross party voices that could have given a broader perspective on negotiations. This must change.
“The Government and MPs from all parties must now focus all their energies on laying down the path to a managed No Deal followed by comprehensive free trade deals with the European Union and the rest of the world.
“This is an opportunity the UK cannot afford to squander. The Government must change course now.”
Richard Tice Quidnet Capital
John Longworth Entrepreneur Former Director General British Chambers of Commerce
Tom Bohills Alliance of British Entrepreneurs
Sir Rocco Forte Rocco Forte Hotels
John Mills JML Ltd
Tim Martin Wetherspoon Ltd
Roger Bootle Business Economist
Edi Truell UK Strategic Investment Advisory Board
Pension SuperFund ALM Committee
Mark Roberts Loxton Developments Ltd
John May Entrepreneur Hill Houses Nexus
Arabella Arkwright Hatton World
Alistair Kelman Cashbox TV Ltd
Mark Hill Simple Accounting Ltd
Neil Westwood Magic Whiteboard Ltd
Alastair MacMillan White House Products Ltd
Lance Forman Forman Salmon
Richard Patient Thorncliffe Ltd
John Fifield Fifield Glyn Ltd
Bruce MacInnes Brand Alley
Adrian Fisher Adrian Fisher Design Ltd
Emma Pullen The British Hovercraft Company Ltd
Jeremy Hosking Hosking & Co. Asset Management
Simon Boyd Reid Steel
Johnnie Arkwright Hatton House
Ian Herbert Vistair
Christopher Nieper David Nieper Ltd
Stephen R Britt Anchor Storage Ltd
Stuart Wheeler IG Index
Viscountess Bridgeman, Bridgeman Art Library
Giles Fuchs, Office Space in Town
Jon Moulton, Better Capital
Robert Law, AGD Equipment
Arthur Jones, ANJ Executive
Brian Yeardley, Brian Yeardley Continental
Mark Wheatley, City of London
Dave Bentley, Dave Bentley Ecology Services
David Kirk, David Kirk & Co
Bill Good, Diverco
William Jones, Global Village
Graham Hutton, Hutton Collins Partners LLP
Rupert Gather, Invest UK
Chris Kelly, Keltruck Limited
Julian Morgan, KPM-Marine
Andrew Kitchen, LK2 Architects Ltd
Jamie Robb, Marlborough Tiles
Spencer Clarke, 121prodata Ltd
Anthony Smethurst, A S P Stampwise Rubber Stamp
Andrew Dixon, Andrew Dixon Photography
Angela Cook, Angies Transport Services Ltd
Colin and Annette Penny, APG Equine Limited
Philip Brooker, Arun Microelectronics Ltd
Andy Richards, ASL Catering Agency Ltd
Neil Ballantyne, Ballantynes of Walkerburn
Neville Wright, Beeson Wright Ltd
Clive Blackman, BHCG Ltd
Peter Bishop, Bishop GmbH
Steve Barson, Burley Appliances
Steve Smith, Buzz Networks Ltd
Adam Cleary, Cavenham Capital
Kevin Bell, CDM 2014
Patrick Hurd, Cintis International Ltd
Steve Ody, Citrus Travel
Geoff Townley, Commercial Gas Consultants
Chris Chatfield, Compass Travel
Gwyndaf Jones, Cwrw Da Cyf
David Watson, David Watson Transport
Michael Bilewycz, Decisis Limited
Christopher Gower, Direct Nickel Projects Limited
F.C.A Hamilton, Dscribe Ltd
Nick Berry, Early Oak Reproductions Ltd.
Ivor Chivers, Eco Solutions Limited
Julie Williams, EdgeC
Richard Debenham, Elevation Lift Services Ltd.
Mick Kelly, Elmesthorpe Projects Ltd
Dr John Hart, Endocrine Pharmaceuticals Ltd
James Blott, Engineering and Defence Sectors
Flavius Fernandes, ERPSirius Ltd
Nick Sellick, Estate Insurance Group
Dermot Glynn, Europe Economics
Richard Foleher, Everything Voice Ltd
Stu Taylor, Firenze Partners
Anthony Gibbon, Garreg Farm
Geoff Oborne, Geoff Oborne Gardening Ltd
Nick Cresswell, Glebe Engineering Ltd
Tim Trotter, Glenfern
Matthew Byrne, Greengage Lighting Limited
Trevor Honeyman, Honeyman Group Limited
William Bavin, House of Marbles & Teign Valley Glass
Darren White, Ibex Risk Management
David W Ford, Ingenica Solutions Ltd & Lightpoint Medical
Jason Mark, Rutter Jason Mark Rutter Ltd
Kevin Davies, KDM Events
Ajay Jagota, KIS Group & Dlighted
Roger Hall, Marlowe James
Ben Walker, MonkeyFist Construction and Precision Planning
Alan Graves, Norcon Computers Ltd.
