Have there been any middle class professional boxers of a decent standard?

Richard Dawkins thinks he’s one

Actually, I think Ali might have been from a middle class background.

Plenty have had a university education, vis-a-vis Nathan Cleverly, ‘Bonecrusher’ Smith and, ahem, Audley Harrison to name a few.

Nicky Piper

that is so weird. i was having this exact conversation with a pal earlier today. you need an edge in boxing, need to be a bit nasty.
my son boxes at amateur level & he's decent ( 6 & 0 so far) but i'm under no illusions. he doesn't have the killer instinct & i'm delighted about that.
being "middle class" or otherwise isn't really the issue. speed is the most important virtue, then you have to be able to take a punch then you have to
have the mentality to disable someone.
i have very mixed feelings about boxing. it has done wonders for my lads confidence, the people at his boxing club are the salt of the earth but it is
a sport where the objective is to punch someone

Lennox Lewis?

I recall a Nicky Piper fight where he knocked his opponent out in about twelve seconds... including the count!

Klitchko brothers as well

Not many folks know that Frank Bruno once studied economics at the University of Melbourne.

Oct 23, 2018 -- 2:46PM, Pokermonster wrote:

Not many folks know that Frank Bruno once studied economics at the University of Melbourne.

Poor Frank,my brothers mate went to his book signing was only a handful there he was standing in line in front of the table waiting to get his book signed Frank was hanging about then joined the back of the queue.
His manager person had to go over and tell him he was supposed to be sitting at the table to do the signings,true story pretty sad.

the middle  classes don't really have a fighting mentality for sure   ...most of these boxers come from the real rough hoods do they not ?

Working class people have more fight in them, bigger balls and a bigger heart, stronger urge to get to the top and make something of themselves, something middle classes just could never relate to as when you're born into a family and life of comfort, everything from there on in just becomes easier. That doesn't mean middle class sportsman can't be great because they can and they have, Ayrton Senna, Federer, Tiger Woods, but they all would have made it in life anyway with the bank of mum and dad to fall back on.

just far more likely that will be the background of a boxer. the same is true of football. there are far more "working class" people in the world.
look how brutal some of the mexican fighters are. they really are battling their way out of poverty

I didn't know Bonecrusher had a university education. I seem to remember he was a prison officer - even after he turned pro.

People from poorer backgrounds often don't have the career options that are available to middle class folk.

i don't know if there is any medical research to prove it  but i'd say the middle class males have  far lower testosterone in general  ...how that comes about i don't know  ...but it's probably an evolutionary thing   (plus there are fewer m/c males to start with )

Oct 23, 2018 -- 2:51PM, Coachbuster wrote:

the middle

Oct 23, 2018 -- 2:51PM, Coachbuster wrote:

the middle

WTF????
Response to coachbuster 8:51

Aye probably because Boxing's been used successfully as a tool for controlling young tearaways.

of the road ? 

'Aye probably because Boxing's been used successfully as a tool for controlling young tearaways.'

that as well

Plenty of middle class rugby players.

I'm sure they can be ruthless too. George Walker once said something along the lines of, "the hardest men I know wear a pin-stripe suit and carry a briefcase."

easy to look hard when you spend most of your days in the gym and are over 6ft, Rugby is essentially a middle class sport as is Cricket. Boxing and Football are working class sports. Though Rugby is definitely tougher than NFL.

Just in my own opinion:

Boxing is probably the most brutal sport there is, the objective is to beat up your opponent
who will attempt to do the seem to us.

Children with some athletic ability(not all men have this..including me) will almost always chose another sport if they can.

Still if someone has the talent and the guts those that reach the top can make their fame and fortune.

Better than just an ordinary job.

Audly Harrison has a university education?
Did not seem to help him much against David Haye, Audly should always have stayed as an amateur.

Poor old Frank Bruno, dumped by his missus when things turned bad, oh well.

I thought he was very good at his best, unfortunately ran into Tyson when he was at the top of his game.

Once you start as a boxer it is indeed hard.

Oct 23, 2018 -- 3:09PM, Coachbuster wrote:

i don't know if there is any medical research to prove it

Oct 23, 2018 -- 3:09PM, Coachbuster wrote:

i don't know if there is any medical research to prove it

god damn it why can't i quote & post
anyway i doubt that is true

rugby union yes, it's middle class..but how many middle class guys actually play rugby after leaving school ?   ....more likely to be out cycling,cricket  ,running or at the tennis club or more likely not even into sport  .

