Dr David Kelly - 1.01 Landed

1.01 ?
Betting was suspended years ago

not more tripe : (

The one doubt I have about him having been murdered is motive. Didn't his death simply shine the spotlight once more on the sexed-up dossier? Surely it would have been more sensible just to ignore him. After all, he'd already revealed what Blair's government was up to, and they still went ahead with the war anyway, so what was the point in killing him?

If I were Colombo, I'd be looking for someone other than the government with a motive for murdering him, a motive completely unconnected with the dodgy dossier. You could make it look like an obviously faked suicide attempt in order to try and divert everyone's attention away from yourself and direct it instead towards the obvious suspects in Whitehall.

Hutton was hand picked. The despicable Campbell was called to give evidence. Why not? He lies very well..

Until there's a coroners inquest the truth will be hidden.

The absence of a coroners inquest speaks volumes , surely

grappler; did you enjoy your lunch?

i did actually. a few bottles of sierra nevada and a bottle of pinot noir with me roast beef. very agreeable. on the downgrade now with mitolo shiraz(the best value wine in the world)

murdered 1/1000000000

have some VP, grappler, it will make the day end well

i do not drink rubbish.

sadly, there is nothing to be done with conspiracy loons who will believe the unbelievable no matter what. they are immune to reason, because they know nothing and think they are clever by disbelieving everything, unless it supports their infantile world-view.

The cover up ensured this story would run and run. Nowt to hide? Go with the coroner's inquest,simple.

grappler - refrain from childish behaviour and name calling. Discuss facts.

Firstly, why no coroner's inquest? Secondly, of the details revealed how come he apparently cut his wrists but Plod said there was little blood?

The world is full of naive people Injera. They think that only the KGB and MSS bump people off. You are wasting your time.

very well said grappler good posts , unfortunately the working classes are incapable of logical thought

At least we don`t drink cheap wine and condone vile and disgusting replies to Injera`s opening question.

I like you lfc. You are a very funny guy.

Greatest fisherman on the internet.

Mac , instead of complaining about grapplers post I suggest you read it and try and be thankful , it’s not rude
It’s the truth
Don’t confuse one with the other

Now ask yourself this simple question , why would the British secret service want Kelly dead  , what point would it serve ?

the 1.01 is that you are an epic cretin. kelly did himself in, and quite rightly; he was a knobhead. kellys statement that he would be found dead in the woods is evidence that he hanged himself in woodland, not the opposite, yfsc. every aspect of this has been dissected and there is zero evidence to support conspiracy bollox from wanchors like you.

So calling Injera a CRETIN, a F****** Silly C*** and a W*N*E* in response to a question is not rude lfc?

Come on lfc we may disagree at times but you are better than that no matter whether it`s grappler or injera that are right.

yep , slightly rude words , but you have to put them in context

lfc is not a fisherman, themightymac, he is an agent provocatuer who wants to cause vexatious litigant

you see injera was rude to grappler , perhaps moreso

Read it again

in context that grappler thinks that Kelly wasn`t murdered?

Now mighty Mac there’s baphornet

Now who do you think is being rude now
See what I mean ?

I think injera was more than polite in his response.

You see there are rude words , and there are rude people
I don’t think grappler was any more rude than injera ot baphornet

Don’t be fooled by baphornets slippery words

Nevertheless it doesn’t matter , the important thing is to listen to grappler
That’s all

Why would the British government want Kelly dead?

Perhaps because he had sufficient knowledge and authority to destroy their entire case for war (WMD) at a time when public feeling against the war was high.

No he didn’t

Whether he was murdered or not is open to debate. Is it possible? Of course it is. Did it actually happen? I don`t know for sure but there is conflicting evidence.

Hutton declared that the principal cause of death was bleeding from a self-inflicted knife wound on Dr Kelly's left wrist.

Yet Dr Nicholas Hunt, the pathologist who carried out the post-mortem examination on Dr Kelly, stated that he had cut only one blood vessel – the ulnar artery.

Since the arteries in the wrist are of matchstick thickness, severing just one of them does not lead to life-threatening blood loss, especially if it is cut crossways, the method apparently adopted by DrKelly, rather than along its length.

The artery simply retracts and stops bleeding.

The information that Britain relied on came largely from Iraqi spy’s

This turned out to be unreliable , partly perhaps because these spy’s were themselves anti the sadism regime

It is a lesson learnt to be very careful where the info comes from

* spies * saddam

lfc1971 • January 13, 2019 8:06 PM GMT
No he didn’t

WOW

It`s possible what you say above lfc. I don`t know for sure and neither do you.