Henry O’Lone, Oare Limited
Karl Pearsall, Original Thing Ltd
Peter Harris, Peter James Group
Tim Price, Price Value Partners
Colin Rennie, Rennie Park Associates
Show More
never heard of any of em.
monkeyfist must be made up
surly that herman munster lookalike from wetherspoons would make the list?
monkeyfist must be made up
surly that herman munster lookalike from wetherspoons would make the list?
Monkeyfist is the one that caught my eye too.
My next game of Football Manager I'm calling myself Malcolm Monkeyfist
My next game of Football Manager I'm calling myself Malcolm Monkeyfist
Tim's sixth on ze list.
https://www.facebook.com/MonkeyfistConstruction/ Website link doesn't seem to exist but you could try phoning them
https://www.facebook.com/MonkeyfistConstruction/ Website link doesn't seem to exist but you could try phoning them
"managed" meaning the government gives everyone on the list loadsamoney.
Monkeyfist?
Isn't that what Alan Partridge pitched to Tony Hayers after Hayers rejected 'Monkey Tennis'?
Isn't that what Alan Partridge pitched to Tony Hayers after Hayers rejected 'Monkey Tennis'?
Btw listen to how many times the BBC use the scare tactics saying "crash out of the EU" when no deal is mentioned
Btw listen to how many times the BBC use the scare tactics saying "crash out of the EU" when no deal is mentioned
I know Terry..does my nut in.If its not that its " falling off a cliff".Both expressions are designed to scare the leavers amongst us into submission.
IT AIN'T WORKING.
IT AIN'T WORKING.
we're leaving on March 29th. That is it. The nutcase is going to have to come up with a miracle to delay Article 50; & the last time i looked at her she wasn't wearing a beard & white robe. The stock answer to any question the MM decide is the flavour of the day should be "We're leaving on the 29th March" And all the agenda seeking under rock toads that are appearing, will slowly shuffle in their seats
we're leaving on March 29th. That is it. The nutcase is going to have to come up with a miracle to delay Article 50; & the last time i looked at her she wasn't wearing a beard & white robe. The stock answer to any question the MM decide is the flavour of the day should be "We're leaving on the 29th March" And all the agenda seeking under rock toads that are appearing, will slowly shuffle in their seats
You'd think so wouldn't you?
It's the default position under the EU (ECJ) rules, and what with 'us needing them more than them needing us' and them already giving us the best deal possible, then this has got to happen, no?
However, the EU will bend their rules (which they do when it suits them), the rhetoric re 'No Deal' (which it isn't. What, we will all just stop trading on March 29th will we?) will be ramped up by invertebrate media outlets, big business will rule the day and weasel-words will be used to tell us we are getting the Brexit we voted for.
Firstly, it's not to trade on WTO in perpetuity.
Taking us out of the EU's legal reach is paramount here. Once we do that we're 100% in control of our own decisions.
The EU negotiate only under two scenarios; when they're legally obliged to (as per Article 50) and when it's in their interests to do so (as per their biggest milch cow and market place walking away.)
We've recently seen air, truck and UK citizen deals agreed. Germany's auto industry has stated No Deal would be a catastrophe for them and now Merkel offers hope post-WA deal rejection.
Amazing! Just as we get closer to departing they magically come to the table. Exactly as Leavers have said from Day 1.
You'd think so wouldn't you?
It's the default position under the EU (ECJ) rules, and what with 'us needing them more than them needing us' and them already giving us the best deal possible, then this has got to happen, no?
However, the EU will bend their rules (which they do when it suits them), the rhetoric re 'No Deal' (which it isn't. What, we will all just stop trading on March 29th will we?) will be ramped up by invertebrate media outlets, big business will rule the day and weasel-words will be used to tell us we are getting the Brexit we voted for.
