Afghanistan. All those years and deaths. How did that end up??

I've always wondered what goes on in the mind of these sheep when they are told they'll be fighting someone thousands of miles away. Do they really buy the story that they are liberating some country? Or that the threat is even real? I know the most favorite excuse is usually 'we don't decide where we fight, its the politicians that decide'. But at some point surely even these patriotic men would ask themselves, wtf are we doing fighting a war for a bunch of warmongers?

As for Afghanistan, if my history knowledge is good enough, UK and Russia have already received quite a good spanking on their soil, haven't they? The americans were smart that they took the rest of Europe with them, to soften the blow. But you are kidding yourself if you really think you can stay in Afghanistan and influence the region. Pakistan and Iran are never gonna let that happen. China will do anything to support these two countries to ensure US isn't comfortable in Afghanistan. The only country in the region that benefits is India, and even they aren't stupid enough to send their own men to die, despite the advantages they will gain by having a presence in Afghanistan under the excuse of helping the Americans.

Anyone here has a relative or friend serving or served in afghanistan?

Russia got a spanking there because America was supplying the rebels with weapons. Especially the Stinger missile which fetched so many Russian planes down.

People join the army because it's easier and more fun than going to work.
Politicians send them to their deaths so readily because life is cheap and they don't have to go themselves.

That's the ways of the world.

IN 1839 British troops based in India invaded Afghanistan beginning the first Anglo Afghan war subject to constant ambushes the entire force was annihilated
It is considered One of the worst disasters in British history.....16.500 British and Indian soldiers and civilians killed
IN 1878 British troops once again invade Afghanistan The war concludes with the treaty of Gandamak 10,000 British troops killed
IN 2001 US and British forces invade Afghanistan over 3,000 Coalition and private military troops killed

have they learned nothing?

Only one thing to learn Mick, just make sure they send someone else and not you.

To expect politicians to learn is stupid, because they do what suits them. It is quite possible that they achieve their purpose of going to war despite it looking like a disaster. By being there in afghanistan, they are at least keeping the regional powers busy, and that might well be their only objective.

My only issue is with the people that serve them, and if they know they are just pawns in someone's big game. And what goes through their minds when serving in regions like that. I hope none of the troops are so stupid to believe they are either fighting for their country's freedom or liberating afghanistan. God help them if they believe that crap.

Sep 3, 2018 -- 6:16AM, Dr Crippen wrote:

Only one thing to learn Mick, just make sure they send someone else and not you.

Politicians have a way to counter this too.

1. Throw labels like veteran, war hero etc at the men so the public thinks they are worth respecting. Give away awards, medals. In America, you are a war veteran even if you were forced to fight and the only alternative was jail. And as a veteran, you have to be respected. No matter what your performance on the battlefield was.

2. You aren't worth talking about the men in the field if you havent fought yourself. I've asked the same question(the one I've asked in my above posts) to quite a few americans as well, who happen to be in great numbers here in Munich. Usually if i press too much, the answer i get is 'You should be thankful to them that you live in a free country and can ask these questions', 'you wouldn't be able to ask this to a soldeir's face', 'you wouldn't survive a minute of what these people go through day after day' etc etc. Yet no one would tell me if they really bought all the stories of patriotism they were fed. Never got a straight answer.

You wouldn't want traveller alongside you. Typical peacenik whining. They eventually betray themselves.

The problem with afghanistan is the lack of any participation by the navy.  If it was down to them we would have finished it very quickly.

Mind you we shouldn't even be there on the ground.

although one must be careful about saying that - there were royal navy brigades in the boer war for starters and then there's the marines of course!!!!!!!!!!!

Navy? Aren't they supposed to fight in the waters?

*the seas

It's fools like you who do not understand the problems for the navy in a desert country.

ok. Two personal attacks now moisok.

I also asked a question by the way but I think you are not in the mood to answer. So i'll just take the insults and think i never asked.

It really annoys me when someone like you spouts off about serving in the military when you simply know nothing about it.

Your tiresome prating about subjects you clearly no nothing about and continue with reiterating your biased eu supporting trash from Germany has become boring

ok.

I asked a simple question though. You never bothered. You could have corrected my bias against the military. But you didn't bother. I understand though if you think I am a hopeless case.

I can live with bad spelling and grammar. But it p1sses me off when people don't finish a sentence with a full stop.

You join the armed forces, you sign a contract. You are trained to kill in various ways and accept you may be killed. You follow orders without question, that`s the gig, you do as you are told at every turn.

Nothing to do with the serving soldiers where they are or what they are doing, you have to accept and do the job whether it`s helping in a flood or on the battlefield.

Its not that I am not aware of how things work when you join the military. Of course you do as you are told. My question is, do these soldiers also then believe that, for instance, they are in Afghanistan to liberate the afghan people?

I just read a news item on a US service member being killed in afghanistan, by none other than an insider.