You see you can’t trust intelligence from a foreign country necessarily
Individuals have an agenda and may furnish their own take on things , exaggerate in the hope of persuading Britain and others to help
That’s what happened

Unless you formerly worked for MI5?

.... more likely though that you worked for MFI

lfc: Mac , instead of complaining about grapplers post I suggest you read it and try and be thankful , it’s not rude
It’s the truth



No offence but that's priceless!

Unless you formerly worked for MI5?

........ but more likely you worked for MFI

.... that was for lfc

Sorry double post.

: ) now you see who’s being rude , it’s a question of perception isn’t it ?
That’s what I meant

How can I be rude when according to you I'm 'incapable of logical thought'?

I plead ignorance based on my working class status.

Meanwhile, back in the sane world, Kelly was murdered to further Blair's carnage in the Middle East.

Injera you must admit that you were rather rude calling grappler childish for him calling you a CRETIN, S**** F****** C**** and W***** when as lfc rightly states that he was merely telling the truth!!

That’s not very logical now is it injera ?

lfc lighten up and get a sense of humour

“ how can I be rude when according to you I’m incapable of logical thought “

Hmmm.  , no that still doesn’t seem to make any sense

tmm -

I humbly apologise to all. lfc - it's a forum. Opinions vary. Lighten up.

Good that’s much nicer ;)

People who were against the war seem to want to think that kelly was murdered
The two things are not related   , the war was going ahead based on evidence that was faulty
There seems to be a need for the anti war zealots to make Blair or the British government responsible for his death

Untrue. The Kelly case has more holes in it than a string vest. Of course one can work backwards from the Iraq war to find a motive.

But that's not needed here.. The breaking of protocol by Plod and the Govt will come to light. Give it another 20 years though...

Blair and Campbell lied incessantly throughout the whole Iraq tragedy. If they told me today was Sunday I would check my diary...

A similar mentality can’t to the fore with the Salisbury poisoning’s
The usual suspects wanted to blame the torie government ir British intelligence or porton  down
And nothing would persuade them otherwise
Injera mayhave been one of them , I don’t know

You see that’s what I meant when I said the working classes , and others.  , were not capable of logical thought

grappler said much the same thing.  He was right

By the way the names of the Iraqi spies who supplied the false information are known so it’s not a matter of having to be in Mi5

They were trusted , but that can be a mistake when you are dealing with people from that part of the world

lfc1971 - how do you know all this without doing any research ?

Great song about it:

Harrowdown Hill by Thom Yorke

Don't walk the plank like I did
You will be dispensed with
When you've become
Inconvenient

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8ybWaIvmaM

I never thought he did take his own life...

Not hard to think of some who would have taken his life.

It was important to some parties that we did agree to invade Iraq.

These parties feared if Blair said there is not sufficient evidence of WMD to justify an invasion of Iraq

then Bush may have decided it against invasion himself.


r.i.p David Kelly


ps I was against the invasion myself.

As long as successive governments refuse a coroners inquest, I think us conspiracy theorists may well have this

one right.


It also suggests Blair's decision for us to invade Iraq, was supported by the Conservative party.

One would have thought, surely the Conservatives would allow an inquest, to embarrass Labour.

The reasoning behind my previous post...right or wrong?

wmd in 45 mins stike

initally never mentioned where though

made out it was us  but it was in the MED  ho ho

UBLE/REGY - Can't argue with your last two posts .

conspiracy loons believe what they want to believe and post whatever nonsense they like, and when it turns out to be rubbish, they forget about it, and move on to the next one. remember hilda murrell? killed by mi5 they all said. when the real killer was caught, there was no admittance of being gullible or foolish, it was forgotten. when the salisbury poisonings occurred they rubbished the british govt. claims by reducing the case to one of moral equivalence with russia, that we are just as bad and the russians wouldnt do anything so blatant and what was in it for them? now... nothing. move on to then next one. no acceptance of being wholly wrong.

diana? killed by mi5. jfk? the cia. kelly? mi5 again. when fools like mac say we are dupes for only believing the kgb murder people he could have named a few of the prominent journalists, dissidents, or activists that have been killed by the security services. but there arent any. measure that against the legions of opponents murdered by putin, or xi in china. it is a myth that we are just as bad, and those that say we are make themselves useful idiots doing service to those who will do us harm.

corbyn( a long-standing supporter of cuban dictators, and a man who holidayed in the police state that was east germany) and his mentor seumas milne are not interested in the putins staggering list of crimes; he is anti-western, thats enough.

i dont drink cheap wine. mitolo is expensive.