Firstly, it's not to trade on WTO in perpetuity.
Taking us out of the EU's legal reach is paramount here. Once we do that we're 100% in control of our own decisions.
The EU negotiate only under two scenarios; when they're legally obliged to (as per Article 50) and when it's in their interests to do so (as per their biggest milch cow and market place walking away.)
We've recently seen air, truck and UK citizen deals agreed. Germany's auto industry has stated No Deal would be a catastrophe for them and now Merkel offers hope post-WA deal rejection.
Amazing! Just as we get closer to departing they magically come to the table. Exactly as Leavers have said from Day 1.
We've recently seen air, truck and UK citizen deals agreed - what deals were these please?
Of course JS, it would be a nonsense to call them deals. They are clearly unilateral capitulations from the EU. Glad we cleared this up.
Must have upset you a bit though, after your assertions that our planes would not fly, our trucks would not drive on EU roads and we would all die of scurvy and malnutrition while attempting to subsist on root vegetables.
Must have upset you a bit though, after your assertions that our planes would not fly, our trucks would not drive on EU roads and we would all die of scurvy and malnutrition while attempting to subsist on root vegetables.
jed there is a thread on politics where i put up details of the actions that the eu has taken, indeed they have taken unilateral action in their own interest and that is not a deal. they make it quite clear that if they had not taken this action then there would have been no flights. they have issued waivers on safety provisions and have extended certain licences.
if we leave without a deal then no new routes can be set up by british airlines. we will be reduced to four of the nine freedoms of the air, that means there will be no cabotage for air passengers or air freight. this will have very severe consequences for the uk aviation sector. uk operators are moving to the eu and many of the secondary industries are likely to follow them.
they have also unilaterally stated that uk truck drivers qualifications will be recognised for nine months, but again cabotage rights have gone.
Must have upset you a bit though, after your assertions that our planes would not fly, our trucks would not drive on EU roads and we would all die of scurvy and malnutrition while attempting to subsist on root vegetables.
this is a misrepresentation of what i said with a bit of your florid nonsense tacked on, i said that if we left without a deal planes wouldnt fly and trucks wouldnt drive so in order to avoid that we would be doing lots of side deals. so, as i said on the thread where i put up the eu measures, i was wrong about side deals, its even worse as we are completely reliant on whatever decisions the eu decides to take. that you can describe this situation as unilateral capitulations is just you displaying your ignorance as usual. the aviation sector will pay a big price if we leave without a deal.
this is what the eu said of their action in december
'In aviation, there is no existing regulatory fall-back option that would allow the continuation of basic connectivity for air transport services between the EU and the UK.'
if we leave without a deal then no new routes can be set up by british airlines. we will be reduced to four of the nine freedoms of the air, that means there will be no cabotage for air passengers or air freight. this will have very severe consequences for the uk aviation sector. uk operators are moving to the eu and many of the secondary industries are likely to follow them.
they have also unilaterally stated that uk truck drivers qualifications will be recognised for nine months, but again cabotage rights have gone.
Must have upset you a bit though, after your assertions that our planes would not fly, our trucks would not drive on EU roads and we would all die of scurvy and malnutrition while attempting to subsist on root vegetables.
this is a misrepresentation of what i said with a bit of your florid nonsense tacked on, i said that if we left without a deal planes wouldnt fly and trucks wouldnt drive so in order to avoid that we would be doing lots of side deals. so, as i said on the thread where i put up the eu measures, i was wrong about side deals, its even worse as we are completely reliant on whatever decisions the eu decides to take. that you can describe this situation as unilateral capitulations is just you displaying your ignorance as usual. the aviation sector will pay a big price if we leave without a deal.
this is what the eu said of their action in december
'In aviation, there is no existing regulatory fall-back option that would allow the continuation of basic connectivity for air transport services between the EU and the UK.'
with Loathsome announcing 'another' vote date earlier; it's obvious is it not? That she/ Loathsomes sister, has no intention of broking a 'new deal'
getting sick of writing it, media ,minor parties all wetting themselves with excitement, when all may is going to do is re hash her deal bringing out some text held back before this weeks vote from the EU about backstop hopping dup can swallow it[dodds just confirmed it on tv ], get numbers down next week come back week after, only question is will Bercow allow the motions
Planes will fly. You were categorical that they wouldn't, 'florid nonsense' or not.
getting sick of writing it, media ,minor parties all wetting themselves with excitement, when all may is going to do is re hash her deal bringing out some text held back before this weeks vote from the EU about backstop hopping dup can swallow it[dodds just confirmed it on tv ], get numbers down next week come back week after, only question is will Bercow allow the motions
I graciously accept that you did change your tune when the EU announced that such a course of action would be unthinkable.
i was categorical they would not fly if nothing was done jed, you are willfully mis-stating my position. you are just trolling.