This is what the General who took command yesterday had to say on this:
The sacrifice of our service member, who volunteered for a mission to Afghanistan to protect his country, is a tragic loss for all who knew and all who will now never know him,

First of all, this guy 'volunteered' to go to afghanistan. They are either paying top dollars or he is one hell of a patriot who still hasn't figured out that if they didn't get afg in 17 years, they won't get it with his voluntary help either. He just walked into his death but lets call it sacrifice.

Its a tragic loss for all he knew. I can under understand that.

and all who will never know him. So basically its a tragic loss for me as well.

Our duty now is to honor him, care for his family and continue our mission. As i mentioned above as well, we are brainwashed to honor anyone who helps the big guys fight their wars.

SO my question was, do the soldiers on the ground actually believe all these statements? If you were part of the 400 that were just sent to aghanistan, and one of your fellow soldier died, and you read that statement about him, knowing fully well it could easily be you tomorrow, would you buy all that crap about defending your country in a far away land? I know I am anti military, but I genuinely want to know the mindset of the guy on the field(without signing up myself).

And its ok if you don't know. That's why I asked in my first post if any of you had a relative or someone serving in afghanistan, hoping someone could tell me their sentiments towards this war.

Men join front line regiments because they want to fight.  When the shooting started in Afghan the recruitment figures shot up on the back of videos showing soldiers in combat.  Before that no one seemed interested in joining a humanitarian mission.

I can't believe that no one doesn't know what they're getting into.

The Afghan  war fought by the American and British soldiers is a good and just and noble war

Do I think that any young person should be prepared to sign up to the British army now with the prospect of having to fight in any war ?
No they would be mad to do so , because of the nature of their own countrymen and people like detraveller , look around

I had a neighbour who did 2 tours of Afghan. I asked him about the alleged terrorist training camps there. (The main reason we went according to Gordon Brown - 'to keep the UK safe..')

He saw no such camps. I asked him what he thought he was fighting for and the standard, understandable reply came back: 'for the blokes either side of me'. 'We do what we're trained to do which is fight'.

Soldiers don't do politics. They join up to fight. They train to fight. They do what they're told which is to fight.

It was a foolish conflict that had zero chance of success. In fact, I've no idea what success would look like over there anyway. It was most probably a plan to establish a permanent American military base in case Iran kicks off. Afghan and Iraq sit either side of Iran, the meat in the sandwich.

The Taliban were in control of Afghanistan , that was good enough reason to destroy that evil regime

Bin laden was believed to be there , when they didn’t cooperate that was another good enough reason

We didn't find Bin laden there. We didn't overthrow the regime (they just pushed back until we left).

That’s correct , I didn’t say it was a total success
However bin Baden is dead and the Taliban are out of the cities and in the mountains were they belong
Until they fade away or are destroyed there , good

It’s would be good if every part of that country was under British rule , good for them and the world until they come into the 21st century

If you want to invade, make a 50 yr commitment to colonise it from top to bottom. That needs the UK to be on a war footing and it may well need conscription and 500k boots on the ground.

We had no will to do it. So what was the point? Either do it properly or not at all.

Bin Laden is dead , it is not up to us to civilise these nations they are going to have to do a little work themselves

Agreed but they won't. It's their culture that prevents them from developing. See Africa.

As for BL - his death was heralded by Obama etc as a turning point. What happened (which was obvious) was that 1000 Bin Ladens came forward.

That’s their responsibility not ours

Now I’m sorry we can’t just treat them like children , they are going to have to take responsibility for the state of their own country
Just like everyone else

So leave them to it in the first place. My neighbour's buddy got a bullet in the neck and is parlaysed for life. Worth it??

I’ve already said , no young person should think about going to war for Britain , not now
not for this country or the people who live in it
Look around
Do whatever is best for yourself

However as I also said , the afghan war was a just and good and noble war

I agree with Injera. Leave them to it, but more importantly, leave them where they are.

However as I also said , the afghan war was a just and good and noble war

What did you do in the war Daddy?

Are we sending in the First Foot and Mouth Regiment?

They sorted it out in Carry On Up the Khyber.

"BOMBSHELL Documents expose the secret lie that started the Afghan war" a video that will tell you all you need to know

The wars in Afghanistan are proxy wars.
The 19th century wars were a conflict between the Russian empire and the British empire, Afghanistan being the buffer between Russia and British controlled India.

The 1980s invasion by Russia was Cold war strategy, a Russian push South hoping to establish bases on the eastern med and Indian ocean, resisted by the USA.

In the 21st century Afghanistan hosted conflict by proxy between the West and Iran. The West maintaining interest in the Middle East because of oil reserves.

Interestingly, Russia seems to be gaining its long-coveted naval base in the eastern Med through winning the Syrian civil war for Assad. The west missed a trick there or so it would seem by backing the wrong horse.