Is everything we are told by our government true grappler?????????

Why would David Kelly have committed suicide over a disagreement with our government?

If David Kelly was wrong and Iraq did have WMD's why did we not find them????????????

I don't think all experts agree, they don't usually commit suicide over it.

Unless there was another reason he committed suicide we do not know of?


All suggestions accepted.

ebul read grapplers post , read it slowly, then read it again

and try to understand

Unless there was another reason he committed suicide we do not know of?

I'm sure it will all come out at the inquest .......

That’s my suggestion , thanks

i didnt say we should believe everything or anything from the govt. that does not mean he was murdered by it. the fact he said he might be found dead in the woods is the most compelling evidence, aside from the bottle of tranquilisers he took, that he did kill himself, not the reverse, as posited by the op.

why would he kill himself, you ask? i dont know, and nor do you, nor does anyone, but the heavy probability is that he did. the conspiracists, though, will not have it. it may happen that incontrovertible evidence will emerge that he was killed but western security services seem to operate with such chilling efficiency that nobody ever breaks rank and spills the beans; witness the amazing silence from the vast numbers of u.s perpetrators of the 9/11 deception.

a point i laboured to make is that web-based conspiracy theories are damaging to us all because they throw up a fog of suspicion about everything, disregarding accident or ****-up, thereby aiding those who seek to profit from western confusion and anger, justified or not. it is instructive that conspiracists have no interest in far more convincing theories emanating from elsewhere, e.g russias apartment bombings, for which there is real evidence, not the usual confirmation bias. but they are not interested unless it involves the cia, mi5, etc

this might be a reflection on their comparatively benign nature. you can say what you like, they wont kill you. the fsb and the mss definitely will. no conspiracy there.

I recalled the Liberal MP, Norman Baker, giving a presentation about the death of Dr David Kelly.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TXLXhiJfFv4

And another from James Corbett, an excellent researcher whose work is always impressive.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0CPEdj11OoU

james corbett impressive? stick to poker. he is an anarch0-conspiracist loon who also denies that climate-change is happening. do you believe that also? baker is a sixth-rate polotico who belongs on this forum. i could have stuck up voodoo history by aaronovitch to make the opposite point far more compellingly, but unlike you, i can formulate my own arguments, and do not have to be told what to think by others, let alone stupid others like baker

grappler - where was the blood? The report said he slashed his wrists yet Plod said there was little blood. The knife had no finger prints on it and Kelly was not wearing gloves.

Why no inquest? Why the Hutton Inquiry? No need for that sham when all you needed was a coroner and a team of experts.

Hutton had NO experience of a coroner's duties. The absence of key witnesses is glaring. And who appointed Hutton? None other than Blair's old flatmate Lord Falconer.

There's even a suggestion Kelly's body was exhumed and cremated.

I guess you also know it won't be 20,30 or even 50 years before files are released. It will be 70 (seventy) years...

Five doctors who made an application to the Oxford coroner to have the inquest reopened have been told Lord Hutton made a ruling in 2003 to keep medical reports and photographs closed for 70 years. "This is a revelation," said Michael Powers QC, a former assistant coroner and expert in coronial law. "I can't think of anything that would justify these documents being treated any differently."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/jan/25/david-kelly-suicide-hutton-inquiry

I agree with you injera....this does not look very good?


It is actually a credit to our society, that we allow criticisms of our government on places like here

and elsewhere. It is called FREE SPEECH. we must not lose it, even if some of us seem to over use it at

times

It is a sign of a healthy society


I cannot understand all the secrecy surrounding the death of David Kelly...unless there is something to hide?

It could be a military secret has to be hidden, but does not have the look of that.

We are protecting someone.

Or more than one of course.

David Kelly could have been a very temperamental man, or had other problems which contributed to his suicide.

The very fact that this being suppressed tells us this not above board, or why suppress it?

Circumstances of the death seem odd but not sure what anyone gained by killing him. Whatever happened though Alistair Campbell has blood on his hands.

I think there was a lot more stake stake than you realise A_T

No I am not putting it up...not a lot of use this post really

There were those that wanted rid of Saddam Hussain...

They would have killed more than David Kelly to ensure that happened.

Not that I know anything for certain...as long as our government covers up

We can use our imagination

it wasnt kelly , thats why its all closed, somebody elses body
was substituted in as he was embarassed.

hes now doing panto with elvis and lord lucan

You have got it in one Donny

Grappler.