Nothing was done, at least by us. It was a unilateral declaration by the EU, so I'm not misrepresenting anything.
I told you at the time that they would blink before we did on that issue, and they did. As they have on trucks.
It's like shooting fish in a barrel, as one by one the planks of Project Fear are reduced to rubble.
It's like shooting fish in a barrel, as one by one the planks of Project Fear are reduced to rubble.
Something has to be put in place, before we leave
I would not like to survive on root vegatables
I would not like to survive on root vegatables
It's OK ebulgery, no need to panic - there is nothing to fear except fear itself.
you misrepresented what i said and what has happened. the action they have taken means that if we leave without a deal uk air industry will pay a large price. no new routes and a loss of air rights isnt a good thing.
jed how are you going to keep the planes flying when licences for pilots, planes, airlines and airports wont be valid? who is going to drive uk trucks when they reach the eu as uk licences wont be valid? as a third country without a deal there will be no animal exports from the uk, how will you mitigate this? maritime surveillance, port operations, bloodstock sports, fishing, food exports, on and on the list of areas severely areas goes.
you describe all this as a few months inconvenience - what is your basis for saying this? what research have you done? you are in for a major shock, imo.
45% of our exports go to the eu about 10% of their exports come to us, in the event of no deal its very obvious who loses most.
That is what you said, November 9th last year. Now stop lying.
you describe all this as a few months inconvenience - what is your basis for saying this? what research have you done? you are in for a major shock, imo.
45% of our exports go to the eu about 10% of their exports come to us, in the event of no deal its very obvious who loses most.
That is what you said, November 9th last year. Now stop lying.
It's there for you to peruse it, if I can find it you can.
In fact I did you a disservice, because there were so many other aspects of our lives that were going to be ruined other than our aviation industry and haulage industries.
But I'm 'in for a major shock' apparently. That shock will not at least be the realisation that I have fallen hook line and sinker for some rather obviously untrue Remain propaganda.
But I'm 'in for a major shock' apparently. That shock will not at least be the realisation that I have fallen hook line and sinker for some rather obviously untrue Remain propaganda.
Sorry, did I just invent that post or are they your words?
jollyswagman • November 9, 2018 7:27 PM GMT
prove it jed, what is your basis for saying that.
they are facts, without a deal the government will be desperately doing side deals to try and keep the country going. read the eu notices to stakeholders. the boss of heathrow has £1.6 billion set aside in case heathrow is closed for a few months.
and that is a subsequent post on the same thread. as i have said twice i was wrong there are no side deals, the eu is taking unilateral action to mitigate the worst of leaving without a deal. i was not wrong that if no action was taking these bad things would happen.
like i said, you misrepresented my position and that post i just put up explains why. that is why you wouldnt put up the thread.
prove it jed, what is your basis for saying that.
they are facts, without a deal the government will be desperately doing side deals to try and keep the country going. read the eu notices to stakeholders. the boss of heathrow has £1.6 billion set aside in case heathrow is closed for a few months.
and that is a subsequent post on the same thread. as i have said twice i was wrong there are no side deals, the eu is taking unilateral action to mitigate the worst of leaving without a deal. i was not wrong that if no action was taking these bad things would happen.
like i said, you misrepresented my position and that post i just put up explains why. that is why you wouldnt put up the thread.
Your position could not be clearer, that post I highlighted sums it. I didn't post the whole thread because I didn't really see the need. I'll leave it up to others to judge whether you have been misrepresented.
you didnt put the whole thread up because it gives context and makes it clear that i think action will be taken to stop these adverse events happening.
I didn't even read the whole thread but now I have I see the common theme.
Essentially, it was yet another conversation where the Remain representatives made a load of unsubstantiated claims about our future doom and when I pointed out their baseless hysteria, I was shot down. I'm used to it now though, so don't feel bad.