Middle class and aggression rarely mix   ...whether its a testosterone link i'm not qualified to assess ,but even so  they probably have less to be angry about and maybe less of a persecution complex

i think you need to get over the testosterone thing
probably true about motivation tho. btw lots of people continue playing rugby, if not there would not be any rugby clubs

middle class guys tend to  more effeminate (generally) which is why they more likely succeed  at school ....  masculine guys see educating themselves at a young age  as being slightly ,well ...uncool or even sissy, for want of a better term  .

working class guys more likely to educate themselves  in their own time later in life, and in subjects relevant to them  rather than to forge a career  ...in the mean time they are more likely to play or watch sports almost in a tribal like manner .

since the middle classes have been attending soccer matches  the atmosphere has gotten a lot more 'pleasant'  and family orientated

northanlite ...but it's quite possibly linked ,after all testosterone levels and  aggression go hand in hand

northanlite ,but rugby union is a minority sport in the UK ...why might this be    ...in fact i'd wager there are as many working class guys playing that particular sport

plenty masculine men are not unnecessarily aggressive. if they are there are probably other reasons

i guess rugby is a minority sport but quite a big minority (if that makes sense) there are hundreds of clubs at various levels

agreed that there are masculine men who aren't aggressive even under provocation  ...but lets not beat around the bush , MOST middle class guys are considered fairly un-masculine in the big scheme of things  and would probably be considered either studious /nice guys  or both .

  I think it's why gyms have become really popular of late,  as a way for some of the office guys to shake off that less than masculine  image

i think we would need to nail down a definition of "middle class"
in thew usa middle class tends to mean what we think of as working class.
they are lazy labels imo

I think the minority sport angle is a red herring. Boxing is a minority sport.

I don't know about nowadays but when the SAS was formed, weren't they mostly ex-public school?

northanlite this is the UK  .. so here you don't tend to become middle class  ...in the US it's money based   yup

Oct 23, 2018 -- 4:50PM, i_agree_with_nick wrote:

I think the minority sport angle is a red herring. Boxing is a minority sport.I don't know about nowadays but when the SAS was formed, weren't they mostly ex-public school?

that is because the middle class are much more disciplined

you can't have aggressive out of control attitude men in the SAS or the Marines

but they have to be hand picked  ...99.9%  would fail regardless of background

chris eubank jr, must be fairly middle class with all cash his dad earned...?

sonny bill williams didnt need to take up boxing with money he earned from
rugby, but maybe the fighting spirit existed before the cash rolled in?

Boxing is probably the most brutal sport there is, the objective is to beat up your opponent
who will attempt to do the seem to us.

Children with some athletic ability(not all men have this..including meBlush) will almost always chose another sport if they can.

Very good point. Middle Class people generally just don't go into boxing. Just like working class people generally don't go into tennis.

You can't necessarily make something about class when it's more about opportunity (or lack of).

People with disadvantaged backgrounds will always have more to prove, yes.

But the determination to succeed is much more complex. It comes from within, and transposes classes. Admittedly, anyone that has it way too easy is at an obvious disadvantage.

I got to top 40 in my sport but it probably wans't in me ultimately.

Just to clarify, the discipline wasn't in me when I discovered other things at the vital age. And discipline, dedication and determination is everything when you have talent. Again, that transcends classes. We're all built the same.

donny, Chris Eubank Jr is crap, with all due respect, looks great on highlight and training reels he puts out, but in reality more style over substance, lost to the two only half decent boxers he's fought, lives in his own world and without a doubt is the most delusional boxer you'll ever come across.

doantwin2easy, determination does come from within, but it's easier to be determined when everything is laid on a plate for you, it's easier to have vision. Much harder when you're working class and many more barriers/hurdles ahead of you.

Boxers have my admiration, to literally fight you way to the top from nothing commands maximum respect. Even some boxers who apper to be bellends like Fury, it's a hard man's hard man, like most true Gypsies, they'll fight anyone gloves or not.

Scandanavian, I would probably say I had a middle class upbringing.no one really laid anything on a plate for me but my folks did take me around the country to tournaments, and buy me the equipment I needed etc to be fair.

I ran till it hurt and then ran some more. There were working class kids I used to train with that didnt have the heart to raise a step.

hes not top drawer, but hes "decent"  to me, and i cant think of a better one at moment.

maybe he would have been better if he had had to scrap like his dad?

maybe too,  hes just in family job, like some other sons and daughters of boxers, so
not a good example anyway..but perhaps they offer best chance of a rich kid becoming
a decent boxer anyway.

Fight Promoters love to push the boxers who don't read their contract and bring loads of fans to support them with ticket sales.

I also object to the word crap being used to describe Eubanks jnr

Christopher Livingstone Eubank (born 18 September 1989) is a British professional boxer. He held the IBO super-middleweight title from 2017 to 2018, and previously the WBA interim and British middleweight titles between 2015 and 2016. In February 2018, Eubank was ranked as the world's best active super-middleweight by BoxRec,[1] third by the Transnational Boxing Rankings Board,[2] and fourth by The Ring magazine.[3] He is the son of former two-weight world boxing champion Chris Eubank.
Professional record summary
hide
29 fights
27 wins
2 losses
By knockout
21
0
By decision
6
2 losses


Perhaps not quite up to his fathers record, but he has given it all. I like his uppercut.
His eye was damaged early in the fight against George Groves(who is pretty good himself) and it did effect him.

Eubank has proved he does not have enough power to be world class given his fighting style in the Spike O'Sullivan fight he hit him everything and had very little effect,definitely wouldn't call him obviously very dedicated and you need self belief to be able to fight anybody.

IBO title is practically worthless and he beat a conveyor belt of boxers who most would describe as average hand picked opponents, lost to the only two decent fighters he fought, George Groves beat him with one arm.

oh well...that is me shot down, no wonder I don't win anything on boxing