If you would care to read my post again, sir, you will note that I did not support the sentiments expounded on the death of Dr Kelly in either of those two videos. I merely listed them for any interested forumites to view should they so wish. As it happens, I do not believe David Kelly was murdered. There are many inconsistencies in the Hutton Report that warrant suspicion to be sure, but not enough evidence to cry murder in my view.

I stand by my endorsement of James Corbett. He is a reseacher of superb credentials. You might be wise in future, dear chap, to follow his example of calm, balanced debate and steer clear of baseless ad hominem.

Best wishes.

Why did the government not point the finger of suspicion at Russia , or is that a more recent tactic ?

Putin was not president of Russia until 2012 Reynard....so we could not point a finger of suspicion at

Russia then.

I watched the first of those videos Pokermonster, it confirms my own belief, if the 2nd is the same as the

first, then I can why our government may well postpone any enquiry until Mr Tony Blair is no longer with us.

IMPEACHMENT...erm we want to avoid that.

Ah Pokermonster...the 2nd video contradicts the first...it puts all the blame on the BBC

Andrew Gilligan in particular. It appears he was the one who said the report on Iraq had been sexed up

not David Kelly.

Well that puts a rather different slant on things.

Still David Kelly's suicide contains many incongruities. So he still may have been murdered in the belief

he had said that.

WMD's were never found either.

Lessens the blame slightly on Tony Blair, if DR David Kelly had not in fact said that.

I still don't think we should have joined Bush in the attack on Iraq.

There have been far too many attacks by us on the Middle East in my opinion, and far too many bodies.


For a situation we caused ourselves coming up to 100 years ago now.

When we liberated Arabia from the Ottamen Turks we should have stayed out for good.


just my own opinion

Indeed, sir. :)

I don't entirely subscribe to the views aired in either video. I just recalled them from the time and pasted links so any interested parties could judge for themselves.

Best wishes.

Very fair of you Pokermonster


I still do not think we should have invaded Iraq, in fact I have never approved of any of our interference in

the Middle East.

These so called WMDS of mass destruction, apart from Nuclear Weapons, they do not work?

If Saddam had had Nuclear Weapons there is no way we would have invaded would we?

All the problems in the Middle East emanate from one source in my opinion, which people see or they don't.

If I put it up I would immediately be misjudged, so I am not.


This invasion was only 2 years after 9/11, Bush was still in a state of shock. He panicked when he heard

the word WMD's. But if Blair had not agreed to go in with him, he may not have invaded?


I do not think any enquiry into David Kellys death will be reopened until Blair has passed on.

Bush also asked France to go in with him into Iraq.. But they refused.

The American's punished France for this, by withholding some of their latest high tech stuff, which they gave
to us.

Mind you France got back in Americas good books when it was Gadhafi's turn to be knocked over. They were first in, in was more in there bailiwick as well

The problem is we cannot fight terrorism with war only. We also have to win heart and minds. Which the Americans have ignored.

Also are we now really free of any Terrorist threat, of course not, I give up.

UBLE/REGY    Joined: 11 Mar 10
Replies: 778 15 Jan 19 00:44 
Putin was not president of Russia until 2012 Reynard....so we could not point a finger of suspicion at
Russia then


i despair. putin has been in charge in russia since 2000. bush, clinton, obarma, been and gone. trump will go. putin endures. the way of the world is going in a dangerous direction, and it aint down to trump, however absurd he is. wanchors like you pay no heed to the genuinely scary machinations of putin, xi and co. no threads about them. you are a very stupid person. i pity you, and hope you have no family.

poker. corbett loses any credibility immediately by denying global warming is happening, the evidence is overwhelming. he might be right, but an avalanche of people who have spent their life studying this say otherwise. i know who i will go with. he is a contrarian, and not a very interesting or clever one.

grappler

yes you are right...nearly
Putin was President of Russia from 2000 - 2008, and then from 2012 - now
so apologies

the genuinely scary machinations of putin, xi and co

can you enlarge on this? What scary machinations?

You have to remember that Putin is President of RUSSIA not this country.
So he works for the interest of Russia and Russian's everywhere....that was his election pledge.

When the Soviet Union collapsed a lot of Russians found themselves in countries which were no longer
part of Russia...his pledge is to stand up for them.

He supports Assad in Syria because he sell arms to Assad and has bases in Syria.

Putin is not our enemy.


I am loyal to this country ,but when we do wrong I will say so, I amake full use of FREE SPEECH.


More than most perhaps

No one has to agree with me, I argue my case.


I do not think our Government or Media always tell us the truth tbh.

So I think for myself