Essentially, it was yet another conversation where the Remain representatives made a load of unsubstantiated claims about our future doom and when I pointed out their baseless hysteria, I was shot down. I'm used to it now though, so don't feel bad.
The problem is that ‘Leave’ is just too complex, we are told.
And so the same people who tell us that the EU stops war, creates peace, can unite a continent’s economics and simultaneously stand as a counterpoint to American and Russian power now also tell us that no way can be found for an EU member state to leave the bloc on agreeable terms.
It’s all just too complicated, apparently.
Perhaps it would have been more honest if the voting slip in 2016 had only offered us one box to tick.
And so the same people who tell us that the EU stops war, creates peace, can unite a continent’s economics and simultaneously stand as a counterpoint to American and Russian power now also tell us that no way can be found for an EU member state to leave the bloc on agreeable terms.
It’s all just too complicated, apparently.
Perhaps it would have been more honest if the voting slip in 2016 had only offered us one box to tick.
i voted leave but want to do so in a controlled manner.
hanx you seem to want to leave without any deal and then negotiate, has that always been your position?
as bad as may's deal is i have to support it, its either that or no deal. it is after all only for the transitional period, the real negotiations are yet to come.
Fair enough.
I take the view that No Brexit at all is better than May's deal. If we strike May's deal, that is that. If we don't, and we are forced to stay in, then at some point in the very near future we will have another vote after which we will leave with no deal and no compunction.
I take the view that No Brexit at all is better than May's deal. If we strike May's deal, that is that. If we don't, and we are forced to stay in, then at some point in the very near future we will have another vote after which we will leave with no deal and no compunction.
Not always.
I would have liked to invoke Article 50 immediately after the Referendum result was declared, told Civil Service twonks to prepare for a trade exit on WTO terms (giving industry the - or 'a' - certainty they required), unilaterally guarranteed EU citizens rights in this country and defied the EU not to give reciprocal arrangements for UK citizens in Europe.
I would have actually offered citizenship to any EU passport holder that wanted to remain, had no criminal record and who had paid tax here for 5 years.
I would have told remainers that this was going to hurt in the short-term. That their project was over but the ideals of freedom, equality of opportunity, toleration and civility would not only live on but be strengthened. If they didn't like that and believed that 'winning' was more impartant then tough - and they were free to relocate to the EU.
I would not have accepted any risible notion of there being a 'Divorce Bill' to pay. It is a membership fee we have been paying and paying well since we joined The Common Market and that we would not be paying it anymore other than to honour our commitments to existing projects and pensions of British employees of the EU)
I would have outlined all the legislation that would now be possible outside the EU - from Nationalisation of the Railways (if that floats your boat), to export arrangements of live cattle to introduction of the Tampon Tax.
I would have used my speech at Davos to re-iterate that Britain is opn for business, that Brexit in itself is neither a good thing or a bad thing, but how I was going to use it would be positive, outgoing, democratic and visionary and urged global business to lobby the EU to engage constructively with these proposals.(I would not have reached into my back catalogue and scolded the technolgy companies)
I would, in short, have mobilised business, the public and the cvil service behind my position of leaving under WTO arrangements - then sat down to challenge the EU to come up with a better deal
I would have liked to invoke Article 50 immediately after the Referendum result was declared, told Civil Service twonks to prepare for a trade exit on WTO terms (giving industry the - or 'a' - certainty they required), unilaterally guarranteed EU citizens rights in this country and defied the EU not to give reciprocal arrangements for UK citizens in Europe.
I would have actually offered citizenship to any EU passport holder that wanted to remain, had no criminal record and who had paid tax here for 5 years.
I would have told remainers that this was going to hurt in the short-term. That their project was over but the ideals of freedom, equality of opportunity, toleration and civility would not only live on but be strengthened. If they didn't like that and believed that 'winning' was more impartant then tough - and they were free to relocate to the EU.
I would not have accepted any risible notion of there being a 'Divorce Bill' to pay. It is a membership fee we have been paying and paying well since we joined The Common Market and that we would not be paying it anymore other than to honour our commitments to existing projects and pensions of British employees of the EU)
I would have outlined all the legislation that would now be possible outside the EU - from Nationalisation of the Railways (if that floats your boat), to export arrangements of live cattle to introduction of the Tampon Tax.
I would have used my speech at Davos to re-iterate that Britain is opn for business, that Brexit in itself is neither a good thing or a bad thing, but how I was going to use it would be positive, outgoing, democratic and visionary and urged global business to lobby the EU to engage constructively with these proposals.(I would not have reached into my back catalogue and scolded the technolgy companies)
I would, in short, have mobilised business, the public and the cvil service behind my position of leaving under WTO arrangements - then sat down to challenge the EU to come up with a better deal
i know many dont regard her deal as brexit but it takes us out and gives time to negotiate a new deal. in the transitional period it is worse than remaining as we have no say in new rules but that will be limited to the time it takes to make the final deal (likely many years sadly). that we cant even get a deal to leave and this is the easy part is more than a bit worrying. if the vote is completely ignored i fear more jo cox type situations.
whatever anyone's position is the whole thing has exposed the westminster politicians for the useless tools they are, we dont just need to leave the eu we need fundamental reform at home. i havent got a clue what's going to happen but i have a strong dislike of the two main parties, maybe they will be finished off.
whatever anyone's position is the whole thing has exposed the westminster politicians for the useless tools they are, we dont just need to leave the eu we need fundamental reform at home. i havent got a clue what's going to happen but i have a strong dislike of the two main parties, maybe they will be finished off.
the problem & all ensuing problems is May. That really should be accentuated, She was out of her depth from day one, i can't be bothered anymore to list the errors she's contrived, or the fact she has wasted 2 1/2 years faffing about & learning Flemish. And she's still there! I therefor take it back about her not performing miracles; & have renamed her Saint Theresa of Whitehall.
Amazing isn't it?
You'd have thought 'the party of business' would have had some inkling of how to conduct a negotiation i.e have a vision of what you want, a back-up plan, some impetus and drive and never just blindly accept the other side's agenda.
That plus some (metaphorical) cojones .....
You'd have thought 'the party of business' would have had some inkling of how to conduct a negotiation i.e have a vision of what you want, a back-up plan, some impetus and drive and never just blindly accept the other side's agenda.
That plus some (metaphorical) cojones .....
if we arent prepared to honor our commitments via the divorce bill i dont think we'll get anywhere. as soon as we put any proposal to them they will immediately say 'what about our cash?'.
the trouble with leaving on wto is it only deals with tariffs. it doesnt deal with regulatory conformity so exporters would be faced with major hurdles. third country controls are onerous and like it or lump it we will end up adopting regulations that fit with the eu or we wont be selling to their market which will always remain important to us. the services sector, where we do well, would be inconvenienced massively, they will have to physically have offices within the eu.
imo no deal likely involves severe pain, it doesnt matter how much mitigation is done (and the work should have started as soon as cameron decided to have a referendum) how it actually plays out is down to how the eu reacts, just how many of its rules will it follow. today i heard it described as mutually assured destruction and that seems about right, they dont seem ready for no deal either. so they will move but they will move at their pace seeking to minimise disruption to themselves, as they have done with air and freight. i just dont think we have enough leverage to take this approach.
the trouble with leaving on wto is it only deals with tariffs. it doesnt deal with regulatory conformity so exporters would be faced with major hurdles. third country controls are onerous and like it or lump it we will end up adopting regulations that fit with the eu or we wont be selling to their market which will always remain important to us. the services sector, where we do well, would be inconvenienced massively, they will have to physically have offices within the eu.
imo no deal likely involves severe pain, it doesnt matter how much mitigation is done (and the work should have started as soon as cameron decided to have a referendum) how it actually plays out is down to how the eu reacts, just how many of its rules will it follow. today i heard it described as mutually assured destruction and that seems about right, they dont seem ready for no deal either. so they will move but they will move at their pace seeking to minimise disruption to themselves, as they have done with air and freight. i just dont think we have enough leverage to take this approach.
these where the lies come in when the brexiteers tell most of the world trades on wto terms,according to a trade expert on sky earlier they don't almost no one does, they trade on deaLS they've made whilst under the umberella of wto,so for a period of time we go from a G7 trading country to a tinpot 3rd world countryive no idea which is true,but if the ERG explained it in these terms after all this time they,d become a laughing stock,media pundits just take it as fact that we trade and the rest of the world trade on wto terms whilst expert after expert in trade say no country you,ve ever heard of actually does,
erg are the biggest liars in the whole debacle, personally i blame them most for us ending up with such a bad deal. only a couple of days ago mcvey was saying some rubbish about a transitional period if we leave without a deal 
I think mrs may gives the game away when she says they may be willing to put in legal text that workers rights,enviromental rights,health,food regulation etc, think most people would take this as a given but if mrs may is thinking of making such things legaly binding in the future relationship, in shows that in the wrong hands ie the ERG,boris and co will be trading their granny for a gooddeal and if we have to let the usual example chol chicken in from the usa so be it,and if we have to become Singapore on thames tax haven to entice trade , business here so be it, all this whilst cuddly duddly rees mog goes on about childrens shoes,baby clothes etc,etc,
not saying any of the above is right or wrong but lets at least have some honesty
anyone thinking rees mogg has spent his whole life wanting to reduce vat,tariffs on childrens footwear,needs their bumps feeling
not saying any of the above is right or wrong but lets at least have some honesty
anyone thinking rees mogg has spent his whole life wanting to reduce vat,tariffs on childrens footwear,needs their bumps feeling
I think mrs may gives the game away when she says they may be willing to put in legal text that workers rights,enviromental rights,health,food regulation etc, think most people would take this as a given but if mrs may is thinking of making such things legaly binding in the future relationship, in shows that in the wrong hands ie the ERG,boris and co will be trading their granny for a gooddeal and if we have to let the usual example chol chicken in from the usa so be it,and if we have to become Singapore on thames tax haven to entice trade , business here so be it, all this whilst cuddly duddly rees mog goes on about childrens shoes,baby clothes etc,etc,
not saying any of the above is right or wrong but lets at least have some honesty
anyone thinking rees mogg has spent his whole life wanting to reduce vat,tariffs on childrens footwear,needs their bumps feeling
not saying any of the above is right or wrong but lets at least have some honesty
anyone thinking rees mogg has spent his whole life wanting to reduce vat,tariffs on childrens footwear,needs their bumps feeling
if we arent prepared to honor our commitments via the divorce bill i dont think we'll get anywhere. as soon as we put any proposal to them they will immediately say 'what about our cash?'.
Okay, what about 'their' cash?
I've said how I would have arrived at an easily identifiable, itemised amount, based on our commitment to existing infrastructure projects and EU pension commitments for British citizens employed by the EU. That is fair and moral.
But as we have seen with thei cavalier attitude to auditing accounts, production of an itemised bill of what we get for what we pay is not the EU's strong suit. Witness their throwing around of any number of figures (up to £100bn was mooted in some quarters) as the 'payment first - then talks' agenda (which is a wholly bogus agenda any way as I pointed out).
As I said, if the EU could offer a better deal than WTO, then this should have been scrutinised and any payment by us clearly delinated so we knew what we were getting for what we wre paying.
All too late for this now of course....
Okay, what about 'their' cash?
I've said how I would have arrived at an easily identifiable, itemised amount, based on our commitment to existing infrastructure projects and EU pension commitments for British citizens employed by the EU. That is fair and moral.
But as we have seen with thei cavalier attitude to auditing accounts, production of an itemised bill of what we get for what we pay is not the EU's strong suit. Witness their throwing around of any number of figures (up to £100bn was mooted in some quarters) as the 'payment first - then talks' agenda (which is a wholly bogus agenda any way as I pointed out).
As I said, if the EU could offer a better deal than WTO, then this should have been scrutinised and any payment by us clearly delinated so we knew what we were getting for what we wre paying.
All too late for this now of course....
This notion of it being a 'divorce' is an interesting one too, isn't it?
The idea that there is a 'divorce bill' to negotiate - you don't negotiate bills; you pay them!
Secondly that you get divorced solely on the basis of you establishing the future relationship you want with your former partner!
Eh?!!!
You'd like to think you will have a civil relationship with your former partner but I imagine one gets divorced to pursue a better life elsewhere.
Been precious little exposition of what this better life may look like, probably because Remainers have hijacked the microphone and Leavers have not stepped up to the plate when its been presented to them (Johnson, Gove, rees Mogg, Farage et al)
The idea that there is a 'divorce bill' to negotiate - you don't negotiate bills; you pay them!
Secondly that you get divorced solely on the basis of you establishing the future relationship you want with your former partner!
Eh?!!!
You'd like to think you will have a civil relationship with your former partner but I imagine one gets divorced to pursue a better life elsewhere.
Been precious little exposition of what this better life may look like, probably because Remainers have hijacked the microphone and Leavers have not stepped up to the plate when its been presented to them (Johnson, Gove, rees Mogg, Farage et al)
Been precious little exposition of what this better life may look like, probably because Remainers have hijacked the microphone and Leavers have not stepped up to the plate when its been presented to them (Johnson, Gove, rees Mogg, Farage et al)
probably the most succint post on here in recent weeks. I've been saying very similar (to anyone who listens) but not so eloquently
probably the most succint post on here in recent weeks. I've been saying very similar (to anyone who listens) but not so eloquently
owen Patterson on again wto no problem ,don't blame the interviewer he probably doesn't no,but why don't they get a trade,wto expert up against the likes of pattterson and starting getting some truth put these erg guys under pressure to prove their thoughts are right
i've grown a bit tired of the divorce analogy, we wont be pursuing a better life elsewhere as we will still have the eu as our biggest trading partner. there is no conceivable way we will make up any lost trade from the eu. its a simple fact that you do most trade with those closest to you so the eu will always be important to us.
i completely disagree about remainers hijacking the microphone, the erg and their clueless think tanks never struggle for air time. the problem is the erg havent a clue what they are talking about, they lie then lie some more. a more clued up press would ask them fairly simple questions which would expose how fraudulent they are. none of them have spent any time thinking about what our future relationship should look like. many of those who now scream for leaving without a deal were the ones who said it would all be so easy, they are clueless.
for me the best case is made by the leave alliance but they get zero publicity and have been shunned by the tory ultras.
i completely disagree about remainers hijacking the microphone, the erg and their clueless think tanks never struggle for air time. the problem is the erg havent a clue what they are talking about, they lie then lie some more. a more clued up press would ask them fairly simple questions which would expose how fraudulent they are. none of them have spent any time thinking about what our future relationship should look like. many of those who now scream for leaving without a deal were the ones who said it would all be so easy, they are clueless.
for me the best case is made by the leave alliance but they get zero publicity and have been shunned by the tory ultras.
owen Patterson on again wto no problem ,don't blame the interviewer he probably doesn't no,but why don't they get a trade,wto expert up against the likes of pattterson and starting getting some truth put these erg guys under pressure to prove their thoughts are right
owen Patterson on again wto no problem ,don't blame the interviewer he probably doesn't no,but why don't they get a trade,wto expert up against the likes of pattterson and starting getting some truth put these erg guys under pressure to prove their thoughts are right
i see you are having similar problems as my good self, 1stTP
I think (given both sides obsession with winning) there has been no understanding of the work to do if we do get a proper Brexit.
This whole 'have your cake and eat it' nonsense is precisely that and never had any traction with me.
What I would like to see (as I outlined above) is a recognition of the basic decency of the majority of Remeiners and the values they have - toleration, belief in democracy, equality of opportunity etc - and how they can be driven forward post-Brexit.
Make it about their - well, I hope, all of our - core values, rather than calling them losers and forgetting about them.
Brexit initself is nothing (yup, you read that correctly).
What we make of Brexit and how hard we are prepared to work to achieve it - now there's the rub!
This whole 'have your cake and eat it' nonsense is precisely that and never had any traction with me.
What I would like to see (as I outlined above) is a recognition of the basic decency of the majority of Remeiners and the values they have - toleration, belief in democracy, equality of opportunity etc - and how they can be driven forward post-Brexit.
Make it about their - well, I hope, all of our - core values, rather than calling them losers and forgetting about them.
Brexit initself is nothing (yup, you read that correctly).
What we make of Brexit and how hard we are prepared to work to achieve it - now there's the rub!
the erg lot wont debate actual trade experts because they will be exposed as liars, i follow several on twitter and they mock the ignorance of the erg when they put out some new drivel.
Dmitry Grozoubinski on twitter @DmitryOpines is good, he is an australian former wto negotiator. he says he offers no opinion on brexit itself just on what different people say about trade. he is sometimes thought of as anti brexit but points out that is because it is mainly the brexit supporting bluffers who are talking sh1te.
Dmitry Grozoubinski on twitter @DmitryOpines is good, he is an australian former wto negotiator. he says he offers no opinion on brexit itself just on what different people say about trade. he is sometimes thought of as anti brexit but points out that is because it is mainly the brexit supporting bluffers who are talking sh1te.
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